Legod Third Coming Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Newcastle are about to drop into the Championship with half a billion behind them. Sunderland could easily do likewise with their moneybags consortium. Nowrich have been relegated despite Delia's cash. But Bolton are safe as houses, as are Doncaster - for now. Which tells me, it doesn't matter how much you've got in the bank, if you've got coco the clown on the bench. The first job for our new owners is to find the right manager - and let him invest (or not) in the playing squad. Priority number one, day one.
JustMike Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 i agree, although money would help too :-) Boothroyd for me please
Amesbury Saint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Agreed but we will need a liitle bit of money once our stars! have left
Legod Third Coming Posted 4 May, 2009 Author Posted 4 May, 2009 i agree, although money would help too :-) Boothroyd for me please Yes, but first spend it on the manager!!!!
Dalek2003 Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Couldn't agree more, so why in 2004 did we appoint Paul Sturrock, on the cheap and with no Premier experience ?
JustMike Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Couldn't agree more, so why in 2004 did we appoint Paul Sturrock, on the cheap and with no Premier experience ? 2 words for you...Rupert Lowe
Legod Third Coming Posted 4 May, 2009 Author Posted 4 May, 2009 2 words for you...Rupert Lowe Without getting into another pointless debate about the ruddy one, this is where he and I disagreed 100%. I believe in: Ferguson Wenger Clough Mourinho Cappello Redknapp and so on I believe these are the people who run their clubs/teams and that the Chairman is there to FACILITATE them.
Toussaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 i agree, although money would help too :-) Boothroyd for me please Boothroyd is a good shout for the short term, but one of our major problems has been the ridiculous number of managers and instability we have had. His ugly but effective football could do well to a point, but Saints fans wouldn't want it long term, would we? A better bet would be to either have someone who could grow with us or someone who is proven at every level. I would like the next guy to be here for 5 years.
Legod Third Coming Posted 4 May, 2009 Author Posted 4 May, 2009 Boothroyd is a good shout for the short term, but one of our major problems has been the ridiculous number of managers and instability we have had. His ugly but effective football could do well to a point, but Saints fans wouldn't want it long term, would we? A better bet would be to either have someone who could grow with us or someone who is proven at every level. I would like the next guy to be here for 5 years. I think that does him a disservice. They scored some good goals (and against us!!) using the pace of King and Young. They went, he was given no money to replace them, so used what he was left with. Sometimes managers get a rep for using what little they have the only way they can.
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Couldn't agree more, so why in 2004 did we appoint Paul Sturrock, on the cheap and with no Premier experience ? I would really want Sturrock today though in Div 1. But picking a successful manager is very difficult I feel some of those who are successful this season will not be next and then sacked You mention Sturrock had no Premier experience but Pearson had little experience full stop but is thought to be a good manager. Sam Allardyce had a lot of Premier experience but was sacked through poor results at Newcastle. Getting the right mix and standard of players is the key I feel
Give it to Ron Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Which is why it amazes me when people slate managers like Warnock, Davies and Sturrock in this league who all have kept their sides up.....we appoint 2 Dutch jokers with no experience of this league at all. Palace also have had young kids in their squad as well! Its false economy to appoint from within and inexperienced.
Joesaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Agree, like Ince myself or somone with the same style. Need manager before anyone as well so that he has enough time to build team before season.
Legod Third Coming Posted 4 May, 2009 Author Posted 4 May, 2009 Agree, like Ince myself or somone with the same style. Need manager before anyone as well so that he has enough time to build team before season. Agreed - that's why I said priority one day one. In fact, I would be disappointed if the consortiums are not sounding out managers NOW.
pilsburydoughboy Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 We are in League one as thus we will have to appoint a manager who will suit. Whoever is appointed will grow with his team and become a stronger unit for rising up through the leagues together. The squad will change but the management should be consistant. We need a spine to our team from the manager to the captain. Kelvin was captain for long spells of this season which he thoroughly deserved but when direction is needed on the pitch for example who to take a penalty or free kick nobody was there to take the lead. We need a strong leader on the touch line and a strong leader on the pitch and they both need to be pulling in the same direction. I dont think any of our team belived in Poor fleet or What Who this season and it showed on the pitch. Strength, Fitness and belief has been lacking from the Saints team for a long time. The shackles of Lowe and his cronies have now been lifted so whoever comes in and buys us will be in a position to have carte blanche to create a winning squad.
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Which is why it amazes me when people slate managers like Warnock, Davies and Sturrock in this league who all have kept their sides up.....we appoint 2 Dutch jokers with no experience of this league at all. Palace also have had young kids in their squad as well! Its false economy to appoint from within and inexperienced. If you have no money you appoint rubbish I agree But Ted Bates was appointed from within , Lawrie Mac had no Div 1 experience like Sturrock and I cannot really remember Chris Nichol's experience. As I have said before it is very difficult to appoint the right manager and luck plays a part in getting someone in if Strachan had not failed at Coventry I wonder what would have happened to us
Chez Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 (edited) in my opinion its all about the quality of player and that is dictated by the quality of the scouting and the amount of money you can spend. Our scouts have unearthed **** like Wotton, Smith, Gasmi, Holmes, Molyneux...and when we have spent it we have wasted it on the likes of Thomas and Skacel, Edited 4 May, 2009 by Chez
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 in my opinion its all about the quality of player and that is dictated by the quality of the scouting and the amount of money you can spend. Our scouts have unearthed **** like Wotton, Smith, Gasmi, Holmes, Molyneux... Yes I agree But would have Wenger say made a better job of managing them I wonder
Andy_Porter Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 We really need a long term solution for the next manager. A yong but experienced manager who won't jump ship at the first oppurtunity. Magilton would be my first choice. Ince or Boothroyd would be good as well, there are plenty of options though just need to make sure we make the right choice.
Legod Third Coming Posted 4 May, 2009 Author Posted 4 May, 2009 in my opinion its all about the quality of player and that is dictated by the quality of the scouting and the amount of money you can spend. Our scouts have unearthed **** like Wotton, Smith, Gasmi, Holmes, Molyneux...and when we have spent it we have wasted it on the likes of Thomas and Skacel, You come into the Rednapp category. He says "This game is all about players" - but clearly it isn't becuase the same players did feck all under Ramos... Which shows that old saggy chops can manage - however much we might want to believe otherwise... I keep thinking of Greece and Denmark in the Euros and Porto winning the Champions League. If it was all about players none of those things would have happened - oh and Chelsea would be winning the league. But they're not - Alex is.
Legod Third Coming Posted 4 May, 2009 Author Posted 4 May, 2009 We really need a long term solution for the next manager. A yong but experienced manager who won't jump ship at the first oppurtunity. Magilton would be my first choice. Ince or Boothroyd would be good as well, there are plenty of options though just need to make sure we make the right choice. And Andy. WE must support the choice and give them sufficient time to prove themselves, but also against a need to be promoted in year one!!!
WestSaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Couldn't agree more, so why in 2004 did we appoint Paul Sturrock, on the cheap and with no Premier experience ?[/QUO Lowe appointed him hoping that he would replicate his success at Plymouth with us and also as unproven at that level would have been a cheaper option. However, I think that certain managers are excellent at certain levels and then reach their ceiling. Sturrock is excellent at Div 1 and Div 2 where he has gained promotion twice with Plymouth , once with Swindon and once with Sheffiel Wednesday where I believe he was unfairly sacked the next season. It is easy to shout for different names hoping they will pull it off for us but in the division we find ourselves in, like him or not he is a proven success.
Give it to Ron Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I think Ince would be off like a shot as soon as a bigger club came in for him. I think he will take over one of the CC teams in the summer to repair his career.
um pahars Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 If you have no money you appoint rubbish I agree But Ted Bates was appointed from within , Lawrie Mac had no Div 1 experience like Sturrock and I cannot really remember Chris Nichol's experience. As I have said before it is very difficult to appoint the right manager and luck plays a part in getting someone in if Strachan had not failed at Coventry I wonder what would have happened to us Using the appointment of a manager 50 years ago is probably not the best way about getting your point across.
paulwantsapint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Rule 1 as Dennis Wise pointed out when he was Chelsea captain in England all dressing role talk is in English JP & MW had trouble getting their point over, exception to rule broad Scottish accent WGS man ure boss Rule 2 the boss is the boss he has to be the biggest character in dressing room LM WGS Rule 3 long term captain needs to be def or mid either very vocal or very professional & must be manger on the pitch CMFG Rule 4 boss must have final say on all team matters & have the full support of chairman & board All good managers can coach but not even all great coaches can manage
eurosaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 in my opinion its all about the quality of player and that is dictated by the quality of the scouting and the amount of money you can spend. Our scouts have unearthed **** like Wotton, Smith, Gasmi, Holmes, Molyneux...and when we have spent it we have wasted it on the likes of Thomas and Skacel, A potential good manager will have contacts with specified targets for the right league level ! That really has been a major problem in Saints recent past. Rupesy and his naive sidekicks from NL clearly had no idea how to get results in the Championship! I pray that the incoming consortium appoints a true 'football man' to the position of manager (not 'head coach' BTW) and let's him pursue a football strategy with minimal interference! If the new board is virtually anonymous then that will be an even bigger bonus ! From the new dawn onwards I would love to discuss the Saturday experience, the away trips, the team, the match, the transfers, the injuries, the suspensions, the crappy ref, the league table, etc, etc.... Forget all the bollarks of PLC's, shares, directors, etc, etc... Let's get back to the passion we all share, nothing more, nothing less !!
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 (edited) Using the appointment of a manager 50 years ago is probably not the best way about getting your point across. What is the point of making a comment like that? Because you fully understood the point I was making Edited 4 May, 2009 by John B
um pahars Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 What is the point of making a comment like that? Because like Ron I think promoting someone who is expereinced from within is not the best way to go and you were trying to counter that by suggesting Ted Bates was a success. Of course he was, but I was pointing out that that was over 50 years ago and so hardly relevant
Give it to Ron Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Because like Ron I think promoting someone who is expereinced from within is not the best way to go and you were trying to counter that by suggesting Ted Bates was a success. Of course he was, but that was over 50 years ago. Exactly...plus the game is now totally different from when Lawrie was a manager. The money that is paid now is obscene and the pressure to get to the 'promised land' is far too great for some boards and managers. For every Strachan there is a Stuart Gray.....ask Northampton. We need a proven, experienced manager that can attract decent players who are on free's, loans etc
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Because like Ron I think promoting someone who is expereinced from within is not the best way to go and you were trying to counter that by suggesting Ted Bates was a success. Of course he was, but that was over 50 years ago. Yes in most cases you are right . My general point is that it is difficult to recruit managers because there are very few really successful managers who succeed all the time. Most suceed for a bit and then ultimately fail So getting the right one in his successful cycle is difficult
um pahars Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Yes in most cases you are right . My general point is that it is difficult to recruit managers because there are very few really successful managers who succeed all the time. Most suceed for a bit and then ultimately fail So getting the right one in his successful cycle is difficult Indeed it is a tough decision and a decision that will have a massive impact on the Club, which is why I would advocate ruling out promoting "nice" coaches from within, or from scouring the Dutch lower leaues for Revolutionary Coaches!!!!!!!!!!!! I think alot of the time it's a lottery, but we didn't even give ourselves an outside chance with some of our recent appointments.
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Exactly...plus the game is now totally different from when Lawrie was a manager. The money that is paid now is obscene and the pressure to get to the 'promised land' is far too great for some boards and managers. For every Strachan there is a Stuart Gray.....ask Northampton. We need a proven, experienced manager that can attract decent players who are on free's, loans etc Yes I totally agree but I think it is more difficult in practise than in theory. There are so many other factors including the ability to pay the wages of the players as well
oggiee Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Theres this guy called Nigel Pearson about, I heard hes pretty good...
A Nut Can Cut You Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Our scouts have unearthed **** like Wotton, Smith, Gasmi, Holmes, Molyneux... I actually wondered if the club used an outdated scouting database for signings last summer. Wotton, Smith, and Holmes certainly seem like signings that might have been watched as potential up-and-comers two or three years earlier. I think we were linked with Wotton around that time, too. Would explain signing a Millwall reserve. What we should do is find a hitherto little-known young manager in the mould of Coyle.
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Indeed it is a tough decision and a decision that will have a massive impact on the Club, which is why I would advocate ruling out promoting "nice" coaches from within, or from scouring the Dutch lower leaues for Revolutionary Coaches!!!!!!!!!!!! I think alot of the time it's a lottery, but we didn't even give ourselves an outside chance with some of our recent appointments. Yes that is completely true but I can see why certain appointments were made but as I did not know all the facts behind them I went along with them The only appointment I thought was completely and utterly wrong was Gray's but that turned out OK because Strachan then became available .
SaintRobbie Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Newcastle are about to drop into the Championship with half a billion behind them. Sunderland could easily do likewise with their moneybags consortium. Nowrich have been relegated despite Delia's cash. But Bolton are safe as houses, as are Doncaster - for now. Which tells me, it doesn't matter how much you've got in the bank, if you've got coco the clown on the bench. The first job for our new owners is to find the right manager - and let him invest (or not) in the playing squad. Priority number one, day one. Agreed. 100% correct.
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 think priority number one day one is getting Kelvin to sign a contract. Other than that I agree.
SaintRobbie Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 think priority number one day one is getting Kelvin to sign a contract. Other than that I agree. Unless the new manager knows someone better... ? But yes I'd love to see us building from the back with KD.
um pahars Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Yes that is completely true but I can see why certain appointments were made but as I did not know all the facts behind them I went along with them The only appointment I thought was completely and utterly wrong was Gray's but that turned out OK because Strachan then became available . Are you really admitting to thinking Wigley was a good appointment??? This is the same Wigley who ruled himself out six months earlier!!!!!
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Unless the new manager knows someone better... ? But yes I'd love to see us building from the back with KD. It would be impossible to get someone better in our position.
Stirchleysaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I cannot really remember Chris Nichol's experience. Two years as player-manager at Grimsby. They were a mid-table Division 2 team at the time.
sadoldgit Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 It is not one thing or another, but what is ceratin is that if you are not bank rolled to a decent extent eventually you will go down.
eurosaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 It is not one thing or another, but what is ceratin is that if you are not bank rolled to a decent extent eventually you will go down. Agreed, we need financial stability and a bloody good manager ! Oligarch owner and revolutionary coaches are not the preferred option !
SaintRobbie Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 It would be impossible to get someone better in our position. I think youre right.
gjphilsaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 If you have no money you appoint rubbish I agree But Ted Bates was appointed from within , Lawrie Mac had no Div 1 experience like Sturrock and I cannot really remember Chris Nichol's experience. As I have said before it is very difficult to appoint the right manager and luck plays a part in getting someone in if Strachan had not failed at Coventry I wonder what would have happened to us Sadly Sturrock is quite an ill man so I have heard....not sure exactly how long he will be fit enough to manage at Plymouth...
gjphilsaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I would really want Sturrock today though in Div 1. But picking a successful manager is very difficult I feel some of those who are successful this season will not be next and then sacked You mention Sturrock had no Premier experience but Pearson had little experience full stop but is thought to be a good manager. Sam Allardyce had a lot of Premier experience but was sacked through poor results at Newcastle. Getting the right mix and standard of players is the key I feel sorry i meant to quote this post and not the one above...
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Are you really admitting to thinking Wigley was a good appointment??? This is the same Wigley who ruled himself out six months earlier!!!!! No I did not say that I remember I when I first heard about I was quite shocked and had to keep reading the CEEFAX to check that he was permanent as we were on holiday. As SFC had had great difficulty recruiting a replacement foe Strachan and Wigley had been involved in Pre Season I thought having Wigley would not cause much disruption and he could be replaced if someone of quality became available how wrong I was
John B Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Sadly Sturrock is quite an ill man so I have heard....not sure exactly how long he will be fit enough to manage at Plymouth... Thats a shame because he has been relatively successful in a number of clubs
Weston Super Saint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Couldn't agree more, so why in 2004 did we appoint Paul Sturrock, on the cheap and with no Premier experience ? Because Hoddle is worse
Verbal Kint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I think the most important thing when it comes to selecting managers is their relationship with the Chairman, who effectively acts as a go betweeen from the manager to the board. Whoever comes in as manager has to identify someone they think they can work with, and most importantly someone they trust to do things their own way. That, for me, was Rupert's main problem when appointing managers. With the exception of Strachan, he seemed to appoint yes managers who would run the team in his vision. There are two stand out names for me, and both represent different angles. Dowie i think has been unfairly treated in all of his latest jobs, as the stats will tell you, and i think he has a good level of experience. He's been pretty successful wherever he's been, except Charlton where he wasn't given enough time, and he just needs a club who are going to give him time to do things his own way (unlike at Coventry and QPR). The other is Tisdale, who's record so far cannot be faulted. He's had as near a perfect start to his managerial career as you could hope for, and i don't think it can be disputed he has huge potential to go on and be a very successful manager. Those would be my two, but whoever it is needs to be given a lot of time to get things right. Not one or two years, but four or five years to rebuild the club the way they want it.
eurosaint Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I think the most important thing when it comes to selecting managers is their relationship with the Chairman, who effectively acts as a go betweeen from the manager to the board. Whoever comes in as manager has to identify someone they think they can work with, and most importantly someone they trust to do things their own way. That, for me, was Rupert's main problem when appointing managers. With the exception of Strachan, he seemed to appoint yes managers who would run the team in his vision. There are two stand out names for me, and both represent different angles. Dowie i think has been unfairly treated in all of his latest jobs, as the stats will tell you, and i think he has a good level of experience. He's been pretty successful wherever he's been, except Charlton where he wasn't given enough time, and he just needs a club who are going to give him time to do things his own way (unlike at Coventry and QPR). The other is Tisdale, who's record so far cannot be faulted. He's had as near a perfect start to his managerial career as you could hope for, and i don't think it can be disputed he has huge potential to go on and be a very successful manager. Those would be my two, but whoever it is needs to be given a lot of time to get things right. Not one or two years, but four or five years to rebuild the club the way they want it. I think a certain Mr Redknapp may dispute this statement ???
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