Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 From today's Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/27/southampton-burnley-championship-relegation
moon monkey Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 The club has suffered enough, now it's time for those who were responsible for this financial mess to be investigated and brought to justice. Now the season is over, the blame game needs to be resolved.
stanthemanfairoak Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 From today's Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/27/southampton-burnley-championship-relegationnot much we did`nt already know.
Kingsland Codger Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I enjoyed the sentence towards the end ... "Harry Redknapp, who started the rot by guiding Southampton down from the Premier League four years ago ... " Good to see a footie journalist get something right
TNT Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I enjoyed the sentence towards the end ... "Harry Redknapp, who started the rot by guiding Southampton down from the Premier League four years ago ... " Good to see a footie journalist get something right Had nothing to do with Redknapp as he took on a sunk ship in the same scenario as Mark Wotte. I would be amazed if £40 million went missing other than in players pockets.
dubai_phil Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I enjoyed the sentence towards the end ... "Harry Redknapp, who started the rot by guiding Southampton down from the Premier League four years ago ... " Good to see a footie journalist get something right You missed out 'Arry's dig at Lowe though which was quality... "you need serious money men, not someone from the Fred Goodwin school of humanity"
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 £40m ?? If the financial irregularity is to that extent then surely adminstrator Fry would have uncovered that by now ? Sensationalism ? 40m is far too much to hide with the transparency we are told exists in a PLC structure, even in a 10year period.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 So now the press are alleging what we have been alluding to all along! Those that were in charge really did think us fans were gullible. If it's found that there is any amount of money missing and they find out who is responsible for that then surely it will lead to a fraud charge? If so and found guilty will they be made to return as much as is possible to the company? No wonder nobody wanted to sell! Any more dirty laundry to be found under the bed? And we trusted these people, despite our reservations, because we had no choice.
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Had nothing to do with Redknapp as he took on a sunk ship Nonsense
thefuriousb Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Had nothing to do with Redknapp as he took on a sunk ship in the same scenario as Mark Wotte. Yet with pretty much the same number of games, Portsmouth survived the following year - picking up 20 points from the last 30 available? Redknapp, Lowe, the players - all share the blame for the relegation from the PL in 2005. In much the same way, Wotte has had enough games to get 1 or 2 more victories. As too have the players. Even with Lowe's "meddling". No one is absolved from blame in the last 6 years, in my view
Ponty Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I'm not sure this counts as news. It may be true, I guess, but I'd be astonished if it is. You don't just syphon £40m off the books of a PLC without someone noticing. I'll wager this is sensationalism at its very best. Also, Redknapp took us down - no question about that. We weren't exactly dead and buried when he took over. In fact, I believe we weren't even in the relegation zone.
TNT Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Nonsense Redknapp had bugger all to do with relegation as they where already down when he turned up. The disastrous shambles that Lowe had orchestrated with Sturrock then Wigley was the reason for relegation. Not even Alex Ferguson coming in would of saved SFC at the time from going down. Lowe even made Redknapps job impossible with interference and spying. I suppose we could blame Peter Crouch for not holding on to the ball against Everton and them equalizing at the death.
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Redknapp had bugger all to do with relegation as they where already down when he turned up. The disastrous shambles that Lowe had orchestrated with Sturrock then Wigley was the reason for relegation. Not even Alex Ferguson coming in would of saved SFC at the time from going down. Lowe even made Redknapps job impossible with interference and spying. I suppose we could blame Peter Crouch for not holding on to the ball against Everton and them equalizing at the death. More nonsense
wireframebox Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I've heard they are also going to look in to the irregularities of the Ted Hough transfer from Talbot Stead Tubeworks... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hough
corky morris Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 The only thing that would make me smile about all this is seeing Rupert Lowe in prison!
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 April, 2009 Author Posted 27 April, 2009 I've heard they are also going to look in to the irregularities of the Ted Hough transfer from Talbot Stead Tubeworks... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hough I see I get the blame for that story too
itchen Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 You missed out 'Arry's dig at Lowe though which was quality... "you need serious money men, not someone from the Fred Goodwin school of humanity" If you look at the quotation marks, Redknapp only said the first bit - the rest was the journalist.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 April, 2009 Author Posted 27 April, 2009 I'm not sure this counts as news. It may be true, I guess, but I'd be astonished if it is. You don't just syphon £40m off the books of a PLC without someone noticing. I'll wager this is sensationalism at its very best. Also, Redknapp took us down - no question about that. We weren't exactly dead and buried when he took over. In fact, I believe we weren't even in the relegation zone. Sensationalism maybe but the whole piece is well written and I would hazard a guess the journo would have got his info from Fry re the missing 40m or it could have come from the FL team that recently investigated our books. And as for syphoning large amounts off PLC books Ponty - I don't think you read enough papers - it is rife.
Gingeletiss Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 My take on all these quotes.........is that we have stalkers, they are watching this forum, beware!!!!!!!!
gordonToo Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 The only thing that would make me smile about all this is seeing Rupert Lowe in prison! Are you perhaps suggesting a link between the missing £40m and the esteemed ex-chairman?
Jonnyboy Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 You missed out 'Arry's dig at Lowe though which was quality... "you need serious money men, not someone from the Fred Goodwin school of humanity" You got the speech marks in the wrong place.
saint_mears Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 More nonsense Looks right to me as the main culprit is Lowe in relegation (x 2)
eurosaint Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 i see i get the blame for that story too holley out !!!
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I'm not sure this counts as news. It may be true, I guess, but I'd be astonished if it is. You don't just syphon £40m off the books of a PLC without someone noticing. I'll wager this is sensationalism at its very best. Really ? Everybody, from Saints fans to Fleet Street editors, knows about Lowe's predillection for resolving such things with libel writs. I would argue that the Guardian must have been pretty sure of its facts or the source of them to go public with this.
Alain Perrin Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 If there was any hint of a 'missing £40m', surely the forensic audit that Wilde and Co carried out would have discovered it. And, if they discovered it, they would most certainly have publicised it as it would have taken the heat off of them. I am afraid there is a simple explanation for where the £40m went. Transfers, playing staff salaries and failed coaches. When even a mediocre player gets £0.5m a year that's £1.5m for the life of the contract. If you look at last season when we had a lot of players, many on substantial contracts, you can see where the money went.
madsent Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Had nothing to do with Redknapp as he took on a sunk ship in the same scenario as Mark Wotte. I would be amazed if £40 million went missing other than in players pockets. How can you not blame Redknapp at all ? We were out of the relegation zone when he joined and we finished bottom. He never stopped telling the world how bad the existing players were and how hard it would be to stay up. He put out inexplicable teams on several occasions. I can still remember how shocked I was with the team at Birmingham (Niemi, Van Damme, Lundekvam, Crouch, Delap, Prutton, Bernard, Telfer, Jones, Redknapp and Davenport). I couldn't work out how come he made so many changes from a team that beat Liverpool and Pompey in consecutive matches. Why would you pick Davenport when Svensson was available ? Why would you give a debut to a Kenwyne Jones on the right wing ? He then completely demoralised the team and fans with his appalling choice to put a reserve team out against Man Utd in the cup. Ask Steve Coppell and Martin O'Neill whether they regret putting weakened sides on the pitch in cup games. The thing I found most ridiculous was that Redknapp thought Prutton was key to our survival but failed to recognise that a win over (or draw with) Man Utd would take at least a game off his ban. That led to the worst of Redknapp's mistakes - the team for our last Premier League game. How anyone could pick a clearly not fit Prutton and choose a striker with no goals in the entire season (Ormerod) over Phillips is beyond me.
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I am afraid there is a simple explanation for where the £40m went. Transfers, playing staff salaries and failed coaches. When even a mediocre player gets £0.5m a year that's £1.5m for the life of the contract. If you look at last season when we had a lot of players, many on substantial contracts, you can see where the money went. Well that hardly counts as "missing", does it ?
david in sweden Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Had nothing to do with Redknapp as he took on a sunk ship in the same scenario as Mark Wotte. I would be amazed if £40 million went missing other than in players pockets. ......OR in agents fees and over paid players !
Frank's cousin Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Its fairly comon for these sort of rumours - Ex pros have been on air spouting this nonosense as well. A fraud on that scale - over 50% of the turnover the last 4 years, could not have been missed by the INDEPENDENT auditors evry year - so I woudl be amazed if this is anything other than another piece of junk journo copy. If it has happened, then at least all the bastards involved would face jail - but this is really highly unlikely - the sums dont even add up.
obelisk Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Well that hardly counts as "missing", does it ? Misspent perhaps?
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Misspent perhaps? Yes, but its accountable for in that case.
Frank's cousin Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 All those talking about this in the past and now have done is add up the sale price of those players we have sold since relegation - none have taken into account the payoffs of contracts, agent fees, the cost of new players and loans, sign on fees etc nor the shortfall everyyear of revenue v costs - I am surprised teh journo did not print out the last 5 years Annual financial statements and do the simple maths.... lazy crap again
Red and White Army Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I would argue that the Guardian must have been pretty sure of its facts or the source of them to go public with this. I'd argue that it is completely and utterly baseless. Time will tell that I am right and you are wrong, as normal.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Really ? Everybody, from Saints fans to Fleet Street editors, knows about Lowe's predillection for resolving such things with libel writs. I would argue that the Guardian must have been pretty sure of its facts or the source of them to go public with this. I see what you're saying there, so if he keeps silent (Lowe) what could be construed from him remaining so?
rallyboy Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Rumour and gossip aside, the figures have never stacked up. Look at the tranfer money coming in and the cost of the stadium and it doesn't make sense that we are in this state. I would welcome a good look at the accounts in detail - or at least having them explained by someone who understands them! I would like to know the costs of Woodward, manager payoffs, Redknapp, players, agents, and most specifically, dividends and directors' expenses. We can then have a top ten of financial blunders with a number one. After a couple of seasons of accusations it would be good to actually get to the facts and see if we are correct in thinking where the blame lies. We have all summer to fill....
badgerx16 Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 For clarification, when Redkrapp took over we were 18th with 12 pts from 16 games: Brum P 16 Pts 14 GD -6 Palace P16 Pts 13 GD -7 Blackburn P 16 Pts 13 GD -14 Saints P 16 Pts 12 GD -9 Norwich P 16 Pts 12 GD -12 WBA P 16 Pts 10 GD -16 So we were most definitely NOT already dowm
SaintDonkey Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Great - financial irregularities will mean more docked points, even if the guilty parties are long gone from the club. Conference south here we come!
scally Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 For clarification, when Redkrapp took over we were 18th with 12 pts from 16 games: Brum P 16 Pts 14 GD -6 Palace P16 Pts 13 GD -7 Blackburn P 16 Pts 13 GD -14 Saints P 16 Pts 12 GD -9 Norwich P 16 Pts 12 GD -12 WBA P 16 Pts 10 GD -16 So we were most definitely NOT already dowm If you look at the fixtures we had a really difficult run in, we lost or drew too many winnable home games under Wigley.
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 I'd argue that it is completely and utterly baseless. Time will tell that I am right and you are wrong, as normal. You really have a problem...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Rumour and gossip aside, the figures have never stacked up. Look at the tranfer money coming in and the cost of the stadium and it doesn't make sense that we are in this state. I would welcome a good look at the accounts in detail - or at least having them explained by someone who understands them! I would like to know the costs of Woodward, manager payoffs, Redknapp, players, agents, and most specifically, dividends and directors' expenses. We can then have a top ten of financial blunders with a number one. After a couple of seasons of accusations it would be good to actually get to the facts and see if we are correct in thinking where the blame lies. We have all summer to fill.... I dont really believe the story myself, I think you have explained the "missing" money. As to why it has described as "missing", I do not know.
Saint Billy Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 How much damage is this rumour going to do to a potential buyout?
Window Cleaner Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Had nothing to do with Redknapp as he took on a sunk ship in the same scenario as Mark Wotte. I would be amazed if £40 million went missing other than in players pockets. But the players often went 'missing in action' so it's the same thing basically.
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 How much damage is this rumour going to do to a potential buyout? None whatsoever. New buyers will not be liable for this missing money. Its more of a criminal investigation (potentially)..
Frank's cousin Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 Rumour and gossip aside, the figures have never stacked up. Look at the tranfer money coming in and the cost of the stadium and it doesn't make sense that we are in this state. I would welcome a good look at the accounts in detail - or at least having them explained by someone who understands them! I would like to know the costs of Woodward, manager payoffs, Redknapp, players, agents, and most specifically, dividends and directors' expenses. We can then have a top ten of financial blunders with a number one. After a couple of seasons of accusations it would be good to actually get to the facts and see if we are correct in thinking where the blame lies. We have all summer to fill.... I would suggest we are careful with unfounded allegations. - seriously just take the time to read through teh last 4-5 years annual accounts - I am no 'forensic' accountant, but the maths do add up... you might not like what everything was spent on and we certainly 'wasted' a few quid, but I could not see anything that suggested any fraud, let alone on the magnitude that has been alluded to - seems to me that this is just a vicious rumour that many enjoy spreading becaus eof those it allegedly implicates... If any has been involved in skulduggary they will get found out and go to Jail without collecting £200 and rightly so, but I susupect we wont see anyone in need of a Community Chest Get-out-of-jail-free card any time soon...
SaintDonkey Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 None whatsoever. New buyers will not be liable for this missing money. Its more of a criminal investigation (potentially).. Tell that to the Luton board!
Saint Billy Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 None whatsoever. New buyers will not be liable for this missing money. Its more of a criminal investigation (potentially).. Thank feck for that.
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 More nonsense How can you write that? Redknap may share a small amount of the blame but Lowe decision to sack sturrock and then appoint SW, and then leave it to long to realise that SW was out of his depth were the main reasons for the relegation. But this is a well trodden path and should now be left in history. But people should stop laying the blame at Redknapp just because of his blue connections. with regard to the money - I would just like to know how the initial stadium build cost circa £32m - we had £5m from barrett as a deposit - leving £27m outstanding - so how come 8/9 years down the line we still owe £24m - what with Sky money, premiership prize money and a few bumper years of crowds, certainly under WGS.? These are big questions and a proper investigation/audit needs to be done to clear everyones name - or reveal THE TRUTH. ...and lets just leave the past where it is and move on!
derry Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 If anybody had an idea that there was money missing not shown in the books and I personally feel that unlikely, it's the fraud office not the FA/league that would be dealing with any investigation.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 April, 2009 Author Posted 27 April, 2009 Its fairly comon for these sort of rumours - Ex pros have been on air spouting this nonosense as well. A fraud on that scale - over 50% of the turnover the last 4 years, could not have been missed by the INDEPENDENT auditors evry year - so I woudl be amazed if this is anything other than another piece of junk journo copy. If it has happened, then at least all the bastards involved would face jail - but this is really highly unlikely - the sums dont even add up. Frank - from someone who never spell checks his posts on here and then talks about junk journalism or lazy journalism I feel your remarks everso slightly hypocrtical This piece in the Guardian was a well-written report of both the match and our position and although the sum seems ludicrously large I think it should at least provoke some sort of serious debate. FWIW I would not cast one glance in Lowe's direction (in case some think I am looking to get back at him -not intererested, he is history) but there were some pretty unscrupulous people i/c of our club at one stage if some are to be believed.
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