Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 My complaint re Mike Jones I had a letter back from the FA yesterday which was the usual brush off ie football is a game of opinions etc etc. However, they did provide a specific address and e mail which is below if anyone else wishes to complain (I don't think the club will bother as their minds are on other things). David Allison, Referee's Manager, The Football League, Edward V11 Quay, Navigation Way, Preston, PR2 2YF or e mail fl@football-league.co.uk I see Wotton's injuries are very severe - 30 stitches, missing teeth and a broken jaw. He is on liquid food for 6 weeks. Incredibly while he was prone on the pitch Mr Jones was on his way to his dressing room leaving the Burnley players to frantically signal for the physio for urgent help.
OldNick Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 My complaint re Mike Jones I had a letter back from the FA yesterday which was the usual brush off ie football is a game of opinions etc etc. However, they did provide a specific address and e mail which is below if anyone else wishes to complain (I don't think the club will bother as their minds are on other things). David Allison, Referee's Manager, The Football League, Edward V11 Quay, Navigation Way, Preston, PR2 2YF or e mail fl@football-league.co.uk I see Wotton's injuries are very severe - 30 stitches, missing teeth and a broken jaw. He is on liquid food for 6 weeks. Incredibly while he was prone on the pitch Mr Jones was on his way to his dressing room leaving the Burnley players to frantically signal for the physio for urgent help. I have not seen a replay of the Wotton incident but I do know the players and staff wrere not happy with the challenge.
Saint Fan CaM Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 Wotton took an elbow in the face for his trouble - an act that should have seen the offending player sent off and banned - I also think it was premeditated and a grudge attack from an earlier incident in the game. The referree should be banned from ever officiating a match ever again IMO. I am incensed at the incompetence of the man and I truly hope the club put in a formal complaint themselves (this is the only course of action that will stand-up - they will not listen to fans). In fact Wotton should prosecute the offending player AND the referree for his injuries. Lets face it that would be classed as GBH if it had happened on the street. The refs poor decision making at that point in the game... (a) potentially lost us the game as there was still time to take a free-kick, (b) signalled the pitch invasion, © caused a player to be potentially in great danger, (d) let the offending Burnley player off the hook (which might have an effect on their subsequent league position). :mad:
kelkel31 Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 i like that they say that the game is one of opinions as i thought that the rules of the game were set out in writing and that the referees were there to enforce those rules. IMHO the referee bent the rules in that game to the point where they almost broke and the challenge on wotton was so blatant he should have received a substantial ban from officiating matches and sent well down the leagues! (bypassing us on the way) Carlise should feel very lucky to be able to play any part of the playoffs as it was very clearly a deliberate attempt to injure a player!
Saint in Paradise Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 Men who were there and truthfully saw this incident MUST tell the authorities. It is your duty just keep it short, polite and calm. Don't tell us tell "them".
davefoggy Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 having had a week to calm down after the game i still of the opinion think it was the worst refereeing performance i have ever witnessed watching saints. i was that angry at half time i was even thinking about getting onto the pitch and attacking him at half time, so glad i didn't follow that thought through!! i have never seen just a biased and inconsistent refereeing display, and I can still see him legging it off the pitch at full time while all 22 players remained on the pitch. he was totally ****ting himself. an utter disgrace
Snopper Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 Thanks for the update, Duncan. I always thought that one of the prime responsibilities that referees have is the safety and wellbeing of the players. Jones`s action in scampering off to the changing rooms, having left the field of play with a player clearly badly injured, was nothing short of an abdication of that basic responsibility. I agree nothing is likely to happen if `just` the fans complain, but I hope the club are taking the matter up themselves.
pilsburydoughboy Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 How about a theory of mine. In my opinion the ref was told to ensure that Saints were made to go down on saturday and endure the ten point deduction in next season. This only my opinion.
OldNick Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 How about a theory of mine. In my opinion the ref was told to ensure that Saints were made to go down on saturday and endure the ten point deduction in next season. This only my opinion.whne I posted a thread saying something on those lines a couple of weeks ago I was pilloried
rocknrollman no2 Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 How about a theory of mine. In my opinion the ref was told to ensure that Saints were made to go down on saturday and endure the ten point deduction in next season. This only my opinion. pilsburydoughboy you are not alone. Lots of us think this is the case.
SFC Forever Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 Does anyone have contact with a relatively openminded media source? The ref BOTTLED it and even sky sports didn't highlight it. If only we were still one of the favoured then carlisle would have been hauled over the coals. Perhaps Matt should be shown the film of it because it must be on the film of the match.
SFC Forever Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 Reminds me of the Watford match where there 1st goalscorer at st Mary's could have been sent off for violent conduct before his chance came later in the game. Ref didn't even give us a foul. Story of our season though sadly.
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 I have not seen a replay of the Wotton incident but I do know the players and staff wrere not happy with the challenge. Is your complaint likely to have an effect on the result?
OldNick Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 Is your complaint likely to have an effect on the result?No and the FL will support the ref. I would have liked the incident to be highlighted like Morgans was against the Barnsley player. It was outrageous on the day but i have yet to see footage of it since.It is reall strange none has appeared.
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 No and the FL will support the ref. I would have liked the incident to be highlighted like Morgans was against the Barnsley player. It was outrageous on the day but i have yet to see footage of it since.It is reall strange none has appeared. But to be fair, what is to be gained? who really cares now? SFC has bigger fish to fry.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 May, 2009 Author Posted 2 May, 2009 But to be fair, what is to be gained? who really cares now? SFC has bigger fish to fry. So a poor ref gets away with gross ineptitude and is left to continue his career unblemished. And you ask who really cares now? Perhaps you had better ask Paul Wotton?
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 So a poor ref gets away with gross ineptitude and is left to continue his career unblemished. And you ask who really cares now? Perhaps you had better ask Paul Wotton? What difference will it make? My guess is NONE! I doubt Wooton is growling after the ref, he got injured, the rest is irrelevant to him i'm sure.
rocknrollman no2 Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 I totally understand where Windmill is coming from.Like it or not he is right. The fooball league will never go against one of their own.What ever happens,we are still in League One and the Burnley result will still stand,as will the non action against the player who fouled Wotton will go un noticed. I dont like it anymore than anyone else,but thats the way the game is now days. The way the FA treats Saints,dont be surprised if we see that idiot of a ref presiding over a few of our games next season.
MOSaint. Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 Heres the reply I got Thank you for your email, the content of which has been noted. We will ensure Professional Game Match Officials – the body responsible for the management and administration of match officials is made aware of your view. We can advise that the performances of all officials are constantly monitored by way of club and assessor reports, the match video or DVD and, at some grounds, the Prozone statistics. The match is also analysed by the Referees' Manager, referee's coach and the referee and, despite the perception of some, match officials are most accountable for their performance. Referees make their decision based on years of training and experience and what they see at that moment in time, from a position different from anyone else in the ground - he can only act on what he sees, assisted by the other match officials and not everyone will agree with the decisions he takes. Whilst you are of course fully entitled to you view, in accordance with the Laws of Association Football it is the referee’s opinion that counts. As a referee you more than most will understand how difficult the role is and that the angle any incident is viewed from by the referee is different from any other person in the ground. I am sure you always give what you saw as honest decisions, but I guarantee they are challenged by players and possibly supporters.
Deano6 Posted 2 May, 2009 Posted 2 May, 2009 How about a theory of mine. In my opinion the ref was told to ensure that Saints were made to go down on saturday and endure the ten point deduction in next season. This only my opinion. I suppose this is why he awarded us a penalty while we were leading 2-1.
lordswoodsaints Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 having had a week to calm down after the game i still of the opinion think it was the worst refereeing performance i have ever witnessed watching saints. i was that angry at half time i was even thinking about getting onto the pitch and attacking him at half time, so glad i didn't follow that thought through!! i have never seen just a biased and inconsistent refereeing display, and I can still see him legging it off the pitch at full time while all 22 players remained on the pitch. he was totally ****ting himself. an utter disgrace He was clearly under orders to make life difficult for us and prevent us from winning but then again so were our players.
eurosaint Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 This is best left alone imo. It will only draw attention to the disgraceful pich invasion and the FL will back the referee every time. Agreed ! Also nobody has mentioned the fact that Wotton has said that there was no mailicious intent, Carlisle came to check him in the dressing room, they shook hands and that was the end of it ! Writing to the authorities in this case is totally pointless !
Eastcowzer Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 No mention of the other incompetent, i.e. the linesman on the Itchen side. Seemed to be making the rules up as he went along. A complete idiot flagging for 'off-side with the nearest Saints player at least 4-5 yards on side.
Deano6 Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 He was clearly under orders to make life difficult for us and prevent us from winning but then again so were our players. Again, you are overlooking the fact he awarded us a soft penalty for a shirt pull while we were leading 2-1. Give it up.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 3 May, 2009 Author Posted 3 May, 2009 Again, you are overlooking the fact he awarded us a soft penalty for a shirt pull while we were leading 2-1. Give it up. why is it a soft penalty - Euell was in an excellent position and was clearly pulled back - blatant imo!
SaintRobbie Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 He was very poor. To be fair alot of the trouble at the end of the game was caused by his lack of control. That ref will need to shoulder some of the blame due to the confusion he caused.
benjii Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 Again, you are overlooking the fact he awarded us a soft penalty for a shirt pull while we were leading 2-1. Give it up. Unbelievable isn't it?! The ref was ****, yes. The ref was biased, no.
eelpie Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 This is best left alone imo. It will only draw attention to the disgraceful pich invasion and the FL will back the referee every time. ...Unless we are docked more points for the pitch invasion.
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 It's obvious what he was thinking: We're deep into stoppage time. That's a foul to the red & whites. Oh my god, that injury is horrific and we'll be out here for ages until he's treated. There's less than a minute to go and this lot are never going to score in a month of Sundays. I might as well blow for time now. I've made a right mess of this one, quick, get off the pitch as quickly as possible.
benjii Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 It's obvious what he was thinking: We're deep into stoppage time. That's a foul to the red & whites. Oh my god, that injury is horrific and we'll be out here for ages until he's treated. There's less than a minute to go and this lot are never going to score in a month of Sundays. I might as well blow for time now. I've made a right mess of this one, quick, get off the pitch as quickly as possible. I think that's correct, except for the bit in bold, as I don't think he actually awarded a free-kick.
The Majestic Channon Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 David armstrong said after the match that the ref had a good steady game .
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 May, 2009 Posted 3 May, 2009 I think that's correct, except for the bit in bold, as I don't think he actually awarded a free-kick. He signalled a free kick by pointing towards their goal with his left arm and he whistled at the same time. He followed it up almost immediately with a few more feeble 'blasts' and a couple of players started strolling over to him. Some referees also signal the end of the game by sticking their arm in the air but normally they point to the tunnel. Either way, it was early and all a bit of a mess.
SoccerMom Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 David armstrong said after the match that the ref had a good steady game . He was wrong. We didn't see the incident as I decided we should leave a bit early in case there was any trouble that I didn't want the nipper to witness. However, the ref did not have a good steady game - I would not have expected trouble had it been - but it was inevitable given the level of aggro on the pitch and his complete inability to deal with it.
benjii Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 He was wrong. We didn't see the incident as I decided we should leave a bit early in case there was any trouble that I didn't want the nipper to witness. However, the ref did not have a good steady game - I would not have expected trouble had it been - but it was inevitable given the level of aggro on the pitch and his complete inability to deal with it. I think you've done a typo there. You spelt, "the raving mongs in the stand", "the level of aggro on the pitch".
The Majestic Channon Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I cant believe the trouble on the pitch was influenced by the ref, was the the ****e v charlton??
SoccerMom Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I think you've done a typo there. You spelt, "the raving mongs in the stand", "the level of aggro on the pitch". Like I said, I didn't see any of the trouble in the stands as we left a little early. But in my (long, pre-nipper, pre-PL) experience, fans get even more wound up when they see players knocking seven shades of s**t out of each other, and they are more likely to want to get stuck in after the match. There were serious handbags off the ball between Wotton and Carlisle(? - couldn't see that clearly), and there was a lot of pushing, shoving and slapping going on before the set-pieces. The ref bottled that at well. And when you get that level of aggro on the pitch that is completely uncontrolled, you generally get trouble after the game.
benjii Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Like I said, I didn't see any of the trouble in the stands as we left a little early. But in my (long, pre-nipper, pre-PL) experience, fans get even more wound up when they see players knocking seven shades of s**t out of each other, and they are more likely to want to get stuck in after the match. There were serious handbags off the ball between Wotton and Carlisle(? - couldn't see that clearly), and there was a lot of pushing, shoving and slapping going on before the set-pieces. When you get that level of aggro on the pitch that is completely uncontrolled, you generally get trouble after the game. I agree that there was definitely an atmosphere surrounding the game, which was caused largely by the refs failure to control it. It was pretty clear though that a reasonable element had decided to go on the pitch regardless of events on or off the pitch. Furthermore, although the ref was ****e, there have been plenty of refs that have had a more negative effect on Saints. He did, after all, award us a pelanty. I remember much worse and more detrimental refereeing performaces affecting Saints in the past but no pitch invasion/mass confrontation. He was gash, but to blame him for the actions of the imbeciles is like blaming someone dressed like a tart for getting groped.
niceandfriendly Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Again, you are overlooking the fact he awarded us a soft penalty for a shirt pull while we were leading 2-1. Give it up. I've no opinion on the Wotton incident, but just wanted to point out that our penalty it was far from "soft". Euell was in a great position and his shirt was almost pulled off his back. Blatent pen which could have been spotted from the McDonalds in Basingstoke.
SoccerMom Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I agree that there was definitely an atmosphere surrounding the game, which was caused largely by the refs failure to control it. It was pretty clear though that a reasonable element had decided to go on the pitch regardless of events on or off the pitch. Furthermore, although the ref was ****e, there have been plenty of refs that have had a more negative effect on Saints. He did, after all, award us a pelanty. I remember much worse and more detrimental refereeing performaces affecting Saints in the past but no pitch invasion/mass confrontation. He was gash, but to blame him for the actions of the imbeciles is like blaming someone dressed like a tart for getting groped. Hmm, not sure about your last, but... I blame the ref for not containing the violence on the pitch - and I may have not been very clear about it, but what I hoped I got across was that because there was such a lot of aggro between the players, I expected there would be trouble afterwards. I don't blame him for the actions of others, but had he been more competent I might have had more confidence in staying on a bit longer. Just as well for us, I guess, that I didn't. It wasn't clear to us sitting in the family area that there was already trouble brewing. Refs making bad decisions are one thing - from grass roots up to the highest levels there are refs who get decisions the wrong way, but I think it's actually worse for refs to just turn a blind eye to violent conduct on or off the ball. The man was a coward - his actions at the end of the match just confirm that for me. And you can't be a coward and be a good referee, for all sorts of reasons.
SKATE_HATE Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 How about a theory of mine. In my opinion the ref was told to ensure that Saints were made to go down on saturday and endure the ten point deduction in next season. This only my opinion. Why did give us a penalty then?
Deano6 Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 I've no opinion on the Wotton incident, but just wanted to point out that our penalty it was far from "soft". Euell was in a great position and his shirt was almost pulled off his back. Blatent pen which could have been spotted from the McDonalds in Basingstoke. Soft or not, awarding it is not the actions of a man trying to prevent Saints from winning!
benjii Posted 4 May, 2009 Posted 4 May, 2009 Hmm, not sure about your last, but... I blame the ref for not containing the violence on the pitch - and I may have not been very clear about it, but what I hoped I got across was that because there was such a lot of aggro between the players, I expected there would be trouble afterwards. I don't blame him for the actions of others, but had he been more competent I might have had more confidence in staying on a bit longer. Just as well for us, I guess, that I didn't. It wasn't clear to us sitting in the family area that there was already trouble brewing. Refs making bad decisions are one thing - from grass roots up to the highest levels there are refs who get decisions the wrong way, but I think it's actually worse for refs to just turn a blind eye to violent conduct on or off the ball. The man was a coward - his actions at the end of the match just confirm that for me. And you can't be a coward and be a good referee, for all sorts of reasons. I agree completely with your last paragraph. As someone who was in the Northam, I got the definite feeling that there were people there determined to make their own "sport" at the final whistle come what may. I agree that the ref may not have helped. I think a bigger contributor was probably the police's strange actions with their dogs.
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