Still talking over Saints

[dubai_phil]

Why are they waiting in the wings, are they not allowed to bid ?

 

Well, if I was cynical.

 

When there was one real bidder, there was another mystery bidder

When there are two real bidders, there is another third mystery bidder

 

negotiation tactics for dummies chapter 1 I believe

 

But then in reality maybe there is somebody else out there who has a hell of a lot of work to do - draw up their own business plan, contact the critical people they would need involved, oh and of course, if foreign, overcome a small obstacle about a legal money trail to move funds from overseas into the UK and comply with anti-money laundering rules. Or, possibly even to convert a large stockpile of assets into actual CASH that can be paid to buy the club. Rich people tend not to have 8mil sitting in their current account

 

That last bit is a big issue and one of the historical reasons that Liverpool were not bought at the time by Dubai Inc

[Block 5]

Well, if I was cynical.

 

When there was one real bidder, there was another mystery bidder

When there are two real bidders, there is another third mystery bidder

 

negotiation tactics for dummies chapter 1 I believe

 

But then in reality maybe there is somebody else out there who has a hell of a lot of work to do - draw up their own business plan, contact the critical people they would need involved, oh and of course, if foreign, overcome a small obstacle about a legal money trail to move funds from overseas into the UK and comply with anti-money laundering rules. Or, possibly even to convert a large stockpile of assets into actual CASH that can be paid to buy the club. Rich people tend not to have 8mil sitting in their current account

 

That last bit is a big issue and one of the historical reasons that Liverpool were not bought at the time by Dubai Inc

 

We're being bought by Colombian coke dealers?

[SFC Forever]

The biggest reason has left the building.

Let's just pray for a satisfactory conclusion to this bartering. Anything more will be a bonus.

[TNT]

Weston is right..

 

On the flip side you would moan at anything..

 

Up The Saints !

 

 

Westons a mate of Green and Jackson, i can now see reading his posts.

[buctootim]

We're being bought by Colombian coke dealers?

If only we were able to aim that high.

[aintforever]

The Echo also said we wouldn't get a 10 point deduction - they know Jack ****.

[GenevaSaint]

Let's not criticise any of their efforts. They are all giving up masses of time to achieve a positive end. Can any of the critics on here say the same?

 

All giving masses of their time for how much though? If they're giving it for free to save Saints then hats off to them. I bet there's a 1 - 5% cut in there somewhere though.

[dubai_phil]

We're being bought by Colombian coke dealers?

 

well beats dodgy arms dealers in some areas I guess

[Foxstone]

All giving masses of their time for how much though? If they're giving it for free to save Saints then hats off to them. I bet there's a 1 - 5% cut in there somewhere though.

 

Does that really matter as long as we have a club to support, and any deal they facilitate moves us forward again ?

[OldNick]

Westons a mate of Green and Jackson, i can now see reading his posts.

I think Weston has made it clear all along that he knows them.After all they all were at the forum match and we went for an after match drink.

Whilst i understand some scepticisim what else have we got??

From what i can see from elsewhere we have a bid that MLT has said he'd back (I believe he has said the same about any other bid that saves the club) that has a front of a hastily designed webpage from a non saints supporting front man.I hope that is how it is ,because thas how I see it from the little info I have on Pinnacle.Some seem to have info about their funding and that obviously whets my lips that there might be somemajor money behind a bid.What sets my alarm bells ringing is quite why they needed to be so prominent and up with the publicity? There was no need for the webpage or any of the other pro leaks.We are just as excited by the thought of a mystery bidder as the ones we know of.

It doesnt add up and it is of course bleeding the club of funds.

It does show that with the club being cut to below half price it is still hard to find investment.Therefore i say to LC RL and MW you really did have a tough job trying to sell us at the full price.

[Gemmel]

Im taking Fry's silence as a positive. Obviously it isn't helping us fans, but i can't help but thinking if he didn't think that at least one of the current players would or could do the deal, he would be banging his drum, trying to get any last minute bidders involved.

However, some of the names involved have history and if we get to the stage where it's them or nothing and they fail to come up with the funds, were fooked.

Franks cousin made a good point yesterday that when Jackson tried to takeover Bournemouth, he was announced as the preferred bidder and would have had to by that point have already gone through "Proof of Funds", yet ultimately when it came down to the crunch, the money men suddenly disappeared.

[GenevaSaint]

Does that really matter as long as we have a club to support, and any deal they facilitate moves us forward again ?

 

No absolutely not, I agree, the overriding priority is the club. It's just I don't want to see them as Saints (please pardon the Pun) when there is a potentially large amount of money to be had at the end of the process for said individual. Lets just all agree they're not only doing this for the good of the club, there is self gain to be made here! If it's 5% of the quote 8m, £400,000 is alot of cash.

 

What I find odd with these potential buyers is if they're interested in buying Saints or any other club for that matter, why go through someone like Jackson. No slight on him intended, why go through any middle man/facilitator? Pinnacle I can understand to a degree as they have a personal/business relationship (if I read it correctly), but why an individual such as MJ? Sure this has already been answered on another thread but I can't keep track.

[buctootim]

Im taking Fry's silence as a positive. Obviously it isn't helping us fans, but i can't help but thinking if he didn't think that at least one of the current players would or could do the deal, he would be banging his drum, trying to get any last minute bidders involved.

However, some of the names involved have history and if we get to the stage where it's them or nothing and they fail to come up with the funds, were fooked.

Franks cousin made a good point yesterday that when Jackson tried to takeover Bournemouth, he was announced as the preferred bidder and would have had to by that point have already gone through "Proof of Funds", yet ultimately when it came down to the crunch, the money men suddenly disappeared.

 

Fry's silence is professional, but not good news IMO. If there was one strong bid acceptable to the creditors it would have been anounced as the preferred bidder by now. Sounds to me as though he has the job of working out if one of the rickety bids might be able to actually deliver sufficient funds equal to what a liquidation would raise.

Edited 14 May, 2009 by buctootim

[Ken Tone]

The Echo also said we wouldn't get a 10 point deduction - they know Jack ****.

 

But the real question is, is Jack**** the same as Jack*** ?

 

I've never met this bloke Mark Jackson, but he made a pillock of himself both on here a while back and when he 'bought' Bournemouth. If he is just a **** and he has no real money of his own , why would anyone with money now use him as an agent?

 

Either he is not as stupid as he seems to be, or the supposed 'money men' are also time-wasters.

 

Which is it?

 

K.

[dubai_phil]

Im taking Fry's silence as a positive. Obviously it isn't helping us fans, but i can't help but thinking if he didn't think that at least one of the current players would or could do the deal, he would be banging his drum, trying to get any last minute bidders involved.

However, some of the names involved have history and if we get to the stage where it's them or nothing and they fail to come up with the funds, were fooked.

Franks cousin made a good point yesterday that when Jackson tried to takeover Bournemouth, he was announced as the preferred bidder and would have had to by that point have already gone through "Proof of Funds", yet ultimately when it came down to the crunch, the money men suddenly disappeared.

 

 

Fair points Gemmel

 

Perhaps a response would be that there are two types of people in the world.

 

Those that learn from past mistakes and Rupert Lowe. (not that it will change anyone's opnions of MJ!)

 

Nobody knows who is doing what in each bid.

For example is it MJ & Tony Lynam doing all the negotiating when it isn't their money?

I would doubt that. I would expect that with something this size there are teams of people involved with specific skills all over the place and no doubt armies of lawyers and accountants have already been used, and no doubt there are some good cop bad cops in all the negotiations.

 

Somebody else mentioned this sort of thing takes a lot of work. Let us simply at this time be grateful for the fact that two groups out of the original 34 have stayed the course and possibly spent a lot of time and their own money to try and save the club.

 

Somehow I don't think that bullsh1t would have got this far, after all the plumbers from the Channel Islands didn't seem to last long.

 

Personally I think FF has a job to do when this is all over by talking to the parties to tell us the story of what was really involved from beginning to end, could become a best seller as a management text book....

 

If we get saved of course

[Rem]

But the real question is, is Jack**** the same as Jack*** ?

 

I've never met this bloke Mark Jackson, but he made a pillock of himself both on here a while back and when he 'bought' Bournemouth. If he is just a **** and he has no real money of his own , why would anyone with money now use him as an agent?

 

Either he is not as stupid as he seems to be, or the supposed 'money men' are also time-wasters.

 

Which is it?

 

K.

 

Perhaps Mark Jackson and his backers are smarter than they are given credit for. Maybe they pulled out of the Bournemouth deal when they realised that an opportunity to take over Saints might be on the horizon.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

Is there any possibility that the delay is because the different parties that are wanting to make bids are now actually talking to each other to create a bigger consortium with better backing, etc.?

[dubai_phil]

Is there any possibility that the delay is because the different parties that are wanting to make bids are now actually talking to each other to create a bigger consortium with better backing, etc.?

 

No

 

IMHO of course

 

regards

 

Morph

 

sort of

 

I think

[Weston Saint]

I think part of the answer of why MJ is involved may be that he uses his extensive contacts to go out and find the money men and bring them to the table just as Tony Lynam is doing. Without these 2 guys we might not even be at the the proven funds stage and we all know what that would mean.

[Window Cleaner]

Perhaps Mark Jackson and his backers are smarter than they are given credit for. Maybe they pulled out of the Bournemouth deal when they realised that an opportunity to take over Saints might be on the horizon.

 

 

 

I would honestly doubt that Mark Jackson is smarter than anyone would think. As for his backers, well who knows.

 

It's a great pity that some classic LLS posts can't be trawled back from the past. These would prove beyond reasonable doubt that MJ is as smart as he seems.

[trousers]

I think part of the answer of why MJ is involved may be that he uses his extensive contacts to go out and find the money men and bring them to the table

 

Isn't that part of Fry's job?

 

If I was a creditor I'd be wanting the Administrator to be using his wealth of contacts to bring the money to the table rather than him sitting behind his desk waiting for the middlemen to come up with the goods.

[Mole]

God help us if that blithering idiot Jackson gets anywhere near the club.

[Mole]

I think part of the answer of why MJ is involved .....

 

You've changed your tune. Is this ITK for definite?

[Barry the Badger]

I have made a few jokes at MJ's expense but at the end of the day if he is contributing to the process then fair play to him.

 

I will reserve judgement until this is all over, only then will we really know if he has been a help or a hinderance.

[Gemmel]

I have made a few jokes at MJ's expense but at the end of the day if he is contributing to the process then fair play to him.

 

Agreed.

 

If however he is still living in fantasy land and ends up hindering the process to a fatal conclusion, i hope he factored in a one way ticket to ***tsville in his calculations

[SP Saint]

God help us if that blithering idiot Jackson gets anywhere near the club.

 

I still think that any deal Wacko is involved in is likely to fall apart. Sure he has extensive contacts in his own mind plus all those he sold photocopiers to when he wasn't a photocopier salesman working for Xerox.

 

He acted like a complete fool when he posted on here and I for one don't believe any genuine group of money men would work with him. Just look what happened at Bournemouth.

[Mole]

I still think that any deal Wacko is involved in is likely to fall apart. Sure he has extensive contacts in his own mind plus all those he sold photocopiers to when he wasn't a photocopier salesman working for Xerox.

 

He acted like a complete fool when he posted on here and I for one don't believe any genuine group of money men would work with him. Just look what happened at Bournemouth.

 

His posting on the Bournemouth fans forum were just as cringeworthy. I think he's just a fantasist who's wasting SFC money with his stupid behaviour.

[Window Cleaner]

His posting on the Bournemouth fans forum were just as cringeworthy. I think he's just a fantasist who's wasting SFC money with his stupid behaviour.

 

 

But if his group's bid is being taken at all seriously then they must have proved funds.Think someone explained how he could even Walter Mitty that though,GM perhaps.

[Mole]

But if his group's bid is being taken at all seriously then they must have proved funds.Think someone explained how he could even Walter Mitty that though,GM perhaps.

 

God knows, all i do know is that Jacko is a fly by night chancer.

[Frank's cousin]

I think part of the answer of why MJ is involved may be that he uses his extensive contacts to go out and find the money men and bring them to the table just as Tony Lynam is doing. Without these 2 guys we might not even be at the the proven funds stage and we all know what that would mean.

 

Sorry Ron, this is what i dont get... Its been pretty much in teh national media that we are in admin and buyers are sought - anyone serious would either appoint their own broker or deal direct. MJ and even SG are not in a position to buy the club themselves so why get involved? Everyone they contact will know the club is for sale if they have any interest whatsoever in a) sainst b0 owning a football club

 

For me the ONLY reason we have MJ involved is because he is always keen to play a role - and his 'backers' are numerous because they dont ahvethe financial clout to do it on their own - so we potentially end up with a consortium of 6-8 - how long before they fall out as more money is required to prop us up?

[miserableoldgit]

His posting on the Bournemouth fans forum were just as cringeworthy. I think he's just a fantasist who's wasting SFC money with his stupid behaviour.

 

Shouldn`t Fry be the best judge of this? He is the professionional.

[OldNick]

Sorry Ron, this is what i dont get... Its been pretty much in teh national media that we are in admin and buyers are sought - anyone serious would either appoint their own broker or deal direct. MJ and even SG are not in a position to buy the club themselves so why get involved? Everyone they contact will know the club is for sale if they have any interest whatsoever in a) sainst b0 owning a football club

 

For me the ONLY reason we have MJ involved is because he is always keen to play a role - and his 'backers' are numerous because they dont ahvethe financial clout to do it on their own - so we potentially end up with a consortium of 6-8 - how long before they fall out as more money is required to prop us up?

Well the scary thing is with all the publicity we need middle men to find a buyer!!! Is that not more worrying, if these are phantom bids what next???

[Window Cleaner]

Shouldn`t Fry be the best judge of this? He is the professionional.

 

 

Indeed he is, taking too long though. Our skirmish with administration is a f*ck up from the beginning.We shouldn't even be there, now that we are we have LLS(and god knows who else) chancing his arm again.We should have taken whatever Swansea offered for that wimp Dyer (even if it was only £3.50p) and made Saganowski stay wherever he was or **** off elsewhere. Then we wouldn't be in admin for a couple of quid. We might still have been relegated but we wouldn't be -10 points.

Edited 14 May, 2009 by Window Cleaner

[Smirking_Saint]

Guys we are still in a recession in which a lot of the big hitters (serious money men) have been hit hard and are probably not inclined to be looking at a football club at the moment.

 

Especially a risk at the level of investment it could take us to get to the promised land.

 

This is why i think we are looking at consortiums of differing amounts of people and TBH i think we should all just stop the slagging and moaning about those names that are flying about which are obviously TRYING to save the club.

 

As far as MJ, ok, i never heard of him before the bournemouth thing and before i joined the forum but i now know what a debacle that was, that being said and Fry being in an administration company he must have heard stories ETC and been briefed (if MJ IS involved) on what happened so he can't be blind to it, and must be checking things out.

 

As for the others, all i care about is having a club to support, christ i would even take Lowe back if it was the only way. I can't see how people bemoaning these guys helping are true fans, if you can't accept the club being saved by anyone right now, you obviously don't care enough.

[buctootim]

Indeed he is, taking too long though. Our skirmish with administration is a f*ck up front the beginning.We shouldn't even be there, now that we are we have LLS(and god knows who else) chancing his arm again.We should have taken whatever Swansea offered for that wimp Dyer (even if it was only £3.50p) and made Saganowski stay wherever he was or **** off elsewhere. Then we wouldn't be in admin for a couple of quid. We might still have been relegated but we wouldn't be -10 points.

 

Sad but true. What a **** up to get relegated AND minus 10 points for next season.

[RinNY]

Know what I find interesting? Amidst all this talk of Jackson & Green & Lynam & MLT & mystery foreign bidders, there are some notable and highly touted supposed "wealthy Saints fans" missing. No Salz, no Frost, no Gavyn Davies. As I have long suspected, even while people were going on and on about how these guys would step in and put Saints back on the map if only Lowe were no longer around, the plain truth seems to be that they are not interested in Saints beyond having a chance to watch the odd game from the Directors' box, probably for free! Very revealing of who the true fans are. Gotta give even the likes of Jackson some kudos on that score.

[Toadhall Saint]

They could be involved as a member of a consortium - so NDA'ed.

Edited 14 May, 2009 by Toadhall Saint
Typo

[RinNY]

They could be involved as a member of a consortium - so NDA'ed.

 

Hence my use of "seems"; but this NDA business doesn't seem to have stopped a variety of names becoming public. I remain skeptical about these purported fans.

[miserableoldgit]

Indeed he is, taking too long though. Our skirmish with administration is a f*ck up front the beginning.We shouldn't even be there, now that we are we have LLS(and god knows who else) chancing his arm again.We should have taken whatever Swansea offered for that wimp Dyer (even if it was only £3.50p) and made Saganowski stay wherever he was or **** off elsewhere. Then we wouldn't be in admin for a couple of quid. We might still have been relegated but we wouldn't be -10 points.

Taking too long for who though? Us lot on here, because we are desperate for some positive news? The only person that KNOWS what is going on is FRY, not people on an internet forum (inc the "ITK`s"). I am as frustrated as everyone else, but we will just have to wait and put our trust in Fry to do the right thing.

[Window Cleaner]

Hence my use of "seems"; but this NDA business doesn't seem to have stopped a variety of names becoming public. I remain skeptical about these purported fans.

 

Do you honestly think that reputable people like Salz and Davies would use the kind of front men we've been hearing about? I don't.

[kpturner]

Ever heard the saying "No news is good news"?

 

If everything had collapsed then we would know about it. The fact that it is all quiet is both very frustrating and somewhat reassuring IMHO (apart from a nagging fear about the end of month wage bill).

[buctootim]

Know what I find interesting? Amidst all this talk of Jackson & Green & Lynam & MLT & mystery foreign bidders, there are some notable and highly touted supposed "wealthy Saints fans" missing. No Salz, no Frost, no Gavyn Davies. As I have long suspected, even while people were going on and on about how these guys would step in and put Saints back on the map if only Lowe were no longer around, the plain truth seems to be that they are not interested in Saints beyond having a chance to watch the odd game from the Directors' box, probably for free! Very revealing of who the true fans are. Gotta give even the likes of Jackson some kudos on that score.

 

But if Jackson was only doing it for the loveof the club, then fair play. In reality, as the Bournemouth mess showed, he appears to be only interested in running a football club or earning a finders fee. In my experience finders fee based deals only work out if the principal appoints an agent to find him a good business opportunity or an agent finds a good business opportunity not generally known by others. Touting around a club in well publicised trouble to all and sundry doesnt have the hallmarks of going well unfortunately.

[Window Cleaner]

Taking too long for who though? Us lot on here, because we are desperate for some positive news? The only person that KNOWS what is going on is FRY, not people on an internet forum (inc the "ITK`s"). I am as frustrated as everyone else, but we will just have to wait and put our trust in Fry to do the right thing.

 

He is taking too long because we should already be preparing next season in a positive manner and not be still unsure of anything at all.He is taking too long because we just won't have the money to pay the staff very soon now, a week today probably.It was he himself who started saying "there's not much time, Saints have lifesuport for just a few weeks". If he thinks it's Ok as it is then let him formally rescind that statement. He started in a blaze of publicity on the OS with frequent updates, TV interviews and what have you, now there's f*ck all.That's how I can say it's taking too long.

[derry]

What I fear most, is that with the next pay day on 21st May, unless someone buys out the club it will be wound up.

 

The sad fact if that happens, is that all these so called money men's egos have only succeeded in driving the final nail into the club's coffin, by using up the time available that could otherwise have been used to mount a proper rescue. There is no longer the money or time to do that.

[conaero]

Why are they waiting in the wings, are they not allowed to bid ?

 

Its like ebay snipping, you don't bid till the last second in fear of pushing up the price, its the same in business.

[dubai_phil]

What I fear most, is that with the next pay day on 21st May, unless someone buys out the club it will be wound up.

 

The sad fact if that happens, is that all these so called money men's egos have only succeeded in driving the final nail into the club's coffin, by using up the time available that could otherwise have been used to mount a proper rescue. There is no longer the money or time to do that.

 

This is the biggest worry and i think many have voiced it over recent days.

 

But think of all the rest - nobody could have made any formal agreements with people who could be critical employees.

For example, how could Pinnacle have made an offer to Shearer (for eg) when they don't know if they have the club - bringing those people in will take some time if they have that in their plans.

The independent lawyers/accountants still have to go through the books - it took Fry's team about a week to produce their sales packs and longer to get their due dilligence data together from what I read.

So contractual issues, employment decisions, still a lot of work to be done before the new board can be up and running, every week without decisions on next season's squad means players could be lost HCDAJFU.

 

But it's alright, Fry has to get the best deal for the creditors FIRST

 

That's why we don't like admin.... no control

[kpturner]

What I fear most, is that with the next pay day on 21st May, unless someone buys out the club it will be wound up.

 

The sad fact if that happens, is that all these so called money men's egos have only succeeded in driving the final nail into the club's coffin, by using up the time available that could otherwise have been used to mount a proper rescue. There is no longer the money or time to do that.

The Echo reckon that the Green (Jackson?) bid is on the table and that £500k has been lodged in some account to pay the bills. Could be complete trollox of course. I am not sure how that money can be touched if they do not also become the preferred bidder before that time.

[broncoboy]

A Day to Remember

 

Stay calm everybody this club is unsinkable and a consortium is coming to our rescue. We don't seem to have a lifeboat but we are confident.....................

[dubai_phil]

:cool:

A Day to Remember

 

Stay calm everybody this club is unsinkable and a consortium is coming to our rescue. We don't seem to have a lifeboat but we are confident.....................

 

Why did that post make me think of the Titanic

[ghq]

Sorry Ron, this is what i dont get... Its been pretty much in teh national media that we are in admin and buyers are sought - anyone serious would either appoint their own broker or deal direct. MJ and even SG are not in a position to buy the club themselves so why get involved? Everyone they contact will know the club is for sale if they have any interest whatsoever in a) sainst b0 owning a football club

 

For me the ONLY reason we have MJ involved is because he is always keen to play a role - and his 'backers' are numerous because they dont ahvethe financial clout to do it on their own - so we potentially end up with a consortium of 6-8 - how long before they fall out as more money is required to prop us up?

 

Unfortunately, from what we have seen and heard of MJ in the not too distant past, I'd think FC's summing up might well be only too correct.