Leon Crouch

[John Smith]

Sorry ,but as grateful as i am I think he should not have a place at the clubs board .He is part of the old guard and all that has gone on.I dont think he would be able to work as part of a team as he would rightly wish to run things his way.A powerful personality becomes too overpowering IMO

I expect there strings attatched to his loan ie guarentees.

 

Nick, I'll use your post as an example, but by no means am I attacking you're opinion, you're entitled to it.

 

From my experience, some of the greatest, most successful businessmen of today are those that have failed in the past. I am a true believer of failure, in that, having experienced it, you can see it coming again and you will be more prepared not to fail this time.

 

Learning from our mistakes is a natural human trait. Touching a hot iron, or kettle or tap, when we are young, we know that we shouldn't do this again. The fact remains that the 'danger' exists, but we are more cautious of avoiding it.

 

If Leon were to be involved in Saints in the future, I would give him a chance, as I think his 'experience' for any knew 'naive' investors will be invaluable. I'm sure Leon would not want us to get to this point again and will recognise all the warning signs that says we are heading this way and act accordingly in advising the new owners.

 

Of course, there is that rare breed that recognise failure and cannot find fault in what they do, and will continually react in exactly the same way, each time the same scenario raises it's head again. And yes, that is directed at Lowe, but not in a bashing him way, just in the idea that I could have learned to accept him 'if' he had learned from his mistakes. And the best way to do this is recognise the part you played in that mistake AND DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN! That is the sign of a fool. Someone who keeps getting his fingers burned on the iron but does not recognise their own failure in repeatedly touching the said iron. Check if it's on, if it is don't touch the shiny bit! And if it is working, it ain't broke, so don;t try to fix it!

 

And so, even though I am sure there are strings attached to the covering of wages, maybe this is why the bid needs to go from 8m to 9mill, I have no problem with this, without it, we'd be dead already.

 

Give Crouch a break, everyone deserves a second chance, from what I can remember, Lowes had 2 goes, Wildes had 2 goes, Crouch has only had 1. He deserves our respect and understanding, because he is actually doing what none of us can, KEEPING SAINTS ALIVE!

[SP Saint]

Leon Crouch is providing a loan to the football club, SFC Ltd who are not in Administration. It is a loan he will expect to be repayed should a new owner purchase the football club. Other than that I do not know the terms. I assume he stands to lose the lot if the club is liquidated.

 

Whatever the terms and whatever he has done before this IS a lifeline and he deserves credit for that gesture and commitment.

 

I completely agree Weston. As a loan the money is a generous action and his chances of seeing it repaid must be almost as slim as if he'd invested it in Merlion. He deserves the gratitude of all Saints fans for keeping the club alive.

I don't see any other ex-directors doing the same.

 

I feel sure he won't lose too much sleep if he doesn't get the approval of the Lowe lackeys that are still crawling out of the woodwork here and there.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Nick, I'll use your post as an example, but by no means am I attacking you're opinion, you're entitled to it.

 

From my experience, some of the greatest, most successful businessmen of today are those that have failed in the past. I am a true believer of failure, in that, having experienced it, you can see it coming again and you will be more prepared not to fail this time.

 

Learning from our mistakes is a natural human trait. Touching a hot iron, or kettle or tap, when we are young, we know that we shouldn't do this again. The fact remains that the 'danger' exists, but we are more cautious of avoiding it.

 

If Leon were to be involved in Saints in the future, I would give him a chance, as I think his 'experience' for any knew 'naive' investors will be invaluable. I'm sure Leon would not want us to get to this point again and will recognise all the warning signs that says we are heading this way and act accordingly in advising the new owners.

 

Of course, there is that rare breed that recognise failure and cannot find fault in what they do, and will continually react in exactly the same way, each time the same scenario raises it's head again. And yes, that is directed at Lowe, but not in a bashing him way, just in the idea that I could have learned to accept him 'if' he had learned from his mistakes. And the best way to do this is recognise the part you played in that mistake AND DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN! That is the sign of a fool. Someone who keeps getting his fingers burned on the iron but does not recognise their own failure in repeatedly touching the said iron. Check if it's on, if it is don't touch the shiny bit! And if it is working, it ain't broke, so don;t try to fix it!

 

And so, even though I am sure there are strings attached to the covering of wages, maybe this is why the bid needs to go from 8m to 9mill, I have no problem with this, without it, we'd be dead already.

 

Give Crouch a break, everyone deserves a second chance, from what I can remember, Lowes had 2 goes, Wildes had 2 goes, Crouch has only had 1. He deserves our respect and understanding, because he is actually doing what none of us can, KEEPING SAINTS ALIVE!

 

Nice sermon John but it would help if you practised what you preached. If I remember you chose not to give Lowe a second chance and refused on his presence alone not to renew your two season tickets or maybe that was just a convienient excuse to help you pay for your daughter's school fees? Sorry if that was a cheap shot but clearly you wrote Lowe off after 1 mistake so forgive me if I think you are making up this patronising and sugary nonsense as you go along.

[Kingsland Red]

Thank you Leon for both the loan and the nod.

The fact he is prepared to loan funds at such a precarious time suggests that a buyer has been found and is near to closing the deal. Leon must be ITK that a deal is close, otherwise why loan the money to a business shortly to be shut down.

[jonah]

Let's be honest, a secured loan to SFC is not exactly some unprecedented philanthropic gesture is it. When you've just driven a bus into a brick wall you can hardly claim a medal just because you performed CPR on one of the passengers whilst waiting for the ambulance.

 

There is another issue to *any* loan like this which I've not seen explained by Mark Fry - the longer this is dragged out, the longer time-wasters will keep us hanging on, the more money Fry will charge, and ultimately there's a case for stating it's less likely we'll find a buyer... as well as repaying the SFC loan, there are Fry's increased charges to pay, and as time goes on both of those additional costs are rising whilst we generate no revenue. The player's wages are guaranteed by the FA (or FL) so the sooner this is brought to an end the cheaper the club is to buy.

[Mole]

Let's be honest, a secured loan to SFC is not exactly some unprecedented philanthropic gesture is it.

 

It's noticeable that Lowe and Wilde have not donated or loaned the club a single penny. That says it all.

[Capel Saint]

It's noticeable that Lowe and Wilde have not donated or loaned the club a single penny. That says it all.

 

Quite!

[John Smith]

Nice sermon John but it would help if you practised what you preached. If I remember you chose not to give Lowe a second chance and refused on his presence alone not to renew your two season tickets or maybe that was just a convienient excuse to help you pay for your daughter's school fees? Sorry if that was a cheap shot but clearly you wrote Lowe off after 1 mistake so forgive me if I think you are making up this patronising and sugary nonsense as you go along.

 

Oh, I'm sorry if I've confused you 19C, you obviously have your own agenda you;re trying to force on this thread.

 

If it helps for you, I will fill in the gaps you so conveniently omitted from your attempted cyber attack.

 

Yes, I stopped going when Lowe returned, in fact I believe he had already made more than one mistake when he came back and so had already had his second chance with me.

 

Also, i did state at the time and continuously, that I hoped that Saints would succeed this season. I wished that we would be pushing for promotion, I wanted us to win every game this season and desired to avoid relegation and administration. In short, regardless of my personal 'opinion' on Lowe, I wanted the club to succeed regardless and did not distinguish between success under Lowe or success under anyone else, the way you measure it should be the same.

 

And so, what you have enabled me to do is now throw this back in your face, and ask you to vocally support Crouch at this time. He deserves a second chance, like I gave Lowe, he deserves our respect in trying to succeed, as that means saints survives, just like I hoped Lowe would succeed and it wouldn't come to the point where we are now. You must now practice what you have preached all season, swallow some of that 'Lowe is the only option to save us' opinion, and get on with eating some humble pie. Some of us saw this coming, some of you are still in denial, get over it.

 

Regardless of why we are where we are now, when someone tries to help, you should be thankful for that help, IF that is, you want us to survive? Unfortunately, by the looks of things, I doubt that you do.

[Frank's cousin]

Oh, I'm sorry if I've confused you 19C, you obviously have your own agenda you;re trying to force on this thread.

 

If it helps for you, I will fill in the gaps you so conveniently omitted from your attempted cyber attack.

 

Yes, I stopped going when Lowe returned, in fact I believe he had already made more than one mistake when he came back and so had already had his second chance with me.

 

Also, i did state at the time and continuously, that I hoped that Saints would succeed this season. I wished that we would be pushing for promotion, I wanted us to win every game this season and desired to avoid relegation and administration. In short, regardless of my personal 'opinion' on Lowe, I wanted the club to succeed regardless and did not distinguish between success under Lowe or success under anyone else, the way you measure it should be the same. Cant really say fairer than that..?

 

And so, what you have enabled me to do is now throw this back in your face, and ask you to vocally support Crouch at this time. He deserves a second chance, like I gave Lowe, he deserves our respect in trying to succeed, as that means saints survives, just like I hoped Lowe would succeed and it wouldn't come to the point where we are now. You must now practice what you have preached all season, swallow some of that 'Lowe is the only option to save us' opinion, and get on with eating some humble pie. Some of us saw this coming, some of you are still in denial, get over it.

 

Regardless of why we are where we are now, when someone tries to help, you should be thankful for that help, IF that is, you want us to survive? Unfortunately, by the looks of things, I doubt that you do.

 

If Crouch comes back and and it saves the club he will get my full support, but he will not and should not be immune to constrictive criticism during his tenure - I hope he does not bow to popularism and makes decisions on merit not on what he believes will have the most positive impact with fans, and that he takes some PR and media training... if he does that and then results on the pitch will be judged on merit and in line with whatever financial restrictions the club and he faces.

[Foxstone]

If Crouch comes back and and it saves the club he will get my full support' date=' but he will not and should not be immune to constrictive criticism during his tenure - I hope he does not bow to popularism and makes decisions on merit not on what he believes will have the most positive impact with fans, and that he takes some PR and media training... if he does that and then results on the pitch will be judged on merit and in line with whatever financial restrictions the club and he faces.[/quote']

 

Indeed !

 

One of this forum's forefathers ran misty eyed towards a basket case called Wilde, who promised much including jam for everybodies tea and spoke of what the fans wanted to hear !

 

So please excuse many of us from reserving judgement so we don't go down that road again!

[Frank's cousin]

Indeed !

 

One of this forum's forefathers ran misty eyed towards a basket case called Wilde, who promised much including jam for everybodies tea and spoke of what the fans wanted to hear !

 

So please excuse many of us from reserving judgement so we don't go down that road again!

 

I will also say quite happily I know Crouch did not make his mistakes or public gaffs with any malice and that he felt he was genuinely doing teh right thing for the club - if he learns, unlike rupes who seemed to struggle a tad with that one, then he will do well no doubt.. still has a bit to do in my opinion to get over the gobsheite tag though - especially after the 5Live comments.... ;-)

[John Smith]

If Crouch comes back and and it saves the club he will get my full support' date=' but he will not and should not be immune to constrictive criticism during his tenure - I hope he does not bow to popularism and makes decisions on merit not on what he believes will have the most positive impact with fans, and that he takes some PR and media training... if he does that and then results on the pitch will be judged on merit and in line with whatever financial restrictions the club and he faces.[/quote']

 

Exactly, FC. And that is why I tried to be careful in pointing out, in my original post, that I wasn't attacking Nick's 'opinion'.

 

My opinion(s) on Lowe are there for all to see. So far, I have seen many positives from Crouch but also many negatives, my judgment is reserved until he can 'prove' himself. Not necessarily by me, but by the the yard stick he measures himself and his success and what constitutes failure. And, in failing, you should do all you can to not repeat those failings.

 

Personally, I think his 'populism' and perceived 'untouchable' status, comes largely from him, a. Not being Lowe, b. Being a Saints fan. But, he should not be devoid of criticism and opinion. I do tend to speak in favour of Crouch when I see unjust comments, and snared opinionated attacks. The man has made a 'loan' to the club, in order to keep it afloat, so that someone can hopefully revive it. Comments such as on this thread and then like Jonah's, do not help. In Jonah's statement, he forgets to mention that even if the price of the club has now gone up, nobody bought it at the cheaper price, and nobody bought it from Lowe in the last 10-12 years. And with that in mind, covering the 'note' in part of the bid, is hardly going to scare away investors that a. don't even exist, or b. couldn't afford it before the loan! and c. that Fry would allow a loan to be sanctioned if he knew it would scare off the one investor we may have had.

 

And so, I don't expect those that despise Crouch to keep quiet, but like most opinions, there should be some rationale behind the slagging. Like Jonah's post, I may criticise it, I may disagree with it, but I'm glad he made it, just for the sake of debate. I pointed one side in my original post, (why the price of the club may have gone from 8m to 9mill), and Jonah pointed out the other side, I'm sure, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, like all debates should.

 

Sorry for the long post, last one of the day, so had to cover my a*se, so that posters like 19C don;t use it as an excuse to use it as a cheap shot and patronise it without the ability to respond. So, by chance, that 19C does misinterpret this post 'again', please feel free to point this out to him, it will save you all having to read a real 'thorough' break down of 'my thoughts' on this matter!

[St Landrew]

Since Leon Crouch came out of the shadows as a major contributor to the club, he has had a very hit or miss time in the public eye. He's made right decisions, he's made wrong ones. But he's always been there, putting his hand in his pocket when he can make the significant difference. He turned the shambles of the first Ted Bates statue affair into a triumph, and he didn't make a song and dance about it. He just quietly came up with the cash, and solved the problem. Then he waved away the plaudits.

 

I think, even he realises he's not at his best in front of the camera or microphone, and it has certainly helped to prejudice people's opinions about him; mine included. But he has always been there, and his heart has always been in the right place. And how many people of the last few years, in positions of power within SFC, can you say that about..? And people who really know him will say he is the genuine article.

 

So thank you, Leon. Once again you've stepped up and made a difference. Let's hope it is truly significant, like it never has been before.

[Frank's cousin]

Exactly, FC. And that is why I tried to be careful in pointing out, in my original post, that I wasn't attacking Nick's 'opinion'.

 

My opinion(s) on Lowe are there for all to see. So far, I have seen many positives from Crouch but also many negatives, my judgment is reserved until he can 'prove' himself. Not necessarily by me, but by the the yard stick he measures himself and his success and what constitutes failure. And, in failing, you should do all you can to not repeat those failings.

 

Personally, I think his 'populism' and perceived 'untouchable' status, comes largely from him, a. Not being Lowe, b. Being a Saints fan. But, he should not be devoid of criticism and opinion. I do tend to speak in favour of Crouch when I see unjust comments, and snared opinionated attacks. The man has made a 'loan' to the club, in order to keep it afloat, so that someone can hopefully revive it. Comments such as on this thread and then like Jonah's, do not help. In Jonah's statement, he forgets to mention that even if the price of the club has now gone up, nobody bought it at the cheaper price, and nobody bought it from Lowe in the last 10-12 years. And with that in mind, covering the 'note' in part of the bid, is hardly going to scare away investors that a. don't even exist, or b. couldn't afford it before the loan! and c. that Fry would allow a loan to be sanctioned if he knew it would scare off the one investor we may have had.

 

And so, I don't expect those that despise Crouch to keep quiet, but like most opinions, there should be some rationale behind the slagging. Like Jonah's post, I may criticise it, I may disagree with it, but I'm glad he made it, just for the sake of debate. I pointed one side in my original post, (why the price of the club may have gone from 8m to 9mill), and Jonah pointed out the other side, I'm sure, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, like all debates should.

 

Sorry for the long post, last one of the day, so had to cover my a*se, so that posters like 19C don;t use it as an excuse to use it as a cheap shot and patronise it without the ability to respond. So, by chance, that 19C does misinterpret this post 'again', please feel free to point this out to him, it will save you all having to read a real 'thorough' break down of 'my thoughts' on this matter!

 

Good post, but it does highlight one thing - you mention those that 'dispise Crouch' - i think during my entire time posting on on S4E, the second coming of S4E and now TSW, one think at least i have been consistent on ;-) is that I cant dispise anyone - i certainly have never dispised Crouch or taken it to such an emotional or emotive level - he has done good and acted like a fool IMHO, all within his belief its best for the club - Lowe made huge errors, spoke like an arse at times, made more errors, some which were based on ideas that had merits, said some reasonable things but blew it by using his arrogant style etc, but I cant hate or dispise him - they are doing it their way and ego often gets in the way of listening to advice..... Fans put in a huge amount of emotional investment in following a club, especially one where success has been hard to come by so there is bound to be resentment and anger when things go wrong, but to teh extent that some express, especially when not looking deeper than the outcome, is beyond me... and that in part influences teh way I respond - If I think that someone is being unfairly victimised, i do tend to try and offer a defence - Lowe makes it 'kin difficult to offer one, but if kept to football there are some small bits and pieces that offer a 'logical' defense, if not always entirely practical... ;-)

[Lord Duckhunter]

Only at Southampton could a bloke (whoever he is) provide the money to keep us going (whether a loan or donation) and still be slagged off. Let's give credit where it's due.

 

Had Lowe done this the Luvvies would be having an orgasism.

[Frank's cousin]

Luvvies would be having an orgasism.

 

Not sure waht that is but its sounds good ;-) Is it like and orgasm, or is it an organism in which case what type Flora or Fauna or Fungus or Viral?

 

Seriously, no one is slagging him for this act of generosity, but some are just putting it in perspective - same as if Lowe suddenly had a character switch and gave 500k - it waould be a great jesture but it would not change the fact he had contributed to teh need for it in the first place...

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not sure waht that is but its sounds good ;-) Is it like and orgasm, or is it an organism in which case what type Flora or Fauna or Fungus or Viral?

 

...

 

It's unique to the Cotswold's hunting set.

[Kingsland Red]

Is it what happens when they're impaled on a five bar gate which the horse has refused?

[beatlesaint]

I do hope Leon Crouch doesnt read this forum cos he would think to himself "why do I ****in bother"

 

I cannot believe that a man gives the club a loan, or whatever it is, to pay the staff and keep the club going for another few weeks, therefore giving the administrator longer to find a buyer, and still gets slagged off by some people on here.

 

It defies ****in belief, it really does !!!!!

[Nineteen Canteen]

Oh, I'm sorry if I've confused you 19C, you obviously have your own agenda you;re trying to force on this thread.

 

If it helps for you, I will fill in the gaps you so conveniently omitted from your attempted cyber attack.

 

Yes, I stopped going when Lowe returned, in fact I believe he had already made more than one mistake when he came back and so had already had his second chance with me.

 

Also, i did state at the time and continuously, that I hoped that Saints would succeed this season. I wished that we would be pushing for promotion, I wanted us to win every game this season and desired to avoid relegation and administration. In short, regardless of my personal 'opinion' on Lowe, I wanted the club to succeed regardless and did not distinguish between success under Lowe or success under anyone else, the way you measure it should be the same.

 

And so, what you have enabled me to do is now throw this back in your face, and ask you to vocally support Crouch at this time. He deserves a second chance, like I gave Lowe, he deserves our respect in trying to succeed, as that means saints survives, just like I hoped Lowe would succeed and it wouldn't come to the point where we are now. You must now practice what you have preached all season, swallow some of that 'Lowe is the only option to save us' opinion, and get on with eating some humble pie. Some of us saw this coming, some of you are still in denial, get over it.

 

Regardless of why we are where we are now, when someone tries to help, you should be thankful for that help, IF that is, you want us to survive? Unfortunately, by the looks of things, I doubt that you do.

 

FWIW John I think Crouch has made more than one mistake but his money is welcome nonetheless even though like his past promises his optimisim may simply be false hope.

[Wes Tender]

Nice sermon John but it would help if you practised what you preached. If I remember you chose not to give Lowe a second chance and refused on his presence alone not to renew your two season tickets or maybe that was just a convienient excuse to help you pay for your daughter's school fees? Sorry if that was a cheap shot but clearly you wrote Lowe off after 1 mistake so forgive me if I think you are making up this patronising and sugary nonsense as you go along.

 

Yes, I also recall John stating quite clearly that on a matter of principle he would cease to attend any home games while Lowe remained in charge of the club. He wrote a lengthy explanation as to why he made that stand and then defended it from attack from others such as you.

 

So John made that decision on the basis that Lowe had got us relegated and John did not want to provide him with any support from his pockets. Fair enough IMO.

 

So what would you say if Lowe were to return now, buying the club for a pittance, or as part of a consortium that would install him as chairman again? I don't need to ask what you'd do; you'd carry on attending. But if others decided that they'd had enough of the sod and boycotted his return, presumably you'd still adopt your stance that as fans they had some sort of duty to pay their hard-earned dosh into the club's coffers regardless.

 

On that basis, it is entirely pointless arguing a matter of principle with you, as you do not understand the concept in this context. If a large proportion of the fan base would boycott a third coming of the arrogant tosspot who has destroyed our club, then John Smith merely had the foresight to see where his second coming would lead and had had enough of him a season earlier than most of the rest of us.

[alpine_saint]

Only at Southampton could a bloke (whoever he is) provide the money to keep us going (whether a loan or donation) and still be slagged off. Let's give credit where it's due.

 

Had Lowe done this the Luvvies would be having an orgasism.

 

Yep. F**king ridiculous

[alpine_saint]

Not sure waht that is but its sounds good ;-) Is it like and orgasm, or is it an organism in which case what type Flora or Fauna or Fungus or Viral?

 

Seriously, no one is slagging him for this act of generosity, but some are just putting it in perspective - same as if Lowe suddenly had a character switch and gave 500k - it waould be a great jesture but it would not change the fact he had contributed to teh need for it in the first place...

 

You just keep digging youself in...

[Nineteen Canteen]

Yes, I also recall John stating quite clearly that on a matter of principle he would cease to attend any home games while Lowe remained in charge of the club. He wrote a lengthy explanation as to why he made that stand and then defended it from attack from others such as you.

 

So John made that decision on the basis that Lowe had got us relegated and John did not want to provide him with any support from his pockets. Fair enough IMO.

 

So what would you say if Lowe were to return now, buying the club for a pittance, or as part of a consortium that would install him as chairman again? I don't need to ask what you'd do; you'd carry on attending. But if others decided that they'd had enough of the sod and boycotted his return, presumably you'd still adopt your stance that as fans they had some sort of duty to pay their hard-earned dosh into the club's coffers regardless.

 

On that basis, it is entirely pointless arguing a matter of principle with you, as you do not understand the concept in this context. If a large proportion of the fan base would boycott a third coming of the arrogant tosspot who has destroyed our club, then John Smith merely had the foresight to see where his second coming would lead and had had enough of him a season earlier than most of the rest of us.

 

Wes your post is indicative of the problem with this club's fanbase. If Mike Osman was CEO I would still buy a Season Ticket the same as if we signed Vincent Pericard on a free and paid him £100k a week. The issue I have with John's post, that you have either missed or don't appreciate, is the double standards he is preaching.

 

In a nutshell he is saying give Crouch a second chance but Lowe had only one? Bit eliteist don't you think? Of course he then back tracks and says he happens to believe Lowe made more than 1 mistake and of course he did, he probably made through his long tenure many mistakes as of course did Crouch through his short tenure.

 

John posts woolly unsubstantianted and sugary nonsense and IMO Lowe was nothing more than a convienient peg to hang his 'I'm not going to buy my two season tickets' and then later comes on and tells us at great length what a wonderful life he has and how successful in his job he is and how revered he is by his clients and how much money he has earned in order to spoil his young family and how he has a new car and so will his wife and not to mention her dream house in the country. (You can tell that took a while for me to get over that post and a while before I could remove the bucket from aside my bed).

 

Still his decision not to renew is fair enough although I suspect the reasoning he gives us is not totally honest. IMO, reading between the lines of which there are many, it's simply a case his priorites have changed so why dress it up to be something it's not as if he has swallowed the book of answers to managerial conundrums.

 

You often accused me of being only a registered member in the past and enjoyed mocking me about waiting for tomorrow's instalment. However, as soon as the forum allowed us to use alternative payment methods I joined eager to mock the mocker. Lets hope Baj and Co can ramp up the server for John's reply tomorrow.

[MarkSFC]

The fact that Leon Crouch is "lending" the football club money is an admirable gesture from someone who I believe wholeheartedly (having spoken in length to him about Saints on 2 or 3 occassions) loves the club as much as the next fan. I do ahve a balanced opinion of LC and think that he has made some poor decisions and publically let himself and the club down. I just hope he is not made to look a fool again.

What excites me though is why he has gone so "quiet" over the last two weeks.

 

At the meeting (and I use that term loosely) which was held a few weeks ago with LM,ST,SOS,SISA,AW, and local councillors, he was desperate for funds to be raised. He and Lawrie were very passionate about the legends game, suggesting it could raise upto £600K. BUT, as we know it wasnt publicised very well and fell by the wayside. Now, if I was him, I would have done everything in my powers to promote the game AND THE REASONS for it, and even have contemplated reducing the tickets to £15. By the way I am not criticising him for not doing more Im just wondering what he knows, because at that meeting he made it very clear that money was needed and you could tell he was worried.

 

My instincts are that he is now preety confident that a buyer will be found, and fairly quickly.

Why else would he gamble what could be anything upto £500K ?

Some may answer that by saying (and you have speculated on here already) that its for his own reasons, i.e. future board involvement, or just to boost his image amongst Saints Fans.

BUT, he could easily have done that by under-writing the legends game, which would have been a far safer bet if promoted properly!!

 

On a side issue I blame the Echo for their "exposees" over that time, rather than being positive and pro-active, but thats a totally different thread!!

 

Therefore, because of his actions I am quietly confident that we will be bought in the next few days, and the club will live on.

[um pahars]

You often accused me of being only a registered member in the past .

 

Methinks you may have missed an S off the end of member;)

[rocknrollman no2]

It all boils down to two things.

Lowe did his best to ruin us,

Crouch is doing his best to save us.

Nuff said.

[scally]

Wes your post is indicative of the problem with this club's fanbase. If Mike Osman was CEO I would still buy a Season Ticket the same as if we signed Vincent Pericard on a free and paid him £100k a week. The issue I have with John's post, that you have either missed or don't appreciate, is the double standards he is preaching.

 

In a nutshell he is saying give Crouch a second chance but Lowe had only one? Bit eliteist don't you think? Of course he then back tracks and says he happens to believe Lowe made more than 1 mistake and of course he did, he probably made through his long tenure many mistakes as of course did Crouch through his short tenure.

 

John posts woolly unsubstantianted and sugary nonsense and IMO Lowe was nothing more than a convienient peg to hang his 'I'm not going to buy my two season tickets' and then later comes on and tells us at great length what a wonderful life he has and how successful in his job he is and how revered he is by his clients and how much money he has earned in order to spoil his young family and how he has a new car and so will his wife and not to mention her dream house in the country. (You can tell that took a while for me to get over that post and a while before I could remove the bucket from aside my bed).

 

Still his decision not to renew is fair enough although I suspect the reasoning he gives us is not totally honest. IMO, reading between the lines of which there are many, it's simply a case his priorites have changed so why dress it up to be something it's not as if he has swallowed the book of answers to managerial conundrums.

 

You often accused me of being only a registered member in the past and enjoyed mocking me about waiting for tomorrow's instalment. However, as soon as the forum allowed us to use alternative payment methods I joined eager to mock the mocker. Lets hope Baj and Co can ramp up the server for John's reply tomorrow.

 

If you think Lowe had only one chance you must be on something.

[um pahars]

Let's be honest, a secured loan to SFC is not exactly some unprecedented philanthropic gesture is it.

 

Considering that we're still on the verge of going under, I would suggest that there is quite a degree of risk attached to this money, even if it is a loan. There is a very real chance that the vast majority of this loan will never be seen again.

 

So in that context it is a rather honourable gesture, and whilst it does not atone for the mistakes that Crouch may have made, it certainly looks like more of a gesture than either of the two other main protagonists have managed.

 

There is another issue to *any* loan like this which I've not seen explained by Mark Fry - the longer this is dragged out, the longer time-wasters will keep us hanging on, the more money Fry will charge, and ultimately there's a case for stating it's less likely we'll find a buyer...

 

I must have missed the many buyers all chomping at the bit and demanding that Fry gets on with it.

 

If there were serious players out there they would have been in by now negotiating hard or even managed to gain a window of exclusivity.

 

The idea that this loan is dragging out the process is fantasy stuff. If there is someone out there who wants to do a deal ( and has the funds to back the talk up), then they would be doing it.

 

Fry may be many things, but the idea that he is using the Crouch money to drag out the process and earn more fees as a result is risible.

Edited 19 May, 2009 by um pahars

[benjii]

It's funny because I was expecting a magnanimous and well-reasoned post from Jonah.

[Nineteen Canteen]

If you think Lowe had only one chance you must be on something.

 

Hanging is to good for him eh Scally?

[View From The Top]

It's funny because I was expecting a magnanimous and well-reasoned post from Jonah.

 

That only happens when his pin up has spoken.

 

Everyone else is too blame and evil.

[um pahars]

It's funny because I was expecting a magnanimous and well-reasoned post from Jonah.

 

I was almost wetting myself when he just had to try and find something negative attached to this gesture by Crouch.

 

And if the best he could come out with is that this gesture is actually stretching out the process and therefore Fry is billing us more:rolleyes:, then I have to say that he really is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I was almost wetting myself when he just had to try and find something negative attached to this gesture by Crouch.

 

And if the best he could come out with is that this gesture is actually stretching out the process and therefore Fry is billing us more:rolleyes:, then I have to say that he really is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

I was told by a respected colleague once that the overuse of exclamation marks in your writings was an indiction of how big a w4nker you were or were dealing with. That was long before the development of emoticons which have made the exclamtion mark redundant - if not the theory.

[Nineteen Canteen]

The fact that Leon Crouch is "lending" the football club money is an admirable gesture from someone who I believe wholeheartedly (having spoken in length to him about Saints on 2 or 3 occassions) loves the club as much as the next fan. I do ahve a balanced opinion of LC and think that he has made some poor decisions and publically let himself and the club down. I just hope he is not made to look a fool again.

What excites me though is why he has gone so "quiet" over the last two weeks.

 

At the meeting (and I use that term loosely) which was held a few weeks ago with LM,ST,SOS,SISA,AW, and local councillors, he was desperate for funds to be raised. He and Lawrie were very passionate about the legends game, suggesting it could raise upto £600K. BUT, as we know it wasnt publicised very well and fell by the wayside. Now, if I was him, I would have done everything in my powers to promote the game AND THE REASONS for it, and even have contemplated reducing the tickets to £15. By the way I am not criticising him for not doing more Im just wondering what he knows, because at that meeting he made it very clear that money was needed and you could tell he was worried.

 

My instincts are that he is now preety confident that a buyer will be found, and fairly quickly.

Why else would he gamble what could be anything upto £500K ?

Some may answer that by saying (and you have speculated on here already) that its for his own reasons, i.e. future board involvement, or just to boost his image amongst Saints Fans.

BUT, he could easily have done that by under-writing the legends game, which would have been a far safer bet if promoted properly!!

 

On a side issue I blame the Echo for their "exposees" over that time, rather than being positive and pro-active, but thats a totally different thread!!

 

Therefore, because of his actions I am quietly confident that we will be bought in the next few days, and the club will live on.

 

An interesting read and perhaps not surprising it has gone unread or ignored for the usual cheap shots at others. I hope your last sentence is not a false prophecy because Crouch has been quite good at delivering those to us in the past.

 

For the record I don't share your analysis of the situation and if he believed the legends game would raise £600k then IMO that shows poor judgement and therefore perhaps not surprising he may consider pumping cash into a dying swan. Equally your opinion could also be correct if of course you like me are talking purely based on opinion.

 

You are excited by his silence over the past two weeks personally I am simply relieved.

 

Out of interest what was your role at the meeting and the assessment of it's benefits, conclusion or further actions? I would read your reply with interest as you seem to disparage it's purpose or the way it was held at least.

[um pahars]

I was told by a respected colleague .

 

Was that someone from Leeds, Charlton, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury , Southampton etc etc etc???

 

And was that when you were Sundance, Nineteen, Third Bear, Flashman etc etc etc???

 

No wonder you forget what you post up on here!!!!!!!!!!

[Nineteen Canteen]

Was that someone from Leeds, Charlton, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury , Southampton etc etc etc???

 

And was that when you were Sundance, Nineteen, Third Bear, Flashman etc etc etc???

 

No wonder you forget what you post up on here!!!!!!!!!!

 

The theory lives on. Nice cut and paste by the way Um.

 

(Note to Admin: Would it be possible to prevent posters to alter previous posts in any way other than their own? Might actually encourage debate or comment instead of convieniently ignoring the issue raised. It's getting beyond a joke!!!!!!!!!!) ;):o:):smt041:smt075

[um pahars]

It's getting beyond a joke!!!!!!!!!!)

 

It must be very difficult rying to work out who you are going to support from one year to the next.

 

So tell us more about your Charlton/Leeds/Basingstoke/Andover/Salisbury supporting days???????? Who did you feel the most connection to????

 

And just why have you felt it necessary to go through so many identities on here?????? Banned, bored or just trolling????

[DaintyDave]

Note to Admin: Please retain the function that allows posters to alter their OWN posts when they realise that they are talking ******.

 

"Would it be possible to prevent posters to alter previous posts"...........is actually the most sensible thing you've ever posted, and it is complete nonsense.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Note to Admin: Please retain the function that allows posters to alter their OWN posts when they realise that they are talking ******.

 

"Would it be possible to prevent posters to alter previous posts"...........is actually the most sensible thing you've ever posted, and it is complete nonsense.

 

Dainty, I bet you're welcome in book shops and newsagents when you go in ripping out pages from their stock that you don't agree with. A post is a persons opinion and if referred to by subsequent posters should not be altered in anyway especially when the subsequent context of the opinion gets lost further down the thread. I am not referring to the rights of an administrator / mod btw.

[Nineteen Canteen]

It must be very difficult rying to work out who you are going to support from one year to the next.

 

So tell us more about your Charlton/Leeds/Basingstoke/Andover/Salisbury supporting days???????? Who did you feel the most connection to????

 

And just why have you felt it necessary to go through so many identities on here?????? Banned, bored or just trolling????

 

Forgot to mention the theory applies to all punctuation that is repeated more than once at the point it is required. (Sorry to add those last 6 words but I know what a pedant you can be)

[MarkSFC]

An interesting read and perhaps not surprising it has gone unread or ignored for the usual cheap shots at others. I hope your last sentence is not a false prophecy because Crouch has been quite good at delivering those to us in the past.

 

For the record I don't share your analysis of the situation and if he believed the legends game would raise £600k then IMO that shows poor judgement and therefore perhaps not surprising he may consider pumping cash into a dying swan. Equally your opinion could also be correct if of course you like me are talking purely based on opinion.

 

You are excited by his silence over the past two weeks personally I am simply relieved.

 

Out of interest what was your role at the meeting and the assessment of it's benefits, conclusion or further actions? I would read your reply with interest as you seem to disparage it's purpose or the way it was held at least.

 

NC, I agree with your statement of poor judgement but it was merely a target fugure based on sell-out. I think it was made in hope rather than expecatation.

 

His silence is relieving, but because of my impression of his motives and desire for the survival of Saints, my instincts are that something is afoot.

 

My "role" at the meeting as you put it was nothing more than an invitee as part of the SOS group. There was no agenda produced, either before or on the night. The meeting was not very well run, and there were one or two egos on show, which led to, IMO, a break down in what could and should have been a very constructive event. I have no idea who you are so I will not lay bare on here all my feelings, suffice it to say, and I have posted on here previously a summary of events as I saw it, there were people at the meeting who let themselves down and missed an opportunity to - at least temporarily -unite (albeit very unlikely if not impossible) the different fractions of supporters, in our hour of need.

 

There was no doubting that every person in the room is a passionate "fan" of SFC, but IMO, there were hidden agendas dictating.

 

As someone who believes a fan-owned club in the truest sense could work ( but doesnt ideally want one) the meeting made me realise why such a project is so verhemently oppossed by some, because there are certain fans who couldnt organise the preverbial P*** up in a brewery.

 

The future will hopefully be with a new "very wealthy" owner (I live in eternal optimism!!) BUT I am worried that if this does not happen, and the club doe shave to be re-formed then the right "FANS" need to be in control, not "the lunatic fringe" as someone once put it. I mean it in the literal sense, not in describing the masses.

 

HTH

[Nineteen Canteen]

NC, I agree with your statement of poor judgement but it was merely a target fugure based on sell-out. I think it was made in hope rather than expecatation.

 

His silence is relieving, but because of my impression of his motives and desire for the survival of Saints, my instincts are that something is afoot.

 

My "role" at the meeting as you put it was nothing more than an invitee as part of the SOS group. There was no agenda produced, either before or on the night. The meeting was not very well run, and there were one or two egos on show, which led to, IMO, a break down in what could and should have been a very constructive event. I have no idea who you are so I will not lay bare on here all my feelings, suffice it to say, and I have posted on here previously a summary of events as I saw it, there were people at the meeting who let themselves down and missed an opportunity to - at least temporarily -unite (albeit very unlikely if not impossible) the different fractions of supporters, in our hour of need.

 

There was no doubting that every person in the room is a passionate "fan" of SFC, but IMO, there were hidden agendas dictating.

 

As someone who believes a fan-owned club in the truest sense could work ( but doesnt ideally want one) the meeting made me realise why such a project is so verhemently oppossed by some, because there are certain fans who couldnt organise the preverbial P*** up in a brewery.

 

The future will hopefully be with a new "very wealthy" owner (I live in eternal optimism!!) BUT I am worried that if this does not happen, and the club doe shave to be re-formed then the right "FANS" need to be in control, not "the lunatic fringe" as someone once put it. I mean it in the literal sense, not in describing the masses.

 

HTH

 

Mark thanks for the reply. Again another interesting read and more than useful. I am not surprised by your description of the meeting in fact the opposite result would have surprised me greatly and it is why i am so vehemently against fan run clubs especially in case the playground bully is inadvertently elected or worse some kind of mob rule. In my experience at similar meetings it is those who say nothing who have the most salient things to say but tend to go unheard if there is not a strong meeting chairman.

 

I sincerely hope your instincts prove to be well founded and we welcome a new owner with a clean slate of senior personnel with no role for any director past or present regardless of subsequent good deeds.

[MarkSFC]

Mark thanks for the reply. Again another interesting read and more than useful. I am not surprised by your description of the meeting in fact the opposite result would have surprised me greatly and it is why i am so vehemently against fan run clubs especially in case the playground bully is inadvertently elected or worse some kind of mob rule. In my experience at similar meetings it is those who say nothing who have the most salient things to say but tend to go unheard if there is not a strong meeting chairman..

 

There are definitely ways round mob rule, by putting in stringent election rules, but its not going to come to that...I hope!

 

 

I sincerely hope your instincts prove to be well founded and we welcome a new owner with a clean slate of senior personnel with no role for any director past or present regardless of subsequent good deeds.

 

Couldn't agree more with these sentiments, EVERYONE previously involved in any decision-making capacity should go in a total clean sweep. The only ties to the past should be the fans and ex-players.

[cambsaint]

Nineteen C : Perhaps you will ask your Uncle Rupert why after milking the club of millions in dividends, salary, expenses, and payoffs, he didn't try to rescue Saints by either organising debenture loans from the major shareholders or a rights issue.

It mystifies me.

And I'm sure you are in a position to ask or even reply.

[John B]

I am quite happy for Leon to spend his money on SFC but would not so happy for Leon to be running the club as supporters usually get too emotionally involved .

[Daren W]

Anybody care to answer Deano's question with some facts and perhaps address the points made by NickH and Frank?

 

If he has paid his own money to cover wages I'm not sure I understand why he did not arrange to negotiate a salary reduction of some of the highest earners. If he didn't isn't he throwing good money after bad? Does this show him to be generous or foolish?

 

Also, whilst he may risk losing all the money he has contributed as some suggest on this thread that doesn't sound to me like a donation in the purest sense of the word.

 

Is it a loan, interest bearing or otherwise? Is it a guarantee for a future position at the club? Does he have a vested interest in the Pinnacle bid and perhaps willing to risk the up front fees? Is it a gesture of simple good will or a donation borne out of guilt?

 

His cash contribution whatever is of course very welcome and comes with thanks and gratitude from all fans but I'll reserve my full praise until the answers to some pertinent questions have been given and remain at this moment unconvinced he is the Mother Teresa of SFC.

 

In any event give Crouch a role or a voice within the club in the future and IMO any forward thinking owner would have regressed 5 years before they've even started.

 

 

FFS, the man pays money out of his own pocket to keep this club alive (unlike your employer/lover/controller) and you can't even post a simple thank you without sniping and carping...

 

What a throughly unpleasant piece of crap you are...

Edited 20 May, 2009 by Daren W

[stanthemanfairoak]

I am quite happy for Leon to spend his money on SFC but would not so happy for Leon to be running the club as supporters usually get too emotionally involved .

better to have SOMEONE involved than NO ONE AT ALL!

[saintalan]

For those that want as much of Leon's money as possible with as little of him as possible seems to me like watching the end of 'Deal or No Deal' first.

 

Given the question "Leon buys club (or you take the outcome of the Administrator) - Deal or No Deal?"

 

I know it's not a true scenario but the question is NOW! Deal or No Deal.

 

Me - Deal.

[John B]

better to have SOMEONE involved than NO ONE AT ALL!

 

Sorry I dont agree.