Rasiak Out With Broken Shoulder

[Gemmel]

Sorry if this is old news, just back from holiday and cant see it anywhere.

 

Does this mean they can send him back to us?

[Scoobysaint]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/low/football/teams/w/watford/7586005.stm

 

Just hope they keep him and keep paying him!!!

[Hatch]

Shouldn't make any difference to his movement

[s0108787]

as he'll only be out for 4-6 weeks i wouldn't think they'd bother.

[Scummer]

Don't think they would be allowed to send him back.

[nato88]

I think he is their problem. Sucks for Gregor though...

[Big_Bald_Si]

They can keep him!

[Iowsaintsfan]

keep paying for him!

[Saint_clark]

Hopefully they have to/will choose to keep him, as we don't really want to be paying his wages AND his treatment costs.

[Toadhall Saint]

biggest prob is that he won't be in the shop window

[Give it to Ron]

biggest prob is that he won't be in the shop window

 

He has about as much movement as a shop window dummie

[a1ex2001]

He has about as much movement as a shop window dummie

 

and like it or not one of the best goal scoring records of any striker in the league, i would much rather he was playing and scoring to improve the chances of someone offering us decent cash for him. I'd actually rather he was still playing upfront for us but I'm pretty much on my own there!

[sotonist]

as it's a season long loan i would assume that the contract is not breakable and that the money may even have been paid up front, or at least agreed as a lump sum rather than them paying his wages week by week.

 

i think we're safe.

[JustinR]

and like it or not one of the best goal scoring records of any striker in the league, i would much rather he was playing and scoring to improve the chances of someone offering us decent cash for him. I'd actually rather he was still playing upfront for us but I'm pretty much on my own there!

 

no your not mate, i'm with you, short memories all round I reckon

[Give it to Ron]

and like it or not one of the best goal scoring records of any striker in the league, i would much rather he was playing and scoring to improve the chances of someone offering us decent cash for him. I'd actually rather he was still playing upfront for us but I'm pretty much on my own there!

 

I partly agree with you..but there is also the train of thought that says a moving forward also creates goals for his partner and others so you could have 2 or 3 scoring?

I rate Rasiak in this league but he has to have the right service and play to a certain formation. I watched him the other day on TV he hardly had a kick and his movement non existent.

[eurosaint]

Rasiak out with broken shoulder !

 

What happened? Did the chip fall off ?

[Arizona]

And so the bashing of one of the most prolific strikers in the league continues. But hey, who needs goals when you can run around a lot.

[pedg]

If he is on a season long loan can we actually sell him before the end of the season? If not then not so much of a problem if he is out of the shop window for a while I would guess.

[saintkiptanui]

I'd rather have any of our players than that useless statue, yes he scored goals but if he didn't we may as well played with 10 men, look at our movement now, different league.

[pedg]

And so the bashing of one of the most prolific strikers in the league continues. But hey, who needs goals when you can run around a lot.

 

In the right set up he is a good striker, no argument about that but in the current setup at saints he would be like a duck out of water.

[labibs]

As above, I think as it's a season long loan they'll definitely keep him. If he's only out for 4 weeks (with an international break in the middle), it's hardly a major injury.

 

I watched the highlights of Watford v Forest on the Championship and couldn't believe how immobile he looked! However it appears he may have been playing with the injury then, which may explain things.

 

I rate Rasiak and feel that if you play to his strengths, he will come up with the goods in this division. However, our new formation under JP, requires a lot of movement from the forwards, which isn't really Greg's strong point. Due to that, it was right to send him out on loan, hopefully with a view to someone coming in for him permanently.

[Give it to Ron]

And so the bashing of one of the most prolific strikers in the league continues. But hey, who needs goals when you can run around a lot.

 

One of the most prolific...is that not going a tad over the top a decent strike rate but prolific?

Who said we wanted him to run around a lot...just a bit might of helped!

As I said I rate him highly in this league but in our set up at the moment he is not the right sort of player. If we needed a plan B in a game then he would be good on the bench but we don't have the luxury of affording his massive wages

to keep it warm.

[Toadhall Saint]

Let's be honest he is a good goal scorer but not the greatest in his movement - the way we are playing at the mo it's all about pass and move which by itself creates space for others. I'm with Ron on this one. If we changed our style back then he could be of use but I honestly can't see that happening.

[funkymojo44]

He has about as much movement as a shop window dummie

 

Yeah a shop window dummie that scores 20+ goals a season when given the chance! I think he will be sent back to be honest, there must be a clause that allows the parent club to take him back for treatment.

 

Only problem is that the wages would come back to us but a fit Rasiak is another option i would love to have in our team, not a CCC rival.

[saintkiptanui]

Yeah a shop window dummie that scores 20+ goals a season when given the chance! I think he will be sent back to be honest, there must be a clause that allows the parent club to take him back for treatment.

 

Only problem is that the wages would come back to us but a fit Rasiak is another option i would love to have in our team, not a CCC rival.

He doesn't fit into our new team, why can't people understand this?? would you rather we went back to playing like we did last year?????? arggggghhhhhh!!!

[funkymojo44]

He doesn't fit into our new team, why can't people understand this?? would you rather we went back to playing like we did last year?????? arggggghhhhhh!!!

 

I can understand concerns how he might fit in to our new playing style, but he hasn't been given the chance yet! Yes he lacks speed but its another option should he come back. All im saying is that he is a proven scorer at CCC level for us and could be an asset for us long term.

[Give it to Ron]

Yeah a shop window dummie that scores 20+ goals a season when given the chance! I think he will be sent back to be honest, there must be a clause that allows the parent club to take him back for treatment.

 

Only problem is that the wages would come back to us but a fit Rasiak is another option i would love to have in our team, not a CCC rival.

 

Jeesh another one that cant read!! I SAID I RATE HIM IN THIS LEAGUE BUT HE DOES NOT SUIT OUR STYLE OF PLAY THIS SEASON and cannot afford to put him on the bench.

Look at his stats on Wiki he managed 20+ goals for one season not prolific but a good strike rate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Rasiak#Derby_County

[pedg]

I can understand concerns how he might fit in to our new playing style, but he hasn't been given the chance yet!

 

I thought he played in some of the preseason matches and did not appear to get the hang of it from reports?

[Give it to Ron]

I thought he played in some of the preseason matches and did not appear to get the hang of it from reports?

 

He did and again in training....but lets not ignore the fact that it was his wages that were probably one of the deciding factors as well.

[saintwarwick]

I can understand concerns how he might fit in to our new playing style, but he hasn't been given the chance yet! Yes he lacks speed but its another option should he come back. All im saying is that he is a proven scorer at CCC level for us and could be an asset for us long term.

 

I agree with the other posters in that he would not suit our style of play. I'm sure JP agrees with this.

[Arizona]

One of the most prolific...is that not going a tad over the top a decent strike rate but prolific?

Who said we wanted him to run around a lot...just a bit might of helped!

As I said I rate him highly in this league but in our set up at the moment he is not the right sort of player. If we needed a plan B in a game then he would be good on the bench but we don't have the luxury of affording his massive wages

to keep it warm.

 

Prolific is defined as producing in a high quantity. Pace isn't his strong point, but some people are under the illusion that 20 goal a seasn strikers who run like Brett Ormerod are ten a penny in CCC. If you can name 5 I will be impressed, but I can't think of any.

 

I think it is also wrong to write him off as saying not suited to this system. I don't see why not. He may not move much himself, but if the likes of Holmes, Lallana, Gillett and Schneiderlin were doing work and creating spaces for him, I think he could score a few. All he really needs is half decent supply and he WILL score goals.

[Give it to Ron]

James Beattie works hard...well he did for us in the Prem.

Kevin Lisbie has worked his socks off when I have seen him play - impressed me at Charlton

Jamie Cureton work horse and good goal scorer

Ageyemang?? Always runs the lines well and up there in the goal charts most seasons..

I was going to add Phillips as well but cant bring myself to.

Will 4 do?

[Arizona]

James Beattie works hard...well he did for us in the Prem.

Kevin Lisbie has worked his socks off when I have seen him play - impressed me at Charlton

Jamie Cureton work horse and good goal scorer

Ageyemang?? Always runs the lines well and up there in the goal charts most seasons..

I was going to add Phillips as well but cant bring myself to.

Will 4 do?

 

Cureton had one prolific spell at Colchester a couple of season back. Other than that he made double figures just once since in 2002, when he was playing in League one.

 

Lisbie also had one decent season in the CCC with Colchester. He scored 17 goals in 12 years and 155 appearances for Charlton. If you include the goals he scored on loan, he amassed a grand total of 23 in those 12 years. I wouldn't call failing to reach the 2 goal a season barrier prolific.

 

Agyemang. 21 goals in 123 appearances and 4 years for Preston. Just over 5 a season. 20 in 120 and 6 years at Wimbledon. Hasn't reached double figures for any other club.

 

Beattie, yes I'll give you that one, although he is hardly a workaholic and cost more than double what we paid for a marginally younger Rasiak.

[saintkiptanui]

I don't think proper thicko's should be mods, I vote arizona out.

[Arizona]

I don't think proper thicko's should be mods, I vote arizona out.

 

Since I am thick, could you explain this too me, or is it just that I disagree with your oppinion?

[Rod Le Shearer]

 

I think it is also wrong to write him off as saying not suited to this system. I don't see why not. He may not move much himself, but if the likes of Holmes, Lallana, Gillett and Schneiderlin were doing work and creating spaces for him, I think he could score a few. All he really needs is half decent supply and he WILL score goals.

 

 

so you are basically saying that in a team (our team) with 10 outfield players, only 9 are supposed to be running and pressuring..Brilliant.

you are aware of the fact that our whole defensive plan is dependant of EVERYONE running,and that playing a man who doesnt need to run,effectively means play with a one man disadvantage every match..?

 

Rasiak is to lazy to run for purposes of defending,which also happens to be our greatest attacking weapon-pressuring & stealing the ball in good areas !

unless he could prove at another club that his workrate has improved 50 percent,I dont want him anywhere near the first team nowadays. well,except for corners maybe-just a shame floating subs arent allowed in this league !

[saintkiptanui]

Since I am thick, could you explain this too me, or is it just that I disagree with your oppinion?

One p in opinion, I rest my case:D

Arizona I understand that you haven't seen saints play this season, when you do you will realise rasiak does not fit.

[Arizona]

so you are basically saying that in a team (our team) with 10 outfield players, only 9 are supposed to be running and pressuring..Brilliant.

you are aware of the fact that our whole defensive plan is dependant of EVERYONE running,and that playing a man who doesnt need to run,effectively means play with a one man disadvantage every match..?

 

Rasiak is to lazy to run for purposes of defending,which also happens to be our greatest attacking weapon-pressuring & stealing the ball in good areas !

unless he could prove at another club that his workrate has improved 50 percent,I dont want him anywhere near the first team nowadays. well,except for corners maybe-just a shame floating subs arent allowed in this league !

 

No, I am not saying Rasiak is exempt from any effort, however by your logic, he shouldn't play in any team anywhere because unless you have 11 men behind the ball all the time, you can't defend.

 

What about MLT. I don't remember may people telling me he should be dropped because we can't defend. I also don't remember many people saying we should drop Rasiak in Christmas 2006 when he was the leagues 2nd top scorer.

 

One p in opinion, I rest my case:D

Arizona I understand that you haven't seen saints play this season, when you do you will realise rasiak does not fit.

 

When Rasiak plays up front in this team and fails to score and we start conceding a lot more than we were before, THEN I will see that he doesn't fit.

 

Capital letters at the start of "Saints" and "Rasiak" btw.

[Bailey]

I doubt Watford would be able to send him back to us as I would assume there is no clause in the deal enabling them to do so.

 

However, it's not the most serious injury in the world and he'll be back soon. I fully expect them to keep him in truth.

 

One problem though, is that he's not in the shop window for any potential clubs that are interested in signing him!

[Andy_Porter]

Comparing Rasiak with Matt Le Tissier.... lol.

[SoccerMom]

OK, I'm sure there will be plenty out there all too ready to correct me if they think me wrong, but does anyone else get the impression that why many appear to think that Rasiak "doesn't fit the system" is not just because he is slow, but also because he appears a) selfish and b) more than a tad disinterested on and off the pitch. So far our goals this season have come from McGoldrick, Holmes, Lallana and Perry, all of whom are involved in creative play or (in Perry's case) defending. Rasiak is a bit of a one-trick pony, and it may be that some fans feel our best chance of goals will come from those who are involved in the game all the time, rather than someone who is a bystander waiting for service.

 

I'm not wholly convinced either way - there were times on Tuesday night when I really wanted Greg in there helping to defend the corners, which was the one other situation (apart from scoring) where he has proved his worth. IMHO.

 

But if there were another striker with more pace - say, Pekhart if he proves OK, or DMG, or even Saga (who has a worse finishing problem than DMG...) - that could come up with Rasiak's success rate AND be more involved in the open play, I'd go for him.

Edited 28 August, 2008 by SoccerMom
poor English

[Rod Le Shearer]

No, I am not saying Rasiak is exempt from any effort, however by your logic, he shouldn't play in any team anywhere because unless you have 11 men behind the ball all the time, you can't defend.

 

What about MLT. I don't remember may people telling me he should be dropped because we can't defend. I also don't remember many people saying we should drop Rasiak in Christmas 2006 when he was the leagues 2nd top scorer.

 

It`s about the type of football a team plays. if you need the option to have a big lump upfront to hoof the ball to,then the striker wouldnt need to run around as much.

but our new philosophy is that we shouldnt need to have that option. sure,it would be great at times-but overall JP seems to prefer having other advantages,than this one.

 

other teams have other philosphies,and so did we before. hence why Rasiak played well here earlier,and could still do so in another team. this is part of the reason why also SJ has a hard time getting in to the team. his main asset is to keep hold off the ball,whereas JP wants players that run into spaces,pressurizing and move behind the defenders..etcetc

 

MLT was another case,half of the game he was allready behind the ball when the opposition had it. allthough not running,he was in a certain area (zone) and occupied that space. as a non-running frontman,you dont do that. Le Tiss(and the team) also was dependant on him being near other midfielders,so they could find him the very instant they robbed the ball of the other team. however,I dont think comparing Rasiak to MLT is very valid in any concieveable context,but there you go.

 

last post off the day,Rod out !

[saintwarwick]

Prolific is defined as producing in a high quantity. Pace isn't his strong point, but some people are under the illusion that 20 goal a seasn strikers who run like Brett Ormerod are ten a penny in CCC. If you can name 5 I will be impressed, but I can't think of any.

 

I think it is also wrong to write him off as saying not suited to this system. I don't see why not. He may not move much himself, but if the likes of Holmes, Lallana, Gillett and Schneiderlin were doing work and creating spaces for him, I think he could score a few. All he really needs is half decent supply and he WILL score goals.

 

Well John has a higher strike rate so I would rather stick with him for now but if Rasiak did come back and JP played him I would respect whatever decision he makes. However I don't see that will happen.

[1965onwards]

What those who champion Raziak fail to address,is the detrimental effect on team play and the effectiveness of the team of his laziness and lack of movement.

 

You cannot isolate one aspect of a players performance,you have to assess the whole package.

 

While he may score 20 goals a season,his style of play may result in the team scoring 20 goals a season fewer than if we employed a more energetic and mobile striker,whereby his contribution is nullified.

[saintkiptanui]

What those who champion Raziak fail to address,is the detrimental effect on team play and the effectiveness of the team of his laziness and lack of movement.

 

You cannot isolate one aspect of a players performance,you have to assess the whole package.

 

While he may score 20 goals a season,his style of play may result in the team scoring 20 goals a season fewer than if we employed a more energetic and mobile striker,whereby his contribution is nullified.

That is what I have been trying to say, well said that man.

[Arizona]

Comparing Rasiak with Matt Le Tissier.... lol.

 

I se you've just taken the names Le Tissier and Rasiak and completely ignored the whole point of my argument.

 

I am not comparing their ability, although a couple of you seem to be implying that to discredit my argument. More their workrate. I rate MLT with Gazza, Cantona et al. amongst the Premierships all time greats, however he was hardly energetic.

 

Well John has a higher strike rate so I would rather stick with him for now but if Rasiak did come back and JP played him I would respect whatever decision he makes. However I don't see that will happen.

 

John has a higher strike rate, but just cannot play on his own. Although similar to Rasiak, this is one difference between them. I can't put my finger on why, it just is.

 

What those who champion Raziak fail to address,is the detrimental effect on team play and the effectiveness of the team of his laziness and lack of movement.

 

You cannot isolate one aspect of a players performance,you have to assess the whole package.

 

While he may score 20 goals a season,his style of play may result in the team scoring 20 goals a season fewer than if we employed a more energetic and mobile striker,whereby his contribution is nullified.

 

I don't think the other team members would score any fewer with Rasiak in the team than DMG, John, BWP or anyone else. Remember the cup final season. Ormerod and Beattie, two hard working strikers. I don't think the rest of the team managed 20 goals between them. Anders got about 3, so did Fernandes and Tessem. Oakley, Mazza and Killer got a couple each. That doesn't compare any differently to when when had Rasiak up front in the playoff season and Skacel, Viafara and Surman got 4 each, II and Baird got a couple, Licka, Wright and Bale (from open play) got one each.

[saintkiptanui]

Just leave it and go to bed.

[Window Cleaner]

One of the most prolific...is that not going a tad over the top a decent strike rate but prolific?

Who said we wanted him to run around a lot...just a bit might of helped!

As I said I rate him highly in this league but in our set up at the moment he is not the right sort of player. If we needed a plan B in a game then he would be good on the bench but we don't have the luxury of affording his massive wages

to keep it warm.

 

 

Arizona thinks Rasiak and Saga are the quintessence of footballing accomplishment-I am sure he has his reasons. Seems to be travelling around a lot does Arizona, Holland then what I assume to be Malmedy, must see a few games with all that....

[saintwarwick]

What those who champion Raziak fail to address,is the detrimental effect on team play and the effectiveness of the team of his laziness and lack of movement.

 

You cannot isolate one aspect of a players performance,you have to assess the whole package.

 

While he may score 20 goals a season,his style of play may result in the team scoring 20 goals a season fewer than if we employed a more energetic and mobile striker,whereby his contribution is nullified.

 

Seem to remember our play off season when we scored for fun with Rasiak scoring 20, Jones scoring 15, BWP scoring 11 and Saganowski scoring 10 goals. Four different type of strikers but all chipping in with plenty of goals so contribution is a big factor and not nullified. Whilst I don't think he will suit our style of football, to say he could cost us 20 goals a season is laughable at best.

[saintwarwick]

Arizona thinks Rasiak and Saga are the quintessence of footballing accomplishment-I am sure he has his reasons. Seems to be travelling around a lot does Arizona, Holland then what I assume to be Malmedy, must see a few games with all that....

 

It's all to do with his job and nothing else. When he is home he gets to as many games as possible.