Chap in the Chapel Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 THAT is the key to the whole scenario ........and who was it that masterminded St Mary's after failing to land Stoneham ???? I see where you're going, but the City Council offered the club the land on which St Mary's is now built. Lowe was groping in the dark after Stoneham fell through until someone offered him a candle. Saying he 'masterminded' St Mary's is a bit inaccurate - he pushed it through but to be a mastermind you've got to think of something first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 THAT is the key to the whole scenario ........No its not!! - geez. I tell you what, let's pull it down forget the whole sorry episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 THAT is the key to the whole scenario ........and who was it that masterminded St Mary's after failing to land Stoneham ???? Well that depends - If making a positive statment about St Marys its all down the council bailing lowe out as many of the anti Lowes will obviously admit If its saying something negative about SMS then logically its all down to Lowe.... ...a nd round ,...and round... we go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 But that isn't what he said. The bloke who bought Pompey specifically said he wanted growth potential, not a plaything. That's out of the horses mouth. Yes, but growth potential within the parameters of the Prem, i.e. ALREADY at a level that he's prepared to justify to his billionaire mates. I'm kinda hoping he gets into a row with a wealthier one who decides to put him in his place by taking over Saints and making them better, in a Simpsons Little League baseball-type way. Bags us not having Mr Burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 The arab guy wants a Prem team - its as simple as that really. Storrie (sic) did a very good selling job IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 So let me get this right. An Arab billionnaire is buying a club with no history, that has the worst ground in the Premiere League, in an awful city with no room to expand because this plaything brings him kudos with the only people who matter to him - other Arab billionnaires. If you think Arabs are that stupid with their money, think again. Yes, you hit the nail right on the head. The stuff about buying because of potential growth is probably either some bull**** sold to him by Gaydamak, or go-between agents, or else it is guff spouted by the new owners to give the fans orgasms. I doubt whether the new owner has any particular real local knowledge of the dump, apart from a smidgeon of knowledge of its Naval connections and that they won the last FA Cup, had a manager well known in the game and one or two names in the squad that would have been well known in World football circles because they used to play, or still play for England. He probably knows as much about Portsmouth as a place as I do about Dubai. As others have astutely realised, he is buying a Premiership Football Club just for kudos amongst his friends and business associates. Exactly the same reason that Lowe got involved in Saints. Whenever there is a report in the World's media, it will list him as owner of Portsmouth, Premier league football club. He will soon find out that growth potential will be limited, but provided that they stay in the top flight, he couldn't care a toss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Bare in mind, this guy is a property developer......mayhap he has plans for Flatten park!!!............you never know;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 So let me get this right. An Arab billionnaire is buying a club with no history, that has the worst ground in the Premiere League, in an awful city with no room to expand because this plaything brings him kudos with the only people who matter to him - other Arab billionnaires. If you think Arabs are that stupid with their money, think again. He probably doesn't know or care about their history/ground/city he just knows they are in the EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 29 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 May, 2009 You missed my point entirely. He is buying it because it is a PL club that happened to be for sale and its probably the cheapest opportunity he is going to get. If you are asking me whether I think he spent weeks examining and comparing the planning aspirations (past present and future) of Portsmouth (as opposed to, say, Southampton) then IMHO that is complete nonsense.....but then who really knows. Your OP was all about implying that people would rather invest in Poopey FC than SFC because of the wonderfully forward thinking Portsmouth planners and the woefully backward thinking Southampton planners - when in actual fact he probably did not consider investing in SFC because they are way below the radar of anyone outside of this country, and that is because while this guy has been pondering the purchase of a football club SFC were either CCC pond life or L1 ameoba. I didn't miss your point, I just disagree with your idea that Arab billionnaires are playboys only looking for a premiere league toy that gives them instant world attention. They are far more hard-nosed than that. I think you are wrong if you think they do not consider other factors. You are thinking as a football fan, which these guys are not. They are business people, and if he says it was growth potential he wanted, you can bet that was what he considered. Ok, so maybe he didn't look in depth at the whole of Portsmouth, but that is again missing my point - Portsmouth appears very much to be on the up while Southampton sadly is treading water while its best opportunities seem to be being compromised. And Arab buyers no doubt can buy informed British advice pretty easily. All they need is an impression. Someone else has firmly blamed ABP for the city's difficulties, and they may well be right about that, but if you are an Arab investor, who cares whether it's APB or the City Planners? It is still "Southampton". Maybe we don't push our plans firmly enough, maybe we just cave in at the very thought of APB opposition, who knows? Dubai were allegedly sniffing around us a while ago, but disappeared again. They must have known we were CCC then, maybe it was no more than our name was on a list, but why bother even put us on a list if Premiere status was absolutely crucial? I do agree however that League 1 would definately be off the radar for someone like him. A further relegation has completely blown it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 29 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 May, 2009 You missed my point entirely. He is buying it because it is a PL club that happened to be for sale and its probably the cheapest opportunity he is going to get. If you are asking me whether I think he spent weeks examining and comparing the planning aspirations (past present and future) of Portsmouth (as opposed to, say, Southampton) then IMHO that is complete nonsense.....but then who really knows. Your OP was all about implying that people would rather invest in Poopey FC than SFC because of the wonderfully forward thinking Portsmouth planners and the woefully backward thinking Southampton planners - when in actual fact he probably did not consider investing in SFC because they are way below the radar of anyone outside of this country, and that is because while this guy has been pondering the purchase of a football club SFC were either CCC pond life or L1 ameoba. I didn't miss your point, I just disagree with your idea that Arab billionnaires are playboys only looking for a premiere league toy that gives them instant world attention. They are far more hard-nosed than that. I think you are wrong if you think they do not consider other factors. You are thinking as a football fan, which these guys are not. They are business people, and if he says it was growth potential he wanted, you can bet that was what he considered. Ok, so maybe he didn't look in depth at the whole of Portsmouth, but that is again missing my point - Portsmouth appears very much to be on the up while Southampton sadly is treading water while its best opportunities seem to be being compromised. And Arab buyers no doubt can buy informed British advice pretty easily. All they need is an impression. Someone else has firmly blamed ABP for the city's difficulties, and they may well be right about that, but if you are an Arab investor, who cares whether it's APB or the City Planners? It is still "Southampton". Maybe we don't push our plans firmly enough, maybe we just cave in at the very thought of APB opposition, who knows? Dubai were allegedly sniffing around us a while ago, but disappeared again. They must have known we were CCC then, maybe it was no more than our name was on a list, but why bother even put us on a list if Premiere status was absolutely crucial? I do agree however that League 1 would definately be off the radar for someone like him. A further relegation has completely blown it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 I didn't miss your point, I just disagree with your idea that Arab billionnaires are playboys only looking for a premiere league toy that gives them instant world attention. So if what you say is true, then why do the arabs own race horses, studs, stables, etc? It's exactly the same reason why they are buying football clubs, World renowned hotels, huge gin palace yachts, etc. It's all down to prestige, ego and recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 And..............having too much money. They'll never spend all that black gold, never in a million years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 29 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 May, 2009 So if what you say is true, then why do the arabs own race horses, studs, stables, etc? It's exactly the same reason why they are buying football clubs, World renowned hotels, huge gin palace yachts, etc. It's all down to prestige, ego and recognition. They know that oil money needs to be reinvested in alternative businesses spread throughout the world. They practically control the whole of the horse racing industry now, it isn't just ego. Owning the great hotels loses them money does it, or are they making a profit? I hadn't appreciated that Pompey FC were such a prestigious jewel for their crown. I wouldn't judge Arab investors using the motivations of an Abramovic as a yardstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 We got relegated from the Prem due to mismanagement. We couldn't get back up due to mismanagement. We invested in youth and rejected experience due to idiots being in charge. SLH folded due to mismanagement and idiots being in charge. We appointed an idiot as administrator and he doesn't know what to do. Any surprise that the only people interested in buying the carcass are consortia who can just about squeeze a few million together if they raid their piggy banks? Even if they do find a low rent group prepared to give it a go, watch the arguments ensue about '"I put in more than your share" as we speed towards League 2. You make a really good point about the city of Southampton suffering from years of political in-fighting and some questionable planning decisions...but buying SFC has nothing to do with that...we are simply not an attractive enough business proposition...and there are plenty of alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 There are plenty who would lie to own us - but most dont have the cash and those that do dont want to lose it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 The Arab wants a plaything but also wants the fans of that plaything to adore him so he buys a Prem club with a rundown stadium,builds them a new one and becomes a hero. We already have a stadium but a **** football team in a **** league so there is too much work to do to become worshipped by the fans. it has nothing to do with the city but probably more to do with the planning restrictions imposed by the ****wits who run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 A deal will be done after they finish trying to shaft each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 There is only one reason why pompey have got a billionare Arab and that's because the Prem gives him instant worldwide exposure, any other reason is not at all important. Agree about Southampton Council being a joke though, they keep banging on about creating a "Wow" factor when the only "wow" factor is it is unbelievable they cannot see the city already has it in the cruise liners. The problem is because of their comically bad town planning you have some of the most spectacular ships in the World hidden behind grain silos, old derelict buildings and car parks - the city council have ****ed up the city's main asset - the waterfront. Agree with all of that. Southampton has fantastic advantages - extensive waterfront, city walls, cruise ships, great parks - which are all somehow overshadowed by dog poor new buildings and roads which just wouldnt be allowed in most other cities. When I come back to Southampton parts of it remind me of Belfast in the 1970s - and thats going some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Not 35 years ago but from memory a feasibility study was carried out on that site for Saints, maybe one of our 'older'(more informed) posters could confirm Wasn't it the area where Toys R Us now is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edsaint Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Before we jump to conclusions take a note that the Pompey deal may not yet be what is seems: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/may/29/digger-falcon-portsmouth-west-ham The supposed purchaser has previous for generating PR for himself and not a lot else. Note that they have only signed a memorandum of understanding but it has been treated as a done deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Before we jump to conclusions take a note that the Pompey deal may not yet be what is seems: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/may/29/digger-falcon-portsmouth-west-ham The supposed purchaser has previous for generating PR for himself and not a lot else. Note that they have only signed a memorandum of understanding but it has been treated as a done deal. Indeed, it's not finished yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Wasn't it the area where Toys R Us now is? Yes..........the old Lido. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Yes..........the old Lido. those were the days, no internet just life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 They know that oil money needs to be reinvested in alternative businesses spread throughout the world. They practically control the whole of the horse racing industry now, it isn't just ego. Owning the great hotels loses them money does it, or are they making a profit? I hadn't appreciated that Pompey FC were such a prestigious jewel for their crown. I wouldn't judge Arab investors using the motivations of an Abramovic as a yardstick. They own the horse racing interests because that, football and motor racing are all ways that they can showcase their wealth by being in the winners enclosure, being in the directors' boxes, entertaining the other high-power business people who inhabit those environments. They own the prestige hotels to gain prestige, but also to make money from the wealthy people who stay there. They have mega revenue from their oil and they need to invest as much of that income into other fields in readiness for when oil either runs out or is replaced by greener fuels less harmful to the planet. But blowing the cash on sporting activites is purely down to egotistical reasons, not for financial gain. As others say, Pompey is merely a target because it is in the Premiership, no other reason. The bigger clubs have already been bought and cannot be picked up as cheaply as Pompey. We would even now be the better buy from the perspective of stadium, potential and price, but it would require two or three years to get back to the Premiership, which in itself is suggestive that the current status of the two clubs is relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 those were the days' date=' no internet just life[/quote'] Thats right, before we were made conscious of swimming in other peoples p1$$ and dirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Thats right, before we were made conscious of swimming in other peoples p1$$ and dirt but blo*dy good laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Only went there a couple of times..was about 5ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Only went there a couple of times..was about 5ishToo bloody cold. Indoors up the road for me - red eyes from the chlorine before you got out of the changing rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey who said he was buying them because they had much better scope for growth, and that he’d been looking around for a club for quite some time. He apparently was prepared to buy Newcastle for 200m some time ago but Ashley wanted 400m. This begs the question, why were Saints not on his horizon. Last year with the right buyer we were a season away from the Premiere League, and he was looking to buy a club then. He’d have got us for 50m tops, probably a lot less. And we have a stadium, not a word you could use to describe Fratton Park. So why pay quite a sizeable sum for Portsmouth now when he could have got us for much, much less, still liquid, a year ago? 1) We were CCC not Prem – but he could have pretty well bought promotion 2) We weren’t high profile enough – Pompey can’t really be described as high profile, and we had a 30 year recent history of top division football Turning back to growth potential, what have Pompey got that we haven’t? Is our stadium in the wrong place? – Probably. Far from good transport links, and stuck in a dead-looking area with no scope for quality non-industrial development. Is Portsmouth a more attractive place than Southampton? – Definitely yes. Up to say 10 years ago I’d always have said Southampton over Pompey, but not any longer. Portsmouth has had a vision for the development of the harbour area far beyond what our planners have managed to come up with for Southampton. They built a forward-looking Spinnaker Tower, placed to attract attention as part of an integrated harbour development, marina and shopping. We on the other hand can’t seem to get past a tin-foil mock up of a spitfire stuck on the end of a jetty separated from just about everything, the closest shopping being West Quay with it’s special view over roads, surface car parks and tin boxes. If you are lucky you might be able to see a cruise liner funnel. Portsmouth as a city attracts far more attention than Southampton, which has no focus, no integrated development plan, and has pretty much thrown away the chance it once had to come up with a coherent strategy for linking the retail areas with the waterfront. We have great central parks, but they are increasingly becoming isolated, with the town centre increasingly turning its back towards them. The City Council are still coming up with plans that do things like put a heritage centre in the Civic Centre, when clearly that would be far better to build one where it can help integrate the waterfront (where our heritage lies) with the shopping area. We still want the arts centre where Tyrell& Green was, maintaining and accentuating the strung-out shape of the town. We have done little to expose and highlight the town walls, or integrate our old buildings into developments easily visible to the visitor. The wider West Quay area is just a visual mess. John Lewis our flagship store has its restaurant view murdered by an enormous blue box. That’s why Southampton Football Club isn’t an investment opportunity for the big players. It’s tainted by the lack of ambition and short sightedness of the entire city. I suggest if you love it so much you move there because no-one else will. Portsea Island is a dump although I accept that Old Portsmouth and the Gunwharf are good and the Spinnaker Tower interesting but the rest is just dire . How am I qualified to judge - I worked there for 15 years and the M27 journey was far preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Thats right, before we were made conscious of swimming in other peoples p1$$ and dirt Reminds me of the joke about the woman telling her friend that her little nipper had been thrown out of the swimming baths for peeing in the pool. Really?, her friend asked, incredulous. Surely all the little kids did that, she said. Not from the top diving board, her friend replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 29 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 May, 2009 They own the horse racing interests because that, football and motor racing are all ways that they can showcase their wealth by being in the winners enclosure, being in the directors' boxes, entertaining the other high-power business people who inhabit those environments. They own the prestige hotels to gain prestige, but also to make money from the wealthy people who stay there. They have mega revenue from their oil and they need to invest as much of that income into other fields in readiness for when oil either runs out or is replaced by greener fuels less harmful to the planet. But blowing the cash on sporting activites is purely down to egotistical reasons, not for financial gain. As others say, Pompey is merely a target because it is in the Premiership, no other reason. The bigger clubs have already been bought and cannot be picked up as cheaply as Pompey. We would even now be the better buy from the perspective of stadium, potential and price, but it would require two or three years to get back to the Premiership, which in itself is suggestive that the current status of the two clubs is relevant. Ok you win. Next time you want to be entertained and impressed, I'll ask him to take you to Fratton Park! So how long do you think it will take him to build an "impressive" replacement? More that two/three years I bet. But it seems as though he doesn't mind waiting, presumably his mates who all watch formula 1 and the Dubai Classic and park their yachts in Monte Carlo, Cannes or St Tropez have said they won't mind slumming it until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 (edited) Ok you win. Next time you want to be entertained and impressed, I'll ask him to take you to Fratton Park! So how long do you think it will take him to build an "impressive" replacement? More that two/three years I bet. But it seems as though he doesn't mind waiting, presumably his mates who all watch formula 1 and the Dubai Classic and park their yachts in Monte Carlo, Cannes or St Tropez have said they won't mind slumming it until then. He'll soon realise that the Fratton area is a ****hole. His mates can park their yachts in the Hamble, in our backyard. They won't have to travel far to Goodwood or Fontwell or over the water for Cowes week. But there really isn't much to interest him in Skatesville in the winter or during the football season. Edited 29 May, 2009 by Wes Tender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simondo Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 he's buying a premier league club, in the best league in the world. if saints were there he might have bought us.... but we're not...and a long way from it. absolutely nothing to do with the city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 29 May, 2009 Share Posted 29 May, 2009 Wasn't the club spin for not developing the Toys Are Us site because the area was too foggy and too many games would get called off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo's a pansy Posted 30 May, 2009 Share Posted 30 May, 2009 So let me get this right. An Arab billionnaire is buying a club with no history, that has the worst ground in the Premiere League, in an awful city with no room to expand because this plaything brings him kudos with the only people who matter to him - other Arab billionnaires. If you think Arabs are that stupid with their money, think again. You are guilty of blinkered vision. Portsmouth FC has a history of over a hundred years,which I am sure he will have had researched for him,up to and including last years FA Cup. The stadium has had planning permission granted,but Abramovich did not proceed (presumably due to the recent credit crunch),however to say that there is no room to expand is not correct,(that also includes plans for a new supermarket etc,etc ) and there is always the land outside the Portsea Island area,such as Cosham,Farlington,etc,etc. Whether it is "an awful city", is just your view, but many hundreds of coaches take holidaymakers to Southsea every year, and many more go to see all the other attractions, and I would suggest that an Arab billionaire could easily see the advantages of Portsmouth. BUT,BUT,BUT in the end he doesn't give a flying fig. All he sees is a team in the Premier League as opposed to one on another planet somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo's a pansy Posted 30 May, 2009 Share Posted 30 May, 2009 Oops ! GAYDAMARK not Abramovich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFM Posted 30 May, 2009 Share Posted 30 May, 2009 You are guilty of blinkered vision. Portsmouth FC has a history of over a hundred years,which I am sure he will have had researched for him,up to and including last years FA Cup. The stadium has had planning permission granted,but Abramovich did not proceed (presumably due to the recent credit crunch),however to say that there is no room to expand is not correct,(that also includes plans for a new supermarket etc,etc ) and there is always the land outside the Portsea Island area,such as Cosham,Farlington,etc,etc. Whether it is "an awful city", is just your view, but many hundreds of coaches take holidaymakers to Southsea every year, and many more go to see all the other attractions, and I would suggest that an Arab billionaire could easily see the advantages of Portsmouth. BUT,BUT,BUT in the end he doesn't give a flying fig. All he sees is a team in the Premier League as opposed to one on another planet somewhere. So...................the multi-rich Arab has decided to reseach the football history of all 92 football clubs before making his financial decision then? Ah I see. Perhaps in his intensive personal investigations he missed that SFC was founded in 1885. Crazy mistake for an astute businessman and his team basing such financial outlay on such matters. Perhaps he was influenced by that "holding the FA Cup for the longest" fact that he would have eagerly latched upon? With his money I have no doubt that he asked for the exact details number of tourist coaches travelling to Southsea as opposed to other clubs. There is certainly room to expand from Fratton though I agree. He could demolish the whole area and those beautiful places like Cosham you mention with no-one giving a ****. Bloody clever bloke. Not even thinking about Premiership income but the number of coaches to Southsea. What planet are you on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanovski Posted 30 May, 2009 Share Posted 30 May, 2009 loada **** about stadium being in a bad place 15-20 minute walk,close parking, and buses. moan moan moan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo's a pansy Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 So...................the multi-rich Arab has decided to reseach the football history of all 92 football clubs before making his financial decision then? Ah I see. Perhaps in his intensive personal investigations he missed that SFC was founded in 1885. Crazy mistake for an astute businessman and his team basing such financial outlay on such matters. Perhaps he was influenced by that "holding the FA Cup for the longest" fact that he would have eagerly latched upon? With his money I have no doubt that he asked for the exact details number of tourist coaches travelling to Southsea as opposed to other clubs. There is certainly room to expand from Fratton though I agree. He could demolish the whole area and those beautiful places like Cosham you mention with no-one giving a ****. Bloody clever bloke. Not even thinking about Premiership income but the number of coaches to Southsea. What planet are you on? EFM If you bothered to read what I said; neither in my post, or the one I was quoting,did anyone suggest that Portsmouth had the LONGEST history,but that they do have a history. As to the city being "awful" ; right from the start of this topic ,in the very first post, and from many other people who have given their opinions, there is a recognition that Portsmouth has a tremendous amount of things going for it as a city, which you obviously do not agree with, but you appear to be blinkered in your views and not in the majority. The number of visitors can easily be researched, and whether they come by motorcycle,bus,train or car is irrelevant; but if you wish to be pedantic and churlish, you are missing the context of the information and ignoring the content. Rather than asking me about my planet, I suggest that when you return to school, you ask your teacher to give you some extra help with your reading skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 EFM If you bothered to read what I said; neither in my post, or the one I was quoting,did anyone suggest that Portsmouth had the LONGEST history,but that they do have a history. As to the city being "awful" ; right from the start of this topic ,in the very first post, and from many other people who have given their opinions, there is a recognition that Portsmouth has a tremendous amount of things going for it as a city, which you obviously do not agree with, but you appear to be blinkered in your views and not in the majority. The number of visitors can easily be researched, and whether they come by motorcycle,bus,train or car is irrelevant; but if you wish to be pedantic and churlish, you are missing the context of the information and ignoring the content. Rather than asking me about my planet, I suggest that when you return to school, you ask your teacher to give you some extra help with your reading skills. Can the number of visitors be easily researched? If so, why not do it for us to make your point? Presumably, you are going to separate the numbers who just pass through the port as passengers on the ferries and compare the million or so that arrive in Southampton as Liner passengers. Then, of course, you'll have to consider the number of passengers embarking or arriving at our International Airport. Yes, you have some historic attractions, provided that your visitors like looking at old ships (which they can do in one day) but beyond that and a kiss me quick / fish and chip beach resort with pebbles and lots of tatooed fat ladies in abundance, what else is there? Southsea and Old Portsmouth is reasonably attractive, but the rest of the City is a dreary little Southern version of Coronation Street. Geographically, Southampton is better placed than Portsmouth, the major industry of our city is growing, whereas the major impetus behind Portsmouth's port is dying. Being an Island, they are running out of space, whereas we still have much potential for development and expansion. Both Cities have been forced by circumstances to make changes since the war, but in the mid/long term from now, we are far better placed to grow and develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints Warrior Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 Stadium is in wrong place so fans put off certainly for driving and parking. Too many shops spread over large area to bet some people just spend all day in shops. The Docks is probally the only attraction , but a transit one ie those going on a cruise will see it. But I put the NO investor in the last 6 years down to the board and Lowe. Can you really think of 1 reason to invest during those incompetant years NO, you would have estimated that the club would go into Division 3 as we are now or bust as we almost are. The MTL consortium has at least given Saints a chance to build a `footballing ` operation not a yuppy duck shooting reverse takeover, we may just attact the investment we hoped for during 2003/4 in 5 years. PS I think Eastleigh has more attactions than Southampton!! Trainspotting hot spot Cinema Park Decent shops Spitfire monument (they had it years ago) Airport (Its actually in Eastleigh) Sports center (easy to get to and good parking) Lakeside Park Eastleigh FC (easy to get to and good parking for its capacity) Less traffic lights Less pot holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 Yawn - all the old stereo-types about Arab businessmen trotted out again... In order to make a sale in this market you drop the "ROI" or "USP" buzz words and look for a bigger picture. The bigger picture with Saints pre-property bubble would have been an integrated near-on billion dollar project to re-develop the Waterfront Area around the club. Somebody elsewhere referred to "The Sydney of the North". This place has been obsessed with property development and speculation, it is all NEW to them, as it only started being possible in the last 5-7 years, and the locals have attacked it with gusto. Dubai now feels the impact of that and, to all intents and purposes is in negative equity. Abu Dhabi having always been more conservative is not, their fundamentals are still sound. What you can be sure of is that Al Fahim is not buying the Skates to try and be another Man City. His "mates" wouldn't stand for that anyway. What he will be looking for is to leverage the "Brand" and the fact he has the club to drive through some major redevelopment, the stadium will be a centrepiece and the political tool he needs to get the planning permissions for a mega-project that will take 5 or 6 years to come to fruition, but where he can buy the land at rock-bottom prices These guys are serious businessmen and they think big. They also make sure that they drive EVERY cost down through the floor, and have a total lack of real understanding of "Customer Service" or "loyalty" That doesn't mean they will not run the club properly, but he will have it as a stepping stone on his roadmap to becoming a global zillionaire Trust me, if he thought he could make more money by moving the club to Hamble or Thorney Island and redevelop the entire area into a new town with 80,000 new housing units, it would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 Stadium is in wrong place so fans put off certainly for driving and parking. Too many shops spread over large area to bet some people just spend all day in shops. The Docks is probally the only attraction , but a transit one ie those going on a cruise will see it. But I put the NO investor in the last 6 years down to the board and Lowe. Can you really think of 1 reason to invest during those incompetant years NO, you would have estimated that the club would go into Division 3 as we are now or bust as we almost are. The MTL consortium has at least given Saints a chance to build a `footballing ` operation not a yuppy duck shooting reverse takeover, we may just attact the investment we hoped for during 2003/4 in 5 years. PS I think Eastleigh has more attactions than Southampton!! Trainspotting hot spot Cinema Park Decent shops Spitfire monument (they had it years ago) Airport (Its actually in Eastleigh) Sports center (easy to get to and good parking) Lakeside Park Eastleigh FC (easy to get to and good parking for its capacity) Less traffic lights Less pot holes I was born and bred in Beastleigh and made it my number 1 priority to get out as soon as I turned 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 Wasn't the club spin for not developing the Toys Are Us site because the area was too foggy and too many games would get called off. I read a comment at the time that we couldn't build there because it is reclaimed ground. I've never found out why that was a problem, unless it meant deep foundations. ...and Pompey aren't a Premiership football club, they are a club in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 (edited) Yawn - all the old stereo-types about Arab businessmen trotted out again... In order to make a sale in this market you drop the "ROI" or "USP" buzz words and look for a bigger picture. The bigger picture with Saints pre-property bubble would have been an integrated near-on billion dollar project to re-develop the Waterfront Area around the club. Somebody elsewhere referred to "The Sydney of the North". This place has been obsessed with property development and speculation, it is all NEW to them, as it only started being possible in the last 5-7 years, and the locals have attacked it with gusto. Dubai now feels the impact of that and, to all intents and purposes is in negative equity. Abu Dhabi having always been more conservative is not, their fundamentals are still sound. What you can be sure of is that Al Fahim is not buying the Skates to try and be another Man City. His "mates" wouldn't stand for that anyway. What he will be looking for is to leverage the "Brand" and the fact he has the club to drive through some major redevelopment, the stadium will be a centrepiece and the political tool he needs to get the planning permissions for a mega-project that will take 5 or 6 years to come to fruition, but where he can buy the land at rock-bottom prices These guys are serious businessmen and they think big. They also make sure that they drive EVERY cost down through the floor, and have a total lack of real understanding of "Customer Service" or "loyalty" That doesn't mean they will not run the club properly, but he will have it as a stepping stone on his roadmap to becoming a global zillionaire Trust me, if he thought he could make more money by moving the club to Hamble or Thorney Island and redevelop the entire area into a new town with 80,000 new housing units, it would happen. Perhaps that's the picture that the new potential Saints buyers see Phil - the Sydney element. Now OK, Fawley spoils that somewhat but Soton is internationally known as a cruise destination and I don't think there are many cities in Western Europe with as much under-used waterfront as us. Once, and if, property prices do recover somewhat, there are whole areas of the city that are ripe for proper regeneration - Meridian TV studios shell, the land around it, Town Depot near SMS, Ocean Village (and I mean a proper rebuild), Vospers in Woolston and to be honest, most of the northern part of the City Centre, not least around Tyrell & Green. Judging by the pathetic Ocean Village development and the Bellway farce at St Mary's St, the City Council need to be facilitators and private investment is the best way forward. SCC cannot do it themselves. What is then needed is a proper ferry system reaching out to the New Forest and East to Stokes Bay similar to what is available at Circular Quay in Sydney and the DLR-type system that was shelved stupidly in the 1980s. Ocean Village should be developed with proper tall buildings to attract major companies and skilled work to a high-profile watefront location and such companies can be serviced by one of the world's best Universities right on it's doorstep. The NIMBYism that has blighted the city needs to be tackled ruthlessly - people have to choose between their children to have skilled jobs and staying in the area and a future or continue to see the city rot into a hovel. Look how many exiles there are on this board already that have needed to leave the area to find skilled work. A Premier League club returning to Southampton in the next few years would be a key catalyst in attracting the proper clout to drive all of this forward. The potential is there - fast train to London, airport but it needs ambition and an outward view - something that until now those running the city and the football club have singularly lacked. Let's hope this is the first chapter of the pages being turned at long last. Edited 31 May, 2009 by saint1977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 I read a comment at the time that we couldn't build there because it is reclaimed ground. I've never found out why that was a problem, unless it meant deep foundations. ...and Pompey aren't a Premiership football club, they are a club in the Premiership. No....it was the Lido, as I've said previously. There is a theory why we never went there, one in which I had an inside track, at the time. Most on here would poo poo that theory...so!!. It was planned to have a footbridge straight from the station, into the stadium. Road access was deemed to be a problem......turns out it wasn't!!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 Perhaps that's the picture that the new potential Saints buyers see Phil - the Sydney element. Now OK, Fawley spoils that somewhat but Soton is internationally known as a cruise destination and I don't think there are many cities in Western Europe with as much under-used waterfront as us. Once, and if, property prices do recover somewhat, there are whole areas of the city that are ripe for proper regeneration - Meridian TV studios shell, the land around it, Town Depot near SMS, Ocean Village (and I mean a proper rebuild), Vospers in Woolston and to be honest, most of the northern part of the City Centre, not least around Tyrell & Green. Judging by the pathetic Ocean Village development and the Bellway farce at St Mary's St, the City Council need to be facilitators and private investment is the best way forward. SCC cannot do it themselves. What is then needed is a proper ferry system reaching out to the New Forest and East to Stokes Bay similar to what is available at Circular Quay in Sydney and the DLR-type system that was shelved stupidly in the 1980s. Ocean Village should be developed with proper tall buildings to attract major companies and skilled work to a high-profile watefront location and such companies can be serviced by one of the world's best Universities right on it's doorstep. The NIMBYism that has blighted the city needs to be tackled ruthlessly - people have to choose between their children to have skilled jobs and staying in the area and a future or continue to see the city rot into a hovel. Look how many exiles there are on this board already that have needed to leave the area to find skilled work. A Premier League club returning to Southampton in the next few years would be a key catalyst in attracting the proper clout to drive all of this forward. The potential is there - fast train to London, airport but it needs ambition and an outward view - something that until now those running the city and the football club have singularly lacked. Let's hope this is the first chapter of the pages being turned at long last. Spot on. Obviously you'll never make an SCC councillor:-) Now think it through again..... You worked it out, The only things missing were a club with a chance to get back into the PL very quickly and the fact that we hit the worst recession in decades at just about the same time Which is extremely annoying, but it's OK nobody thought things through or read stuff that well in the last few months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMarlin Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 The talk of Sydney makes for an interesting comparison. One of the big successes of Sydney (now overtaken by time, but revolutionary when it was built) was Darling Harbour, an old run-down, former Dockland area, divorced by a couple of miles from the city centre, not unlike Ocean Village. Also like Ocean Village it was revitalised with bars, shops and flats but what marked it out was the monorail which connected it to the city centre. The monorail was the vital lifeline that provided the connection with the bustling nerve centre, without it Darling Harbour would have frittered away. The envisaged monorail would have done exactly the same for Ocean Village, unfortunately it was killed off by the king of the NIMBYs, cllr Jack Candy. He is the man who single-handedly condemned Ocean Village to a long, lingering death by cutting the artery that could have fed life-blood into it. On another note, there is a saying in Italy: “Milan earns, while Rome spends.” It alludes to the fact that Rome has little or no big industry connected to it, but as the capital, sucks up all the money that northern Italian industry makes. It has been a similar situation with Southampton and Portsmouth. As the home of Britain’s Navy, Portsmouth was always a ‘government’ town. The biggest employer was the naval dockyard, which supported a network of support industries. Naturally, the Dockyard was funded by central government. In contrast, Southampton has always had to stand on its own two feet. The docks were built by railway companies, and Southampton was never a ‘government’ town in the same way Portsmouth was. When the Dockyard was hit by savage government cuts in the 70s and 80s, Portsmouth’s industry and structure collapsed. As a city, it spiralled into decline and as one of Europe’s poorest cities (in terms of income per household, it ranked with Naples) it qualified for Special Status help. All manner of government aid was channelled into Portsmouth. In contrast, as much of Southampton’s industry was private it never qualified for the sort of assistance Portsmouth did, and was largely left to its own devices. What Southampton managed to do was diversify. As traditional industry shrunk, so the service industries grew, which is why Southampton is home to many regional headquarters of banking and insurance companies (yes, I know Portsmouth has got some as well). If Portsmouth has overtaken Southampton in some aspects, it is because they cleverly invested the government money it qualified for as an economically deprived area. Southampton had never been classed as an economically deprived area (try telling that to all the Ford, BAT, Vospers, AC Delco, Pirelli, etc workers who have seen their workplaces disappear!) and so has never enjoyed the sort of government life-support that Portsmouth had. Any success Portsmouth enjoys as a city is largely built on government funding. Couple of other things. My missus is from Portsmouth, and certainly nails the lie that all girls from there are *****rs. Secondly, if my memory serves me I think Southampton Docks is now Arab-owned. Wasn’t ABP bought out by an arm of the Dubai Investment Corporation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 31 May, 2009 Share Posted 31 May, 2009 I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey who said he was buying them because they had much better scope for growth, and that he’d been looking around for a club for quite some time. He apparently was prepared to buy Newcastle for 200m some time ago but Ashley wanted 400m. This begs the question, why were Saints not on his horizon. Last year with the right buyer we were a season away from the Premiere League, and he was looking to buy a club then. He’d have got us for 50m tops, probably a lot less. And we have a stadium, not a word you could use to describe Fratton Park. So why pay quite a sizeable sum for Portsmouth now when he could have got us for much, much less, still liquid, a year ago? 1) We were CCC not Prem – but he could have pretty well bought promotion 2) We weren’t high profile enough – Pompey can’t really be described as high profile, and we had a 30 year recent history of top division football Turning back to growth potential, what have Pompey got that we haven’t? Is our stadium in the wrong place? – Probably. Far from good transport links, and stuck in a dead-looking area with no scope for quality non-industrial development. Is Portsmouth a more attractive place than Southampton? – Definitely yes. Up to say 10 years ago I’d always have said Southampton over Pompey, but not any longer. Portsmouth has had a vision for the development of the harbour area far beyond what our planners have managed to come up with for Southampton. They built a forward-looking Spinnaker Tower, placed to attract attention as part of an integrated harbour development, marina and shopping. We on the other hand can’t seem to get past a tin-foil mock up of a spitfire stuck on the end of a jetty separated from just about everything, the closest shopping being West Quay with it’s special view over roads, surface car parks and tin boxes. If you are lucky you might be able to see a cruise liner funnel. Portsmouth as a city attracts far more attention than Southampton, which has no focus, no integrated development plan, and has pretty much thrown away the chance it once had to come up with a coherent strategy for linking the retail areas with the waterfront. We have great central parks, but they are increasingly becoming isolated, with the town centre increasingly turning its back towards them. The City Council are still coming up with plans that do things like put a heritage centre in the Civic Centre, when clearly that would be far better to build one where it can help integrate the waterfront (where our heritage lies) with the shopping area. We still want the arts centre where Tyrell& Green was, maintaining and accentuating the strung-out shape of the town. We have done little to expose and highlight the town walls, or integrate our old buildings into developments easily visible to the visitor. The wider West Quay area is just a visual mess. John Lewis our flagship store has its restaurant view murdered by an enormous blue box. That’s why Southampton Football Club isn’t an investment opportunity for the big players. It’s tainted by the lack of ambition and short sightedness of the entire city. Spot on. Been saying the same for ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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