General Election?

[TopGun]

I go away and a thread like this is started. Gutted I've missed out on all the fun. With regards to Labour Govt waste, books have been written about it - when I get back (and can be arsed) I will provide some links.

 

A very close example is the millions spent on merging the St Richards and Worthing hospitals, which are now to be left alone. Great use of taxpayers money.

 

The cuts you refer to were after years of leftie wastage - I doubt these savings could have been found without years of preceding waste, and thus they are not that hard to find.

 

 

Boringly predictable. We have a new St George.

[bridge too far]

Boringly predictable. We have a new St George.

 

Yeah whatever happened to him?

 

Did he put his hood on the wrong way (eyes in the back of his head, so to speak) and fall off a cliff?

[OldNick]

Do you have any REAL examples of this wastage?

 

I ask because, a few years ago, the Gershon Report was published. Google it and read it. Simply put, all local and national governments were set targets to achieve percentage savings year on year.

 

Every year, Best Value Performance Indicators are published for these councils and departments. You can find the reports on the councils' websites.

 

Most councils achieve these savings. If they don't, they are penalised.

 

So real efforts are being implemented to achieve savings. When I worked for the NHS as a Procurement Manager, I had to achieve 6% savings year on year on non-pay expenditure and I did and I wasn't unique.

I will point you to the example I gave from my own famillioes experience.

My cousin was dying from cancer.A week before she died a stairlift was installed. It was used once to take her downstairs to go to the hospice.A week after her death it was taken out and thrown in a skip.Her husband was very upset as he said she died of cancer not leprosy. It is a standard estate house in Lordswood that are built by the thousands.That is waste of thousands of £'s and that is just her.i spoke to an aquaintence and she works for a housing association and says that is commonplace. Then she went on to to tell me about a custom bath for invalids put in for a cost of 30 k that was never used but ripped out and skipped as they decided to do it differently.

[bridge too far]

I will point you to the example I gave from my own famillioes experience.

My cousin was dying from cancer.A week before she died a stairlift was installed. It was used once to take her downstairs to go to the hospice.A week after her death it was taken out and thrown in a skip.Her husband was very upset as he said she died of cancer not leprosy. It is a standard estate house in Lordswood that are built by the thousands.That is waste of thousands of £'s and that is just her.i spoke to an aquaintence and she works for a housing association and says that is commonplace. Then she went on to to tell me about a custom bath for invalids put in for a cost of 30 k that was never used but ripped out and skipped as they decided to do it differently.

 

Aah we did the stairlift before didn't we.

 

I can now tell you from first hand experience that I contacted my local authority when we no longer needed a stairlift in my house for when my mother visited.

 

They do not take second hand stairlifts for a number of reasons. However, the main reason is that grants for mobility aids are given directly to the end user (it's called enabling people to make their own decisions). It also SAVES on administrative costs.

 

However, most end users prefer to buy new - as I found to my cost when I advertised our stairlift locally, nationally and on eBay. New stairlifts come with maintenance and repair guarantees which second-hand ones don't.

 

In the end I found a good home for our lift - I wasn't interested in making any money really and I was happy to find someone who could use it.

[OldNick]

Aah we did the stairlift before didn't we.

 

I can now tell you from first hand experience that I contacted my local authority when we no longer needed a stairlift in my house for when my mother visited.

 

They do not take second hand stairlifts for a number of reasons. However, the main reason is that grants for mobility aids are given directly to the end user (it's called enabling people to make their own decisions). It also SAVES on administrative costs.

 

However, most end users prefer to buy new - as I found to my cost when I advertised our stairlift locally, nationally and on eBay. New stairlifts come with maintenance and repair guarantees which second-hand ones don't.

 

In the end I found a good home for our lift - I wasn't interested in making any money really and I was happy to find someone who could use it.

but it is a waste.You dont skip a wheel chair after it is used. There is no valid excuse as far as Im concerned. The £4000 that will be used on the next one and the next one etc etc could be used elsewhere. It is not an atack on the health service but an attack on waste.

As for saving on administration well.....

[bridge too far]

but it is a waste.You dont skip a wheel chair after it is used. There is no valid excuse as far as Im concerned. The £4000 that will be used on the next one and the next one etc etc could be used elsewhere. It is not an atack on the health service but an attack on waste.

As for saving on administration well.....

 

In the last month, we have tried to sell the following:

 

One wheelchair - used twice

One rise and fall armchair - hardly used

One adjustable bed - used half a dozen times

 

ABSOLUTELY NO TAKERS AT ALL!!!!!!

 

Going off at a tangent, you want to talk about waste? I went with Mr TF to his bank the other day (one of the 'big four' ). I was appalled to see that it was having another refit - only 12 months after a previous refit.

 

I wonder who pays for that refit? Mr TF amongst others in bank charges / ridiculous interest rates etc. etc. Thank goodness I don't bank with one of these wastrels.

 

Yep waste is wrong - of course it is - but it's what keeps global economies ticking over.

[bungle]

The stairlift/waste 'debate' wasn't that enthralling first time around. It is even less so this time.

[Wilko]

Yep waste is wrong - of course it is - but it's what keeps global economies ticking over.

 

This is like reading Brave New World.

 

The stairlift/waste 'debate' wasn't that enthralling first time around. It is even less so this time.

 

Indeed.

 

Back to the point, which is where I feel I must drag this debate, kicking and screaming though it maybe, it's time for an election.

 

The public need to get rid of those whom they deem unfit as soon as possible to restore confidence in Parliament. It won't happen, though, unless the Queen intervenes.

[bridge too far]

This is like reading Brave New World.

 

 

 

Indeed.

 

Back to the point, which is where I feel I must drag this debate, kicking and screaming though it maybe, it's time for an election.

 

The public need to get rid of those whom they deem unfit as soon as possible to restore confidence in Parliament. It won't happen, though, unless the Queen intervenes.

 

Sorry about the stairlift deviation there, Bungle and Wilko.

 

I'm not sure that an election is the best way to get rid, however. Now that, apparently, there is cross-party concensus of a sort on what to do immediately coupled with the apparent willingness of some of the parties to encourage some of their incumbent MPs to resign at the next election, I think the country should allow a good 6 months to a year for the dust to settle and see how things are panning out.

 

I do believe that there is the will now for a root and branch reform of politics signified by GB's reference to getting rid of the 'old boy' culture. A good start would be to introduce sensible working hours so that more mothers / fathers of young families can be encouraged to put themselves up for election. Get rid of the ridiculous braying and waving of Order Papers and start debating in an honest and intelligent way.

 

I also think, actually, that David Cameron would be cra**ing his pants right now if an election was called as I don't think that he and his party have a clue about how to deal with the global economic crisis. Anyway, according to the IMF, GB is doing a first-rate job on that front.

 

I'd like GB to have a cabinet of 'all the talents' - I'd like Vince Cable to be Chancellor.

 

Interesting views in the Guardian today about reform etc.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/series/politics-and-reform

[badgerx16]

unless the Queen intervenes.

She can't, unless it is on the advice of the Privy Council, ( and look who that includes ). Otherwise it would precipitate a constitutional crisis equivalent to Edward the 8th or Charles the 1st, and probably lead to the abolition of the Monarchy.

[Sheaf Saint]

She can't, unless it is on the advice of the Privy Council, ( and look who that includes ). Otherwise it would precipitate a constitutional crisis equivalent to Edward the 8th or Charles the 1st, and probably lead to the abolition of the Monarchy.

 

So it's win/win then

[badgerx16]

So it's win/win then

As Francis Urqhuart says in 'House of Cards' ; "You might say that, I could not possibly comment"

[Johnny Bognor]

Boringly predictable. We have a new St George.

 

 

So what you are saying is that Labour have managed to reduce public spending since the Tories were in power?

 

I thought they significantly increased taxation for the purpose of swelling the public purse. So are you seriously saying that this massive increase in public spending was all wisely spent and there was no wastage whatsover?

[bridge too far]

I found the chart at the bottom of this page quite interesting. It shows levels of public debt in the UK since the early 80s.

 

Not as cut and dried Labour v Conservatives as one might have supposed!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8059861.stm

 

Obviously the forward projections are a bit suck it and see but the same would be true for whichever government was in power / any developed economy at the moment.

[hypochondriac]

It is impossible to have a proper conversation on this issue with quite a few posters on here. There are clearly too many with an agenda.

[bridge too far]

It is impossible to have a proper conversation on this issue with quite a few posters on here. There are clearly too many with an agenda.

 

Most people have agendae when it comes to politics, religion, sex and football

[hypochondriac]

Most people have agendae when it comes to politics, religion, sex and football

 

Generally people are open to ideas or opposing views to their own. Some People will also put their hands up when whatever side they support does something clearly wrong. Many people don't back any side but take a more balanced view. Especially with regards to politics it is ridiculous for someone to say "I am a Conservative" or "I am labour." and staunchly supporting "their" party through thick and thin.

 

What relevance does what the Tories did over ten years ago have now? Very little in my opinion. I have no idea if they will be any better or worse than Labour. There's no point looking at either parties manifestos because A) They are largely similar and B) The vast majority of the stuff in there is not kept to (I know I read the last ones in detail.)

 

I would always back a party who is generally trying to do their best for this country and who is determined to follow a political path which focuses on the positive rather than the negative. How refreshing it would be to see a Labour MP say "well actually the Tories did a really good job here but I think we could do better in this area and better overall."

 

The reason I find your posts so objectionable on this subject BTF is because your argument seems to be "well the Tories are worse" in every area as if that somehow justifies Labour's actions.

[bridge too far]

Hypo - I think if you bother to read the preceeding posts to mine with the link to the chart, you'll find that I was challenging the assumption that debt is ALWAYS worse under Labour than under the Conservatives.

 

I was simply redressing the balance there.

 

However, in the same way as you find my posts objectionable, I find yours about me so too - because you jump to conclusions about me that are unfounded and unfair. I've categorically stated in the past that I left the Labour Party because of my opposition to the Iraq war and to PFI - hardly a blinkered view I'm sure you'll agree.

 

Indeed, just a couple of posts up, I actually said I'd welcome Vince Cable as Chancellor of a Labour government.

 

So please try - very hard - not to knee-jerk quite so much, eh

[hypochondriac]

Hypo - I think if you bother to read the preceeding posts to mine with the link to the chart, you'll find that I was challenging the assumption that debt is ALWAYS worse under Labour than under the Conservatives.

 

I was simply redressing the balance there.

 

Does it really matter? What possible usefulness does that information have to anyone? It changes nothing.

 

However, in the same way as you find my posts objectionable, I find yours about me so too - because you jump to conclusions about me that are unfounded and unfair.

 

I hve jumped to no conclusions, I have simply read your posts and from that I have formed an opinion.

 

I've categorically stated in the past that I left the Labour Party because of my opposition to the Iraq war and to PFI - hardly a blinkered view I'm sure you'll agree.

 

My initial point was a general comment about politicians in general. The only bit which referred to you was the final bit. Apologies if that was not clearer.

 

Indeed, just a couple of posts up, I actually said I'd welcome Vince Cable as Chancellor of a Labour government.

 

And? That doesn't mean you haven't tried to counter most valid points on here by pointing out how the Tories have been worse.

 

So please try - very hard - not to knee-jerk quite so much, eh

 

I've already told you there's no knee-jerking here, you've been doing it for a long time.

[badgerx16]

There are clearly too many with an agenda.

 

Item 1 - Apologies for absence

( St David, Sundance, Scooby )

 

Item 2 - Minutes of the last meeting

 

Item 3 - Debate the motion "Should there be a General Election ?"

 

Item 4 - Post the results on SaintsWerb

 

Item 5 - Any other business

 

Item 6 - Date of next meeting

 

[hamster]

Item 1 - Apologies for absence

( St David, Sundance, Scooby )

 

Item 2 - Minutes of the last meeting

 

Item 3 - Debate the motion "Should there be a General Election ?"

 

Item 4 - Post the results on SaintsWerb

 

Item 5 - Any other business

 

Item 6 - Date of next meeting

 

Fundamental error above.

Biscuits, whos turn is it to bring biscuits? Just ask Southampton City Council. I believe they used to spend about 17k pa on biscuits for their meetings at one time, someone might remember the story from the echo.

[badgerx16]

Fundamental error above.

Biscuits, whos turn is it to bring biscuits? Just ask Southampton City Council. I believe they used to spend about 17k pa on biscuits for their meetings at one time, someone might remember the story from the echo.

Ahh, sorry, I work for a northerm 'met', so it's BYO.

[Johnny Bognor]

OK, I'll drop the party lines on the subject of government waste - when in fact we are really talking about public sector waste (this waste also happens in the private sector especially with Corporates). What it boils down to is spending other peoples money. If you give someone a budget, that is money they will spend.

 

A good example of this was the recent Apprentice programme where the boys and girls had to purchase cleaning products with a maximum spend of 800. The girls were proud of the fact that they came in under budget, having spent most of the money. Alan Sugar was furious on the basis that they did not need to spend all the money in order to win the task, as it was about profit at the end of the day.

 

The term 'using up budget' is endemic in the Public Sector, especially in the NHS. As if you don't use it, you lose it. This culture actively involves people spending money, when in fact they don't need to, in order to maintain their budgets in the following year. This occured as much under the tories as it does under labour, however it is only more prevelant under the current lot as so much more money has been thrown at the system.

 

I for one would like to see this culture change. In my business, the budget holders are allowed to keep a share of the money they don't spend. This gives them a maximum to work to, whilst still meeting the needs of the business, but they only spend what they have to, as this affects their pocket. Suddenly the money is spent as if it were their own and as such there is no wastage - period. A change of culture is what is needed as opposed to a change of government on the specific issue of waste.

[bridge too far]

I absolutely agree with you JB about the public sector having to spend up or lose budget for the following financial year. It's crazy and it has a knock-on effect on the private sector in that suppliers have to stock up like mad from about February onwards to supply the sudden rush in orders before the end of March.

 

But nowadays budgets are actually reduced year on year in real terms anyway, unless there is 'special' money for specific initiatives (e.g. reducing cancer waiting times).

[Atticus Finch of Maycomb]

BNP Stock Photography

 

This popped through my door today.

 

 

 

Freedom of speech is a great thing and they have every right to post flyers through my door.

 

However, as a graphic designer I can't help but play the game of 'They're not real people, I wonder where they got the stock image from'. Its a good game and keeps me quiet for ages.

 

Anyone else recognise the pretend people our friendly faced fascists are touting around as real testimonial? Email me at crooksdesign@googlemail.com , or comment on Reddit if you find any.

 

I'll start. Old couple on the back is iStock number File #: 5048614

 

 

http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-5048614-senior-woman-hugging-her-husband.php

 

not real people....

 

 

More thanks to Redditiers

 

iStock number File #: 2192770

 

http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-5132168-construction-worker-portraits.php

 

iStock number File #: 6426547

http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-6426547-love-my-mommy.php

 

 

 

And they even have a Polish Spitfire....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/04/polish_spitfire/

 

 

 

Thought the Guard looked real - Oh, hang on.....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2436087.ece

 

http://www.fotosearch.com/SIX116/047pe1/

 

 

 

This isn't even a stock site - they nicked it...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1941091/posts

 

 

 

All solved! The family on the front is a BNP shot

 

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article:904-People-like-him-voting-BNP

 

Begs a question is this a violation of iStock rules and if so, what are they going to do about it?

 

http://www.istockphoto.com/license_comparison.php

[Mole]

They'll be getting my vote.

[bungle]

They'll be getting my vote.

 

That's because you are racist scum.

[Mole]

That's because you are racist scum.

 

It's my democratic right to vote for whichever party i choose and i like their policies.

[bungle]

It's my democratic right to vote for whichever party i choose and i like their policies.

 

Their policies of fear, hate and ignorance.

[badgerx16]

BNP Stock Photography

 

I'll start. Old couple on the back is iStock number File #: 5048614

 

 

http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-5048614-senior-woman-hugging-her-husband.php

 

not real people....

 

I heard that they are German ( so not REAL people at all ).

( How appropriate for our regional branch of the NSDAP )

 

 

 

More thanks to Redditiers

 

iStock number File #: 2192770

 

http://www.crooksdesign.co.uk/images/istockphoto_5132168-construction-worker-portraits.jpg' alt='istockphoto_5132168-construction-worker-portraits.jpg'>

http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-5132168-construction-worker-portraits.php

 

 

These are also Yanks - funny they didn't pick the other pictures in this set, for instance the ones with the 'coloured' gentleman included.

[Dicko]

I think many people are totally disillusioned with mainstream politics

 

This will give oxygen to all the minority parties, not just the BNP, but UKIP and the Green Party also

[hypochondriac]

That's very funny that literature for the British national party includes hardly any british people! Very amusing.

[Dicko]

That's very funny that literature for the British national party includes hardly any british people! Very amusing.

 

I think that's the point

 

They're posing the question - Do you want to live in a Britain like this?

[Rory]

Proportional Representation pls, thnx.

[Saint in Paradise]

Their policies of fear, hate and ignorance.

 

Maybe but to me it appears that people are fed up to their back teeth with all of the insipid politicans presently in Parliament.

The "normal" parties are just playing into the hands of the BNP and have no-one but themselves

to blaim IF the BNP win some seats. It will because the others have lost the people rather than the BNP

has won over the people. Thatcher kept winning because Labour etc at the time were rubbish she didn't win because she was brilliant.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

It's my democratic right to vote for whichever party i choose and i like their policies.

It's my democratic right to call you racist scum.

[bungle]

Maybe but to me it appears that people are fed up to their back teeth with all of the insipid politicans presently in Parliament.

The "normal" parties are just playing into the hands of the BNP and have no-one but themselves

to blaim IF the BNP win some seats. It will because the others have lost the people rather than the BNP

has won over the people. Thatcher kept winning because Labour etc at the time were rubbish she didn't win because she was brilliant.

 

Anyone who votes for them is racist scum, end of.

[Saint in Paradise]

Anyone who votes for them is racist scum, end of.

 

Easy to say but what are the 2 main parties doing to convince these people that they will be

wrong to vote for the BNP ???

[Dicko]

Anyone who votes for them is racist scum, end of.

 

The BNP love people like you Bungle

 

If nobody took them seriously & weren't bothered by their existance, they would simply fade away

 

They get noticed because they generate so much derision from people, this then gives them the opportunity to be a voice for so many disillusioned Brits

[Toomer]

Gordon Brown is a non elected PM so I say yes but IMO not one of them is fit to lead the country.

[badgerx16]

Gordon Brown is a non elected PM so I say yes.

All PMs are 'non-elected'. You do not know, in advance who is going to win an election, nor indeed if there is going to be a party with any form of majority. The monarch of the day will invite, possibly with the advice of the Privy Council, who he / she decides is the most appropriate person to attempt to form a working government.

 

What would happen, if for instance, a PM died in office, would you expect there to be an immediate full General Election, or would you be happy to see a successor appointed there and then ?

[Rattlehead]

We need MORE foreigners in this country. If only we could then ship the BNP supporters and benefit scrounging scum to France or anywhere else, this country might be ok again.

[JustMike]

all as bad as each other imo.

 

Made me laugh when Cameron called for the election amid the expences scandel and yet its his lot that are falsely claiming the most!

[Rattlehead]

The reason I find your posts so objectionable on this subject BTF is because your argument seems to be "well the Tories are worse" in every area as if that somehow justifies Labour's actions.

 

Spot on. BTF is one of the most predictably boring posters on this site, it's the same every time. YAWN.

[Hatch]

the BNP were against the move to allow Ghurkas residency.

 

I think they quoted that this would lead to 750,000* more people living here

(*that figure is from memory but I'm sure thats what they said)

[Mole]

the BNP were against the move to allow Ghurkas residency.

 

I think they quoted that this would lead to 750,000* more people living here

(*that figure is from memory but I'm sure thats what they said)

 

This is a lie spread by comunist activists.

[badgerx16]

This is a lie spread by comunist activists.

Actually, it was spread by The Sun.

 

How far to the political right are you, if you think the 'currant bun' are commies ?

[Mole]

Actually, it was spread by The Sun.

 

How far to the political right are you, if you think the 'currant bun' are commies ?

 

The Sun story was based on paraphinalia produced by a comunist as BNP literature. Leaflets were distributed in Oldham purporting to be from the BNP but they were in fact from the ANL or a similar group. Nick Griffin has reported the matter to the police.

 

http://bnp.org.uk/2009/05/forged-gurkha-leaflet-smear-continues-%e2%80%94-public-urged-to-report-incidents-to-police/

Edited 22 May, 2009 by Mole

[Dicko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZnKxVTO64&feature=fvst

[badgerx16]

The Sun story was based on paraphinalia produced by a comunist as BNP literature. Leaflets were distributed in Oldham purporting to be from the BNP but they were in fact from the ANL or a similar group. Nick Griffin has reported the matter to the police.

 

http://bnp.org.uk/2009/05/forged-gurkha-leaflet-smear-continues-%e2%80%94-public-urged-to-report-incidents-to-police/

They're just bitter the ToryGraph outbid them for the MPs expenses leak.