kpturner Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 Thanks to those who responded to my posts with some reasoned debate. For what it's worth, I was pursuing the arguments I put forward after somebody tried the same tactic against me during a recent discussion. My intention isn't to be overly negative about Saints and I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that I believe the potentially negative points about the club. Moreover, my intention was to make us realise that we have to avoid becoming over complacent about our status and the appeal we may hold for potential managers. Depending on what sort of man Tisdale, or any other manager is, they may see the glass half full or glass half empty version of Saints. You could argue that they're not the right man if they choose to turn down an approach for the sorts of reasons I suggested. However, my main aim is that we shouldn't necessarily be surprised if we are turned down by some of the managers being suggested. There are always two sides to every story etc. For what it's worth though, I don't want Wotte here long term and I hope that a new appointment is one that brings a united fan base.I am sure many of the managers on that list would co ck a snoop at Saints, but your post seemed to me to be specifically about Tisdale and whether he would prefer Exeter or Saints. Personally, knowing bugger all about his abilities as a manager other than he has done well with the Grecians and wears cravats, I wouldn't be bothered if he did turn us down. IMHO he would jump at it though.
hypochondriac Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 I think we have a good chance of getting Dowie. I would prefer someone else though
sotonjoe Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 I am sure many of the managers on that list would co ck a snoop at Saints, but your post seemed to me to be specifically about Tisdale and whether he would prefer Exeter or Saints. Personally, knowing bugger all about his abilities as a manager other than he has done well with the Grecians and wears cravats, I wouldn't be bothered if he did turn us down. IMHO he would jump at it though. **** a snoop!?!?!?!
hamster Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 I believe that we NEED a manager who loves a fight. He has to make up at least 10 points more than the worst FOUR clubs in the division! The sort of person we need is one who is not here to make a nmae for himself, he needs to want more than that. It simply MUST be someone who wants to come along for a very exciting ride. I believe this can be achieved over the next 5-6 tears (and me have to suffer another relegation season to get it spot on. Who would want that job if the new board recomend that we break the bank and pull out all the stops to get him. Gordon Strachan fits this CV perfectly imho but he will eventually get a 'too good to refuse' offer from Man U one day. My dream manager if money were no option would be someone like Graham Moyes but who else is there out there of his calibre? I haven't heard a name yet that really ticks all of those boxes (sorry, I hate that term). We'll have to settle for Gordon for now then.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 I believe that we NEED a manager who loves a fight. He has to make up at least 10 points more than the worst FOUR clubs in the division! The sort of person we need is one who is not here to make a nmae for himself, he needs to want more than that. It simply MUST be someone who wants to come along for a very exciting ride. I believe this can be achieved over the next 5-6 tears (and me have to suffer another relegation season to get it spot on. Who would want that job if the new board recomend that we break the bank and pull out all the stops to get him. Gordon Strachan fits this CV perfectly imho but he will eventually get a 'too good to refuse' offer from Man U one day. My dream manager if money were no option would be someone like Graham Moyes but who else is there out there of his calibre? I haven't heard a name yet that really ticks all of those boxes (sorry, I hate that term). We'll have to settle for Gordon for now then. I don't think Gordy is the manager he was with us. This season he couldn't manage the richest club in Scotland to a league title against their only serious but potless rivals and some of his press conferences bordered on the bizarre. I think Strachan's best day's like Burley's are behind him and Strachan peaked with us whereas Burley peaked with Ipswich. Personally, I would go with Ince. Has experience of success and survival in the lower leagues and would have the motivation to prove himself again and with a club with excellent facilities to quietly rebuild his reputation and our prospects. I don't think anyone ticks all the boxes but I am fairly sure Ince could kick them all.
Professor Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 Speculation is entertaining but as we don't know who will appoint the manager, maybe we should be worrying about who will be Chairman and whether it will be anyone with any football experience or connections.
hamster Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 I don't think Gordy is the manager he was with us. This season he couldn't manage the richest club in Scotland to a league title against their only serious but potless rivals and some of his press conferences bordered on the bizarre. I think Strachan's best day's like Burley's are behind him and Strachan peaked with us whereas Burley peaked with Ipswich. Personally, I would go with Ince. Has experience of success and survival in the lower leagues and would have the motivation to prove himself again and with a club with excellent facilities to quietly rebuild his reputation and our prospects. I don't think anyone ticks all the boxes but I am fairly sure Ince could kick them all. i like that one. I feel that although not his fault, he did let the pressure get to him. Sadly we need someone who will turn the critics attention into a positive force and stick two fingers up to them on the pitch. Although we fans do it, the new Gaffer has to get them to think one game at a time and they have a big enough mountain to climb as it is with the -10 points. Game by game, kick by kick they have to focus on that ball and nothing else. The Blackburn players minds were more on what the papers were saying (fed by the club), they forgot how to play as a team. I still say Gordon.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 Speculation is entertaining but as we don't know who will appoint the manager, maybe we should be worrying about who will be Chairman and whether it will be anyone with any football experience or connections. I agree Prof but I take this as a diversion from worrying about the point you raise. Still if Crouch is going to be on the board what is there to worry about? As ex-chairman and directors go, I wish he would.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 i like that one. I feel that although not his fault, he did let the pressure get to him. Sadly we need someone who will turn the critics attention into a positive force and stick two fingers up to them on the pitch. Although we fans do it, the new Gaffer has to get them to think one game at a time and they have a big enough mountain to climb as it is with the -10 points. Game by game, kick by kick they have to focus on that ball and nothing else. The Blackburn players minds were more on what the papers were saying (fed by the club), they forgot how to play as a team. I still say Gordon. Fair enough but Gordon looks to me that he is busy searching for a plot. At least with Ince he has had success with Macclesfield (a real Houdini job) and MK Dons (promotion). He will be fired up and want to prove himself and where better in a team in the 3rd division but with Premiership facilities (except the crowd). Ince made a mistake going to Blackburn when he did and chances are he could have taken MK Dons into the CCC this past season.
hamster Posted 8 June, 2009 Posted 8 June, 2009 Fair enough but Gordon looks to me that he is busy searching for a plot. At least with Ince he has had success with Macclesfield (a real Houdini job) and MK Dons (promotion). He will be fired up and want to prove himself and where better in a team in the 3rd division but with Premiership facilities (except the crowd). Ince made a mistake going to Blackburn when he did and chances are he could have taken MK Dons into the CCC this past season. That's the key. We need someone who has proven themselves at the top. Remember i am only talking 'ideal world' here. I don't expect it to actually happen. At Celtic, I think he did the job to the letter, he made them number one in Scotland, their directors will never be able to finance a serious Champions League campaign. Celtic (and rangers for that matter) must surely accept that Scottish football just does not count except for the 6 poiints that the big guns whip off of them most years. In football terms Southampton Football Club is potentially a bigger club. With us he had a taste of what he as a manager was capable of. He will be hungry for it I reckon.
Saint 76er Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 There is a post on 606 with a link to the "Coventry Telegraph" which claims that Dowie is expected to get it. That paper also quotes it's former chief executive (he now does that job at Burnley) as saying that he believes Dowie would have taken them to the premiership, but that he was caught up in internal problems (guess all clubs have them, not just us) and wasn't given enough support. Interestingly this guy says Coventry have problems as they do not own their stadium complex and miss out on a heap of revenue streams as a result. Lesson for us there I think...
bolo Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 I don't think it was gung-ho at all - it was just a prime example of someone who talks a good game but is absolutely f u c king rubbish at motivating and coaching when it comes down to it. His team had no idea what formations they were playing and had absolutely no patterning of play. They ran around alot, but they had no idea when they went out onto the pitch how to construct an attacking move and defend. In fact, they were one of the most toothless teams i have ever seen in the Premier League... Put that together with his staggering lack of charisma (he made SG Eriksson look like a psychopath) and you get a very bad manager. Shearer is very good at giving little soundbites and stating the obvious, but I doubt very much he is any good at coaching given the evidence of his 8 (most very winnable) games in charge. Kinnear, an average manager BUT a motivator, probably would have kept them up.... a good lower league manager would have gained more respect there without a doubt once the players realised that Shearer couldn't cut it. The above also goes to Ince... although he is even more stupid and grossly inarticulate. Billy big ****** when he played, but when it comes down to it, just a gob sh i t e. So please, none of those above. Tisdale, Boothroyd, Simpson or Dowie would be solid bets though. If I was to dream, Coppell, WGS or Metsu. Geez, you still fantasizing about Metsu!!!
thorpie the sinner Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 I am sorry to say it, but I still fancy KK! i think there are exciting times ahead and KK would cap it off for me!! Recreate the Fulham experience!
NickG Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 KK went to Fulham when they were one of the first (the first?) club to have a reach benefactor and knew they were going places. everyone seems to be owned by a billionaire these days!
thorpie the sinner Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 KK went to Fulham when they were one of the first (the first?) club to have a reach benefactor and knew they were going places. everyone seems to be owned by a billionaire these days! maybe this is a new start for us though! If our owner is worth several hundred million as tony purported and Matt recommends players etc, even being run frugally, it could be the start of something exciting!! Maybe KK could buy into that!!
Dicko Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 If Boothroyd and Cotterill are considered candidates, I'm very surprised nobody seems to mention Alan Pardew as a possibility
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 If Boothroyd and Cotterill are considered candidates, I'm very surprised nobody seems to mention Alan Pardew as a possibility In what capacity? Selling the Echo out of the back of a Transit, or organising a soccer school in the car park for the kidz on matchdays with KK?
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 Darren ferguson for me I agree but considering his success with the Posh it's going to take a lot of money to come back down and help us. Given his resource pool for help and advice as well as his own talent he is definitely destined for the top but at the moment a very unrealistic option.
70's Mike Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 Alan Knill from Bury for me, knows the lower leagues , plays good football and ex saint, all be it for a short time
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 Alan Knill from Bury for me' date=' knows the lower leagues , plays good football and ex saint, all be it for a short time[/quote'] Stop it now this is not a competition for the most obscure choice. The contents of one of those buckets would probably get him down here and he could help style Wotte's hair.
70's Mike Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 Stop it now this is not a competition for the most obscure choice. The contents of one of those buckets would probably get him down here and he could help style Wotte's hair. just trying to be pratical , imo we will not have a large chunk of money to throw at a manager and will need to build carefully many of those mentioned are used to cash , even your man Ince had a few bob to spend at MK Dons
Dicko Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 In what capacity? Selling the Echo out of the back of a Transit, or organising a soccer school in the car park for the kidz on matchdays with KK? His track record in management is better than both Boothroyd or Cotterill. He got Reading promoted from League 1, then got West Ham promoted from the Championship. He also took West Ham to within seconds of beating Liverpool in the FA Cup final
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 His track record in management is better than both Boothroyd or Cotterill. He got Reading promoted from League 1, then got West Ham promoted from the Championship. He also took West Ham to within seconds of beating Liverpool in the FA Cup final He also didn't know when he was flogging a dead horse at Charlton.
SaintRobbie Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 Ince for me too, but rumours on this board are that MLT doesnt get on with him ... if you believe them that is.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 Ince for me too, but rumours on this board are that MLT doesnt get on with him ... if you believe them that is. If those rumours were true it wouldn't surprise me. They were probably in the England squad at the same time and in terms of work rate you couldn't get two different players. Shouldn' be about personalities anyway it should be based on the ability to do the job otherwise Brian Clough would never have got a job or Neil Warnock for that matter!
SaintRobbie Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 If those rumours were true it wouldn't surprise me. They were probably in the England squad at the same time and in terms of work rate you couldn't get two different players. Shouldn' be about personalities anyway it should be based on the ability to do the job otherwise Brian Clough would never have got a job or Neil Warnock for that matter! Agreed - but nice to have a set up that has ALL pulling in the same direction for a change.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 Agreed - but nice to have a set up that has ALL pulling in the same direction for a change. Absolutely no argument from me but if the rumours regarding Crouch are true it seems the ship of unity has already sailed so f it, just get the best man for the job and the more single minded and arrogant the better. Depends on who we we can afford of course and clearly we don't very much at the moment. Anybody got Bury's phone number? At least we have a manager (unlike Newcastle) assuming he had a contract beyond the end of the season.
Badvoc Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 In my opinion, IF he wants it Shearer has got it. Keep your eye on the national press in the coming week or so because IMHO this story will grow. And, if AS decides to come back this way we should be grateful too. We are a 3rd Div outfit now so need to recruit accordingly. I believe IF AS comes here as his first proper foray into full-time management he will be a phenomenon for us. With a 5 year financial plan to help us move up the leagues, along with a potentially astounding manager at the helm, St Marys will be rocking again; and soon.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 June, 2009 Posted 9 June, 2009 In my opinion, IF he wants it Shearer has got it. Keep your eye on the national press in the coming week or so because IMHO this story will grow. And, if AS decides to come back this way we should be grateful too. We are a 3rd Div outfit now so need to recruit accordingly. I believe IF AS comes here as his first proper foray into full-time management he will be a phenomenon for us. With a 5 year financial plan to help us move up the leagues, along with a potentially astounding manager at the helm, St Marys will be rocking again; and soon. TV Pundits don't make good managers and we wait to find out if they make good chairmen so why double the risk? I would prefer we stuck with Wotte than employ Shearer.
Chez Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 Paul Tisdale, Dave Penney.... Like Grayson... maybe Sean O'Driscoll? I'd take O'Driscoll like a shot. How about Mike Newell. He turned Grimsby round and perhasp he'd bring Ryan Bennett with him
Chez Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 Ince for me too, but rumours on this board are that MLT doesnt get on with him ... if you believe them that is. Quinn and Keane managed to bury the hatchet so...
Give it to Ron Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 TV Pundits don't make good managers and we wait to find out if they make good chairmen so why double the risk? I would prefer we stuck with Wotte than employ Shearer. So Martin O'Neill who did a great job as a pundit for the BBC in 2006 isn't a good manager? I thought Niall Quinn did a good job at Sunderland considering where they were when he took over...sometimes Nineteen you do not do yourself any favours do you.
SFC Forever Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 KK went to Fulham when they were one of the first (the first?) club to have a reach benefactor and knew they were going places. everyone seems to be owned by a billionaire these days! Except us
SFC Forever Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 I think you have just summed up why I would be OK with Wotte getting a season. I think he would do well enough to keep us up and stabalise us for 1 season. Brining in someone like Tisdale then would give him and us a decent spring board to go off. Bring in Tisdale now and do bad and the new lot will just carry on the merry go round of managers that Lowe started, If we brought Tisdale in could wotte not stick around as his assistant or temporary DOF. He knows the players and would be able to give his opinion on what is needed.
CB Fry Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 So Martin O'Neill who did a great job as a pundit for the BBC in 2006 isn't a good manager? I thought Niall Quinn did a good job at Sunderland considering where they were when he took over...sometimes Nineteen you do not do yourself any favours do you. Pretty sure Martin O'Neill had done a teeny bit of football management before he did the World Cup gig for the BBC in 2006.
Give it to Ron Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 Pretty sure Martin O'Neill had done a teeny bit of football management before he did the World Cup gig for the BBC in 2006. So did that make him a bad manager before or after because according to 19C pundits dont make good managers? If he was abad manager before why did they choose him...he hasn't done bad since 2006.
saintjay77 Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 If we brought Tisdale in could wotte not stick around as his assistant or temporary DOF. He knows the players and would be able to give his opinion on what is needed. Dont see why that wouldnt be a good option. Im all for anyone getting the job as long as they get the support from above. I just think next season could be a bit of a poisened challice with the -10 points and it would be a shame if say Tisdale came in with loads of potential only to be shafted at the 1st sign of a relegation scrap. Maybe I would just be playing safe but I would rather have someone that is more expendable next season. I only said before that Wotte would keep the job if he did exeptionally well and put us up near the automatic places. To be honest I think if Wotte did get the job he would do no better than mid table but then that would at least give the new manager a decent platform to go from rather than full rebuild on -10.
CB Fry Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 So did that make him a bad manager before or after because according to 19C pundits dont make good managers? If he was abad manager before why did they choose him...he hasn't done bad since 2006. You are making the most p*ss weak point I think I have yet seen on this internet forum. Martin O'Neill was and is an excellent football manager. Unless you are advocating Alan Hansen as our next manager I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 So did that make him a bad manager before or after because according to 19C pundits dont make good managers? If he was abad manager before why did they choose him...he hasn't done bad since 2006. Ron I'm on about pundits who were employed on long term contracts. People like Shearer, MLT, Hansen, Townsend, Thompson, Merson etc etc etc. Career pundits not guest pundits for one off games and tournaments - that would wipe out just about most managers in the bleeding country.
Give it to Ron Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 You are making the most p*ss weak point I think I have yet seen on this internet forum. Martin O'Neill was and is an excellent football manager. Unless you are advocating Alan Hansen as our next manager I have no idea what point you are trying to make. The point I am making is that football pundits can make decent managers.... fck me how difficult was that to reason out pretty simples really and read it again and see where I was saying MON wasn't a good manager that was the fcking point jeesh!
Give it to Ron Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 Ron I'm on about pundits who were employed on long term contracts. People like Shearer, MLT, Hansen, Townsend, Thompson, Merson etc etc etc. Career pundits not guest pundits for one off games and tournaments - that would wipe out just about most managers in the bleeding country. David Pleat, Ron Atkinson ( although blotted his copybook) are 2 more examples of decent managers though 19...guess we will have to agree to diagree on this.
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 Shearer's complete lack of grasp of defensive play led to Newcastle getting relegated, it was so gong-ho that it was unbelievable.He needs to learn the trade in the conference or something,as far as I can remember strikers turned managers have a woeful record when they are directly parachuted into the top flight.Is any of the top managers now a former striker? I know he's long gone - but Cloughwas a very gifted striker and one of the very best managers ever produced by this country!!
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 Still think KK is the shout to get the fans going.... still has something in the tank and would be a buzz to have him back. Perhaps with a younger guy under him. See how he goes then move upstairs as director of football after a couple of seasons. The right appointment is imperative to regenerate the atmosphere at the ground and KK would achieve that. The others could do a job yes, but do they have the passion required to get the ball rolling????
CB Fry Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 The point I am making is that football pundits can make decent managers.... fck me how difficult was that to reason out pretty simples really and read it again and see where I was saying MON wasn't a good manager that was the fcking point jeesh! I'm still waiting for a pundit that has made a decent manager. O'Neill, Atkinson, Pleat etc etc are managers doing punditry. So see if you can name a pundit who has made a career of being a manager, there must be one somewhere.
chocco boxo Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 Peter Reid was in Southampton today, he had been on The Queen Victoria but was he not behind some deal to buy Everton? Ex Saint but now has Thai's in other places!
SFC Forever Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 There is always a first time. MLT has saved this club on numerous occasions with a flash of brilliance. I really don't care who is in the boardroom just as long as they give us a manager who can do exactly that. We are going to find it tough going this time around as we have little time in which to bolster our lightweight squad. We desperately need some muscle and speed could help as well. Tisdale or O'Driscoll could do a job for us as could Simpson. Ince I feel is to big and stroppy and could cause more problems with his do as you are told or else attitude. He has tasted the big time and as such I feel he is way out of our league.
um pahars Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 I'm still waiting for a pundit that has made a decent manager. O'Neill, Atkinson, Pleat etc etc are managers doing punditry. So see if you can name a pundit who has made a career of being a manager, there must be one somewhere. But surely if you're a pundit in the first place and have got a long term TV contract, then you're hardly likely to then be off to become a manager as that's not your career choice.
CB Fry Posted 10 June, 2009 Posted 10 June, 2009 But surely if you're a pundit in the first place and have got a long term TV contract, then you're hardly likely to then be off to become a manager as that's not your career choice. ....which is why Matthew Le Tissier should not be anywhere near the Saints manager's chair. Which is the point I'm making.
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