Solent news.

[saintjay77]

Is that a silly question?

 

Read this again:

If we are still in existence next season and that board of jokers have all gone, then I'd take the hit of ten points and the drop down to league one, gladly.

 

See what I'm saying?

 

Now, what is your point?

 

I dont think its a silly question and you look like your trying to avoid answering it.

 

I think if we get to the end of the tunnel and there is a nice bright light there showing us the path to good times then all of us would have taken one for the team to get there. But if we go through insolvency and disband completly leaving SMS to be turned into a Rugby pitch and no football team to support then how many would be happy that we went this route?

[kpturner]

And I still haven't had an apology.

For what? :confused:

[saintjay77]

I STILL dont think it will come to that.

 

I still think that there is a very slim chance that it will come to that and there is still a high chance that we will see new owners but there is still a possability we could go down the drain. I cant see how anyone can be happy about that

[alpine_saint]

I still think that there is a very slim chance that it will come to that and there is still a high chance that we will see new owners but there is still a possability we could go down the drain. I cant see how anyone can be happy about that

 

Who has said they are happy about it ?

 

We are where we are.

[slickmick]

For what? :confused:

 

First post was Pinnacle have failed to deliver, then..

 

Said something along the lines that Lynam is hopeful that things can still be sorted.

 

Not contradicting, or as you put it, asking me to be less alarmist.

[kpturner]

I stopped trawling through everything when the arguments and slanging matches kicked in, so apologies if this has already been posted, but the BBC Sports article now has the full recorded interview with Lynam for you to listen to, which is a bit more revealing than the snippet on the original Solent News bulletin: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8055407.stm

[OldNick]

What a pathetic exercise in self-congratulation and c*ck-swinging.

 

There is not a single person on here...NO-ONE...that is getting a kick out of or wallowing in delight at todays news.

 

Just because you dont understand their perspective gives you no right to make such childish accusations.

Ahhhh, diddums.

 

Starts pointing fingers then cannot hack it when others fight back...

 

What ARE you going to do with your Saturday afternoons from now on ? [end quote]

 

That is the type of thing that I was getting at.A sneer and jibe at fans who really are hurting whose life will be turned upside down. it wont effect you the same however much you protest it will

[sun of spain]

Nonsense, avoiding administration could have been achieved if the whole of the fanbase could have forgotten their predudice and attended. That would have meant accepting poor football and perhaps bad results, it would also have meant the galling dssight of Lowe but in time the gate receipts would have helped build us .This is not a defrence of |Lowe or attack on fans.It is a statement as i see it.

The product is not an excuse of not turning up IMO

 

 

I understand what you are saying Nick,but you also have to see the other side of the coin.

 

Would you continue to give your hard earned money to a business,where they treat you with contempt and charge you premium prices for rubbish week in week out ? If your local Tesco's did that you would complain loudly and then vote with your feet,vowing not to return until things were put right.That's all that has happened with some fans this season,and their action can't be classed as the reason for our club's demise.

 

Any reasonable person would see that our problems have stemmed from poor management and decision making over recent years,and not the fact that some fans have stayed away.

 

By the way,in business the product is vitally important.If you build poor quality cars customers won't buy them,and if you run a retail outlet for example and alienate your customers they don't come back.That's the stark fact of running any business,it's just a pity that those people running (and ruining)the club couldn't see it !!

[um pahars]

Nonsense, avoiding administration could have been achieved if the whole of the fanbase could have forgotten their predudice and attended. That would have meant accepting poor football and perhaps bad results, it would also have meant the galling dssight of Lowe but in time the gate receipts would have helped build us .This is not a defrence of |Lowe or attack on fans.It is a statement as i see it.

The product is not an excuse of not turning up IMO

 

I'm sorry nickh, but I have to say I think you spectacularly miss the point.

 

Up to a certain point you will have the die hard supporters who will come what may. Maybe 7,000 to 12,000 (or somewhere either side of that). After that you have to provide them with a reason for coming.

 

Bar the odd exception, every club will see a fluctuation in attendances due to the division they are playing in, the opposition they are playing, empathy with "their" club and probably most importantly perceived success.

 

To suggest that supporters just needed to come back for everything to be alright is extremely naive and just doesn't resonate with what happens in the real world.

[Frank's cousin]

Gentleman, is this helping? Lets step back for a moment - there were some advocating admin as a way to deliver us from evil and hopefully see a new dawn - and as a sentiment who could disagree? Its only because perhaps in these cases the consequences were not fully appreciated, or as many of us would have to admit it was not considered that we would not find a buyer - I have mellowed on this because its no different from me not seeing teh consequences of the dutch failure at season start being generally positive and up beat about the potential style we saw in pres season and the first few games... Surely we should just all agree that we are in teh mire and need help...soon!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I understand what you are saying Nick,but you also have to see the other side of the coin.

 

Would you continue to give your hard earned money to a business,where they treat you with contempt and charge you premium prices for rubbish week in week out ? If your local Tesco's did that you would complain loudly and then vote with your feet,vowing not to return until things were put right.That's all that has happened with some fans this season,and their action can't be classed as the reason for our club's demise.

 

Any reasonable person would see that our problems have stemmed from poor management and decision making over recent years,and not the fact that some fans have stayed away.

 

By the way,in business the product is vitally important.If you build poor quality cars customers won't buy them,and if you run a retail outlet for example and alienate your customers they don't come back.That's the stark fact of running any business,it's just a pity that those people running (and ruining)the club couldn't see it !!

 

They didn't need to see it because they foolishly believed the fans were a captive audience and even more foolish than they themselves!

[The9]

Gentleman' date=' is this helping? Lets step back for a moment - there were some advocating admin as a way to deliver us from evil and hopefully see a new dawn - and as a sentiment who could disagree? Its only because perhaps in these cases the consequences were not fully appreciated, or as many of us would have to admit it was not considered that we would not find a buyer - I have mellowed on this because its no different from me not seeing teh consequences of the dutch failure at season start being generally positive and up beat about the potential style we saw in pres season and the first few games... [b']Surely we should just all agree that we are in teh mire and need help...soon![/b]

 

I don't think there's much debate about that, the problem is people who claim otherwise coming across as wanting to say "I told you so" more than they seem to want the club to survive, some of them from positions where it will make literally no difference to them either way.

 

As someone who went all season long, as a Saints fan and a football fan, irrespective of the politics, I wouldn't be best pleased in being blamed for our failure to exist as a Club in 2009/10 using the tenuous argument that "boycotting" and forcing the incumbent PLC Chairman out would improve things, when so far the methods used seem to be having the opposite, calamitous effect.

[OldNick]

I'm sorry nickh, but I have to say I think you spectacularly miss the point.

 

Up to a certain point you will have the die hard supporters who will come what may. Maybe 7,000 to 12,000 (or somewhere either side of that). After that you have to provide them with a reason for coming.

 

Bar the odd exception, every club will see a fluctuation in attendances due to the division they are playing in, the opposition they are playing, empathy with "their" club and probably most importantly perceived success.

 

To suggest that supporters just needed to come back for everything to be alright is extremely naive and just doesn't resonate with what happens in the real world.

Um of course you are right and Im feeling quite passionate today, even though I still am in denial that we will fold.

Iam and have always been one of the poor fools who will accept dire stuff as I have SFC so deeplyingrained.

Yes the fans do deserve a better quality of football .I dont put myself up as a great fan, I rarely go to away games, but I will defend the club against people who try and bring it down.

The fans have not deserved any of the past so called leaders and the only good thing if we come out of administration will be they will all be gone.If we go throough this pain and any are still in the directors box i dont know what i will do

[70's Mike]

Nonsense, avoiding administration could have been achieved if the whole of the fanbase could have forgotten their predudice and attended. That would have meant accepting poor football and perhaps bad results, it would also have meant the galling dssight of Lowe but in time the gate receipts would have helped build us .This is not a defrence of |Lowe or attack on fans.It is a statement as i see it.

The product is not an excuse of not turning up IMO

 

Nick, i am struggling to believe the last sentence. The reality is that no club in the land maintains its gates if it continues to produce dross, especially as out dross was a board decision.

[OldNick]

I understand what you are saying Nick,but you also have to see the other side of the coin.

 

Would you continue to give your hard earned money to a business,where they treat you with contempt and charge you premium prices for rubbish week in week out ? If your local Tesco's did that you would complain loudly and then vote with your feet,vowing not to return until things were put right.That's all that has happened with some fans this season,and their action can't be classed as the reason for our club's demise.

 

Any reasonable person would see that our problems have stemmed from poor management and decision making over recent years,and not the fact that some fans have stayed away.

 

By the way,in business the product is vitally important.If you build poor quality cars customers won't buy them,and if you run a retail outlet for example and alienate your customers they don't come back.That's the stark fact of running any business,it's just a pity that those people running (and ruining)the club couldn't see it !!

Its noot a normal business, it relies on stupidity from people like me who attatch themselves to it just because of the pride I have of my birthplace.It is ridiculous I do realise that

[OldNick]

Nick' date=' i am struggling to believe the last sentence. The reality is that no club in the land maintains its gates if it continues to produce dross, especially as out dross was a board decision.[/quote']You are right Mike, the quality of football is of course important but in the main it was results as much as the football that was the most disappointing

[broncoboy]

Its noot a normal business, it relies on stupidity from people like me who attatch themselves to it just because of the pride I have of my birthplace.It is ridiculous I do realise that

 

No it is not a normal business but since Sky came along it is nearly no longer possible for clubs to be funded by the supporterers alone.

 

The league by whacking on ten points here and there also damage any club trying to find funding.

 

If Saints go under it will be for lots of reasons but the most important one wont be a few hundred people staying away because they didnt like Rupert Lowe

[Gemmel]

Im feeling quite passionate today, even though I still am in denial that we will fold.

 

I think that's how we all feel - I'm going to have to take it out on the lager fridge. :partyman:

[John B]

Nick' date=' i am struggling to believe the last sentence. The reality is that no club in the land maintains its gates if it continues to produce dross, especially as out dross was a board decision.[/quote']

 

In normal circumstances I would totally agree but the board were trying to address a serious problem with finances which has led us to administration.

[John B]

No it is not a normal business but since Sky came along it is nearly no longer possible for clubs to be funded by the supporterers alone.

 

The league by whacking on ten points here and there also damage any club trying to find funding.

 

If Saints go under it will be for lots of reasons but the most important one wont be a few hundred people staying away because they didnt like Rupert Lowe

 

You are right but people staying away contributed to our problems.

[70's Mike]

You are right Mike, the quality of football is of course important but in the main it was results as much as the football that was the most disappointing

 

Basically what i meant to say, i personally would have loved us to gain a reputation of "one nil to the southampton",

We both grew up watching young players being given a chance, Paine, Chivers, Channon, Williams, Moran, Shreare, Wallaces and Le Tiss, and would have loved the experiment to have worked but i believe, no one really believed it would other than Lowe and Co.

We will pay the price for a kids play ground feud between about 10 grown men and women.

[OldNick]

No it is not a normal business but since Sky came along it is nearly no longer possible for clubs to be funded by the supporterers alone.

 

The league by whacking on ten points here and there also damage any club trying to find funding.

 

If Saints go under it will be for lots of reasons but the most important one wont be a few hundred people staying away because they didnt like Rupert Lowe

No I always thought it was down to success why people stayed away.I think the unrest also helped as the constant negativity made fans feel disallusioned.When was the last time fans really felt we were on the up? Only a few times in the last couple of decades, each and every time we were kicked in the teeth.Whether it be Alan Ball deserting us for Man c Hoddle to spurs WGS etc.Add to that the club selling our heroes and then not investing in quality.

We have had a long run that has buffetted the fanbsae and now we have the precipice ahead

[alpine_saint]

Gentleman' date=' is this helping? Lets step back for a moment - there were some advocating admin as a way to deliver us from evil and hopefully see a new dawn - and as a sentiment who could disagree? Its only because perhaps in these cases the consequences were not fully appreciated, or as many of us would have to admit it was not considered that we would not find a buyer - I have mellowed on this because its no different from me not seeing teh consequences of the dutch failure at season start being generally positive and up beat about the potential style we saw in pres season and the first few games... Surely we should just all agree that we are in teh mire and need help...soon![/quote']

 

Well b*gger me. Real balance (for once) and a dose of humility to top it off.

[OldNick]

Basically what i meant to say, i personally would have loved us to gain a reputation of "one nil to the southampton",

We both grew up watching young players being given a chance, Paine, Chivers, Channon, Williams, Moran, Shreare, Wallaces and Le Tiss, and would have loved the experiment to have worked but i believe, no one really believed it would other than Lowe and Co.

We will pay the price for a kids play ground feud between about 10 grown men and women.

That is a good way of putting it Mike, a play ground fued

[alpine_saint]

Ahhhh, diddums.

 

Starts pointing fingers then cannot hack it when others fight back...

 

What ARE you going to do with your Saturday afternoons from now on ? [end quote]

 

That is the type of thing that I was getting at.A sneer and jibe at fans who really are hurting whose life will be turned upside down. it wont effect you the same however much you protest it will

 

The problem is entirely yours. You arrogantly put fans into classes, and cant see past that.

As for the quote above, people in glass houses shouldnt throw breeze-blocks..

[70's Mike]

In normal circumstances I would totally agree but the board were trying to address a serious problem with finances which has led us to administration.

 

John the argument has been done to death but i will never believe there was not another way, Rupert and Wilde concentrated on one side of the equation cutting costs, like the poor businessman they are, they never considered or appeared to consider the effect on income , they appear to have believed we were all fools and that people would turn up whatever the product

[hypochondriac]

Fact of the matter is Alps you were begging for admin but i hasn't solved anything. I think most posters can see that you were wrong to ask for it. Just admit that and lets move on.

[miserableoldgit]

Fact of the matter is Alps you were begging for admin but i hasn't solved anything. I think most posters can see that you were wrong to ask for it. Just admit that and lets move on.

I can`t be asked to go through all of the threads but I seem to remember a handful of posters (not just Alpine) who wanted admin as a way to get rid of Lowe/Wilde and though that it would be the answer to our problems. Naive or what?

[Whitey Grandad]

I think that some people saw administration as the only way of getting rid of Lowe, which is why they were calling for it. We can all agree thet we are seriously up the creek and try as I may it's looking more and more difficult to see a way to get back to where we all feel we belong.

[alpine_saint]

I can`t be asked to go through all of the threads but I seem to remember a handful of posters (not just Alpine) who wanted admin as a way to get rid of Lowe/Wilde and though that it would be the answer to our problems. Naive or what?

 

Not at all. It just came far, far, FAR too late.

[alpine_saint]

Fact of the matter is Alps you were begging for admin but i hasn't solved anything. I think most posters can see that you were wrong to ask for it. Just admit that and lets move on.

 

Noooooope.

[OldNick]

The problem is entirely yours. You arrogantly put fans into classes, and cant see past that.

As for the quote above, people in glass houses shouldnt throw breeze-blocks..

There are different classes of fans, the ones who can be bothered to go and the armchair ones.I am in the middle as I cant be arsed to put myself out to go to away games, you cant go to either due to geography.I feel for the fans at this time whose life is wrapped up in home and away and go all over the country to support us.

[OldNick]

Not at all. It just came far, far, FAR too late.

I dont think that is how you were putting it

[ALWAYS_SFC]

With all these pages of speculation,ITK posts and despair now would

be a good time for the administrators to actually put out details

of the exact position the club is in.

 

A interview with Mr Fry on the southern news channels,sky sports, radio hants,solent etc,would be most welcome.

 

If we are dead let`s hear it confrimed if not, let`s hear that instead...

 

We all deserve to know...

Edited 18 May, 2009 by ALWAYS_SFC

[hypochondriac]

Noooooope.

 

Sigh.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Not at all. It just came far, far, FAR too late.

 

Indeed it did and we all know who made the late decision don`t we...

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Fact of the matter is Alps you were begging for admin but i hasn't solved anything. I think most posters can see that you were wrong to ask for it. Just admit that and lets move on.

 

If we end up getting bought then I will get down off my high horse and admit that the Pro-admin people were right, otherwise they are so wrong it's unbelievable and we'll be left without a club Lowe or not. I just hope all those that haven't gone because of Lowe are happy without having a club.

[Burger]

I'm going to continue in blind optimism and hope that things will turn out OK (and that Admin had some benefits) until proved wrong......but if it all goes bad this not only affects the supporters, but the town.

 

Will Southampton be the same city without the Saints? and what other business' will suffer......pubs for a start will have 15,000 less people speniding money on beer and food

[saintalan]

Not even a mention on the 5pm Solent or Radio 'where saints always come first' Hampshire News

[alpine_saint]

If we end up getting bought then I will get down off my high horse and admit that the Pro-admin people were right, otherwise they are so wrong it's unbelievable and we'll be left without a club Lowe or not. I just hope all those that haven't gone because of Lowe are happy without having a club.

 

If I am wrong, I still contend that the club folding was just round the corner anyway.

 

We were on a downwards sprial that was going to hit rock-bottom sooner or later.

 

If you want to desrcibe wanting administration as "wrong" at this premature stage, the "wrongest" it was is that it caused the end of the club a little earlier than might otherwise have happened.

[TNT]

Not even a mention on the 5pm Solent or Radio 'where saints always come first' Hampshire News

 

Yeah heard RS and thought, very odd no mention.

[SW11_Saint]

If we end up getting bought then I will get down off my high horse and admit that the Pro-admin people were right, otherwise they are so wrong it's unbelievable and we'll be left without a club Lowe or not. I just hope all those that haven't gone because of Lowe are happy without having a club.

I don't know where all this "pro admin"/"anti admin" stuff comes from - whether you thought it was a good thing or bad thing is irrelevant; IT HAPPENED. It also happened on Rupert Lowe's watch, so he has to take a large percentage of the blame for it. Rather than getting uppity about those who thought it might be a "good idea", perhaps save your ire for the guy who architected this most catastrophic of seasons - our management team, our results, our gates, and therefore our income...

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

If I am wrong, I still contend that the club folding was just round the corner anyway.

 

We were on a downwards sprial that was going to hit rock-bottom sooner or later.

 

If you want to desrcibe wanting administration as "wrong" at this premature stage, the "wrongest" it was is that it caused the end of the club a little earlier than might otherwise have happened.

 

But we were foreclosed on due to Barclays calling in their debt, which may well have been different had the Overdraft have been £3m (almost definitely actually), and the club had made a £2m profit in the 9 months to April. That doesn't sound certain to me.

[Shroppie]

It's all gone very quiet, and perhaps that's not bad news.

 

If the deadline was "end of play" today, which I suppose could be any time but we must be close to it, and there's no formal announcement it means something's still going on.

 

I would like to guess it's a battle between a stadium-only bid and Pinnacle with the former offering a better immediate return but without the potential of a continuing football club. Fry has to take the best deal he can get, but which of these could he persuade creditors to accept? Or is he pushing Pinnacle because there really is another "mystery" possiblity?

 

Having said that, I'll probably look very stupid in 30 mins when he announces that all bidders have failed/withdrawn.

 

But for now my cup's still half full.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I don't know where all this "pro admin"/"anti admin" stuff comes from - whether you thought it was a good thing or bad thing is irrelevant; IT HAPPENED. It also happened on Rupert Lowe's watch, so he has to take a large percentage of the blame for it. Rather than getting uppity about those who thought it might be a "good idea", perhaps save your ire for the guy who architected this most catastrophic of seasons - our management team, our results, our gates, and therefore our income...

 

But that's it, I believe had those who decided not to go had come back to support the club in it's hour of need we would not have gone into admin.

[alpine_saint]

But we were foreclosed on due to Barclays calling in their debt, which may well have been different had the Overdraft have been £3m (almost definitely actually), and the club had made a £2m profit in the 9 months to April. That doesn't sound certain to me.

 

You really are clutching at straws now.

 

Barclays could have called in their debt or cut their overdraft at any time when they decided we were too big a risk.

 

If it was so far from certain as you claim, why did they cut the overdraft ?

[SW11_Saint]

I'm going to continue in blind optimism and hope that things will turn out OK (and that Admin had some benefits) until proved wrong......but if it all goes bad this not only affects the supporters, but the town.

 

Will Southampton be the same city without the Saints? and what other business' will suffer......pubs for a start will have 15,000 less people speniding money on beer and food

Absolutely agree. It will have a massive knock on effect on the City. Saints is part of our history and our heritage - to see it go under would be catastrophic.

 

To add to my bad (and increasingly bitter) mood today, have just been reading yesterdays Observer about the World Cup Bid (to be unveiled tomorrow), Portsmouth being a major part of it - after increasing the capacity of FP to 30,000 if the bid is successful they will build a "40 or 45,000 capacity stadium at Port Solent". Say what we want about them, the club has done well, and their City has benefitted - they also seem to have done a decent job as a city council attracting industry as well as major events (e.g. the round the world yacht race) as well as building tourist attractions - the Spinnaker Tower, developing Port Solent etc. Southampton as a City always seems to be talking about things, rather than doing them. Oh, of course we now have Ikea - whoopi doo!

[Wade Garrett]

Take your arguments about who is to blame etc. and f*ck off the lot of you.

 

Boring c*nts.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You really are clutching at straws now.

 

Barclays could have called in their debt or cut their overdraft at any time when they decided we were too big a risk.

 

If it was so far from certain as you claim, why did they cut the overdraft ?

 

I don't know, which is something that a lot of people don't understand. Why did they call in a debt that had been reduced by 33% in 9 months, and why renege on their original agreement? I don't understand how a company making a profit that is decent enough to not be a going concern can be cut off like that.

 

And that is certainly not clutching at straws.

[SW11_Saint]

But that's it, I believe had those who decided not to go had come back to support the club in it's hour of need we would not have gone into admin.

And I suspect if we'd have kept Nigel Pearson we'd have had 3-5,000 more on our gates... vicious circle, and an old argument, but people won't shell out hard earned money for zero entertainment and a losing team... ultimately that was our failure this year. A massive gamble by Lowe which blew up in his face (and ours!), hence we are where we are...