Club could fold next week

[John D]

if we are so close to the end, the 10 points deduction is rapidly becoming irelevant. So wouldn't we put the football club into administration, and, worst case scenario, not pay the wages. Ok we would get the mother of all points deductions and certain relegation to L2, but even that is better than liquidation and the possibility of starting out at the bottom of the pyramid, possibly playing on the common.

 

Agreed - if it is that bad why hasn't the administrator confirmed this and stated exactly what is needed, why it is needed, when by and what for as taking a 10 point penalty over liquidation is a no brainer. Only he knows the real facts so he should come out and spell it out

 

Saturday is the last chance to really raise some funds so why not make a statement now.

 

Waters are further muddied when you read the Guardian article which sounded full of promise.

[manji]

Lol, come on, saying in 1999 that saints will go into administration at

some future point shows little more than a very negative disposition. Unless he said it would happen in 2009, in which case he's a genius. But I find it hard to believe anyone could have predicted the following 10 years when we had 4 or 5 good years after that, and then 4 or 5 horrific years. I disliked many for mistakes along the way, but I wasn't worried until we started spending big on average players in the CCC when we were letting good players leave for free.

He also predicted the imminent downfall of capitalism...........................

[70's Mike]

He also predicted the imminent downfall of capitalism...........................

 

Sort of happening with bank system collapse, propped up by state ?

[SO16_Saint]

So where is all this crap about the club folding before the end of the season coming from them ? We are being told if not enough tickets are sold for Burnley we are going under.

 

We can hardly sell STs, can we ?

 

Why do you think there was no March Madness this year ?

 

Its been a WHOLE SEASON of 'king madness!!

[dubai_phil]

If our situation is a serious as the club folding next week, aren't the fantastic fund raising days going to come too late in May? i think we need to be told a figure to keep us afloat otherwise we are all just rowing in the dark!

 

OK let's try and guess.

In the year end 30th June 2007 our operating COSTS were 27.2 MILLION, 21.5 of that was "cost of sales"

Our revenue was 23.2 million

 

Now we actually made a profit that year because of player sales

 

fast forward to this year

 

Let's guess Lowe made a massive and miraculous (in business terms) 40% cut in costs it comes down to 16mil

 

So each month of the year our costs are guessed at 1.33 mil

 

Now we know clearly that on the day administrators walked in we had zero money because Barclays bounced cheques, but by end of May we will have had 3 home games.

 

Somebody on here will know exactly how many ST holders we have but let us guess 12,000 so we had about 14,000 discounted tickets at the games at say 17.50 each (kids for quid and stuff as well as the discount price for Charlton & buy shop stuff) makes it 735k received in revenue from tickets

 

In the 2008 numbers we got around 8mil for Broadcasting which is 660k a month.

 

So with lumpy guessing maths we have income of 1.395mil and costs of 1.3 mil.

 

The problem is of course that this is the last chance to earn revenue and then whoosh.

 

But then we see that the latest guesses on ticket sales from the Burnley thread is 17,000 - ouch - that means the income figure drops down to around 90k for Burnley game and a total income of around 580k against costs of 1.3mil

 

So even allowing the total guesses needed on numbers the club will not have earned enough cash in the time of admin to pay the costs of running the cub. That is insolvency, that is illegal and they would not be able to even book a coach to travel to Notts Forest.

 

And of course, all indications are that Fry has not yet received a formal bid for the club. Even if he HAD, it would take some days for the cash to reach the bank account, we would be gone before we could get bought even IF it was Paul Allen....

 

Numbers ain't exact, but rocket science it isn't anything under 25,000 on Saturday and we are in deep sh1t

[Master Bates]

Listened to Richard Chorley on Radio Hampshire on the way home and I'm sure he said that unless the club received a major cash injection it could fold by this time next week. Is that correct?

 

In todays echo too.

[Chez]

I simply don't see how anything can be done in such a short time frame.

 

Fans and people in the city simply are NOT going to give £100,000-£500,000 simply to pay the wages of the footballers at the club. As much as I love the club I just can't bring myself to hand over my hard earned cash to pay Rudi ****ing lazy Skacel and his like.

 

The players have earned thouands (millions in some cases). I don't care how big their mortgages might be they CAN afford to go without and that is my only solution to this problem. Either they all take a wage holiday or the club closes and then they don't get paid until another club picks them up anyway.

[OldNick]

Sweansea are playing hardball about Dyer, as i would expect. None of our younger players will be that good the top teams will be breaking the necks to get and so that avenue is gone.A firesale of Jacksons farm is the easiest way. How much is it worth and how big a piece of land is it.Does anybody know on here?

ps where are those whoi said administration was a good thing?

[Faz]

The Club shopuld charge each of the 31 interested parties £20k. A sort of ante to stay in the game. £620k revenue, or it sorts the wheat from the chaff.

[DT]

The Club shopuld charge each of the 31 interested parties £20k. A sort of ante to stay in the game. £620k revenue, or it sorts the wheat from the chaff.

Nice idea but actually if fear that that would probably recoup about £0 and we'd have no interested parties.

[DT]

Sweansea are playing hardball about Dyer, as i would expect. None of our younger players will be that good the top teams will be breaking the necks to get and so that avenue is gone.A firesale of Jacksons farm is the easiest way. How much is it worth and how big a piece of land is it.Does anybody know on here?

ps where are those whoi said administration was a good thing?

whatever happened to the council buying the stadium?

[OldNick]

whatever happened to the council buying the stadium?

I think it is the wage bill that is as crippling at present

[Charlie Wayman]

Maybe Crouch has told Fry that HE will buy Saints FC after the winding-up but not the other assets of SLH. That would be good in one sense but bad from the point of view of being like Brighton were, homeless. It would also by-pass the debt problems of SLH.

 

A temporary ground on The Common rented from the Council with scaffolding stands etc. is obviously one clear possibility but whether that could be done in time for next season is questionable, as planning consent and the like would need to be obtained and for sure our chaps in blue would want limited access of say 5000. They have plenty of big events up there so the capability to do it exists somewhere in the City.

 

At least this would buy time to get a resolution on the future ownership and use of the stadium which I still believe will come down to Tesco or ASDA wishing to expand down there.

[OldNick]

Maybe Crouch has told Fry that HE will buy Saints FC after the winding-up but not the other assets of SLH. That would be good in one sense but bad from the point of view of being like Brighton were, homeless. It would also by-pass the debt problems of SLH.

 

A temporary ground on The Common rented from the Council with scaffolding stands etc. is obviously one clear possibility but whether that could be done in time for next season is questionable, as planning consent and the like would need to be obtained and for sure our chaps in blue would want limited access of say 5000. They have plenty of big events up there so the capability to do it exists somewhere in the City.

 

At least this would buy time to get a resolution on the future ownership and use of the stadium which I still believe will come down to Tesco or ASDA wishing to expand down there.

Tesco and Asda!! Is there a massive population in that area to need a massive supermarket? There are loads of warehouses in the main isnt there?

[yorkiesaint]

I'm sure crouch wouldn't have told chorley anything he didn't wish to become public knowledge.

[Wade Garrett]

Sweansea are playing hardball about Dyer, as i would expect. None of our younger players will be that good the top teams will be breaking the necks to get and so that avenue is gone.A firesale of Jacksons farm is the easiest way. How much is it worth and how big a piece of land is it.Does anybody know on here?

ps where are those whoi said administration was a good thing?

 

 

Don't really understand your point there. Administration is a result of Barclays bouncing cheques. It wasn't really a choice anyone made, rather it was forced upon us, because under Rupert's sharp leadership we don't have a pot to **** in.

 

I don't think any supporter would think being skint is a good thing, to be honest.

[Wade Garrett]

Maybe Crouch has told Fry that HE will buy Saints FC after the winding-up but not the other assets of SLH. That would be good in one sense but bad from the point of view of being like Brighton were, homeless. It would also by-pass the debt problems of SLH.

 

A temporary ground on The Common rented from the Council with scaffolding stands etc. is obviously one clear possibility but whether that could be done in time for next season is questionable, as planning consent and the like would need to be obtained and for sure our chaps in blue would want limited access of say 5000. They have plenty of big events up there so the capability to do it exists somewhere in the City.

 

At least this would buy time to get a resolution on the future ownership and use of the stadium which I still believe will come down to Tesco or ASDA wishing to expand down there.

 

You are joking aren't you?

[Flyer]

Southampton Football Club continues to trade - otherwise you couldn't buy tickets for the Burnley game.

 

Because theres a lot of income for that, theres hardly income from then until the 1st home game of next season but the outgoings remain the same, ie wages and mortgage.

[SaintRobbie]

Listened to Richard Chorley on Radio Hampshire on the way home and I'm sure he said that unless the club received a major cash injection it could fold by this time next week. Is that correct?

 

That is correct but he's forgetting the 35 plus bidders who are in the pot for the club.

[DT]

Here's a left field thought. We're really close to a deal and will announce it just before the game against Burnley, and in time to get more people buying tickets and push for the unlikely home win. Hence the silence. And then I woke up.

[Stirchleysaint]

That is correct but he's forgetting the 35 plus bidders who are in the pot for the club.

They're not bidders, merely expressions of interest unfortunately.

[bridge too far]

Here's another cynical view.

 

Maybe this IS disinformation to try to gee up the serious bidders?

 

I remember the SISU interest. At the time, and still, I thought their interest in us was just a red herring to try to get Coventry to bite.

 

People with money sometimes play funny games.

 

[Torres]

Alpine is wrong.

 

Again.

 

Nope. Not wrong..

 

Yes, wrong.

 

Trading when insolvent is very, very illegal.

 

True, but SFC Ltd is not currently insolvent.

[Torres]

That is correct but he's forgetting the 35 plus bidders who are in the pot for the club.

 

They're not bidders, merely expressions of interest unfortunately.

 

Exactly. It would take a single phone call from any one of us to make that into 36.

[trousers]

Here's another cynical view.

 

Maybe this IS disinformation to try to gee up the serious bidders?

 

I remember the SISU interest. At the time, and still, I thought their interest in us was just a red herring to try to get Coventry to bite.

 

People with money sometimes play funny games.

 

 

Conspiracy theorists of the world unite!

 

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if your theory, Agent Bridge, isn't bang on the money.

[Beer Engine]

The club could fold - like any other business.

 

But my own guess is that SFC is more like a Leeds than a Boston or Bradford PA. If you can be arsed to read the history of Leeds on Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_United_Football_Club_Limited

 

or look at the court cases that followed their 15 point deduction or indeed the case concerning MK Dons, you will get some idea of the complexity of the issues involved.

 

We're talking a very toxic mix of the League's Articles of Association, the huge grey area of the League's discretion in relation to its own Insolvency Policy, the FA's role as supervisor of the Football League, the rules governing Administration of companies, wrongful trading, the relationship between SLH plc and SFC Lmited, the relationship between a football club (whatever that is) and the legal entity that owns it, a phenomenal loan secured against SMS and a shed-load of overdraft that Barclays will be very lucky to see a penny of ... not to mention the pressing issue of how to fund "the club" (whatever that is) and the costs of the administration whilst all these issues are sorted out ... oh, not forgetting 1 and possibly 2 relegations ... or worse ...

 

Bates was able to transfer the assets of the old Leeds United company to his new company on favourable commercial terms without suffering an immediate second relegation (to CC League 2) ultimately because HMRC, the Football League and other bidders ran out of tarmac.

 

The Football League clearly wanted Leeds to survive and exercised its considerable discretion to penalise Leeds 2007 relatively leniently .. having wanted to believe Bates' flimsy back of a fag-packet assurances about partially compensating unsecured creditors if Leeds got back to the Premiership.

 

If there is a figure as committed and as well backed as Bates looking to buy the assets of Southampton Football Club (whatever that is) cheaply from SLH plc and/or SFC Ltd then we are probably entering the "chicken" phase of a game of brinkmanship involving Norwich Union, Barclays, HMRC and other creditors, the prospective new owner and the Football League that will probably end up with us starting next season either in League 2 or in League 1 with a further points deduction.

 

If this game goes on for more than a few days then presumably SFC Limited itself will go into administration and a little more time may be bought to stave off creditors. This protection does not, however, provide funds to enable the "club" to keep trading (at a loss) in the interim ... and it was this imperative, I think, that ultimately saved Leeds .. ironically.. because Bates realised that time was on his side ... the longer matters went unresolved, the more chance there was of the club folding completely ... so in the end it was Bates or nothing ... and all objectors and competitors realised further resistance was futile ...

 

Bates went nuclear and won ...

 

It is interesting to note that Leeds United 2007 Limited, having sloughed off the £30 million or so debts of the old Leeds company, made a profit of £1 million in its first year in League 1 ....

 

Obviously, we live in a very different financial climate from 2 years ago but .. fingers crossed ..

 

COYR

[MarkSFC]

You're wrong on quite a few levels, not least that no one would ever pay the full amount of what is owed Aviva (and your bit about the value of SMS in the accounts is a red herring). Happy to explain ore later, but off to work in a mo.

 

 

 

I of course may be very wide of the mark, but IMHO Crouch' motives here are not financial. He may be misguided, he may be spot on, or whatever, but IMHO he's doing what he thinks is right to save the Club from oblivion. I honestly don't think him personally making a few £££'s comes anywhere near the equation.

 

Ha, fair enough! Please explain....

 

Thanks!!

[onthemarch]

would be tempted to go if more players for example took a pay cut

i am not going to fork out hard earned money to line their pockets which is where most the gate receipts go

 

if we fold at least we can be rebron as a fans club

[Junior Mullet]

and with what are we going to pay the salaries in may,june and july?

 

The club's buyers will have to pay for that. Presumably from sale of season tickets and from their own funds.

[Junior Mullet]

Sweansea are playing hardball about Dyer, as i would expect. None of our younger players will be that good the top teams will be breaking the necks to get and so that avenue is gone.A firesale of Jacksons farm is the easiest way. How much is it worth and how big a piece of land is it.Does anybody know on here?

ps where are those whoi said administration was a good thing?

 

I'm one of them right here Nick. I still maintain that admin was the best way to rid the club of it's daft PLC holding company and the likes of Lowe.

 

In time this will prove to be a major turning point in the fortune of SFC. It will take time. Nick, you are few years' too premature with your "I told you so" type comments.

 

I would take this every time over watching the club slowly die under Lowe and cronies' incompetance.

[OldNick]

I'm one of them right here Nick. I still maintain that admin was the best way to rid the club of it's daft PLC holding company and the likes of Lowe.

 

In time this will prove to be a major turning point in the fortune of SFC. It will take time. Nick, you are few years' too premature with your "I told you so" type comments.

 

I would take this every time over watching the club slowly die under Lowe and cronies' incompetance.

Not told you so, it was a case of trying to point out that administration was not likely to be the cake walk some thought.

As for getting rid of the PLC and RL it is a bit extreme. it is like setting fire to your house without insurance as you didnt like the colour of the wallpaper.

Saints means a lot to us all on here and to see it perhaps go for good is not what i want and that is why i try and point out the pitfalls of change. You may be right and it may be a new start with a new figurehead.If so i hope they hurry up as time waits for nobody

[The9]

Here's another cynical view.

 

Maybe this IS disinformation to try to gee up the serious bidders?

 

I remember the SISU interest. At the time, and still, I thought their interest in us was just a red herring to try to get Coventry to bite.

 

People with money sometimes play funny games.

 

 

If I wanted something which was loosely based on the premise that "capitalism is bad" yelled from the rooftops, I'd probably ring Chorley too.

[eelpie]

I tell you what Manji he talks more sense than you! He has been proven right, he told me in the Maple Leaf club back in about 1999 that this day would come, and I have to admit that I doubted him at the time.

 

He said on the radio tonight that the PLC was was designed to stop people coming in and taking over ( I think he was referring to the fragmented shareholdings ) The way that the shares were spread out made it difficult for people to come in and oust him and Askham etc, thus protecting their little empire!

 

He wants the Saints fans to WAKE UP and realise that ......

THIS IS FOR REAL!!!....................................SOUTHAMPTON FOOTBALL CLUB IS DAYS AWAY FROM EXTINCTION!!! It sounds as if there is NO DEAL IMMINENT! The club may not be around to play the Forest game on May 3rd!!!

 

He wants all supporters and businesses in Southampton to give what they can to the SOS appeal so that a last ditch bid by the supporters groups can be made to save the club.

Is the SOS appeal to enable the club to fulfill it's fixtures over the next two weeks, or for the longer term.

[Junior Mullet]

Not told you so, it was a case of trying to point out that administration was not likely to be the cake walk some thought.

As for getting rid of the PLC and RL it is a bit extreme. it is like setting fire to your house without insurance as you didnt like the colour of the wallpaper.

Saints means a lot to us all on here and to see it perhaps go for good is not what i want and that is why i try and point out the pitfalls of change. You may be right and it may be a new start with a new figurehead.If so i hope they hurry up as time waits for nobody

 

I don't recall anyone saying admin would be a cakewalk. People like myself were saying it was a necessary evil and that we would have to endure short-term pain for long-term gain.

 

I'm afraid your analogy simply isnt correct. Lowe and cronies were not genuinely interested in selling their shares for a realistic price and thus we could not attract investment. We had to rid Lowe and cronies and we had to rid ourselves of the PLC structure in order to attract investment and present a sensible business model for running a football club in this day and age. We would not have gotten rid of those two things without admin. It was indeed the necessary evil and Barclays knew that well and were prepared to make us resort to that once they had lost faith in Rupert and his business plan.

 

I expect you and I are both frustrrated by the present situation and would like things to move on quickly but that is unrealistic. These things will take time.

 

I will of course be wrong and will admit that if the club is not bought and we are wond up. I pray to god that doesnt happen, as I'm sure you do too. The only difference between us now Nick is that I am optimistic whereas you are perhaps more sceptical or impatient.

 

Onwards and up.

[trousers]

As for getting rid of the PLC and RL it is a bit extreme. it is like setting fire to your house without insurance as you didnt like the colour of the wallpaper.

 

Wrong analogy IMO.

 

Try the one where you amputate a leg to try and save someone's life. It doesn't always work but the patient would have died if you did nothing anyway.

[OldNick]

Wrong analogy IMO.

 

Try the one where you amputate a leg to try and save someone's life. It doesn't always work but the patient would have died if you did nothing anyway.

or you get a complete amateur to amputate the leg when the consultant was there waiting.

The erroronous belief that RL etc didnt wish to sell will come out in time. Up the the last moments before going into admin we had a buyer who was frantically trying to get the funds together.The administrator even was put back until late at night to try and give time for it to get in place in time.

[bridge too far]

or you get a complete amateur to amputate the leg when the consultant was there waiting.

The erroronous belief that RL etc didnt wish to sell will come out in time. Up the the last moments before going into admin we had a buyer who was frantically trying to get the funds together.The administrator even was put back until late at night to try and give time for it to get in place in time.

 

Is that buyer still in the frame, do you know?

[St_Tel49]

Don't really understand your point there. Administration is a result of Barclays bouncing cheques. It wasn't really a choice anyone made, rather it was forced upon us, because under Rupert's sharp leadership we don't have a pot to **** in.

 

I don't think any supporter would think being skint is a good thing, to be honest.

You had people like Stanley, St Robbie and Alps on here virtually begging for administration purely so they could rid of Lowe. Sadly there seems to be a very real risk that it will get rid of the club as well unless something happens PDQ.

[rpb]

You had people like Stanley, St Robbie and Alps on here virtually begging for administration purely so they could rid of Lowe. Sadly there seems to be a very real risk that it will get rid of the club as well unless something happens PDQ.

 

They still seem to be going on about Lowe even though he's gone!

[St_Tel49]

I'm one of them right here Nick. I still maintain that admin was the best way to rid the club of it's daft PLC holding company and the likes of Lowe.

 

In time this will prove to be a major turning point in the fortune of SFC. It will take time. Nick, you are few years' too premature with your "I told you so" type comments.

 

I would take this every time over watching the club slowly die under Lowe and cronies' incompetance.

I really, really hope that you are right JM but at this second in time I don't have much faith that you are.

[trousers]

The erroronous belief that RL etc didnt wish to sell will come out in time. Up the the last moments before going into admin we had a buyer who was frantically trying to get the funds together

 

If he was close, what stopped him pulling the funds together in the end?

 

Was it a small piece of the jigsaw that was missing or was the jigsaw in 1000s of jumbled pieces on the floor with a torn lid? (hmm....not a bad analogy by my standards )

 

And, if it was the former (one small piece of the jigsaw) what stopped him completely the deal shortly after administration if it was that close beforehand ?

 

And.....Is he still "frantic" as we speak?

Edited 22 April, 2009 by trousers

[trousers]

You had people like Stanley, St Robbie and Alps on here virtually begging for administration purely so they could rid of Lowe. Sadly there seems to be a very real risk that it will get rid of the club as well unless something happens PDQ.

 

Devils advocate alert....

 

What did the alternative path look like?

[Third Division South Days]

I dont understand why all comments about the current financial dire straits of SFC are coming from the likes of LC,LM and RC. The administrator may not feel able to comment as his responsibility is the PLC but the football club does have two full time directors who to my knowledge have not uttered a word on any issue whatsoever.

[Singapore Saint]

On a less serious note, If the club is going to fold next week does that mean

the Japanese origami business consortium will betaking over

 

Just a thought..............................

 

or the poker players consortium??

[OldNick]

Is that buyer still in the frame, do you know?

No idea about that.I have heard nothing to give me any hope of anything happening since administration. People are unusually quiet,but not even a nod or a wink, it maybe a good thing but it unnerves me.

Especially as LC etc are sounding more and more desperate.

[SaintDonkey]

Wrong analogy IMO.

 

Try the one where you amputate a leg to try and save someone's life. It doesn't always work but the patient would have died if you did nothing anyway.

 

Hmmm more like trying to remove a brain tumour that's causing seizures.

 

Don't remove it and there's a chance that the patient will die, but will probably live albeit with reduced quality of life. Do remove it and there's a very good chance that the patient will die, but if he survives the operation quality of life should improve.

 

When it comes down to it it's all about quality of life. I don't know a Saints fan who didn't want Lowe gone from the club. But after the operation to remove him Saints are only surviving on life support and there's every chance someone's going to pull the plug because we can't pay the hospital bills.

 

Personally I find the vegetable in a wheelchair option of a 'fans club' starting out in the Wessex leagues unappealing. So can we just all pull together and put our money where it's needed to save this club of ours!

Edited 22 April, 2009 by SaintDonkey
typoo

[Gingeletiss]

No idea about that.I have heard nothing to give me any hope of anything happening since administration. People are unusually quiet,but not even a nod or a wink, it maybe a good thing but it unnerves me.

Especially as LC etc are sounding more and more desperate.

 

Like you're ITK..........lol.

 

Also, it is annoying, that you, and others, keep saying we are in administration...............WE ARE NOT......hear me that time ffs.

[ottery st mary]

or you get a complete amateur to amputate the leg when the consultant was there waiting.

The erroronous belief that RL etc didnt wish to sell will come out in time. Up the the last moments before going into admin we had a buyer who was frantically trying to get the funds together.The administrator even was put back until late at night to try and give time for it to get in place in time.

 

nick you are a one....A right little tease..So many contacts in the dressing room all season and now someone so close to Rupes.....I want you to write a book one day... Paul Allen.... The buyer who dropped out at the last minute. Keep all the snippets coming mate.:cool:

 

COYRs

[OldNick]

Like you're ITK..........lol.

 

Also, it is annoying, that you, and others, keep saying we are in administration...............WE ARE NOT......hear me that time ffs.

Of course we are not, Lol.

Imagine GM in administration Vauxhall would be in great health. Keep your head in the sand.

LC LM and al the others dont know anything either you are amusing , perhaps you'd better do it in bigger letters so they can see it as well

[Gingeletiss]

Of course we are not, Lol.

Imagine GM in administration Vauxhall would be in great health. Keep your head in the sand.

LC LM and al the others dont know anything either you are amusing , perhaps you'd better do it in bigger letters so they can see it as well

 

All last week, we had thread after thread, saying we should not be docked points, as it was SLH that had gone into administration....'please nice football league, don't take points off us'.

 

Now it seems, we are in fact in administration, because dear old ITK nickh, self proclaimed cheerleader, in the absence of 19flashbearcanteen says so. Perhaps you should make the football league aware of our position, they could save the cost of the forensic accountant.