Guan 2.0 Posted 25 April, 2009 Posted 25 April, 2009 I'm Norwegian and just got the bad news. After I just finished crying my eyes out I just had to post. Surely finding out you're Norwegian isn't that bad?
SaintRobbie Posted 25 April, 2009 Posted 25 April, 2009 If we appeal we'll start in League 1 with minus 15 or 20 points IMHO.
Billy Lyre Posted 25 April, 2009 Posted 25 April, 2009 The only difference between this scenario and what actually occurred is that Leon Bloody Best missed a penalty kick :mad: (excuse the hyperbole) I thought it was Idiakez, but I had spent the day in The Brunswick and The Victoria...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 Starting on -10 shouldn't make much difference as long as we get a buyer. We should be able to put together a strong enough squad to compete at top/middle level. Promotion was never really going to be likely so in that rspect it's not relevant and I would think we should be able to finish at least 10 points above the drop zone.
thorpie the sinner Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 We need to have a totally fresh impetus starting from owner, through manager and then some new players!!! If the cancer that took us here is allowed to come back, we may as well call time now!!
Victor Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 The 10 point penalty IS unfair and should be contested. As I understand it, the penalty is there to discourage clubs from ‘buying’ promotion with money they do not really have thereby gaining advantage over clubs that are more circumspect. But surely, our only offence is failure – and administration and relegation are punishment enough. Businesses invest in order to expand; that is the nature of the beast. Many fail, but others succeed and are rewarded. If our investment in players had led to promotion to the Premiership the rewards would have been colossal but we would still have committed the offence for which we are now being punished. Therefore, if the league is to be consistent and fair, they should send in their forensic accountants to look at the books of the clubs that have GAINED promotion to see if THEY used money they could not really afford - and dock them 10 points if they decide that they have. Apologies for wasting your time if this argument has already been made.
mikejenkins Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 The 10 point penalty IS unfair and should be contested. As I understand it, the penalty is there to discourage clubs from ‘buying’ promotion with money they do not really have thereby gaining advantage over clubs that are more circumspect. I think that we may have done exactly that in the playoff season.
Rational Rich Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 I think yesterday's result reduces the likelihood of a protracted appeal. The difference in value between a club in League 1 and a club in League 1 with -10 points will be a lot less than the difference in value between a club in the CCC and a club in league 1, IMHO. Still think an initial appeal is essential, as the league's reasoning was nonsense.
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 I think that we may have done exactly that in the playoff season. We have also spent a lot of money on the academy which has brought through several home-grown British players.
sadoldgit Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 Finnish outside the dropzone this season and we lose the 10 points this season. Finnish in the drop zone this season and we lose the 10 points next season. So we were screwed either way? Seems a bit off. If the "offence" was commited now surely the points should be docked now? B*astards!
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 So we were screwed either way? Seems a bit off. If the "offence" was commited now surely the points should be docked now? B*astards! This was agreed by all the clubs so it's a bit rich to complain about it now. That's why there's a cut-off date in March.
Rational Rich Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 This was agreed by all the clubs so it's a bit rich to complain about it now. That's why there's a cut-off date in March. It was also agreed that only the CLub (which according to the rules (and not the FL's current imaginative extension of them) is SFC Limited) going into insolvency proceedings would result in a points penalty. Seems with the Football League that rules decided by the clubs are only to be abided by when they get them to where they want to be.
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 It was also agreed that only the CLub (which according to the rules (and not the FL's current imaginative extension of them) is SFC Limited) going into insolvency proceedings would result in a points penalty. Seems with the Football League that rules decided by the clubs are only to be abided by when they get them to where they want to be. I agree. I was only referring to the way that the sanction is applied. There is another part to the rules that allows the League to apply any sanction that they see fit, for any breach that they might dream up.
SFC Forever Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 Quote: Originally Posted by SW11_Saint Have any other club had this type of clause in their 10 point deduction? We all knew that we would have the deduction for going into administration. We even knew about the deadline so Lowe could and should have made sure we did the deed before the deadline. His blaming the bank is just a copout and I believe most people know it.
SFC Forever Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 To be fair to the league the rule was in place for any club that went into administration and not just us.
Victor Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 I think that we may have done exactly that in the playoff season. But my point is that we are being punished for doing it and FAILING. Why should the league not investigate the clubs that have done it and SUCCEEDED? Those clubs have committed the same offence but have reaped huge rewards with promotion to the Premiership i.e. they have done exactly the thing that the rule is intended to discourage, but have got away with it and profited by it. Surely, theirs is the greater sin.
yorkie Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 I believe deep down the -10-points will not apply come August 2009! Don't ask me why but I think we have a get out clause hidden in the agenda! We'll walk this league!
FMPR Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 I believe deep down the -10-points will not apply come August 2009! Don't ask me why but I think we have a get out clause hidden in the agenda! We'll walk this league! I dont and I think you will be lucky if its only minus 10 as you still have to survive the CVA deduction
trousers Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 Wacky theory alert....(apologies if this has already been suggested by someone as equally bereft of reality as oneself... ) Let's say that the Football League, having 'forensically examined' our accounts, concluded that they (the Football League) didn't have a leg to stand on legally.... However, they decided that they would dock the points anyway so that, in the event of a successful appeal by SFC, they could turn around to the other miffed clubs and say: "well, at least we tried". If they had simply decided not to dock us any points they would have come under all sorts of fire from various quarters. So, it's a "win win" for them to go for the penalty option regardless of the outcome.... Perhaps?
dubai_phil Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 I dont and I think you will be lucky if its only minus 10 as you still have to survive the CVA deduction CVA only applies in a voluntary administration. Keep up that was explained to us weeks ago
Rational Rich Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 JCVA only applies in a voluntary administration. Keep up that was explained to us weeks ago Phil, there's no such thing as voluntary admin. Just admin. CVA is another form of insolvency proceedings which can be used as an exit from an admin. However, if SFC stay out of admin (whatever the league say, the fact is SFC isn't in admin - it's like being pregnant, you either are or you're not) there will be no need for a CVA so the league shouldn't be able to deduct points. Though that hasn't stopped them so far...
Flyer Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 CVA only applies in a voluntary administration. Keep up that was explained to us weeks ago It does apply and if any money is owed to the tax man, a further 17 points will be taken off next season.
dubai_phil Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 J Phil, there's no such thing as voluntary admin. Just admin. CVA is another form of insolvency proceedings which can be used as an exit from an admin. However, if SFC stay out of admin (whatever the league say, the fact is SFC isn't in admin - it's like being pregnant, you either are or you're not) there will be no need for a CVA so the league shouldn't be able to deduct points. Though that hasn't stopped them so far... OK so i was pretty much right then... shouldn't be a need for a CVA Couldn't find the original thread but knew we should be ok if the buyers pay off HMRC and get an agreement with Barclays & Aviva & FL. Cannot see a local supplier wanting to not agree some sort of deal one way or the other
Rational Rich Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 OK so i was pretty much right then... shouldn't be a need for a CVA Couldn't find the original thread but knew we should be ok if the buyers pay off HMRC and get an agreement with Barclays & Aviva & FL. Cannot see a local supplier wanting to not agree some sort of deal one way or the other Yeah pretty much. Unfortunately the league seem to be a law unto themselves.
um pahars Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 OK so i was pretty much right then... shouldn't be a need for a CVA Couldn't find the original thread but knew we should be ok if the buyers pay off HMRC and get an agreement with Barclays & Aviva & FL. Cannot see a local supplier wanting to not agree some sort of deal one way or the other SLH PLC will need to sort out a CVA at some point (won't they???). And as the League have already declared that SFC Ltd and the PLC are one and the same, and that the other provisions of their insolvency policy apply, then any fall out from the PLC's CVA will impact on the football club. If we don't get the CVA approved, then just as we got -10 for administration, we will be getting a further -15 as a result of that..
SFC Forever Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 So instead of becoming League 1 champions next season we wait a year.
Windy Miller Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 If we wait a year we'll be League 2 champions
ITKSaint Posted 26 April, 2009 Posted 26 April, 2009 If we wait a year we'll be League 2 champions LOL. We will walk that League!!
offix Posted 27 April, 2009 Posted 27 April, 2009 If we wait a year we'll be League 2 champions We'll get exiting opponents like Dag & Red, and Grimsby! Oh no wait: They will by then be in the league above us.
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