I heard tonight

[dubai_phil]

Hi Phil I do hope your golf went well

 

You know what? My swing was as good as it ever was today but still lost 8-0 in 9 holes - my WORST round of golf EVER I got totally blown away by the wind, still better luck Thursday, better be, I lost 9 balls in 9 holes as well as my temper. Perhaps my mind was elsewhere?

[eelpie]

It's bizarre though. We were reducing the debt, by all accounts we'd knocked 2 million off the overdraft in one season. If Barclays hadn't forced us into administration there was a real chance that they would eventually have got all their money.

 

So yes it is greedy.

 

Foolish too. Barclays deserve to lose out imho.

[aintforever]

I dont know if it is possible but the players registrations may be able to be held or quickly sold before liquidation.Only a guess

 

Never happen, the players agents will just tell them to sit and wait until liquidation. Plus no club will pay a fee if they pretty much know they can get them for nothing if SFC folds

[thorpie the sinner]

You know what? My swing was as good as it ever was today but still lost 8-0 in 9 holes - my WORST round of golf EVER I got totally blown away by the wind, still better luck Thursday, better be, I lost 9 balls in 9 holes as well as my temper. Perhaps my mind was elsewhere?

 

God knows where??

[trousers]

that, in the traumatic circumstances, the creditors are being a little too greedy. (Perhaps "unrealistic" or even "over ambitious" would be a better choice of adverb than "greedy")

 

Excellent source.

 

Sounds like Lowe was close to the crux of the matter in his post-Admin interview with Sky News perhaps? The one where he said he feared for the safety of Barclays branches in the Southampton area if/when the 'truth got out' (or words to that effect - I'm probably paraphrasing him badly there but that was the drift of his response at the time)

[Viking Warrior]

I lost 9 balls in 9 holes

 

God you must be a scratch Golfer Phil losing so many balls. I can see you now

scratching yer head wondering where your balls went.

Still I thought it was nigh on impossible to lose balls in the sand out there.

 

Do they still have browns instead of green there. Or are paying on a lush golf course fully irrigated. . Talking of grass perhaps somebody out there could buy the turf from sms and use it as a putting green out there. Will be worth a

a few thousand pounds,

.

Back to reality. the sad thing re the demise of saints and no buyer will be the loss of so many backroom staff. Will Norwich Union and Barclays be responsible for the security of the empty stadium or will they leave it get into such a dilapidated state that the Council have to demolish it on health and safety grounds?

[SaintDonkey]

It's all well and good saying that the club will be forced to sale the assets to pay the players wages etc but you have to have a willing buyer...ok maybe the academy house could be sold fairly quickly but jacksons farm and staplewood are virtually worthless to a developer.I just cannot see this option being a quick one,especially in this financial climate....people are just not willing to part with their cash and that also applies to millionaires.

 

What worries me is not that I think that the creditors could do better than whatever pinnacle is offering, but that the creditors think they can.

 

It doesn't actually matter that winding up the company would bring in less than selling to Pinnacle. It only matters that Barclays think it might bring in more.

[StuRomseySaint]

Back to reality. the sad thing re the demise of saints and no buyer will be the loss of so many backroom staff. Will Norwich Union and Barclays be responsible for the security of the empty stadium or will they leave it get into such a dilapidated state that the Council have to demolish it on health and safety grounds?

 

Remember The Valley, and how it was when Charlton went bust?

 

[Chez]

why is Marchwood not worth much to a developer? As I understood it because changing rooms wtc have been built it moves from being a greenfield site to a brownfield site making it a lot easier to get planning permission for future development.

[Gemmel]

why is Marchwood not worth much to a developer? As I understood it because changing rooms wtc have been built it moves from being a greenfield site to a brownfield site making it a lot easier to get planning permission for future development.

 

We only own part of staplewood

[Clapham Saint]

Right, have been reading the thread on the ipod but my laptop is knackered so I've had to wait for the Mrs to finish shoe shopping (or whatever it is she does) to borrow hers.

 

I think the best way to look at this is what would happen to each asset in either circumstance.

 

In broad terms...

1) Southampton FC (excluding players)

 

Sale to consortium - Will have some value, amount depends on who you want to listen to so for simplicity let’s say £1 million?

 

Fire sale - Ceases to exist £Nil

 

From a creditors persective Sale wins £1m - £Nil

 

 

2) Jacksons Farm,

 

This land can be sold separately in either scenario. If a consortium wants to buy a football club I would suggest they probably wouldn't want JF anyway. If they do want JF then they can buy it separately.

 

Score draw

 

 

3) Staplewood.

 

I'm not sure of the freehold/leasehold situation or restrictions on sale mentioned by some but I would suggest its probably worth more if sold to a football team wanting to use it.

 

If the administrator thinks that he can sell the land to a developer and a consortium can't match the price then it isn't the end of the world. As mentioned by others we COULD use alternative facilities if we had to.

 

Probably more money for creditors if the club is sold

 

4) The Academy House and any other non-stadium assets.

 

As above. Would be nice to keep them but ultimately if they were sold elsewhere then it shouldn't prevent a sale of the club.

 

Although they may be involved as "negotiating chips" probably not "deal breakers" either way.

 

Score draw

 

5) Players

 

In a sale to a consortium they will have some value but any purchaser would also be taking on the fairly substantial liability of their wages which will reduce the amount that you would be prepared to pay for them. Say £5m?

 

In a break up basis - (Credit to SRS) All players would be able to give 14 days notice and leave. Value achieved for creditors £Nil.

 

 

 

6) St Mary's

 

Slightly more complicated as the coucil comes into play.

 

Although I'm happy to be corrected my expectation is:

 

i) The land is worth little to a property investor. The cost of demolishing the stadium, dealing with any contamination issues from the gas works etc are likely to be prohibitive.

 

ii) Some offices could be built on the side furthest way from the gas works but again there is nothing to stop the administrator selling the stadium but holding this stip of land back to sell elsewhere.

 

iii) The most likely purchaser is the council who would probably pay more if they were supporting the club rather than just buying an otherwise derelict site.

 

Again I can't see a situation whereby more money is raised by not having a football club in existence, either to buy the stadium or as a tennant for a 3rd party (coucil or otherwise) investor.

 

 

Now although the above is a simplistic analysis, IMO any offer being made by a consortium would have to be truely pathetic for the creditors not to be foreced to take it eventually.

 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I lost 9 balls in 9 holes

 

God you must be a scratch Golfer Phil losing so many balls. I can see you now

scratching yer head wondering where your balls went.

Still I thought it was nigh on impossible to lose balls in the sand out there.

 

Do they still have browns instead of green there. Or are paying on a lush golf course fully irrigated. . Talking of grass perhaps somebody out there could buy the turf from sms and use it as a putting green out there. Will be worth a

a few thousand pounds,

.

Back to reality. the sad thing re the demise of saints and no buyer will be the loss of so many backroom staff. Will Norwich Union and Barclays be responsible for the security of the empty stadium or will they leave it get into such a dilapidated state that the Council have to demolish it on health and safety grounds?

 

 

Probably the most meaningless post of the year

[rallyboy]

Owing someone £100K is your problem, owing £24M is most definitely THEIR problem.

 

I don't see how the main creditors could benefit from the club folding, there isn't anything worth selling.

Barclays are at the back of the queue so they will get nowt, Norwich Union might get a stadium that is worth 3 or 4 million if they can sell it to someone else like the council, but even they need a club to cover some rent so without a club there is little hope of selling SMS - NU's best deal is getting maybe a million a year for the next dozen years.

Common sense says they must agree debt-restructuring with new owners to have any hope of getting some money back.

If I was a consortium I would play hardball because these two creditors have got nothing to bargain with, you could tell them how much they are going to get or they could whistle for it, and this has become less-risky since relegation.

Lg One or the conference? We ain't talking about the Prem so close us down and wave goodbye to the whole lot the pair of you if you want to threaten the only people likely to give you some of your money back, could be one hardline approach.

Good luck with planning for the stadium Mr NU, you will be the proud owner of a white elephant if you don't accept new terms, welcome to 2009!

 

Hopefully it won't come to that and they can all get together and play nicely but a few financial institutions have to re-position themselves realistically post-crunch.

 

And on a PR level, if it all goes pear-shaped and the two main creditors are one day shown to have closed Southampton FC, their businesses in the city could be shot to bits for a generation and beyond.

[Gemmel]

Owing someone £100K is your problem, owing £24M is most definitely THEIR problem.

 

I don't see how the main creditors could benefit from the club folding, there isn't anything worth selling.

Barclays are at the back of the queue so they will get nowt, Norwich Union might get a stadium that is worth 3 or 4 million if they can sell it to someone else like the council, but even they need a club to cover some rent so without a club there is little hope of selling SMS - NU's best deal is getting maybe a million a year for the next dozen years.

Common sense says they must agree debt-restructuring with new owners to have any hope of getting some money back.

If I was a consortium I would play hardball because these two creditors have got nothing to bargain with, you could tell them how much they are going to get or they could whistle for it, and this has become less-risky since relegation.

Lg One or the conference? We ain't talking about the Prem so close us down and wave goodbye to the whole lot the pair of you if you want to threaten the only people likely to give you some of your money back, could be one hardline approach.

Good luck with planning for the stadium Mr NU, you will be the proud owner of a white elephant if you don't accept new terms, welcome to 2009!

 

Hopefully it won't come to that and they can all get together and play nicely but a few financial institutions have to re-position themselves realistically post-crunch.

 

And on a PR level, if it all goes pear-shaped and the two main creditors are one day shown to have closed Southampton FC, their businesses in the city could be shot to bits for a generation and beyond.

 

 

Lot of truth in that

[Clapham Saint]

Owing someone £100K is your problem, owing £24M is most definitely THEIR problem.

 

I don't see how the main creditors could benefit from the club folding, there isn't anything worth selling.

Barclays are at the back of the queue so they will get nowt, Norwich Union might get a stadium that is worth 3 or 4 million if they can sell it to someone else like the council, but even they need a club to cover some rent so without a club there is little hope of selling SMS - NU's best deal is getting maybe a million a year for the next dozen years.

Common sense says they must agree debt-restructuring with new owners to have any hope of getting some money back.

If I was a consortium I would play hardball because these two creditors have got nothing to bargain with, you could tell them how much they are going to get or they could whistle for it, and this has become less-risky since relegation.

Lg One or the conference? We ain't talking about the Prem so close us down and wave goodbye to the whole lot the pair of you if you want to threaten the only people likely to give you some of your money back, could be one hardline approach.

Good luck with planning for the stadium Mr NU, you will be the proud owner of a white elephant if you don't accept new terms, welcome to 2009!

 

Hopefully it won't come to that and they can all get together and play nicely but a few financial institutions have to re-position themselves realistically post-crunch.

 

And on a PR level, if it all goes pear-shaped and the two main creditors are one day shown to have closed Southampton FC, their businesses in the city could be shot to bits for a generation and beyond.

 

Exactly

[INFLUENCED.COM]

maybe a million a year for the next dozen years.

 

Thats a starting point for negotiations

 

 

If I was a consortium I would play hardball because these two creditors have got nothing to bargain with

 

And we as fans get the benefit of further investment in progress up the table/leagues

 

 

Good luck with planning for the stadium Mr NU, you will be the proud owner of a white elephant if you don't accept new terms, welcome to 2009!

 

2009, where the last known white elephant has been transformed into a very popular venue ?

 

And on a PR level, if it all goes pear-shaped and the two main creditors are one day shown to have closed Southampton FC, their businesses in the city could be shot to bits for a generation and beyond.

 

Although post relegation you may not choose to deal with the said creditors, if you already do and have done for some time you tend to find yourself in a similar position to the club, they have you by the bowlocks but your waiting for the upturn to **** off to someone who has finally sat off of their hands

[Weston Saint]

My money is on us not finding a buyer. Bid on the table rejected by Administrator. Pinnacle led bid never materialised. Pinnacle saying they can still put something together suggests they are looking for a money man again. Unlikely in my opinion.

 

Genuine overseas interest this morming seems not to have materialised later this afternoon.

 

Plenty of genuine best intentions but when push comes to shove the real money men fail the test.

 

I don't expect a positive outcome to our Administration. I am quite depressed about the whole situation this evening

[CanadaSaint]

I wouldn't overplay this "Norwich Union/Aviva have nothing to bargain with" argument, although I do tend to agree that their hand isn't too strong.

 

While it's dead right that the stadium is useless without a football team, let's not forget that the reverse is also true.

 

And that is probably why we're where we are today.

 

I'll never forget a negotiating lecture I attended many years ago. The lecturer said "You make your pitch, you overcome objections, and then do you know what you do next?"

 

"You shut the f*ck up, because the first guy that talks, loses".

 

Until the respective parties have sussed out their opponents' final positions, we'll continue to be stuck between what we've been and what we hope to be.

 

And I'm sure Mr. Fry is skillful enough to use the media to get a message across, and yet never allow himself to be used by the media.

 

I'm not too worried. Yet.

[StuRomseySaint]

Let's also not forget that aviva employ almost 3000 staff in the chandlers ford, eastleigh area, who have continuously outgrown their offices and are now spread over half a dozen offices.... Far from ideal.

 

I am sure they would see the stadium land as a perfect place to build their new hq to house all of their healthcare division.

[Stirchleysaint]

So this rumour about egg-chasers being after the stadium then doesn't worry people?

[CanadaSaint]

So this rumour about egg-chasers being after the stadium then doesn't worry people?

 

Surely they can co-exist. That completely transforms the business model because single usages never seem to work out too well.

[Viking Warrior]

FF stated Probably the most meaningless post of the year

 

 

Wheres your sense of humour Duncan? Yes the news has been very depressive today however my post was in response to Dubai Phils post and his poor golfing ability.

 

If you have never been to the middle east or served in cyprus.

then you will have missed the context of my post.

 

When I played there the greens were a mixture of sand and Oil and not traditional grass as you have over here they were called browns for obvious reasons.

 

Back to the lack of takeover. if there is no buyer for the club then in the worse case scenario is there not the prospect of the stadium being demolished etc etc or do you honestly believe we have a real bidder lurking behind the scenes?

At the moment I have to come to terms with the prospect that the club may no longer exist in the next couple of weeks. I hope to god I am wrong and you and Dave B have the ability to continue to write further chapters on the History of the saints.

[Amesbury Saint]

My money is on us not finding a buyer. Bid on the table rejected by Administrator. Pinnacle led bid never materialised. Pinnacle saying they can still put something together suggests they are looking for a money man again. Unlikely in my opinion.

 

Genuine overseas interest this morming seems not to have materialised later this afternoon.

 

Plenty of genuine best intentions but when push comes to shove the real money men fail the test.

 

I don't expect a positive outcome to our Administration. I am quite depressed about the whole situation this evening

 

with so much written by others today I was looking for your post. But it provides little encouragement.

 

If the bid on the table is greater than the breakup value of the club, the Administrator should accept it?

[Block 5]

Let's boycott Barclays and Aviva.

[Amesbury Saint]

Let's boycott Barclays and Aviva.

 

or lets borrow silly amounts of money from them and then not pay it back!

[Delmary]

My money is on us not finding a buyer. Bid on the table rejected by Administrator. Pinnacle led bid never materialised. Pinnacle saying they can still put something together suggests they are looking for a money man again. Unlikely in my opinion.

 

Genuine overseas interest this morming seems not to have materialised later this afternoon.

 

Plenty of genuine best intentions but when push comes to shove the real money men fail the test.

 

I don't expect a positive outcome to our Administration. I am quite depressed about the whole situation this evening

I hope you're wrong. I do find it amazing that a club of our size and history is struggling to find a buyer but I suppose it's the sign of the times.

[Block 5]

or lets borrow silly amounts of money from them and then not pay it back!

 

Great idea Amesbury. I will pop into Barclays tomorrow and ask for a £4M overdraft.

:cool:

[CanadaSaint]

Plenty of genuine best intentions but when push comes to shove the real money men fail the test.

 

Or, Ron, demonstrate how they got to be real money men in the first place.

 

This is just like the game itself. We're spectators, with our reactions tightly attached to our hearts.

 

They are businessmen, with their actions tightly attached to their wallets and financial statements.

 

God, and we thought the last few games of relegation near-misses were hard to get through. They've got nothing on this!

[trousers]

with so much written by others today I was looking for your post. But it provides little encouragement.

 

If the bid on the table is greater than the breakup value of the club, the Administrator should accept it?

 

You'd have thought so. Remind me what the 'breakup value' is again? (apologies, I guess it's been posted on here several hundred times but brain tends to turn to jelly after a while...)

[Amesbury Saint]

You'd have thought so. Remind me what the 'breakup value' is again? (apologies, I guess it's been posted on here several hundred times but brain tends to turn to jelly after a while...)

 

Company accounts are prepared on the basis of being a going concern - debtors pay their bills, no quick sales of fixed assets needed etc.

 

When a company goes bust assets are sold off quicky, rarely getting the full value.

 

So the break up value of a company is often lower.

 

Simplistically if you have 3 months to sell your house you will get a better price than if you have to sell it by Thursday.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Owing someone £100K is your problem, owing £24M is most definitely THEIR problem.

 

I don't see how the main creditors could benefit from the club folding, there isn't anything worth selling.

Barclays are at the back of the queue so they will get nowt, Norwich Union might get a stadium that is worth 3 or 4 million if they can sell it to someone else like the council, but even they need a club to cover some rent so without a club there is little hope of selling SMS - NU's best deal is getting maybe a million a year for the next dozen years.

Common sense says they must agree debt-restructuring with new owners to have any hope of getting some money back.

If I was a consortium I would play hardball because these two creditors have got nothing to bargain with, you could tell them how much they are going to get or they could whistle for it, and this has become less-risky since relegation.

Lg One or the conference? We ain't talking about the Prem so close us down and wave goodbye to the whole lot the pair of you if you want to threaten the only people likely to give you some of your money back, could be one hardline approach.

Good luck with planning for the stadium Mr NU, you will be the proud owner of a white elephant if you don't accept new terms, welcome to 2009!

 

Hopefully it won't come to that and they can all get together and play nicely but a few financial institutions have to re-position themselves realistically post-crunch.

 

And on a PR level, if it all goes pear-shaped and the two main creditors are one day shown to have closed Southampton FC, their businesses in the city could be shot to bits for a generation and beyond.

 

It's not just the FIs who have to reposition themselves so do the clubs and their fans. We have learned the hard way with regard to realism and not adapting to the prevailing conditions. I don't think NU's or Barclay's reputation will be ruined in the city for a generation. Money talks and I have no qualms about opening my new Isa with Barclays at 3.6% when my current ISA was paying 0.5%.

 

Other than that your post along with Clapham's is very enlightening and somewhat reassuring.

[Nineteen Canteen]

My money is on us not finding a buyer. Bid on the table rejected by Administrator. Pinnacle led bid never materialised. Pinnacle saying they can still put something together suggests they are looking for a money man again. Unlikely in my opinion.

 

Genuine overseas interest this morming seems not to have materialised later this afternoon.

 

Plenty of genuine best intentions but when push comes to shove the real money men fail the test.

 

I don't expect a positive outcome to our Administration. I am quite depressed about the whole situation this evening

 

Tonight it seems, 'The prince of darkness is a gentleman'. With all due respect to you Weston, as the harbinger of a deepening depression.

 

'Ambition's debt is paid', at least it seems that way tonight, and apologies for going all Shakespearian. Could have been worse and quoted Macbeth or Richard III but Lear and Caesar seemed more appropriate in these mad times.

[Rem]

So, this could be it! The death of our beloved club, broken up and sold as scrap.

 

Southampton FC - Rest in Pieces?

 

I hope not.

[Perennial Underachiever]

My money is on us not finding a buyer. Bid on the table rejected by Administrator. Pinnacle led bid never materialised. Pinnacle saying they can still put something together suggests they are looking for a money man again. Unlikely in my opinion.

 

Genuine overseas interest this morming seems not to have materialised later this afternoon.

 

Plenty of genuine best intentions but when push comes to shove the real money men fail the test.

 

I don't expect a positive outcome to our Administration. I am quite depressed about the whole situation this evening

 

The best we can hope for now is that some '11th hour' bid shows up before the worst happens. It's very sad but unless someone pulls off a miracle then I can't see our club in any league next season.

[Window Cleaner]

Exactly

 

Well not exactly, it depends how much that Rugby wallah has bid for the Stadium doesn't it.

The Stadium is worth money, cost 32 million to build and now people are trying to buy it as part of a lock stock and barrel deal for a couple of million!!

 

I reckon Pompey would give more than that;

[Saint Without a Halo]

Fair enough, but in any case, if the yes or no is a matter of a couple of million, then I am seriously worried about the financial clout of any of these investors... SFC is a bargain investment in the current situation, and paying a extra few million is not going to make a massive difference in the grand scheme of things.[/quote

 

 

If SFC were a bargain investment as you say then why are people not queing up to buy it?

 

answer is it is not a bargain investment, you have to pay part of the clubs debts (in your purchase price) it couldn't pay when operating and you have to recover your money on league one advertising and gates whilst paying for a premier level stadium and championship wages and set up.

 

Doesn't look that great a deal to me?

 

Any buyer needs to be sure he can recover what he is paying via the operating business going forward. Whilst the administrator needs to get the most back for his creditors.

 

I suspect the equation is well known to both sides following due diligence and that both sides are engaging in a little brinkmanship to sweeten the deal from their perspective.

[thorpie the sinner]

I have to say, when you see a negative post from a respected poster like WS, you have to worry! We are looking for a miracle it seems!

[um pahars]

If SFC were a bargain investment as you say then why are people not queing up to buy it?

 

answer is it is not a bargain investment, you have to pay part of the clubs debts (in your purchase price) it couldn't pay when operating and you have to recover your money on league one advertising and gates whilst paying for a premier level stadium and championship wages and set up.

 

Doesn't look that great a deal to me?

 

My big worry as well.

 

There is a chance to renegotiate the main debts, there is a chance to wipe out other debt, a number of high wedge contracts are coming to an end and yet we still don't look to be anywhere near a decent enough investment to the outside world.

 

I do wonder whether the whole structure that has been set up is just unworkable outside of the top flight, regardless of what cost cutting is undertaken????

[um pahars]

Money talks and I have no qualms about opening my new Isa with Barclays at 3.6% when my current ISA was paying 0.5%.

 

You'd have no qualms going off and supporting Leeds, Charlton, Andover, Basingstoke or Salisbury;)

 

Any others you missed telling us about LOL

[Saint Without a Halo]

I have to say, when you see a negative post from a respected poster like WS, you have to worry! We are looking for a miracle it seems!

 

Lets be positive the only value you can put on a stadium in southampton has to be from a buyer that intends to run a football team in this city!

 

That means a buyer is more likely to provide a better return to Barclays and the other creditors than a sale of the assets. That means we are more likelty to be bought than to be wound up!

 

Patience is yet again called for! a thing we saints fans have had in spades over the last six years!

[Window Cleaner]

My big worry as well.

 

There is a chance to renegotiate the main debts, there is a chance to wipe out other debt, a number of high wedge contracts are coming to an end and yet we still don't look to be anywhere near a decent enough investment to the outside world.

 

I do wonder whether the whole structure that has been set up is just unworkable outside of the top flight, regardless of what cost cutting is undertaken????

 

 

 

Well taking the season before this last one as a reference we still had reasonable gates for the CCC but made a huge loss, even though we sold players to the tune of over 12 million. Tends to indicate that our revenue stream is p*ss poor, concessions forming a too high percentage perhaps.

I think I worked out once that the average ticket price was about £13,take the VAT out of that and it's about £11.50,which is about conference level.

[David Strover]

You'd have no qualms going off and supporting Leeds, Charlton, Andover, Basingstoke or Salisbury;)

 

Any others you missed telling us about LOL

 

Don't forget Norwich - they've sold 18000 season tickets - they're magnificent.

[Window Cleaner]

Don't forget Norwich - they've sold 18000 season tickets - they're magnificent.

 

I don't think our support really is that loyal.

Doubt if we even sold that number in the premiership.

 

I looked at their prices nigh on 400£ seems a lot for League 1 football.However the concessions are bargain basement.

[northam soul]

It says in todays echo that Crouch funded some of Aprils wages and is doing the same this month, this is in top of the 50k he put in.

Fair play to the guy if true.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

You'd have no qualms going off and supporting Leeds, Charlton, Andover, Basingstoke or Salisbury;)

 

Any others you missed telling us about LOL

 

Certain people have principles. Normally the less well off. Which comes first, lack of cash or having principles, I'm not sure of. Some are financially well off but morally bankrupt.

[Clapham Saint]

Well not exactly, it depends how much that Rugby wallah has bid for the Stadium doesn't it.

The Stadium is worth money, cost 32 million to build and now people are trying to buy it as part of a lock stock and barrel deal for a couple of million!!

 

I reckon Pompey would give more than that;

 

Ok, saying they have NOTHING to negotiate with is probably a little oft but they don't have a strong hand.

 

At the moment (as somebody said above) it's a case of shutting up and seeing who blinks first.

 

IMO opinion the creditors have more to lose than the consortium if they **** it up.

 

EDIT: and Pompey are NOT going to even make an offer for SMS, don't be silly

Edited 19 May, 2009 by Clapham Saint

[Frank's cousin]

SO this must mean AVIVA todate have not been willing to discuss a refinance package that would seem them get ALL their loan back + interest - by either extending teh terms but reducing payments? Because it would then be that someone could probably buy teh club for as little as £1 + paying off the 6 mil overdraft and keeping the stadium on new terms. Or it means that those biddding dont even have this sort of cash available....

[Special K]

If anyone expects the main creditors to back off and not pursue getting as much as they can whilst there are deals "on the table", then they are mistaken. They will be under a lot of pressure to get the best they can; it's the natural course of events. The cat and mouse 11th hour games have begun. I'm watching with interest.

[dubai_phil]

Just a thought.

 

Maybe Aviva don't really care too much what they get?

 

As in no doubt during the whole "Banking Loony Years" the actual mortgage itself has been diced, sliced and sold off to about a thousand different people as one of those bond/derivative type things..

 

Which somewhere down the line has possibly popped up as a "Toxic Debt", may even have been paid off by good Ol Gord with your tax money all ready

 

No idea quite how it works but somehow I expect they could be happy to get anything back, as the "loss" on a bad loan may have laready been written off and anything now comes in as new profit and a nice fat bonus cheque for the manager who gets it in.

 

Any experts out there?

[Weston Saint]

We need to look at the market. There is no billionaire out there willing to buy Saints as a toy. The only interest so far has been from businessmen who will expect to see a return on their investment.

 

There has been talk on here of restructuring the debt with Aviva. Any potential buyer will not want to do that. He will want to purchase the stadium for as cheap as possible. Restructured debt is a continued millstone around the neck.

 

Some talk about a separate buyer of the stadium. Any potential buyer of the football club will not want to have to pay rent and lose income from other uses.

 

Let's not blame Aviva for any of this. They have been very helpful and understanding up to now. It is not their fault the business is in the mess it is.

 

Barclays may be a different story as they seemed to allow the Hone regime increase the debt imprudently. They took the risk and should be in the queue of blame after the Board of Directors.