January Transfer Window

[Verbal Kint]

You are in dreamland, we tried spinning the roulette wheel and lost.The bank told LC that they'd only support the club if we sell all we could.

 

I know for a fact that statement is incorrect. The bank are not stupid. The only way this company makes any money whatsoever is if we are in the prem with the tv money that comes. We will never get there if we carry on selling off our best players. I'm not saying we go out and spend money we haven't got. I am saying we tell the bank we have got rid of god knows how many players off the wage bill and it would now be completely counter productive to sell off any more first teamers.

[saintwarwick]

Indeed.

 

I remember Derby at home during the play-off season.

 

Highest attendance of the season, chance to break into the top3 and to set the club record for unbeaten run.

 

We put in one of the most pathetic performances I have ever seen in red-and-white stripes. Suffice to say, the attendances went into reverse.

 

I think you was at the wrong game, we should of been 4-0 up at half time with Saganowski robbed of a hat trick. It was Baird that gave them the three points when he should of played the ball rather than waving his hands for no apparent reason.

[buctootim]

Now this is something i have said before but it looks like i will have to say again a bit more clearly:

 

THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS MESS IS TO GET BACK TO THE PREMIERSHIP. TO DO THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR BEST PLAYERS.

 

Salz and Crouch had no problem gaining the support of the bank on this premise. Rupert does not have the brains or the negotiating power to do the same. Shame on him for that.

 

I applaud the use of our youngsters and the way we want to play football. But we will sell them all off until we are left with nothing, accept a stadium we can't afford with a squad of players worth **** all. And then we are truely screwed.

 

Honestly it is really, really simple. I mean REALLY simple: There was some money. It got spent in the past three years. Now there is none. **** or bust has been tried - which is why we are now bust.

 

I know you dont think its fair were not in the prem but the only way we are going to get there is by developing a lot of good young players and selling a few to pay the bills.

Edited 25 August, 2008 by buctootim

[OldNick]

I know for a fact that statement is incorrect. The bank are not stupid. The only way this company makes any money whatsoever is if we are in the prem with the tv money that comes. We will never get there if we carry on selling off our best players. I'm not saying we go out and spend money we haven't got. I am saying we tell the bank we have got rid of god knows how many players off the wage bill and it would now be completely counter productive to sell off any more first teamers.

Well a collegue was at a meal with LC and another director and it came from the horses mouth.That was just after LC stated we the bank would support us.

And the bank also know that there are 10-15 clubs who also will be in the running for promotion and so wont risk anymore unless it is backed by prudent financial decisions.

[Gorgiesaint]

Now this is something i have said before but it looks like i will have to say again a bit more clearly:

 

THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS MESS IS TO GET BACK TO THE PREMIERSHIP. TO DO THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR BEST PLAYERS.

 

Salz and Crouch had no problem gaining the support of the bank on this premise. Rupert does not have the brains or the negotiating power to do the same. Shame on him for that.

 

I applaud the use of our youngsters and the way we want to play football. But we will sell them all off until we are left with nothing, accept a stadium we can't afford with a squad of players worth **** all. And then we are truely screwed.

 

I assume by the mess - you mean our financial position.

 

There are 2 options - 1)get promoted, which we've tried risking everything on that & lost before hence why we're up a f***ing creek now, or 2)get the club to run as a viable CCC team, paying players accordingly and not spending more than we can afford - ie the way we are now trying to go.

 

We've already tried option 1 - Crouch should have realised that as we didn't get promotion, we couldn't continue to spend money we didn't have & cut our costs - he didn't & thats why we're now paying the price.

 

At least Lowe is trying to get to a position where the books balance, yes we may have to accept the sale of a few players along the way but ffs we've always been a selling club. At least when the books balance, we will be in a position where we can try & defend against some of the sales.

[alpine_saint]

I think you was at the wrong game, we should of been 4-0 up at half time with Saganowski robbed of a hat trick. It was Baird that gave them the three points when he should of played the ball rather than waving his hands for no apparent reason.

 

What in God's name does this mean ? If we deserved to be 4-0 up, we would have been.

 

Billy Davies brought on Shaun Teale and it was one way traffic after that, because our manager didnt have a clue how to counter the tactical change.

 

We were woeful.

[Pongo]

Pongo? are you in the army? you must be as you seem thick as ****

 

going into admin will ruin this club even more and could even put lowe into a position to buy the club out right...

 

full of bright ideas this one people....

 

 

[OldNick]

What in God's name does this mean ? If we deserved to be 4-0 up, we would have been.

 

Billy Davies brought on Shaun Teale and it was one way traffic after that, because our manager didnt have a clue how to counter the tactical change.

 

We were woeful.

Saga and Rasiak missed sitters and we should have scored.You are right Teale did change the game , but sometimes it is hard to dictate or counteract players who are in a purple patch.

I remeber Solano doing the same in the relegation season v Villa

[wightman35]

lowe wont sell the player through fecking choice....we went for the promotion push with burley and for what ever reason it never payed off...now we have to pay the price for that...simple sad economics...not some dastardly scheme by evil lowe...

 

should the fans come back for what ever reason then we probably wont have to sell as many players....

 

If the team put a winning run on then fans will be back...pretty much the trend at most football club in the country

 

Very true TDD. Another of your very perceptive posts getting to the core of the situation.

[saintwarwick]

What in God's name does this mean ? If we deserved to be 4-0 up, we would have been.

 

Billy Davies brought on Shaun Teale and it was one way traffic after that, because our manager didnt have a clue how to counter the tactical change.

 

We were woeful.

 

What an idiotic statement, if it wasn't for their goalie making some blinding saves, saves on a normal day he would not have made, we would have had a deserved lead. Just because they did not go in does not mean we did not deserve to. The fact you posted that 'we put in one of the most pathetic performances you have ever seen in red and white stripes' shows your complete lack of knowledge of the game.

[alpine_saint]

What an idiotic statement, if it wasn't for their goalie making some blinding saves, saves on a normal day he would not have made, we would have had a deserved lead. Just because they did not go in does not mean we did not deserve to. The fact you posted that 'we put in one of the most pathetic performances you have ever seen in red and white stripes' shows your complete lack of knowledge of the game.

 

Someone please remind SW that a goal only counts IF the ball crosses the line.........

[s0108787]

Someone please remind SW that a goal only counts IF the ball crosses the line.........

 

That is a fact, but we all know you don't always get what you deserve...

[alpine_saint]

That is a fact, but we all know you don't always get what you deserve...

 

Sorry, I've never bought that.

 

Fact of the matter, we were not robbed by a poor refereeing decision.

 

Derby scored a fair goal.

 

We couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo.

 

Derby changed things about and got the upper hand.

 

We didnt have a clue how to respond.

 

Ergo, Derby deserved to win.

[StAndy1970]

Assuming some of our youngsters continue to flourish, are the finances getting anywhere near strong enough to fend off the inevitable vulchers

 

Finances might be getting stronger or not as is probably the case but dont forget we have Chairman Low e. He would sell his gran is she would make him money. Leopards dont change their spots!!!

[saintwarwick]

Someone please remind SW that a goal only counts IF the ball crosses the line.........

 

I never mentioned about us scoring a goal but more to do with we should of been four up at half time, I always knew you had difficulty in reading.

[Thedelldays]

I never mentioned about us scoring a goal but more to do with we should of been four up at half time, I always knew you had difficulty in reading.

to be fair...there was alot of "we should have been" that year....best not to think about it or you/I may have a little cry at what a chance we had in going up...

[saintwarwick]

Someone please remind SW that a goal only counts IF the ball crosses the line.........

 

Try telling that to Pedro Mendes.

[Andy_Porter]

I honestly think there are at least about 2k fans who will not go whilst Lowe is there. Maybe more. Now maybe if the side starts winning regularly those fans will be replaced. But if not, and i don't see why we should expect the side to challenge near the top, how are we going to cover that shortfall in attendance? Lowe will sell a youngster in Jan. Same fans will stay away. Next summer we sell more youngsters. Even more people stay away next season. We sell more youngsters to cover for them.

 

Eventually we will have no money and no players of any value to sell.

 

I don't know a single person who won't be going to SMS this season because of Lowe, I know about 15 people who couldn't be bothered to renew/go to games based on how crap last season was. Lets notforget quite how bad it was, for the first time in 15 years going to see Saints play was becoming a chore.

 

2k is a load of ********, the majority of Saints fans couldn't give a toss who's chairman just so long as we're winning.

[alpine_saint]

I never mentioned about us scoring a goal but more to do with we should of been four up at half time, I always knew you had difficulty in reading.

 

Bravo, you've had the last word.

 

I'll leave you to your playground squabbling...

[Oz]

When there is an offer for a player there are three parties involved, not just a buyer and a seller, so its not just down to how much is offered and how much the selling club is willing to accept. The third party is the most important of the three, and that is the player, together with his agent. Once a player has been unsettled by the knowledge that a lump sum transfer cut, as well as higher pay, is there for the taking, its hard for any club to hold out. If offers do come in, the best defence for the chairman is to be able to offer the player the prospect of a payrise in the near future, but as people have said, that depends on team performance and attendances. It is very unlikely that Lowe would want to sell any established first team players if JP advises him that performance will fall off, unless they can be replaced, but it is not always in the chairman's hands as you can't hold on to someone once he has decided he doesn't want to stay.

 

or in surman's case, he wantsa to stay. he is a local lad!

[stevegrant]

Sorry Panda but some fans have principles regarding Lowe.

And like every other football fan in the country, those principles will go flying out of the window as soon as it looks like we might have a team worthy of decent support again, regardless of who's in the boardroom.

 

After all, I didn't see loads of people boycotting the 2003 FA Cup Final, when Lowe was chairman...

[alpine_saint]

And like every other football fan in the country, those principles will go flying out of the window as soon as it looks like we might have a team worthy of decent support again, regardless of who's in the boardroom.

 

After all, I didn't see loads of people boycotting the 2003 FA Cup Final, when Lowe was chairman...

 

Let's not forget which Chairman started the customer/quality of service mentality at the Dell/SMS, please...

 

Funnily enough, I dont hear Lowe moaning about being hoisted on his own petard. In fairness to the man, he probably knows what needs to be done and the magnitude/difficulty of the task ahead of him.

[stevegrant]

Let's not forget which Chairman started the customer/quality of service mentality at the Dell/SMS, please...

I'm not forgetting it. It started in 1996/7, quite some time before we achieved any sort of "success", so there's been plenty of time for people to decide "I don't like this whole 'customer experience' crap" and abide by their "principles" to not go to games. Apparently it didn't bother them much back then though.

 

Funnily enough, I dont hear Lowe moaning about being hoisted on his own petard. In fairness to the man, he probably knows what needs to be done and the magnitude/difficulty of the task ahead of him.

Agreed, he knows he's in something of a poisoned chalice position anyway, particularly given that he wasn't overly popular the first time he was here. That said, I think the knowledge of being up against it from the start is probably an advantage. For his many faults, one thing Lowe is is fearless, in my opinion, which would stand anyone in good stead for the job that needs doing right now.

[alpine_saint]

I'm not forgetting it. It started in 1996/7, quite some time before we achieved any sort of "success", so there's been plenty of time for people to decide "I don't like this whole 'customer experience' crap" and abide by their "principles" to not go to games. Apparently it didn't bother them much back then though.

 

 

Maybe back then Lowe was working towards the success in a constructive manner, and not milking it as he did post-FA Cup Final ?

 

He got arrogant and complaicent in the season 2003-2004, and started focussing on the PLC results. He believed the success was in large part down to him, not Strachan. Hence his ridiculous sequence of managers for the next 18 months.

[ottery st mary]

Let us hope results continue in our favour and therefore JP is left with the task of moving us up the league and Rupert Lowe and colleagues find other ways of sorting out the finances. If that is the case then, the current playing squad stays whilst hopefully moving on others not required to help in the meantime. Hopefully Rupert will leave the playing side to those who know what they are doing.. Maybe..Maybe he has learnt his lesson..

[Verbal Kint]

I don't know a single person who won't be going to SMS this season because of Lowe, I know about 15 people who couldn't be bothered to renew/go to games based on how crap last season was. Lets notforget quite how bad it was, for the first time in 15 years going to see Saints play was becoming a chore.

 

2k is a load of ********, the majority of Saints fans couldn't give a toss who's chairman just so long as we're winning.

 

And if i told you that out of 20 people i meet up with 10 did not renew because of Lowe plus a family of 6 who i know have given up for the same reason. Just because you don't know anyone don't think that that element isn't out there.

[pedg]

And if i told you that out of 20 people i meet up with 10 did not renew because of Lowe plus a family of 6 who i know have given up for the same reason. Just because you don't know anyone don't think that that element isn't out there.

 

and you can guarantee that Lowe was the ONLY reason they did not renew? With no influence from the level of performances and enjoyment (or lack of) last season?

[Verbal Kint]

and you can guarantee that Lowe was the ONLY reason they did not renew? With no influence from the level of performances and enjoyment (or lack of) last season?

 

It's because of Lowe. The reason we are in this crap division is because of Lowe anyway so i could argue that even performance related reasons are Lowe's fault as well, but that isn't why.

 

Some people think he will take this club further down. They don't want to commit money to the club whilst he is here. Simple as that. There have been a few posters on this site who are doing the same.

[up and away]

I still go just to clarify.

 

But attendances for Brum were low for a reason i'm afraid. 6,000 down on the first game of last season. There is a big section of our fan base who not only dislike Lowe, but are prepared to stay away from SMS while he is in charge and selling our best players. Now people might say "screw them they aren't real fans" but i tend to think it is these fans we need to get back if we are to fend off financial problems. Now maybe some of them will come back if this side is successful. But maybe they won't.

 

What a load of ******. Based upon your theory and everything being stated previously, we should have seen an increase in the gate when Wilde took over. But surprise, surprise, gates dropped.

[Long Shot]

I'm not forgetting it. It started in 1996/7, quite some time before we achieved any sort of "success", so there's been plenty of time for people to decide "I don't like this whole 'customer experience' crap" and abide by their "principles" to not go to games. Apparently it didn't bother them much back then though.

 

 

Agreed, he knows he's in something of a poisoned chalice position anyway, particularly given that he wasn't overly popular the first time he was here. That said, I think the knowledge of being up against it from the start is probably an advantage. For his many faults, one thing Lowe is is fearless, in my opinion, which would stand anyone in good stead for the job that needs doing right now.

 

 

One man's "fearless" is another man's "foolhardy"!

[pedg]

It's because of Lowe. The reason we are in this crap division is because of Lowe anyway so i could argue that even performance related reasons are Lowe's fault as well, but that isn't why.

 

There are a multitude of reasons why we are in this division but I guess it must make it easier for you to just assign all the blame to one person. Deep down I suspect you realise how illogical it is to just have a single scape goat for all the problems the club has had but that you don't want to think about it as it would interfere with your hatred.

[Alucard]

Finances might be getting stronger or not as is probably the case but dont forget we have Chairman Low e. He would sell his gran is she would make him money. Leopards dont change their spots!!!

 

And who do you blame for selling £16.5M worth of players last summer when Lowe wasn't here. Who pocketed that money? Like it or not selling players is something that has to be done to keep the club afloat and the money doesn't go straight to the chairman's bank account like you try to imply.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I still go just to clarify.

 

But attendances for Brum were low for a reason i'm afraid. 6,000 down on the first game of last season. There is a big section of our fan base who not only dislike Lowe, but are prepared to stay away from SMS while he is in charge and selling our best players. Now people might say "screw them they aren't real fans" but i tend to think it is these fans we need to get back if we are to fend off financial problems. Now maybe some of them will come back if this side is successful. But maybe they won't.

 

I dont believe 6000 fans stayed away because of LOWE! How about contributions from

 

1) The fact the team was unknown

2) The credit crunch and prices

3) The cost of fuel

 

Also first game last season was a London side Crystal Palace who brought plenty of support for their first game of the season!

 

Some of these may also have an effect!

 

If the team contuinues to play good football hopefully the fans will come back!

[Saint Without a Halo]

I know for a fact that statement is incorrect. The bank are not stupid. The only way this company makes any money whatsoever is if we are in the prem with the tv money that comes. We will never get there if we carry on selling off our best players. I'm not saying we go out and spend money we haven't got. I am saying we tell the bank we have got rid of god knows how many players off the wage bill and it would now be completely counter productive to sell off any more first teamers.

 

Sounds like you are just the man to have this converstaion with a bank!

Do you think they care! selling players means money to them now not the risky "jam tomorrow" you are offering! Unfortunately banks are not in the risk business and if given the choice will always take money now over future profits.

 

Equity investment on the other hand is there to seek future returns and if we have a good business case and start performing well then maybe we can attract appropriate investment.

 

So keeping players is dependant on performance good football and increasing gates that is our only way out!

[Wes Tender]

and you can guarantee that Lowe was the ONLY reason they did not renew? With no influence from the level of performances and enjoyment (or lack of) last season?

 

I'm entirely happy to confirm that as a matter of principle, because Lowe and now also because Wilde is back in charge, I have not renewed the STs for me or my son. I continue to go to home matches, but the implication is that the two of them do not know whether they have my money or not, so cannot take my support for granted as they do the ST holders.

 

If anybody wants to tut tut about what a poor fan I am, then go ahead. It has nothing to do with the style of play on the field and is purely based on a matter of principle. As soon as the two charlatans are gone, I will renew both STs.

[Verbal Kint]

I dont believe 6000 fans stayed away because of LOWE! How about contributions from

 

1) The fact the team was unknown

2) The credit crunch and prices

3) The cost of fuel

 

Also first game last season was a London side Crystal Palace who brought plenty of support for their first game of the season!

 

Some of these may also have an effect!

 

If the team contuinues to play good football hopefully the fans will come back!

 

I have already stated previously that i don't believe all 6,000 stayed away because of Lowe, but that a proportion of them did.

[Verbal Kint]

There are a multitude of reasons why we are in this division but I guess it must make it easier for you to just assign all the blame to one person. Deep down I suspect you realise how illogical it is to just have a single scape goat for all the problems the club has had but that you don't want to think about it as it would interfere with your hatred.

 

Do you know when i realised we were ****ed? When we bought Nigel Quashie and had to give him the number 40 shirt...

 

This thread isn't about who was responsible for relegation, but i put 90% of the blame at Lowe. If you want to discuss that then start a different thread.

 

And hatred??? You really are a moron. You don't know me, you have no clue what i'm about so don't start speaking of my 'hatred' for people i really don't care about in the slightest. Far more important people in life to have those sort of feelings about than a football chairman.

[Verbal Kint]

Sounds like you are just the man to have this converstaion with a bank!

Do you think they care! selling players means money to them now not the risky "jam tomorrow" you are offering! Unfortunately banks are not in the risk business and if given the choice will always take money now over future profits.

 

Equity investment on the other hand is there to seek future returns and if we have a good business case and start performing well then maybe we can attract appropriate investment.

 

So keeping players is dependant on performance good football and increasing gates that is our only way out!

 

I never said i was the man to talk tot he bank. But who do you think they respect more as a businessman with a plan of attack: Rupert Lowe or Anthony Salz? Go on have a guess...

 

Our only way out is to get promoted. We won't do that by selling our best players. The way to get people back is to build a squad capable of promotion, and many fans clearly do not think this young side is capable of that, especially when we sell our player of the season.

 

I predict this team will be sitting just outside the playoffs at January and then fade to lower midtable. Which will be a good learning season for the youngsters but won't get fans back through the turnstiles.

[pedg]

And hatred??? You really are a moron. You don't know me, you have no clue what i'm about so don't start speaking of my 'hatred' for people i really don't care about in the slightest.

 

Well you act like you hate him and you post like you hate him so I sort of assumed you did hate him. If I said you come over as obsessed about it I assume you will insult me again?

[Fowllyd]

I predict this team will be sitting just outside the playoffs at January and then fade to lower midtable. Which will be a good learning season for the youngsters but won't get fans back through the turnstiles.

 

If you are right about that, and we've been playing good, attractive, attacking football all that time, then I'd predict that attendances will be well up come January. People talk to others who've been to games, they read reports in the Echo and so forth - if a certain number of extra people turn up and like what they see, they'll then tell people they know how good the team is to watch, and attendances will rise again.

 

If we then fade as you predict attendances may fall again, but I think that will depend as much on the quality of entertainment being offered as on actual results.

[OldNick]

I know for a fact that statement is incorrect..

YOu haven't been back to counter my version. Why is that then?

[Verbal Kint]

YOu haven't been back to counter my version. Why is that then?

 

Because i have nothing more to add on the matter.

 

The statement you made that "the bank would only support us if we sold everything we could" is not factually accurate.

[Verbal Kint]

If you are right about that, and we've been playing good, attractive, attacking football all that time, then I'd predict that attendances will be well up come January. People talk to others who've been to games, they read reports in the Echo and so forth - if a certain number of extra people turn up and like what they see, they'll then tell people they know how good the team is to watch, and attendances will rise again.

 

If we then fade as you predict attendances may fall again, but I think that will depend as much on the quality of entertainment being offered as on actual results.

 

It's actually quite an interesting point. Do people come to watch entertaining football or to see winning football?

 

I have to say, and no disrespect to Gordon Strachan and his squad who did a good job, i thought some of the football we played in that period was incredibly dull at times. We relied on Bridgey's crosses and/or long balls to Beattie. But we were reasonably successful doing so and regularly sold out for home games.

 

I think most fans care much more about us being a winning side than an attractive one to watch. Thoughts?

[offix]

Every player will have there price. I just hope we're not forced into selling any of the current first XI on the cheap.

 

Selling 'the crown jewels"?

Sure, he's done it consistently during his "career", so why would now be different? The "jewels" are just not quite as big as they used to be.

[John B]

Verbal Kint is right in what he says.

 

Lowe undoubtedly has a negative effect on home gates.

 

I'm at the point where i will not go to a home game, or buy anything from the club shop because i genuinely despise the man so much.

 

Well I think you should be more sensible hating someone does no good

[buctootim]

It's actually quite an interesting point. Do people come to watch entertaining football or to see winning football?

 

I think most fans care much more about us being a winning side than an attractive one to watch. Thoughts?

 

 

I think you have (at least) two different sorts of fans - those interested in being associated with success and those interested in seeing 'the beautiful game' and having a craick with mates /family on the day.

 

Those motivated by success will come to watch a winning team. They will turn up at games and buy the shirts for their kids but will drift off again when the winning stops.

 

We cant afford to buy the team that will 'guarentee' winning so we cant buy those fans support either. We can however play attract footie and bring back the 'I want to be entertained crowd'.

[Fowllyd]

It's actually quite an interesting point. Do people come to watch entertaining football or to see winning football?

 

I have to say, and no disrespect to Gordon Strachan and his squad who did a good job, i thought some of the football we played in that period was incredibly dull at times. We relied on Bridgey's crosses and/or long balls to Beattie. But we were reasonably successful doing so and regularly sold out for home games.

 

I think most fans care much more about us being a winning side than an attractive one to watch. Thoughts?

 

I'd say it's a mixture of both things, with exact mixture varying from person to person - some will be concerned mostly with seeing their team win, but would prefer to see an entertaining match; others will place more emphasis on being entertained. For many years we had a reputation for playing attractive and attacking football, and I think many Saints fans expect to be entertained as well as to see the side win.

 

I think the key thing is to be able to go to a match with the anticipation of seeing a victory for Saints, preferably achieved in style. I'm sure a hefty number of people have been put off for a while after last season because neither of these things seemed likely for much of it.

 

From your original post on this subject, if we are indeed close to the play-off places come January, we'll have been winning a fair number of matches; and, by all accounts, we're playing with real style as well. That's why I'd expect attendances to rise if this does happen; if we then fade to some extent many people will still feel there's a strong possibility of seeing a good game, with Saints winning, so attendances may take a while to drop.