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hamster

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I hate racism and would not vote BNP. It is strange that Stalin's regime killed more people than Hitlers, but is always pushed under the carpet. Both extremes are unpalettable IMO but I do think people are starting to feel marginalised and may run to them.I dont live in an area where they have the people called to prayer on loadspeakers. That would upset me if I lived near such things and perhaps push me to more extreme politics

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I hate racism and would not vote BNP. It is strange that Stalin's regime killed more people than Hitlers, but is always pushed under the carpet. Both extremes are unpalettable IMO but I do think people are starting to feel marginalised and may run to them.I dont live in an area where they have the people called to prayer on loadspeakers. That would upset me if I lived near such things and perhaps push me to more extreme politics

 

It's also strange how we hear little of the British concentration camps in post war Kenya. The BNP are often compared to NAZI's but i don't agree with this. Yes they are nationalist and yes they are socialist, but the 1940's was then and this is now.

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I hate racism and would not vote BNP. It is strange that Stalin's regime killed more people than Hitlers, but is always pushed under the carpet. Both extremes are unpalettable IMO but I do think people are starting to feel marginalised and may run to them.I dont live in an area where they have the people called to prayer on loadspeakers. That would upset me if I lived near such things and perhaps push me to more extreme politics

Do you live in an area where the church bells ring out for services, weddings, and funerals ?

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It's also strange how we hear little of the British concentration camps in post war Kenya. The BNP are often compared to NAZI's but i don't agree with this. Yes they are nationalist and yes they are socialist, but the 1940's was then and this is now.

 

Nationalist Socialist = Facist

 

It's quite ironic really they have a spitfire on their leaflet(which I read, screwed up and put in the bin :)), considering it was what helped defeat Hitler which is effectively of the same ideology as them.

 

Also, they are using the Queens party as a publicity stunt. If you got invited to a party like that, who would you invite? Your wife/husband or your boss?

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Nationalist Socialist = Facist

 

It's quite ironic really they have a spitfire on their leaflet(which I read, screwed up and put in the bin :)), considering it was what helped defeat Hitler which is effectively of the same ideology as them.

 

Also, they are using the Queens party as a publicity stunt. If you got invited to a party like that, who would you invite? Your wife/husband or your boss?

 

=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>

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A moving video that certainly makes you think. Very sad.:(

It's only sad because it reinforces the stereotypical, rabidly WASP, perception of Islam, and because sufficient people accept this imagery as truly representative of the entirity of the Muslim faith to make it viable as a political doctrine.

It also insults the memory of the war dead - remember those that died in the European theatre died fighting fellow Europeans, and those in the far east were fighting the Japanese;in neither theatre were they fighting Muslims. Indeed, there were plenty of Muslims soldiers, from both the British and French colonies, who fought and died to defeat Nazism & the Japanese.

 

However, to paraphrase; Whilst I completely disagree with what you say, I will defend your right to say it.

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If there are really people out there willing to vote BNP because they are "disillusioned" with the other parties we really are f*cked as a country.

 

Erm ....Time to open your eyes a little ....Then you'll see you have been "****ed as a country" for a few years now. The damage has already been done. Mainly while most peeps were either sleeping or licking Blair's arse......'Fraid its going to take more than few years to recover from 3 terms of 'Orwellian' type Socialism....Hell, you now even have a whole new generation who know no different.....Raised on Government control and dependency......Not much hope really

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I wasn't too happy to see a BNP leaflet in my letterbox. Had I seen the git who delivered it I would have told him a few things. Abhorrent.

 

i did that once. i opened the door and said that i felt it insulting to my intelligence that he would put a bnp leaflet through my letterbox. he looked terrified and promised not to do it again.

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Erm ....Time to open your eyes a little ....Then you'll see you have been "****ed as a country" for a few years now. The damage has already been done. Mainly while most peeps were either sleeping or licking Blair's arse......'Fraid its going to take more than few years to recover from 3 terms of 'Orwellian' type Socialism....Hell, you now even have a whole new generation who know no different.....Raised on Government control and dependency......Not much hope really

 

And how will voting BNP help exactly?

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Erm ....Time to open your eyes a little ....Then you'll see you have been "****ed as a country" for a few years now. The damage has already been done. Mainly while most peeps were either sleeping or licking Blair's arse......'Fraid its going to take more than few years to recover from 3 terms of 'Orwellian' type Socialism....Hell, you now even have a whole new generation who know no different.....Raised on Government control and dependency......Not much hope really

 

3 terms of "Orwellian type socialism"? Care to provide any examples of that? Closest we got was when Thatcher got the police and armed forces to infiltrate the miners strike. That was the closest we got to a police state, since then we've had career politicians pandering to the lowest common denominator and pretending to be all things to all people.

 

BTW there is hope - people like you have left.

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3 terms of "Orwellian type socialism"? Care to provide any examples of that? Closest we got was when Thatcher got the police and armed forces to infiltrate the miners strike. That was the closest we got to a police state, since then we've had career politicians pandering to the lowest common denominator and pretending to be all things to all people.

 

BTW there is hope - people like you have left.

 

Exactly.

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You go in any conservative or Labour club and you'll find many people who agree with BNP policies, yet publicly criticise them.

I went into a Conservative Club, and they all stood to attention when "Land of Hope & Glory" was played ! ( true story ) :confused:

 

( Naturally, I stayed firmly in my seat ) :D

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I also find it highly ironic and distrurbing that the BNP seem to be going after (as a secondary focus compared to the 'British jobs for British workers' bull****) the OAP vote (and also quite worried that the OAPs are buying into it) when the following has happnened:

 

OAPs in this country either would have fought, or had parents/siblings etc, that fought AGAINST exactly the same fascist policies that the BNP have in their manifesto.

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Erm ....Time to open your eyes a little ....Then you'll see you have been "****ed as a country" for a few years now. The damage has already been done. Mainly while most peeps were either sleeping or licking Blair's arse......'Fraid its going to take more than few years to recover from 3 terms of 'Orwellian' type Socialism....Hell, you now even have a whole new generation who know no different.....Raised on Government control and dependency......Not much hope really

 

I bet you are one of these slack jawed hicks who think Obama is turning the USA into the USSR? Honestly, people with your political persuasion don't deserve to take part in the democractic process. All your beliefs do is spread hate, prejudice and discrimination and these have no place in the 21st century.

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BNP scum mount their hateful challenge to be elected MEPs in June 4 Euro election 70 years after Britain went to war to keep the Nazis out. Why the **** would anyone allow them to represent us in Europe?????????????????????

 

Exactly, it is frightening. What is more frightening is some of the posts you find on the englandfans forum - people on their would be more than happy to see the BNP scum elected.

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OAPs in this country either would have fought, or had parents/siblings etc, that fought AGAINST exactly the same fascist policies that the BNP have in their manifesto.

 

I don't believe that our grandparents did go to war to fight fascism, i believe they went to war to defend their homeland. At this time Britian was an imperial super power where empire was something to be proud of. Our grandparents were certainly NOT left wing in their views.

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I don't believe that our grandparents did go to war to fight fascism, i believe they went to war to defend their homeland. At this time Britian was an imperial super power where empire was something to be proud of. Our grandparents were certainly NOT left wing in their views.

I believe you are wrong !

 

The chain of events went something like this....

 

Germany annexes Austria, sets it's sights on the Sudetenland, is warned off but invades anyway. Britain & France tell the Germans to stop throwing their weight around or else - Germany ignores the threat and takes control of the rest of Czechoslovakia. Britain & France then say "no more, or else', which yet again the Germans ignore, and they invade Poland on Sept 1st 1939. Yet again we tell them to get out or else, they call our bluff, and we declare war on Sept 3rd.

Therefore, I think, we went to war to defend the liberty of the Poles, from the fascists !.

 

As for 'left wing views', Ramsey MacDonald had been Labour Prime Minister twice in the 1920's, and the last election before the war returned a Labour opposition of 154 members under Clem Atlee, with a total of 7,984,988 votes ( as compared to 10,025,083 for the Conservatives ) , so certainly a substantial minority must have been of that persuasion. :cool:

Edited by badgerx16
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I believe you are wrong !

 

The chain of events went something like this....

 

Germany annexes Austria, sets it's sights on the Sudetenland, is warned off but invades anyway. Britain & France tell the Germans to stop throwing their weight around or else - Germany ignores the threat and takes control of the rest of Czechoslovakia. Britain & France then say "no more, or else', which yet again the Germans ignore, and they invade Poland on Sept 1st 1939. Yet again we tell them to get out or else, they call our bluff, and we declare war on Sept 3rd.

Therefore, I think, we went to war to defend the liberty of the Poles, from the fascists !.

 

As for 'left wing views', Ramsey MacDonald had been Labour Prime Minister twice in the 1920's, and the last election before the war returned a Labour opposition of 154 members under Clem Atlee, with a total of 7,984,988 votes ( as compared to 10,025,083 for the Conservatives ) , so certainly a substantial minority must have been of that persuasion. :cool:

 

Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you haven't got a clue what you're on about. Up until recently Labour wasn't left wing in the Daily Mirror sense and for that matter the Daily Mirror wasn't left wing in it's current guise until they saw a market to sell their papers that none of the others catered for. Labour was the party for the working class, the Tories were the party for the middle/upper classes. All this left/right/middle ground talk was completely irrelevent to party politics at this period in our history. It's for this reason that the largest %age of BNP voters comes from ex Labour voters. They aren't left wing, they're right wing working class - as were the vast majority of those who fought for GB in WW2.

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Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you haven't got a clue what you're on about. Up until recently Labour wasn't left wing in the Daily Mirror sense and for that matter the Daily Mirror wasn't left wing in it's current guise until they saw a market to sell their papers that none of the others catered for. Labour was the party for the working class,

B0ll0x !!!

Keir Hardie was a SOCIALIST and founder of the Independent Labour Party, who in 1900 formed the Labour Representation Committee, from a mix of Trade Union and Socialist groups, because he felt the Liberals did not really represent the working class. in 1906 this group changed it's name to The Labour Party. In 1908 he was replaced as leader by another SOCIALIST and trade unionist, Arthur Henderson.

Ramsey MacDonald, the first Labour PM,was also a SOCIALIST, having been a member of the Socialist Union, and then the ILP in the later part of the 19th century, indeed he stood as their candidate in Southampton in 1895.

Clem Atlee, who joined the ILP in 1908 when he decided that SOCIALISM was the only way to truly help fight poverty, was the prime mover behind the concepts of 'social democracy' and the Welfare State.

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B0ll0x !!!

Keir Hardie was a SOCIALIST and founder of the Independent Labour Party, who in 1900 formed the Labour Representation Committee, from a mix of Trade Union and Socialist groups, because he felt the Liberals did not really represent the working class. in 1906 this group changed it's name to The Labour Party. In 1908 he was replaced as leader by another SOCIALIST and trade unionist, Arthur Henderson.

Ramsey MacDonald, the first Labour PM,was also a SOCIALIST, having been a member of the Socialist Union, and then the ILP in the later part of the 19th century, indeed he stood as their candidate in Southampton in 1895.

Clem Atlee, who joined the ILP in 1908 when he decided that SOCIALISM was the only way to truly help fight poverty, was the prime mover behind the concepts of 'social democracy' and the Welfare State.

 

A lovely history lesson, but totally irrelvent to the point being discussed. Labour is tradionally a working class party for working class people with right, centre and left wing views. In recent years Labour has abandoned it's right wing voters (as have the Tories) and this is why the BNP and UKIP have a place in our democracy.

 

Calling BNP and UKIP voters facists in ridiculous. They are abandoned Labour and Tory voters.

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A lovely history lesson, but totally irrelvent to the point being discussed. Labour is tradionally a working class party for working class people with right, centre and left wing views. In recent years Labour has abandoned it's right wing voters (as have the Tories) and this is why the BNP and UKIP have a place in our democracy.

 

Calling BNP and UKIP voters facists in ridiculous. They are abandoned Labour and Tory voters.

Your previous post stated "I don't believe that our grandparents did go to war to fight fascism, i believe they went to war to defend their homeland. At this time Britian was an imperial super power where empire was something to be proud of. Our grandparents were certainly NOT left wing in their views."

 

Therefore you made two statements, which ARE the points being discussed, as you have hijacked the thread and changed it's direction : Your first point here is that we did not go to war in 1939 to fight fascism, - a point on which you are completely and demonstrably wrong. The second that 'our grandparents' were not left wing in their views, is also patently wrong, given that the founding fathers of the Labour Party were most certainly socialist and over 7 million voted for them in the last election before the war.

 

But I will give you a chance : in your world, ( whatever colour the sky might be ), if somebody comes along with a political philosophy that states that there will be a universal old-age pension, payable out of state funds; free education for all; free health care for all; social welfare payments for the unemployed and disabled; full recognition of trade union rights; and that taxation will be levied proportionally based on the ability to pay relative to the level of earnings - are they left wing, centrist, or right wing ?

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Your previous post stated "I don't believe that our grandparents did go to war to fight fascism, i believe they went to war to defend their homeland. At this time Britian was an imperial super power where empire was something to be proud of. Our grandparents were certainly NOT left wing in their views."

 

Therefore you made two statements, which ARE the points being discussed, as you have hijacked the thread and changed it's direction : Your first point here is that we did not go to war in 1939 to fight fascism, - a point on which you are completely and demonstrably wrong. The second that 'our grandparents' were not left wing in their views, is also patently wrong, given that the founding fathers of the Labour Party were most certainly socialist and over 7 million voted for them in the last election before the war.

 

But I will give you a chance : in your world, ( whatever colour the sky might be ), if somebody comes along with a political philosophy that states that there will be a universal old-age pension, payable out of state funds; free education for all; free health care for all; social welfare payments for the unemployed and disabled; full recognition of trade union rights; and that taxation will be levied proportionally based on the ability to pay relative to the level of earnings - are they left wing, centrist, or right wing ?

 

I am right on both points.

 

We entered WW2 because we had a treaty with Poland to assist them if their soverignty was threatened. Poland just happened to have been invaded by Germany under fascist control. It could just have easily have been invaded by the Bolsheviks. Therefore we weren't fighting a crusade against Fascism, we were fighting to uphold a treaty against a country that happened to be fascist.

 

On the second point you fail to understand that Socialism isn't a left wing wing ideal, nor has it ever been until Labour morphed into New Labour. Up until the the early 1980's Labour was a party for working class people with left, centre AND right wing views, but this changed and newspapers such as the Daily Mirror changed with it. National Socialism - do you know what this means? Well i'll tell you. It means Socialism for the Nationalists or in laymans terms a party for right wing working class voters. This shows that socialism isn't exclusively a left wing ideal.

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True, they may not be fascists, but they are racist, xenophobic, isolationist, repressive, bigots.

 

It's attitudes like yours that will ensure that the BNP and UKIP continue to grow. You sound like a mainstream politician that is completely out of touch with reality and in denial. More and more voters are becoming more and more unhappy with mainstream politics and these emotive words are becoming less and less meaningful given that they are being used completely out of context.

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I am right on both points.

 

We entered WW2 because we had a treaty with Poland to assist them if their soverignty was threatened. Poland just happened to have been invaded by Germany under fascist control. It could just have easily have been invaded by the Bolsheviks. Therefore we weren't fighting a crusade against Fascism, we were fighting to uphold a treaty against a country that happened to be fascist.

Wrong, the Common Defence Pact, signed on August 25th 1939, 2 days after the Nazi - Soviet Pact was signed, whilst on face value covering an invasion of Poland by any other country, actually included secret clauses, ( which only came to light relatively recently ), that specifically, and exclusively, related the treaty to Germany alone. In has to be noted that August 25th was the day before the Germans' original date for the start of the invasion of Poland, and as a result of the signing, the date was put back.

 

On the other point, could you please explain, for the wider audience, where Socialism and 'left wing' politics differ ? As things stand, if we had a poll on here about whether they are in fact the same thing, I think you would find yourself in a minority of 1 in thinking that they are not

Are you saying that the Wilson Governments were not 'left wing', because MI5 certainly thought they were, and many of his parliamentary party had previously been card carrying communists.

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Shut up Stanley. It's almost unbelievable how frankly bizarre your so-called politcal views are.

 

Robsk II, my political views may seem bizarre to you. Translation : views you don't share, but at least i'm informed and able to debate. I have clearly shown that socialism isn't a left wing concept and that Labour has morphed into a left wing party. You might not like this being pointed out but it is a fact.

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More and more voters are becoming more and more unhappy with mainstream politics

You know what Stan, this is something I can agree with you on, but just because I might be disillusioned with the 'big three', doesn't mean I will jump into bed with the BNP or UKIP, as I fundamentally disagree with their core founding principles, and I find their election literature and manifesto pledges offensive and insulting.

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could you please explain, for the wider audience, where Socialism and 'left wing' politics differ ? As things stand, if we had a poll on here about whether they are in fact the same thing, I think you would find yourself in a minority of 1 in thinking that they are not

Are you saying that the Wilson Governments were not 'left wing', because MI5 certainly thought they were, and many of his parliamentary party had previously been card carrying communists.

 

I may well be in a minority of 1 but i'd still be right. Winston Churchill made a speech (i can find the quote if you like) and stated that just because you're in a minority it doesn't mean you're wrong.

 

By your logic to be right wing socialist you have to be national socialist, but to be left wing socialist you're just socialist. Working on your logic Liberals and Libereral democrats would evidently differ with the latter being democratic and the former not. I'd advise you stop digging yourself into a deeper hole.

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Winston Churchill made a speech (i can find the quote if you like) and stated that just because you're in a minority it doesn't mean you're wrong.

 

Winston Churchill also made many speeches about the rising threat of Fascism in Germany & Italy, and the possibility that we would have to re-arm and risk going to war to stop them. ( Which funnily enough proved to be prophetic, when we went to war TO FIGHT FASCISM ).

 

And if you are in a minority of 1, even if you are right, you lose - that is DEMOCRACY.

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By your logic to be right wing socialist you have to be national socialist, but to be left wing socialist you're just socialist. Working on your logic Liberals and Libereral democrats would evidently differ with the latter being democratic and the former not. I'd advise you stop digging yourself into a deeper hole.

If which case help me out - give us your definition of 'left wing', and explain how Labour only became such after Bliar became leader. Come, on, I am willing to learn.

 

And as for words such as racist, xenophobic, isolationist, and bigot, I know exactly what they mean, how to spell them, and when to use them.

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Winston Churchill also made many speeches about the rising threat of Fascism in Germany & Italy, and the possibility that we would have to re-arm and risk going to war to stop them. ( Which funnily enough proved to be prophetic, when we went to war TO FIGHT FASCISM ).

 

And if you are in a minority of 1, even if you are right, you lose - that is DEMOCRACY.

 

Winston Churchill was also an ardent supporter of Empire. Explain to me how fascism and imperialism differ.

 

As for your silly point about about being in a minority of 1 means you lose you're losing the plot. The point i made was that i'd still be right.

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Winston Churchill was also an ardent supporter of Empire. Explain to me how fascism and imperialism differ.

 

.

I never said they did, did I ? I was, yet again, rebutting your incorrect statement that we did not go to war in 1939 to fight fascism.

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