CB Fry Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 I was not intending to post a comprehensive list, merely suggesting that it is not a foregone conclusion that we will bounce back quickly. I deliberately excluded Championship clubs from my examples. The three clubs you mentioned have all won more glittering prizes than Saints, and even (whisper it quietly) Pompey had won a lot more than us before they spent long years in the wilderness. Comparisons with luton Town do not bear thinking about! No one is saying its a foregone conclusion, but it seems to me anyone that even suggests that getting promoted within three years is a possibility gets slaughted by the doom mongers. In reasonable memory, lets say from 1980 onwards, Leicester, Sheff Weds have not won more "glittering prizes" than we have, and Forest's double European Cup win did not actually help them get promoted from League One last season, some twenty years later. But those clubs in size stature and fanbase are like us. They are more like us than Oxford, Swindon or Oldham. Is it possible for us to be in L1 for the next fifty years, or twenty years, or ten years. Yes, its possible. Is it possible for us to promoted from L1 in the next three years. Yes, it is possible. I'm sorry but the second of those is far more likely than the first, and it is ridiculous that a view point like that is described by some (not you) as people thinking it will be a "piece of ****".
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 You obviously remember Angus, Elder, Pointer, Blacklaw and the like...Now that was a youth academy. You must be joking ! I can hardly remember what I was doing this morning - I do seem to recall a vague memory of Adam Blacklaw being a bloody good keeper though .
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 No one is saying its a foregone conclusion, but it seems to me anyone that even suggests that getting promoted within three years is a possibility gets slaughted by the doom mongers. In reasonable memory, lets say from 1980 onwards, Leicester, Sheff Weds have not won more "glittering prizes" than we have, and Forest's double European Cup win did not actually help them get promoted from League One last season, some twenty years later. But those clubs in size stature and fanbase are like us. They are more like us than Oxford, Swindon or Oldham. Is it possible for us to be in L1 for the next fifty years, or twenty years, or ten years. Yes, its possible. Is it possible for us to promoted from L1 in the next three years. Yes, it is possible. I'm sorry but the second of those is far more likely than the first, and it is ridiculous that a view point like that is described by some (not you) as people thinking it will be a "piece of ****". We shall need to have the right manager in place. I was interested to see that Sam Allardyce took over at Notts County who were then relegated but came back up next season winning the title by a 19-point margin. I may be wrong, but I don't think that Wotte falls into the same category.
aintforever Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 No chance of promotion next season but hopefully, with the right owners, we should stand a good chance the year after.
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 No chance of promotion next season but hopefully, with the right owners, we should stand a good chance the year after. That's a fair summary. Concise and succint.
CB Fry Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 That's a fair summary. Concise and succint. Indeed it is, combined with your point about the right (different) manager in place. I'm sure this is the view held by almost all Saints fans, which is why the original poster's point is so baffling. I don't know anyone that thinks it's going to be "a piece of ****", especially not next season.
Block 5 Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 Of course we will get promoted. All we need is: 1) Loads of cash to get a really good manager. 2) Loads of cash to get some really good players. 3) Er. 4) That's it.
CB Fry Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 Of course we will get promoted. All we need is: 1) Loads of cash to get a really good manager. 2) Loads of cash to get some really good players. 3) Er. 4) That's it. We do not need "loads of cash" to get promoted from League One. And we barely need a "really good manager" unless you describe Nigel Adkins, or Colin Calderwood as "really good managers". We need a good manager. Er. That's it. What are you people on. We're not trying to win the Champions League.
Barry the Badger Posted 27 May, 2009 Author Posted 27 May, 2009 Is it possible for us to be in L1 for the next fifty years, or twenty years, or ten years. Yes, its possible. Is it possible for us to promoted from L1 in the next three years. Yes, it is possible. I'm sorry but the second of those is far more likely than the first, and it is ridiculous that a view point like that is described by some (not you) as people thinking it will be a "piece of ****". That is complete rubbish CB. I have not taken people saying we can get promoted within 3 years and turned it into people saying it will be easy. But hey you keep twisting things to ensure your argument makes sense in your head. I have said myself that it is possible for us to get promoted within that time. I am not a doom monger, just concerned about what I think are overly high expectations. I have spoken to a number of people (and one has appeared on this thread) who think promotion will be easy. It is not in my imagination. You are saying you don't think that view is widespread, I think it is and I think that you are wrong.
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 We will go back up easliy in the next 2-3 seasons. Next season will be tough and our finishing position will be depend on the minus points or not, which will be the difference between automatic and play offs, imho. If it doesn't happen next year it will in either of the following two seasons. When we get promoted I will remind you of this thread. Stand by for a MASSIVE dissapointment. I believe we will struggle to overcome the points deduction and so will be on the back foot all season. There is no winning mentality at Southampton FC so I dont expect anything to change. Add to that the FACT that Wotte is friggin clueless, and we have all the ingredients of another fukkin disaster. League 2 = very very real prospect
CB Fry Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 (edited) That is complete rubbish CB. I have not taken people saying we can get promoted within 3 years and turned it into people saying it will be easy. But hey you keep twisting things to ensure your argument makes sense in your head. I have said myself that it is possible for us to get promoted within that time. I am not a doom monger, just concerned about what I think are overly high expectations. I have spoken to a number of people (and one has appeared on this thread) who think promotion will be easy. It is not in my imagination. You are saying you don't think that view is widespread, I think it is and I think that you are wrong. Sorry, if anyone is talking rubbish its you, being you have based your entire argument on the wafer thin difference between what is "possible" (or what you're allowed to think, and is perfectly fine) against what is "expected" (which is what you think everyone else thinks, and is therefore wrong). It's a pointless semantic debate you are having about a difference of opinion that frankly is not there. I've not changed my mind. I think it is possible that we could get promoted in 2-3 seasons but also I think anybody expecting it or thinking it will be easy will be in for a shock. I'm not sure that we as fans are quite geared up for what a bloody hard slog L1 is going to be and in my opinion the quicker we face up to it the better. Fans thinking that it's going to be a piece of p*ss are not going to help the cause as they will turn on the team as soon as their unrealistic expectations are not met. Err - just to remind you, you're the one who started the "piece of p*ss" thing. As someone else has already said, no one is saying anything of the sort. Find something that anyone has said on this forum in the last month, or refer me to a real person that thinks promotion from League One is a "piece of ****". No one thinks it, you are wrong. If anything, the prevalent extreme view is the view that we are doomed to L2 and worse, and/or going out of business. How many people at SaintsAid thought promotion from L1 was going to be a piece of p*ss? Edited 27 May, 2009 by CB Fry
Barry the Badger Posted 27 May, 2009 Author Posted 27 May, 2009 you have based your entire argument on the wafer thin difference between what is "possible" (or what you're allowed to think, and is perfectly fine) against what is "expected" (which is what you think everyone else thinks, and is therefore wrong). If you can't see that there is a genuine difference between accepting that something is possible and taking it for granted or expecting that it will happen then we have nowhere to go with this discussion. Find something that anyone has said on this forum in the last month, or refer me to a real person that thinks promotion from League One is a "piece of ****". Done. Fan the Flames said on this thread "We will get promoted easily in the next 2-3 seasons". No one thinks it, you are wrong. Having spoken to a number of people who have expressed this view, the "we will walk L1" view, I decided to check the general opinion by starting this thread. There are a number of other people on here concerned with the same thing so I cannot be the only one who has encountered this. You clearly have not spoken to anybody with that view but you can't tell me I haven't. I have.
CB Fry Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 (edited) If you can't see that there is a genuine difference between accepting that something is possible and taking it for granted or expecting that it will happen then we have nowhere to go with this discussion. Sorry, the difference is minimal and semantics. I think it is possible we'll go up in the next three years and I expect we will as well. It's the same thing. It's possible we could go up twice and win the FA Cup in the third season, but I don't expect that. "Expect" is actually the more useful word here. "Possible" just means anything and is utterly meaningless in your usage. Done. Fan the Flames said on this thread "We will get promoted easily in the next 2-3 seasons". Yeah, and we probably will. To use your phrase, it's "possible" isn't it? Having spoken to a number of people who have expressed this view, the "we will walk L1" view, I decided to check the general opinion by starting this thread. There are a number of other people on here concerned with the same thing so I cannot be the only one who has encountered this. You clearly have not spoken to anybody with that view but you can't tell me I haven't. I have. Funny that no-one has said "when we get promoted" on this forum, at all, in recent times. Being that was your smart-arse thread title, it kind of p*sses on your chips somewhat. Funny I can't see anyone on this thread saying we'll walk the league either. Funny, eh? Where are these people again? Edited 27 May, 2009 by CB Fry
Barry the Badger Posted 27 May, 2009 Author Posted 27 May, 2009 Funny that no-one has said "when we get promoted" on this forum, at all, in recent times. Being that was your smart-arse thread title, it kind of p*sses on your chips somewhat. I've already linked to the post which prompted my thread, the actual words are " but when we go back up". I have also pointed to Fan the Flames saying we will be "easily" promoted. You asked me to show you somebody, I did that and you then argue semantics because thats all you have left. I stand by my original opinion. I wasn't trying to be smart-arsed, I was raising a point for discussion about something which concerns me, overly high expectations. I started the thread to get peoples opinions, not to have a one on one argument with you mate. You are just trying to wind me up now and I'm not going to rise to it again. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong, no doubt you will come back on and make sure you will have the last word but you're welcome to it. Bye now.
miserableoldgit Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 Too many double negatives there for me to comprehend. I'm off to a different thread..... One with a better standard of grammar I hope!
CB Fry Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 I wasn't trying to be smart-arsed, I was raising a point for discussion about something which concerns me, overly high expectations. I started the thread to get peoples opinions, not to have a one on one argument with you mate. If you think that people saying we'll get promoted from League One, the third tier of English Football, some time in the next three seasons is "overly high expectations" then **** me you must be a riot at dinner parties.
kpturner Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 The bottom line is that you started a thread based on the premise that most (or too many) people think that promotion back to the CCC is a formality, and then qualified it with a question asking what people thought about our chances within the next 3 seasons. It is your opinion and that is fine. However, I think that you are incorrect to think most (or too many) people think this way. The examples on this forum of people thinking that way are as rare as rocking horse **** from what I have seen. IMHO most people are realistic and think we will struggle for a season or two - but promotion within 3 seasons is not "pie in the sky". It is a realistic target, albeit very difficult to achieve.
teamsaint Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 In order to thrive, this club needs good management, and a plan. That plan needs to include rebuilding a winning attitude, rebuilding the fanbase, and accepting that along the way there may be setbacks. when the setbacks occur we need to stick to the plan, and NOT panic. Wolves this season show what can be done on the back of previous failure.
kpturner Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 In order to thrive, this club needs good management, and a plan. That plan needs to include rebuilding a winning attitude, rebuilding the fanbase, and accepting that along the way there may be setbacks. when the setbacks occur we need to stick to the plan, and NOT panic. Wolves this season show what can be done on the back of previous failure.Very true, even if it has nowt to do with this thread :-)
teamsaint Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 Very true, even if it has nowt to do with this thread :-) i know. These threads get kinda confusing. I shall now go and speak my great good sense somewhere else!! i think most fans are pretty realistic. Best we can hope for is a stab at the playoffs. we need to build a promotion team for 2010-11. Can't belive I am typing that, on several levels.
Barry the Badger Posted 27 May, 2009 Author Posted 27 May, 2009 The bottom line is that you started a thread based on the premise that most (or too many) people think that promotion back to the CCC is a formality, and then qualified it with a question asking what people thought about our chances within the next 3 seasons. It is your opinion and that is fine. However, I think that you are incorrect to think most (or too many) people think this way. The examples on this forum of people thinking that way are as rare as rocking horse **** from what I have seen. IMHO most people are realistic and think we will struggle for a season or two - but promotion within 3 seasons is not "pie in the sky". It is a realistic target, albeit very difficult to achieve. Fair enough, at least you actually accept that my point of view may be different to yours, unlike others. Actually KP I think you have probably just said what CB Fry has been trying to say, except you've done it without backing me into a corner by picking holes in every word I have written. From conversations I have had outside of my immediate friend group, and from snippets I had picked up on here it seemed to me as though a reasonable section of fans felt that L1 would be easy, which was a bit worrying, hence the reason I started the thread. I guess this thread has shown that most people do think it will be tough and so I can see it is just a small minority who think we will walk league 1.
kpturner Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 Fair enough, at least you actually accept that my point of view may be different to yours, unlike others. Actually KP I think you have probably just said what CB Fry has been trying to say, except you've done it without backing me into a corner by picking holes in every word I have written. From conversations I have had outside of my immediate friend group, and from snippets I had picked up on here it seemed to me as though a reasonable section of fans felt that L1 would be easy, which was a bit worrying, hence the reason I started the thread. I guess this thread has shown that most people do think it will be tough and so I can see it is just a small minority who think we will walk league 1.I was just joking - I think we'll be promoted by xmas ;-)
Barry the Badger Posted 27 May, 2009 Author Posted 27 May, 2009 I was just joking - I think we'll be promoted by xmas ;-) Erm, me too. I think we'll be relegated to Eastleigh Wednesday Night 6-a-side Pitch Invasion by xmas, being a doom monger and all, apparently.
gjphilsaint Posted 27 May, 2009 Posted 27 May, 2009 The whole money orientated situation is obscene and we see it as clearly as anyone because we are broke. Its just not about football anymore... the whole football business makes me sick...
offix Posted 28 May, 2009 Posted 28 May, 2009 With a minimum of 10 points penalty, possibly more, just survival next season would be a bonus. Beyond that it is impossible to even speculate. For now we can only hope that we are still in existence next season.
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