Weston Saint Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 (edited) Good to hear Salz is still taking an interest and awaiting an invite to bid. Surely it is obvious what this is about. It is not about the wily old fox waiting his chance. It is a Saints fan who can get some money together from a group of weathy fans to save Saints if all else fails. He is the SOS we tried to be, the port of last resort. He and the Administrator knows his group do not have enough money to compete. But if all else fails...... Edited 21 May, 2009 by Weston Saint
Badger Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 INFLUENCED.COM said: Of course, so having sat in on those meetings aware of the ratio of wages to revenue and complicit in allowing Lowe back in just can't understand why some are enthused by his interest Okay so you have reservations over the bloke.Perhaps he could have been more dynamic in his involvement,but wasn't. I don't agree that he was "complicit in allowing Lowe back in" however.The fact was Lowe,along with Wilde and their supporters as major shareholders were able to force that issue.
OldNick Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 Golac said: If he brokers a deal' date=' absolutely it will cost him nothing. He will obviously be looking to make from the deal. If you think his motivation for doing this is the love of SFC, I think you are possibly wrong. I would say ego, kudos and money in that order.[/quote']That isnt my worry, you and others blandly say he does it to waste time and is a fantascist etc but fail to accet he must have costs or his backers have them.Now to arrange all that for a bit of publicity for him is a bit of a longshot would you not agree.I would expect to get the deal to the table would have cost quite a few thousand if not 5 figures
OldNick Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 Verbal said: BUT...it would be nice if Salz and his backers actually delivered after all this time. After all, there is the small matter of the survival of the club to consider. That i would not be picky about
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 Weston Saint said: Surely it is obvious what this is about. It is not about the wily old fox waiting his chance. It is a Saints fan who can get some money together from agrop of weathy fans to save Saints if all else fails. He is the SOS we tried to be, the port of last resort. Thanks Weston, then I appreciate a contingent exists.
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 nickh said: That isnt my worry, you and others blandly say he does it to waste time and is a fantascist etc but fail to accet he must have costs or his backers have them.Now to arrange all that for a bit of publicity for him is a bit of a longshot would you not agree.I would expect to get the deal to the table would have cost quite a few thousand if not 5 figures No I wouldn't agree. The guy is a complete fantacist. Give me Salz who most definitely deals in reality any day. Have you not stopped to think that Salz might actually have told the administrator he doesn't have that much money, but "call on me if all else fails"?
OldNick Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 Weston Saint said: He is the SOS we tried to be, ......Now that is depressing and worrying.Some bad news arrived Ron?
Weston Saint Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 INFLUENCED.COM said: Thanks Weston, then I appreciate a contingent exists.Picking up from Morphs post today and what I know of the figures Salz and his team have at their disposal, it would seem so but like everything there is no certainty.
OldNick Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 Golac said: No I wouldn't agree. The guy is a complete fantacist. Give me Salz who most definitely deals in reality any day. Have you not stopped to think that Salz might actually have told the administrator he doesn't have that much money' date=' but "call on me if all else fails"?[/quote'] But ry has ben playing hardball for a couple of weeks and his delay may have cost us time which in turn has cost the creditors money if he has to fall back on Salz. As I say I will back anyone who saves the day, I wont be choosey
Frank's cousin Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 To be honest, Id rather have a realist with less cash building us slowly and with measured and pragmatic approaches than a larger group, a bit flash and potentially stretched to the financial limit...
Weston Saint Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 nickh said: Now that is depressing and worrying.Some bad news arrived Ron?Don't think so Nick. Just nice to know there is a fall back out there
dubai_phil Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 Good to know that there is a safety net. Wonder how long ago he set that up, and why wait until now to let us know? Strange trying to analyse late at night and put pieces together Not enough money - what for an uberfan expert in the City? Leaks and stories about the council His best mate bailing us out Good work guys, could have saved us a few months of hell, or were they causght by surprise that people actually made bids? Oh dear Salz v MLT wouldn't have gone down well, but as Pinnacle fade Salz rises. As I've repeatedly said, I hope there is a safety net and I hope this can be one, doesn't stop me feeling a little uneasy, especially as the BT press releases say THEY were inviting bids from day one. If Fry doesn't get his full amount then he must admin the SFC Ltd (is how I read things) which gives us minus 25, helluva risky strategy but at least we are safe for one season in L1 and may actually stay up with a good manager
bridge too far Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 Given Salz' extensive relevant knowledge, reputation and expertise, as well as his contacts, is it not possible he's been playing the long game?
Clapham Saint Posted 21 May, 2009 Posted 21 May, 2009 SFC Forever said: Question for the knowledgeable. If we end up with no deal does Fry get everything that he says he has earned? Or will he be like the rest scratching for a pittance. He'll still be paid but it will likely be significantly reduced. There will still be some cash as he will be able to raise a bit from Jacksons Farm, SMS for development value etc. I would expect that he will be most ****ed off by potential damage to his reputation with Barclays though if the apparent brinkmanship which he is currently reported to be indulging in turns out to be what scuppers a deal.
OldNick Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Clapham Saint said: He'll still be paid but it will likely be significantly reduced. There will still be some cash as he will be able to raise a bit from Jacksons Farm, SMS for development value etc. I would expect that he will be most ****ed off by potential damage to his reputation with Barclays though if the apparent brinkmanship which he is currently reported to be indulging in turns out to be what scuppers a deal.Thanks again CS. Is he well known to you? From my long distance assessment I assume he is a bit of an ego and losing credibility in the trade would be a real problem to him as if we do go out of business the media will concentrate on why
alpine_saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Clapham Saint said: He'll still be paid but it will likely be significantly reduced. There will still be some cash as he will be able to raise a bit from Jacksons Farm, SMS for development value etc. I would expect that he will be most ****ed off by potential damage to his reputation with Barclays though if the apparent brinkmanship which he is currently reported to be indulging in turns out to be what scuppers a deal. Great. We get rid of a Lowe as chairman and land a Lowe as administrator...
alpine_saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Weston Saint said: Good to hear Salz is still taking an interest and awaiting an invite to bid. Surely it is obvious what this is about. It is not about the wily old fox waiting his chance. It is a Saints fan who can get some money together from a group of weathy fans to save Saints if all else fails. He is the SOS we tried to be, the port of last resort. He and the Administrator knows his group do not have enough money to compete. But if all else fails...... Then why is Fry not accepting the sort of figures Jackson and Green are purported to be offering ??
Master Bates Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 News from radio solent. Fry has just said that talks are still ongoing and a takeover no nearer as yet
alpine_saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Master Bates said: News from radio solent. Fry has just said that talks are still ongoing and a takeover no nearer as yet F**king hell... The "Plc Years" book will need a final chapter - "Who Killed the Club in the 11th Hour - The Administrator or the Creditors ?"
SFC Forever Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Thanks for the reply Clapham. Still doesn't make me feel any better though. Surely money in the bank now is a lot better than the other choices available. A possible increase albeit slight or the folding of our club.
bungle Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: F**king hell... The "Plc Years" book will need a final chapter - "Who Killed the Club in the 11th Hour - The Administrator or the Creditors ?" I thought Fry was your hero?
Toadhall Saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: F**king hell... The "Plc Years" book will need a final chapter - "Who Killed the Club in the 11th Hour - The Administrator or the Creditors ?" Poor decision making prior to admin.
alpine_saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 bungle said: I thought Fry was your hero? Didnt read properly then, did you ? Also somewhat surprised you are capable of thinking at all...
alpine_saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Toadhall Saint said: Poor decision making prior to admin. I still contend admin was a final opportunity to put the club back on the right track, one that looks like it is being frittered away by time-wasting, ego and greed.
bungle Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: Didnt read properly then, did you ? Also somewhat surprised you are capable of thinking at all... I find all the comments about the administrator incredibly silly. From hero worship to excessive slagging off. He doesn't care about the football club, he's not paid to care about the football club, he will do what he needs to do for creditors. Also, do you really think Begbies Traynor would want their name linked with the first "major" football club to disappear?
Toadhall Saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: I still contend admin was a final opportunity to put the club back on the right track, one that looks like it is being frittered away by time-wasting, ego and greed. But it was never going to be a quick deal was it - these things take time Alps. I think even the Chelsea deal took months and that was with one of the richest men on the planet. My guess is it will go to the wire - not good for us the fans or the club in general as we need to be planning for the season to come - not handcuffed by admin rules. The 10 point penalty is bad enough but you can put another 10 on that for poor preperation.
Saint 76er Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Weston Saint said: Don't think so Nick. Just nice to know there is a fall back out there Yes Ron, but if/when we do get playing again it would also be nice to know there a full back out there. God knows we need one! (See how I reverted this thread back to football matters just for a moment)
alpine_saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Toadhall Saint said: But it was never going to be a quick deal was it - these things take time Alps. I think even the Chelsea deal took months and that was with one of the richest men on the planet. My guess is it will go to the wire - not good for us the fans or the club in general as we need to be planning for the season to come - not handcuffed by admin rules. The 10 point penalty is bad enough but you can put another 10 on that for poor preperation. The longer the deal takes, the greater the chance we will be back here within 2 years. We cannot sell season tickets We cannot get a sqaud sorted out We cannot plan a pre-season And we might end up starting on -25 instead of -10..
Master Bates Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: We cannot sell season tickets We cannot get a sqaud sorted out We cannot plan a pre-season And we might end up starting on -25 instead of -10.. To which tune should this be sung too?
alpine_saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Master Bates said: To which tune should this be sung too? That REM one..
OldNick Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 bungle said: I find all the comments about the administrator incredibly silly. From hero worship to excessive slagging off. He doesn't care about the football club, he's not paid to care about the football club, he will do what he needs to do for creditors. Also, do you really think Begbies Traynor would want their name linked with the first "major" football club to disappear? that is true, but it is fair to point out that if he messes around too long and the buyers walk away we all are in the mire. People in all walks of life are edgy and reading on other pages it looks like 2 of the Pinnalce buyers got cold feet the longer this goes on the greqater chance of others doing the same
Master Bates Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: That REM one.. Makes the song quite deep, especially when sung extra slow, i'm off to join the cue at the Itchen Bridge again.....
Weston Saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: Then why is Fry not accepting the sort of figures Jackson and Green are purported to be offering ??Who says he is not? This is not a simple I will pay you this for that.
LestWeForget Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Master Bates said: Makes the song quite deep, especially when sung extra slow, i'm off to join the cue at the Itchen Bridge again..... [PEDANT MODE] Off for a game of snooker then? [/PEDANT MODE]
Master Bates Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 LestWeForget said: [PEDANT MODE] Off for a game of snooker then? [/PEDANT MODE] Very ghey, pool's better (for me due to short sightedness)
LestWeForget Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Master Bates said: Very ghey, pool's better (for me due to short sightedness) Ditto! LOL
Frank's cousin Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Anyone who believes Fry is not doing his job is either ignorant or naive - His job and obligation is the best deal for the creditors NOT for SFC - I suggest that there are not too many people on here (myself included) who understand the complexities and workings of administration. Secondly dont forget the money men - Even if it were someone with limitless resources they would still be looking to only pay what was necessary not more, and thus the negotiations take time. In our situation we have moneymen backers (speculation here) that dont ahve limitless funds and are perhaps nervous about making that final committment despite what they see as an opportunity - an opportunity that is long term and with further investment required if they are ever to see a return.
RedAndWhite91 Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 What has happened regarding this amazing 11th hour overseas group that has got all the money we will ever need?
krissyboy31 Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 RedAndWhite91 said: What has happened regarding this amazing 11th hour overseas group that has got all the money we will ever need? Mmmm! The cynic in me thinks this was invented and leaked by BT to try and get the other two parties to up their offers and get their @rses in to gear.
Clapham Saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Frank said: Anyone who believes Fry is not doing his job is either ignorant or naive - His job and obligation is the best deal for the creditors NOT for SFC - I suggest that there are not too many people on here (myself included) who understand the complexities and workings of administration. Secondly dont forget the money men - Even if it were someone with limitless resources they would still be looking to only pay what was necessary not more' date=' and thus the negotiations take time. In our situation we have moneymen backers (speculation here) that dont ahve limitless funds and are perhaps nervous about making that final committment despite what they see as an opportunity - an opportunity that is long term and with further investment required if they are ever to see a return.[/quote'] 90% is of big, high profile deals go to the wire when buying/selling from Admin. Just the nature of the beast with everybody trying to get the best deal for themselves. Eventually somebody has to blink but anybody with any experience is going to go a bl**dy long time before they do.
Clapham Saint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 nickh said: Thanks again CS. Is he well known to you? From my long distance assessment I assume he is a bit of an ego and losing credibility in the trade would be a real problem to him as if we do go out of business the media will concentrate on why I know many of the people involved relatively well (professionally speaking rather than personally) but although I've met Fry I wouldn't claim to know him well. I hope you won't take it the wrong way but for obvious reasons I'd rather shy away from specifics on idividuals either positive or negative.
dubai_phil Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Clapham Saint said: 90% is of big, high profile deals go to the wire when buying/selling from Admin. Just the nature of the beast with everybody trying to get the best deal for themselves. Eventually somebody has to blink but anybody with any experience is going to go a bl**dy long time before they do. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: would about sum it up then. ref some other comments, as I mentioned, I stayed with friends who know Fry. The cost of failing to save the club for the fans/creditors will be an important factor, but more so would be what he perceives to be the damage to his career, lifestyle and personal standing in the industry. While that may be a concern to some, it is also a useful piece of intelligence for those tasked with not blinking, and a strong motivation for him to actually go the extra mile to achieve a satisfactory outcome. The other point, this is not about the money alone. Simply put, as Clapham tried so well so often, there is a process in this, each step along the way is fraught with difficulties. Even before a consortium can finally pay over any money, armies of lawyers and accountants have to be involved, as you pass each step of the process, so the workload and the cost increases. Reaching a final stage of Due Dilligence to ensure that the data supplied by the Administrator is accurate will have run up a lot of costs. The final 10 days or so of DD before any completion could incur anything up towards 100k in costs and will have highly paid people working overtime in a rush to get things done. Getting each part to come together and to allocate the time, money and resources at each step is another round of meetings and calls. You obviously set budgets at the beginning and "a roadmap" with "key performance indicators" but then even when one part is agreed you still have to place contracts with the lawyers etc who have to be able to drop other critical work in order to meet the timelines involved.
stinhk Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Is there a sustainable business model for football clubs outside of the PL given the way that football is run these days - indeed is there even one for those inside the PL? Do other clubs run at break-even or in profit without sugar-daddies or the good will of their creditors? I wonder what needs to happen at SFC for us to be self-sufficient? RL took on a program of cost-cutting in order to balance the books and it seems it was still not enough. Yes errors were made along the way but I want to look forward. There is a lot of talk here about how much money potential buyers would have left in their coffers to run the club on an ongoing basis - i wonder just what that really means. What is required to make SFC a going-concern again?
egreog Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 I fear it will be some considerable time before the fat lady is clearing her throat, and the final result is or is not acheived..........as many have stated Administration encourages blatant brinksmanship, and it will either happen very quickly or be all over equally quickly should the offers not meet requirements...........I wouldn't hold your breath!!
OldNick Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Clapham Saint said: I know many of the people involved relatively well (professionally speaking rather than personally) but although I've met Fry I wouldn't claim to know him well. I hope you won't take it the wrong way but for obvious reasons I'd rather shy away from specifics on idividuals either positive or negative. I fully understand your reluctance not to personally comment. Thanks for the rest
sandwichsaint Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 I think most people accept this will go 'to the wire', it's just that most people are very concerned about where (when) exactly 'the wire' is .... My understanding is that the holding company is in admin and the football club is still trading... Therefore is there any circumstance in which at the moment we won't be entered into the L1 fixture list? Do we still have our 'golden share'? Is our participation in L1 dependent on some sort of 'bond/deposit' or 'assurances' (from who? from Fry? from 'the club'? ...) Again only my understanding but teams have played through whole seasons while technically in admin ... Presumably in terms of playing on through admin we are beyond the point where this is possible; LC may have paid one wage bill, presumably he won't be able to do this too many times. So when exaxctly does Fry have to accept what ever is on the table if we are to play in Div 1 next season? The reality of course is that he doesn't ... if the best deal (eg liquidation) lies somewhere beyond 'the wire' that is the one he will persue... So to re-phrase the question ... when is the latest a buyer can come to an agreement with Fry that ensures we start in Div 1 next season?
Lets B Avenue Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: That REM one.. "It's the End of the World as we know it"?
PokingFun Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 alpine_saint said: That REM one.. Shiny, Happy People??
MusicMan Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 Del Amitri Nothing Ever Happens Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song And we all sing along like before
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 22 May, 2009 Posted 22 May, 2009 MusicMan said: Del Amitri Nothing Ever Happens Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song And we all sing along like before And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow.
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