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Did the "Lowe Boycott" Damage the Chances..


Guided Missile

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During the last two home games, I had a different fan sitting next to me telling me proudly how he'd stayed away because of Rupert Lowe and now he was gone, he'd bought a matchday ticket. It was like meeting a long lost relative that turns up at a relative's funeral, having failed to visit them when they were alive. I hate every f***er on this website that has boycotted the club and brought us to this and I read their self serving bullsh !t posts with disdain. The problem is that there are so many long distance stay aways that post boll ox on here that people think they also represent the fans that stuck with the club, irrespective of who was on the board or whether we were winning. You're right and so is Stu. You don't deserve this situation and I wasn't suggesting that. I'm sorry if it wasn't clearer...

 

Very well said GM, just very very well said.

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Frankly GM I do not believe that there were that many people who boycotted because of Lowe. Numbers dropped because of several years of consistently under performing squads. People like to see their team winning and it is demoralising to turn up week after week to watch yet another match thrown away by a lack of concentration by the defence or another sitter missed by a striker. Quite simply success brings crowds. If the Dutch experiment had worked and we went on a sustained winning run then the crowds would have turned up - Lowe or no Lowe. Stanley would not have been among them but that is his prerogative. I am an STH and, if we have a club next year, I will be again but I can understand why people have gave up. And I don't believe it had that much to do with their feelings about Lowe.

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Trousers have you got any diagrams that show the effect based on a potantial cause?

 

Wes, to me Saints is part of my family and my relationship is as supportive. If Tesco's sell me shoddy goods I'll go to Asda and have no qualms about it. If Saints are nothing but a supermarket to you then I suggest you leave football or any sport for that matter.

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Frankly GM I do not believe that there were that many people who boycotted because of Lowe. Numbers dropped because of several years of consistently under performing squads. People like to see their team winning and it is demoralising to turn up week after week to watch yet another match thrown away by a lack of concentration by the defence or another sitter missed by a striker. Quite simply success brings crowds. If the Dutch experiment had worked and we went on a sustained winning run then the crowds would have turned up - Lowe or no Lowe. Stanley would not have been among them but that is his prerogative. I am an STH and, if we have a club next year, I will be again but I can understand why people have gave up. And I don't believe it had that much to do with their feelings about Lowe.

 

Indeed.

 

I believe this is covered in Diagram B

 

:)

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Anyone with a passing interest in our club will have noticed how failure, or even class background, was punished by many fans. Some simply boycotted, on the basis that until Lowe left, they would stop going, even being encouraged by the prospect of administration making his departure more likely.

 

This is completely true and anyone denying it is a retard.

 

In the end, those fans will get the club they deserve...and it may be no club at all....

 

I have been saying the same all along - sadly now I have the club that alpine saint and Stanley deserve. That sucks, and I hate them with a passion because of it.

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Will what has gone regarding "boycotts" effect potential investors in SFC?

 

IMO no

Any one who comes into football as an owner, irrespective of the club, must know it is a fickle business and that the only real way to achieve success is on the pitch with a very good squad of 16 players.

 

Crowds , 90% of the time, depend on success at home on the pitch, good facilities, megastores, ticket offices etc help but the average football fan would put up with them being crap if its team wins most games or at least looks like it is likely to win.

 

The numbers boycotting because of Lowe, despite the people sitting next to GM,COULD BE COUNTED IN THEIR hundreds only.The vast majority stayed away because of the poor product on the pitch.

Now you could argue that was because of Lowe too , but that is a different thread

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of an investor buying the club?

 

Anyone with a passing interest in our club will have noticed how failure, or even class background, was punished by many fans. Some simply boycotted, on the basis that until Lowe left, they would stop going, even being encouraged by the prospect of administration making his departure more likely.

 

We now have the same fans begging for a new owner to invest many millions in rescuing us and I have some sympathy for these potential investors, people like Gavyn Davies, thinking carefully about the consequences. Failure in how fans are treated, how succesfull the team is, whether the right manager is chosen may result in the same outcome. A disagreement about the running of the club and the same whining cry babies will go shopping instead of cheering the team on. A no win situation for someone like Mr. Davies, even if the club may be a good investment. The chance to become a hate figure and losing upwards of a £25M investment? No thanks...

 

In the end, those fans will get the club they deserve...and it may be no club at all....

 

pr ick

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You can safely say that not enough fans turning up was one of the major causes of administration,if you couple that with bad managment then there is your answer.

Why the fans didn't turn up is another story.....some fans,not many I suspect didn't come because of lowe,many fans using this as an excuse but I think the majority of stay away fans didn't come because they weren't getting premiership football.

You can argue the rights and wrongs about the reasons for not turning up until you are blue in the face (it has been done on here a million times) but what's done is done.

The fans that boycotted for whatever reason will feel justified in their actions wherever it takes us.

Personally I blame a combination of the fans that didn't come after we were relegated from the premiership and the infighting between the 3 stooges for our demise.

 

The bottom line is no customers = no revenue. People want to be associated with success not failure.

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I have no doubt at all that if we had hovered around in the top 10 all of last season with a decent return from home games our gates Lowe or no Lowe, Dutch experiment or no Dutch experiment, would have constantly been 18-25 k depending on opposition. As one who works most weekends I only saw 8 games last season and most of those were dreadful.I was "lucky" enough to see what was for some time our only home league win ( Norwich ) and we were woeful against a very poor side.Only the fluke from Robertson and the skate getting sent off saved us that night.

The number of Lowe stay aways were imo exaggerated and would not have saved us from where we find ourselves.I think that any investor would have done their homework and know what's been going on at SMS for the last few years.

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As this type of thread is usually started by me, and I usually get lambested for my point of view, I think most people know where I stand. All I can say is that I will never forgive those fans who decided to cut their nose off to spite their face, and prove that fans like that don't deserve a cluib. If they wanted to support a Chairman why not go support Sunderland or someone like that, Niall Quinn is a nice guy.

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I thought you pay for entertainment and with the country in a finance meltdown you pick your events carefully.

 

Blimey what was it four home wins out of 21 games?

 

Maybe next year the team will start winning a few more before the fans come back.

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I think you are entirely right, GM. And it is just not the events of Southampton putting off potential investors - you only have to look at what happened to the Newcastle chairman at the start of last season.

 

I had this discussion with friends a week or so ago, when the euro lottery was over £100m. If we won it, would we buy Saints? And the answer was a unanimous 'no' because there would come a time when it was no longer safe to walk the streets if things went tits up.

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So what you are saying is that the odd number of fans that stayed away because of Lowe was far greater than those that went?

Because for me the 15k or so that kept going far more deserve a decent club than the few who stayed away.

But I thought it only numbered a couple of hundred according the Lowe supporters on here?

So why do a few deserve the club to go to the wall?

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Saints fans are no different to any others, it's nonsense to think that any investor would be put off by what happened to Lowe. In general our fans are quite a reasonable bunch, invade Cardiff - not a hint of trouble, take 2000 to Steua - the same. If anything the support is a reason to invest IMO.

 

If Lowe had done a similar thing to that bunch of chavs down the M27 he would have got a lot worse, that is for sure.

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If those fans treat Southampton FC as a product, there lies the problem! They are consumers, not fanatics. A football club is NOT a product, it is NOT a consumer item that you stop 'buying' if the product is poor. A football club is loved unconditionally by those that call themselves fans.

 

Try telling all that to your (now-departed) Messiah...

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Trousers have you got any diagrams that show the effect based on a potantial cause?

 

Wes, to me Saints is part of my family and my relationship is as supportive. If Tesco's sell me shoddy goods I'll go to Asda and have no qualms about it. If Saints are nothing but a supermarket to you then I suggest you leave football or any sport for that matter.

 

 

 

Very well said Nineteen Canteen, by the way, who are you supporting today?

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The product is lousy !

Some customers don't buy !

Who do we blame ? Why, the customers of course !

 

Some of you guys have to get real, we were lucky that 15,000 odd turned up on a regular basis to watch 4 wins out of 21 in a sh1tty league !

The boardroom bickering, the patronising attitude, the sheer incompetence of those running the club was the major cause of failure and anyone who thinks that the paying customer is in any way at fault is basically thick !!

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If those fans treat Southampton FC as a product, there lies the problem! They are consumers, not fanatics. A football club is NOT a product, it is NOT a consumer item that you stop 'buying' if the product is poor. A football club is loved unconditionally by those that call themselves fans.

 

Fair point. But it should be recognised that every sporting institution has 'core' followers and 'peripheral' followers and if these institutions are being run properly their budgets should take into account this natural attendee type split.

 

I'm sure we all go to other sporting events outside of SFC on a 'drop in' basis. I've only been to watch Hampshire play cricket on a few occasions, for example, but how does that somehow make me a bad person in the eyes of a Hampshire CCC member?

 

Let's get real folks.

 

Actually, no, let's not. It's far more entertaining in cloud-cuckoo-land ;)

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The product is lousy !

Some customers don't buy !

Who do we blame ? Why, the customers of course !

 

Some of you guys have to get real, we were lucky that 15,000 odd turned up on a regular basis to watch 4 wins out of 21 in a sh1tty league !

The boardroom bickering, the patronising attitude, the sheer incompetence of those running the club was the major cause of failure and anyone who thinks that the paying customer is in any way at fault is basically thick !!

 

Amen.

 

This thread is simply Lowe-luvvie distracting b****cks.

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I think you are entirely right, GM. And it is just not the events of Southampton putting off potential investors - you only have to look at what happened to the Newcastle chairman at the start of last season.

 

I had this discussion with friends a week or so ago, when the euro lottery was over £100m. If we won it, would we buy Saints? And the answer was a unanimous 'no' because there would come a time when it was no longer safe to walk the streets if things went tits up.

 

 

The situation you describe is totally down to Rupert Lowe and the way he hijacked the Club with his shareholdings. If he walked forever years ago then the current scenario would not be as bad. His actions have made the whole thing a mockery and no doubt have turned people away. Lowe's attitude was 'its my club' and therefore nobody else can have it.

 

The so called lowe boycott is just a way for his fans to make excuses for him again. It was the worst home start in the clubs history this season lets not forget. Incompetent managament in bringing in two dutch donkeys, so Lowe could be director of football. The list of shame from Lowe goes on and on.....

 

All roads of disaster lead to Lowe, end of.

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I have to say that while the old guard made errors, i do agree somewhat with the first post. Those backed the ousting of Lowe, in what was in hindsight a 'grass is greener' folly, got what they deserved. this is because like children they failed to appreciate and took for granted what they already had. Now everyone is waiting for the new chairman but you have to fear it is a poisoned chalice because of mis-placed expectation.

 

standby for Lowe or Wilde mark two, but in a different guise.

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And it is just not the events of Southampton putting off potential investors.

 

No, its because we are now a league 1 side more like caused by a continuos bickering boardroom and a constant change of management.

 

And the answer was a unanimous 'no' because there would come a time when it was no longer safe to walk the streets if things went tits up.

 

Don't be such a drama queen.

 

So your telling me that those who are dissatisfied with the club and who do not attend games could potentially go round the streets threatening people. ffs

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Why dont we like to answer or debate these difficult and controvercial questions? What is wrong with asking questtions that challenge our own perceptions of our fanbase - by being so resolute in avoiding them and simply dismissing them does it not suggest 'the truth hurts a little'?

 

Like all clubs relegated there is always a drop off to be expected - ours was increased by protests (a little), the loss of appettite for the crap football and the credit crunch (IMHO) - but what is debated here is that both sides want it there way - Those protesting DID say that the numbers were large and therefore GM is right to ask if this might have impacted on potential investors decisions to make a bid - as he says given the expectations of fans being so high, how would a new owner be perceived this time next season if we have no improvement? Would the fan reaction to the curent situation put them off?

 

Alpine points out rightly that there were some such as myself who felt teh reduction wwas less down to Lowes peressence and more down to the loss of appetite for the crap on display (whether down to Lowe, JP/Wotte etc is immaterial) it was crap, we were struggling and it put folk off - in which The answer to GMs question would be NO as the protest was not big enough to register... Perhaps a more pertinent question would be ' Would potential investors be put off by the fact that gates went down dramatically as fans lost faith in the club being able to achieve any success - because in teh CCC and even more so in L1 the gate revenue is so important and even a few 1000 reduction or increase will have a major baring on being able to deliver a sustainable balance sheet or running at a loss - considering we still have some excessive contracts to honour and no guarantee that anyone will come in for those players, the reduction in gates last season is bound to have an impact on any sensible investor when looking at a viable business plan?

Edited by Frank's cousin
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One thing that does make me laugh (in gallows' humour or irony rather than genuine amusement) is that all these people suddenly using the "if a customer doesn't like the product in a shop, he/she doesn't buy it, why shouldn't football be the same?" argument were almost certainly the same people who got ****ed off when Lowe quite openly called the fans "customers" and threw the "football isn't like any other business" argument at him.

 

You can't have it both ways.

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One thing that does make me laugh (in gallows' humour or irony rather than genuine amusement) is that all these people suddenly using the "if a customer doesn't like the product in a shop, he/she doesn't buy it, why shouldn't football be the same?" argument were almost certainly the same people who got ****ed off when Lowe quite openly called the fans "customers" and threw the "football isn't like any other business" argument at him.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

LOL (naturally in a gallows way as you suggest)

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If those fans treat Southampton FC as a product, there lies the problem! They are consumers, not fanatics. A football club is NOT a product, it is NOT a consumer item that you stop 'buying' if the product is poor. A football club is loved unconditionally by those that call themselves fans.

 

Spot on.

 

IMO football has become too money-orientated, which has seen clubs become products, franchises etc. We need to snap out of this mentality and, as you said, love the football club unconditionally, through thick and thin, through good times and bad times, in sickness and in health, and all the other related phrases.

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of an investor buying the club?

 

Anyone with a passing interest in our club will have noticed how failure, or even class background, was punished by many fans. Some simply boycotted, on the basis that until Lowe left, they would stop going, even being encouraged by the prospect of administration making his departure more likely.

 

We now have the same fans begging for a new owner to invest many millions in rescuing us and I have some sympathy for these potential investors, people like Gavyn Davies, thinking carefully about the consequences. Failure in how fans are treated, how succesfull the team is, whether the right manager is chosen may result in the same outcome. A disagreement about the running of the club and the same whining cry babies will go shopping instead of cheering the team on. A no win situation for someone like Mr. Davies, even if the club may be a good investment. The chance to become a hate figure and losing upwards of a £25M investment? No thanks...

 

In the end, those fans will get the club they deserve...and it may be no club at all....

 

Once we were quoted as being 'customers' we opened our eyes and realised that we are a commodity. A commodity that, if it so wishes and for any reason even merely a whim, can decide at any given moment to do business with you or someone else who may be perceived to be giving better value, service or entertainment.

 

We have always been customers and more careful business owners know how to treat customers without rubbing our noses in it. Once some of us perceived we were being used that started the ball rolling. Fans give, as we all have done over the years, without any real expectation of return. Maybe a vain hope of a little glory, beating a big club, being runners up. Customers expect more, and then some!

 

The customer may be a fool, maybe a foul mouthed bigot and maybe stupid. But the customer is always right.

 

A tough lesson to learn.

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And finally, GM and 19C climb into bed together. Over time, I have watched this relationship grow and now it has blossomed into one of those stories that Mills and Boon would be rightly proud of.

 

I think we all knew it would come to this one day, as many of us could see the love/hate relationship from those early days and just waited for it to go the distance. Well, now we are here, and we can judge GM and 19C as one and of having the same opinion.

 

Who spun whom, who is the submissive one, who backtracked and gave up their opinions and sacrificed their right to chose? Funnily enough, I think 19C won, but then after his PM to me about GM, I think he has been casting his net for this moment for quite some time.

 

Hope you guys are happy trolling together, keep it up and good luck to the both of you.

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One thing that does make me laugh (in gallows' humour or irony rather than genuine amusement) is that all these people suddenly using the "if a customer doesn't like the product in a shop, he/she doesn't buy it, why shouldn't football be the same?" argument were almost certainly the same people who got ****ed off when Lowe quite openly called the fans "customers" and threw the "football isn't like any other business" argument at him.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

My point, from above, exactly!

 

When farmer Lowe cast his seeds some fell one side of the fence, on fertile ground. Other seeds fell the other side of the fence, on barren ground. And even more were just blown away in the breeze.

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One thing that does make me laugh (in gallows' humour or irony rather than genuine amusement) is that all these people suddenly using the "if a customer doesn't like the product in a shop, he/she doesn't buy it, why shouldn't football be the same?" argument were almost certainly the same people who got ****ed off when Lowe quite openly called the fans "customers" and threw the "football isn't like any other business" argument at him.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

The fact is that some attendees of football matches are fans (short for fanatics!) and others are more like customers (they come along when it suits them and if they consider the 'product' to be right) !

Whatever the definition, I think that it crass to blame someone for choosing not to turn up and no right thinking business person (in any walk of life) would survive with that attitude !

All IMHO of course.

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The fact is that some attendees of football matches are fans (short for fanatics!) and others are more like customers (they come along when it suits them and if they consider the 'product' to be right) !

Whatever the definition, I think that it crass to blame someone for choosing not to turn up and no right thinking business person (in any walk of life) would survive with that attitude !

All IMHO of course.

 

Thats true, but then we have to be realistic about the size of the relative elements of our fanbase (fanatics v customers) and how this will impact on revenues in L1 if we dont have instant success - and that WILL be considered by any sensible biddde when deciding whether to place a bid or not - So in that respect what last years gate showed is really that we have a hard core support of about 15000 or so. The question is will this be maintained against even lowlier oposition and especially if we struggle to begin with given teh need for further squad reductions? This evaluation anprojection will be the main focus of any plan and WILL obviously have a baring on both the level of the bid made and on the decision to proceed.

 

So had we demonstrated that our core fan base was larger eg we had shown we had 20-24k who would come what may, whovere was in teh boardroom and whatever the results, and thus shown that the expected revenues would be in a different hgher ballpark, we may well have been considered by additional potential bidders...

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Thats true, but then we have to be realistic about the size of the relative elements of our fanbase (fanatics v customers) and how this will impact on revenues in L1 if we dont have instant success - and that WILL be considered by any sensible biddde when deciding whether to place a bid or not - So in that respect what last years gate showed is really that we have a hard core support of about 15000 or so. The question is will this be maintained against even lowlier oposition and especially if we struggle to begin with given teh need for further squad reductions? This evaluation anprojection will be the main focus of any plan and WILL obviously have a baring on both the level of the bid made and on the decision to proceed.

 

So had we demonstrated that our core fan base was larger eg we had shown we had 20-24k who would come what may, whovere was in teh boardroom and whatever the results, and thus shown that the expected revenues would be in a different hgher ballpark, we may well have been considered by additional potential bidders...

 

Good point and that is how business works. P155 the customer off at your own peril. First we had Ratner then Lowe, who next? I know the Government are royally p155ing us all off at the moment, they're a little harder to budge though!

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Trousers have you got any diagrams that show the effect based on a potantial cause?

 

Wes, to me Saints is part of my family and my relationship is as supportive. If Tesco's sell me shoddy goods I'll go to Asda and have no qualms about it. If Saints are nothing but a supermarket to you then I suggest you leave football or any sport for that matter.

 

1. Potential

 

2. Your Lord and master told us we are customers, how do you expect some to react?

 

Err. . .like customers?

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Very well said Nineteen Canteen, by the way, who are you supporting today?

 

Scally, I guess I'm a bigger a fan of comedy and IMO your brother is to comedy what Buckfast is to Bordeaux.

 

Try being original in your 'humour' or is that a trait that runs in your family? Um Pahars will be flattered as I suspect even he would appreciate a more discerning fanclub of his witty musings.

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Scally, I guess I'm a bigger a fan of comedy and IMO your brother is to comedy what Buckfast is to Bordeaux.

 

Try being original in your 'humour' or is that a trait that runs in your family? Um Pahars will be flattered as I suspect even he would appreciate a more discerning fanclub of his witty musings.

 

 

I grew up with his brother and knew um as a nipper so maybe some of his famillies humour has rubbed off on me, sorry about that. I suspect you like some of these great new politically correct comics who couldn't fill a theatre for a night let alone do a summer season.

When you post some thing funny can you pm me so I'll know I have to laugh.

Cheeers John

Edited by scally
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