Why didn't Crouch save us from administration?

[Legod Third Coming]

But he can't afford £6m (or so he said in the Echo), so how would he manage that, with the current levels of interest, which is only driving the asking price upwards?

 

If he was the only interested party, and was offering £2m to buy SFC from SLH (the money from which would go to Barclays as settlement, leaving SLH to be liquidated), he'd own the football club in its entirety. "Dead money", apparently.

 

And would all the shareholders have forgone any value for their shares?

[MOSaint.]

Interesting that the majority so far deem it of little concern. At the eleventh hour I believe Lowe would have given up control of the club if he could have saved it and would have offered Crouch something in return. Even if Crouch received a phone call the night before there was still time to save the club and invest the £2m he had recently offered. If he didn't have the money why offer it so publicly if he couldn't back it up if pushed?

 

If Crouch didn't have the £2m why did he offer it a few weeks before or was he still banking on his £1.9m of shares returning to his original purchase price?Was it just a bluff in an attempt to make the board look bad? Hardly supportive and bordering on dirty tricks IMO.

 

Fair enough if he didn't want to save the club but why act so publicly that he was willing to save it a few weeks before and then turn his back assuming he was asked - which would have been most likely IMO.

 

If he refused to invest why? Is he planning a comeback because he has stated he isn't? If he could have invested as per his previous offer surely he becomes enemy No 1 in the likely event we will now be relegated because of the chaos administration has caused regardless of pending decision from the league?

 

McMenemy knew IMO the club was in meltdown because of his close relationship with Crouch who as a successful businessman and with close ties to Barclays would have been aware of what was happening IMO regardless of any communication from the club. So did McMenemy lie in his statement on the OS to support Crouch?

 

To repeat Lowe was frantic in his efforts to source investment and he must have contacted Leon Crouch and discussions taken place. What were the result of those discussions and did Leon Crouch let this club go to the wall by withdrawing his offer of £2m?

 

There is no suggestion that had he done so it would have been a temporary stay of execution and no doubt he would have been offered a role at the club so he could have made his subsequent touchline pleas as Football Chairman (or whatever) of a club still in charge of its own destiny and with costs increasingly under control about to turn around its fortune not put it on the verge of extinction.

 

However, although we may be relegated perhaps we will be safe from extinction and our 'white knight' rolls into town with his consortium to Save our saints once again, inconceivable? I'm beginning to wonder if it's very probable and if so Division 1 football and a probable points penalty seems a hefty price to pay considering the alternative. Are Leon Crouch and his trusty sidekick beyond reproach or is Crouch especially as culpable if not more so than Lowe as we assess the situation in a little more detail. I would suggest there are questions that need answering if only to clear the murky waters in the run up to administration. A subsequent £50k donation and his PR exercise with the statue doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid and I would like to Crouch to be given the Paxman treatment in a public interview around the issue of the £2m and if it was revisited before Fry marched in.

 

Some are saying it's in the past why does it matter. It matters because we need a clean slate, strong leadership and open and honest communication. If Crouch is positioning himself for a return can we be certain that we will get any of these criteria satisfied to take the club forward? I think we would need satisfactory answers to the points I have raised and I suspect others have many more questions, before a Crouch consortium could be readily accepted.

 

I'm fed up with the look at me look how many pennies I have invested and his representation as the club's 'major fan'. Do we want more bs rhetoric and talk of play off places as we head south down the table, the Peter and the Wolf act over investment, Its an investor! Its an Investor! Its an Investor or the classic players will not need to leave because of Finances - Er Lee, go and tell 'em about Rasiak and Skacel, allegedly.

 

you recon

[teamsaint]

This is all very worrying.

Poor old Saints.

[Tamesaint]

So wheres this evidence that Lowe is paying NC to post on a messageboard, surely it would be cheaper to post himself.

 

Lowe told me so on Saturday. He sits behind in Block 4. He consults NC before doing anything.

[docker-p]

But he can't afford £6m (or so he said in the Echo), so how would he manage that, with the current levels of interest, which is only driving the asking price upwards?

 

If he was the only interested party, and was offering £2m to buy SFC from SLH (the money from which would go to Barclays as settlement, leaving SLH to be liquidated), he'd own the football club in its entirety. "Dead money", apparently.

 

I've tried to work out what your saying but it doesn't make sense.

 

Is LC the only interested party? Is he offering £2m for Saints? Why is putting money into the club now, not buying it just throwing money into a bucket, anything other than Dead money??

 

Maybe we are at cross purposes

[teamsaint]

I've tried to work out what your saying but it doesn't make sense.

 

Is LC the only interested party? Is he offering £2m for Saints? Why is putting money into the club now, not buying it just throwing money into a bucket, anything other than Dead money??

 

Maybe we are at cross purposes

 

I agree docker p.Doesn't make sense to me.

But in any case, £2m won't buy the club, I think, because the administrator will get more by selling off any assets.

[Legod Third Coming]

I agree docker p.Doesn't make sense to me.

But in any case, £2m won't buy the club, I think, because the administrator will get more by selling off any assets.

 

£1 could buy the club, easily.

[Colinjb]

When the house explodes through a gas leak, the wise men will not be arguing about whether rearranging the furniture or watering the pot plants would have made any difference...

 

The club was screwed after years of missmanagement, arguing the toss over who could have done what at the death when it was clear they had no will or power to make such a relevant gesture is so bloody stupid.

[Legod Third Coming]

When the house explodes through a gas leak, the wise men will not be arguing about whether rearranging the furniture or watering the pot plants would have made any difference...

 

We established years ago I thought that Southampton had no wise men and even fewer virgins. But plenty of stables, from where you can hear the doors being bolted despite the horses have gone in the direction of West Ilsley...

[Micky]

Ahhhhh the old internet forum conspiracy theory rears it's ugly head yet again.... sometimes I think that some may slightly overestimate their own importance within the bigger picture.....

 

We are just that, an internet forum - how much clout do we carry in anything - not a lot..!

[DaintyDave]

Er....Lowe would have given up control of the club if he could have saved it? Really? So does the term SISU mean nothing to you? The SISU who Lowe rejected at 30p a share because it meant he and his cronies giving up blocking control. So let's put that myth to bed immediately.

 

Leon's offer was 2mm as long as it was matched by the two other parties. Why would he ever loan 2mm (one third of the money needed to keep the club alive) just to see it get squandered - 2mm wouldn't even see out 2009 at current burn rates - without anyone else putting in their cash......Wilde and Lowe supposedly have all these connections (20mm from Deutsche Bank in writing, Mr. Wilde, really?) so why wouldn't Leon, a humble machinist from Lymington, expect these two giants of industry Lowe and Wilde to be able to match him.

 

Wilde - investment, lie, FACT

Lowe - support of bank, lie, FACT

 

Leon - offer of support, rejected, same as SISU's offer to save us was, FACT

 

I am just sorry I included the very genuine Saints fan Leon Crouch in the same post with the two men who, along with some inept managers and some poor players, got us both relegated and now, as every day passes without signs of an offer, closer to the precipice of extinction.

 

Poor old Coventry hey, they are in a mess compared to us with their investment that Lowe and Wilde both rejected from SISU.

[cambsaint]

I have often wondered why some type of rights issue was never effected.

All the shareholders who have lost everything would have rescued something, and for those who didn't wish to subscribe then fans may have taken up a substantial number.

I have to conclude that some major shareholders either wouldn't or couldn't invest any more, or perhaps there was so much mutual loathing between them that they couldn't/wouldn't cooperate.

Perhaps N/C with his direct line to the duck-murderer could enlighten us further?

[SarniaSaint]

Er....Lowe would have given up control of the club if he could have saved it? Really? So does the term SISU mean nothing to you? The SISU who Lowe rejected at 30p a share because it meant he and his cronies giving up blocking control. So let's put that myth to bed immediately.

 

Leon's offer was 2mm as long as it was matched by the two other parties. Why would he ever loan 2mm (one third of the money needed to keep the club alive) just to see it get squandered - 2mm wouldn't even see out 2009 at current burn rates - without anyone else putting in their cash......Wilde and Lowe supposedly have all these connections (20mm from Deutsche Bank in writing, Mr. Wilde, really?) so why wouldn't Leon, a humble machinist from Lymington, expect these two giants of industry Lowe and Wilde to be able to match him.

 

Wilde - investment, lie, FACT

Lowe - support of bank, lie, FACT

 

Leon - offer of support, rejected, same as SISU's offer to save us was, FACT

 

I am just sorry I included the very genuine Saints fan Leon Crouch in the same post with the two men who, along with some inept managers and some poor players, got us both relegated and now, as every day passes without signs of an offer, closer to the precipice of extinction.

 

Poor old Coventry hey, they are in a mess compared to us with their investment that Lowe and Wilde and Crouch ALL rejected from SISU.

 

There corrected for you, FACT

[Nineteen Canteen]

Because his original 'available sum' was an investment into a company he owned 10% of. Now it is just 'dead' money never to be seen again.

 

Why do that when he can put it towards a bid???

 

Wouldn't have been dead if he put the money in before we went bust or do you think Lowe simply ignored Crouch's offer in his efforts to try and save the club prior to administration? Why not do that and put the club at massive risk? To save it for a bid he has told us he is not making? Interesting stuff don't you think?

[um pahars]

Interesting stuff don't you think?

 

Almost as interesting trying to work out all your multiple identities and wondering who is going to turn up where on what thread in what mood LMFAO;)

[Nineteen Canteen]

Er....Lowe would have given up control of the club if he could have saved it? Really? So does the term SISU mean nothing to you? The SISU who Lowe rejected at 30p a share because it meant he and his cronies giving up blocking control. So let's put that myth to bed immediately.

 

Leon's offer was 2mm as long as it was matched by the two other parties. Why would he ever loan 2mm (one third of the money needed to keep the club alive) just to see it get squandered - 2mm wouldn't even see out 2009 at current burn rates - without anyone else putting in their cash......Wilde and Lowe supposedly have all these connections (20mm from Deutsche Bank in writing, Mr. Wilde, really?) so why wouldn't Leon, a humble machinist from Lymington, expect these two giants of industry Lowe and Wilde to be able to match him.

 

Wilde - investment, lie, FACT

Lowe - support of bank, lie, FACT

 

Leon - offer of support, rejected, same as SISU's offer to save us was, FACT

 

I am just sorry I included the very genuine Saints fan Leon Crouch in the same post with the two men who, along with some inept managers and some poor players, got us both relegated and now, as every day passes without signs of an offer, closer to the precipice of extinction.

 

Poor old Coventry hey, they are in a mess compared to us with their investment that Lowe and Wilde both rejected from SISU.

 

Did Crouch reject the SISU offer? It was Hone and Co who tabled it and I thought it was rejected by all 3. Not certain but if correct an important Fact ommitted.

[um pahars]

Did Crouch reject the SISU offer?

 

I know you weren't around back then, but I'm sure one of your multiple identities could fill you in on all the details;)

[Nineteen Canteen]

I have often wondered why some type of rights issue was never effected.

All the shareholders who have lost everything would have rescued something, and for those who didn't wish to subscribe then fans may have taken up a substantial number.

I have to conclude that some major shareholders either wouldn't or couldn't invest any more, or perhaps there was so much mutual loathing between them that they couldn't/wouldn't cooperate.

Perhaps N/C with his direct line to the duck-murderer could enlighten us further?

 

Don't listen to Tame, I have no line whatsoever to Lowe. I simply don't understand how we can be so unbalanced in our assessment of a grave situation and support individuals who have serious questions with regard to their actions that should be answered given their public role in supporting and asking for support for a club they may have helped over the edge.

[Nineteen Canteen]

There corrected for you, FACT

 

Sarnia - apologies I missed your response but thanks for clarification and as i thought.

[um pahars]

Don't listen to Tame, I have no line whatsoever to Lowe.

 

Does that answer cover all of your identities,or just your latest guise??

[Nineteen Canteen]

I know you weren't around back then, but I'm sure one of your multiple identities could fill you in on all the details;)

 

Stephen you seem more obsessed with me now than actually making a more meaningful contribution. Strange behaviour for one so connected. Are you still fulfilling a senior role on the Saints Trust? If you are as a representative, elected or otherwise of the fans you are making yourself look a bit of an ar5e if you don't mind me saying. Comment on the issues and stop stalking people, I don't love you anymore, get over it, I've moved on.

[um pahars]

I've moved on.

 

Shouldn't that be "we've moved on" LOL;);)

[trousers]

Shouldn't that be "we've moved on" LOL;);)

 

Perhaps ask him why his location says "NW Hants" rather than "SE Hants"....

[um pahars]

Perhaps ask him why his location says "NW Hants" rather than "SE Hants"....

 

Perhaps he's got multiple locations for his multiple personaities LOL;)

[spain saint]

When you say "nobody else has heard it", presumably you mean "and I've not heard it"?

 

Some people are happier to divulge that sort of information, others prefer to keep their counsel for various reasons - on here, I suspect that's mostly because people like you who won't even entertain that their side of the argument might not all be sweetness and light accuse the messenger of being "paid".

 

What's the point in putting information in the public domain if it's just going to be rubbished without any sort of reasonable thought process behind it other than "I don't like him/the person he's backing, therefore he must be talking crap"?

 

 

TBH Steve a lot of people have ruined there reputations on here and other sites claiming to be "itk". So therefore why would anyone put this info up if it could be wrong other than a troll like NC?

 

I cannot believe that RL would ever in a million years go cap in hand to LC even if his gran needed a new kidney and LC was the perfect blood type!!

He would be far too proud!

[DaintyDave]

Nineteen - I think you (deliberately) miss the point of my post. Your premise of your argument on here is that Rupert would not have rejected money if it could have saved the club, even if it meant going to LC for help. My point is that Rupert, along with Wilde and Crouch, rejected the SISU offer only 8 months earlier, and Leon never offered to put in 2m and to suggest otherwise is selectively disingenuous, Leon said he would put in his third of 6m.

 

So when you are done twisting history, just remember, Lowe turned down SISU's money, he failed to match LC's offer, and so to suggest he would never turn down money to save Saints, frankly, makes you sound a little stupid......*

 

* A little stupid being a vast improvement for you.

[alpine_saint]

But less than Wilde.

 

Wilde wasnt in charge of the club. The point I made clearly refers to control of the club.

 

And dont come back giving this crap about Wilde being FC chairman, he was such a puppet he didnt even write his own programme notes.

[NickG]

Thank you, Steve. I think that is a very reasonable observation which should be clarified by the man himself. Begs the question was the original £2m offer given, knowing the conditions couldn't be matched? If so why? If the offer was genuine why did not stand a few months later?

 

IMO £2m would have been enough to see us through and start rebuilding as everything else seemed to becoming under control. No doubt Crouch could have demanded the FC chairman role which he seemed to covet and no doubt would have been offered it as for all Lowe's fault his ego did not want him to contemplate failure and even as a last resort I think would have turned to Crouch IMO.

 

I thought Crouch came across very well on radio hampshire - apart from when this point was put to him, he was clearly agitated and said he has given £50k and done enough. I can't argue £50k is a lot of money and £50k more than he needed to, but doesn't explain why the previous offer to keep the club alive isn't followed through.

[NickG]

Because his original 'available sum' was an investment into a company he owned 10% of. Now it is just 'dead' money never to be seen again.

 

Why do that when he can put it towards a bid???

 

fair point,

[alpine_saint]

I admire your desire to ignore the reaction of the rest of the forum who consider you a joke and have treated this as such.

 

However, no one will take you seriously. Give up.

 

Fair's fair, Frank's cousin hasnt seen it yet.

 

Give him a chance to write his usual 50 megabytes of disk space with 0 bit content before implying the whole of the rest of the forum dismisses NC as writing his usual comedy material........

[Sarnia Saint]

Interesting that the majority so far deem it of little concern. At the eleventh hour I believe Lowe would have given up control of the club if he could have saved it and would have offered Crouch something in return. Even if Crouch received a phone call the night before there was still time to save the club and invest the £2m he had recently offered. If he didn't have the money why offer it so publicly if he couldn't back it up if pushed?

 

If Crouch didn't have the £2m why did he offer it a few weeks before or was he still banking on his £1.9m of shares returning to his original purchase price?Was it just a bluff in an attempt to make the board look bad? Hardly supportive and bordering on dirty tricks IMO.

 

Fair enough if he didn't want to save the club but why act so publicly that he was willing to save it a few weeks before and then turn his back assuming he was asked - which would have been most likely IMO.

 

If he refused to invest why? Is he planning a comeback because he has stated he isn't? If he could have invested as per his previous offer surely he becomes enemy No 1 in the likely event we will now be relegated because of the chaos administration has caused regardless of pending decision from the league?

 

McMenemy knew IMO the club was in meltdown because of his close relationship with Crouch who as a successful businessman and with close ties to Barclays would have been aware of what was happening IMO regardless of any communication from the club. So did McMenemy lie in his statement on the OS to support Crouch?

 

To repeat Lowe was frantic in his efforts to source investment and he must have contacted Leon Crouch and discussions taken place. What were the result of those discussions and did Leon Crouch let this club go to the wall by withdrawing his offer of £2m?

 

There is no suggestion that had he done so it would have been a temporary stay of execution and no doubt he would have been offered a role at the club so he could have made his subsequent touchline pleas as Football Chairman (or whatever) of a club still in charge of its own destiny and with costs increasingly under control about to turn around its fortune not put it on the verge of extinction.

 

However, although we may be relegated perhaps we will be safe from extinction and our 'white knight' rolls into town with his consortium to Save our saints once again, inconceivable? I'm beginning to wonder if it's very probable and if so Division 1 football and a probable points penalty seems a hefty price to pay considering the alternative. Are Leon Crouch and his trusty sidekick beyond reproach or is Crouch especially as culpable if not more so than Lowe as we assess the situation in a little more detail. I would suggest there are questions that need answering if only to clear the murky waters in the run up to administration. A subsequent £50k donation and his PR exercise with the statue doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid and I would like to Crouch to be given the Paxman treatment in a public interview around the issue of the £2m and if it was revisited before Fry marched in.

 

Some are saying it's in the past why does it matter. It matters because we need a clean slate, strong leadership and open and honest communication. If Crouch is positioning himself for a return can we be certain that we will get any of these criteria satisfied to take the club forward? I think we would need satisfactory answers to the points I have raised and I suspect others have many more questions, before a Crouch consortium could be readily accepted.

 

I'm fed up with the look at me look how many pennies I have invested and his representation as the club's 'major fan'. Do we want more bs rhetoric and talk of play off places as we head south down the table, the Peter and the Wolf act over investment, Its an investor! Its an Investor! Its an Investor or the classic players will not need to leave because of Finances - Er Lee, go and tell 'em about Rasiak and Skacel, allegedly.

 

You believe Lowe would have given up control, you assume he would have gone to Crouch, you infer Barclays would break client confidentiality to advise LC of the perilous state of the company finances, you suggest LC is maybe making a bid with nothing to support that assertion. On that basis I am not sure any of these questions do require a reply as the foundations of your argument are built on sand.

 

I personally don't think any of them should be involved in the future but I certainly wouldn't expect someone to put £2m into a business which is losing money to see it burned away by two people who had previously made it clear they didn't want him. I do love the way we are so quick to spend other peoples money! - perhaps we should ask Mike Wilde why he put £200k into the Jersey FA and not into Saints?

[NickG]

Er....Lowe would have given up control of the club if he could have saved it? Really? So does the term SISU mean nothing to you? The SISU who Lowe rejected at 30p a share because it meant he and his cronies giving up blocking control. So let's put that myth to bed immediately.

 

Leon's offer was 2mm as long as it was matched by the two other parties. Why would he ever loan 2mm (one third of the money needed to keep the club alive) just to see it get squandered - 2mm wouldn't even see out 2009 at current burn rates - without anyone else putting in their cash......Wilde and Lowe supposedly have all these connections (20mm from Deutsche Bank in writing, Mr. Wilde, really?) so why wouldn't Leon, a humble machinist from Lymington, expect these two giants of industry Lowe and Wilde to be able to match him.

 

Wilde - investment, lie, FACT

Lowe - support of bank, lie, FACT

 

Leon - offer of support, rejected, same as SISU's offer to save us was, FACT

 

I am just sorry I included the very genuine Saints fan Leon Crouch in the same post with the two men who, along with some inept managers and some poor players, got us both relegated and now, as every day passes without signs of an offer, closer to the precipice of extinction.

 

Poor old Coventry hey, they are in a mess compared to us with their investment that Lowe and Wilde both rejected from SISU.

 

seem to forget Crouch's investment by the end of last season!

[Give it to Ron]

seem to forget Crouch's investment by the end of last season!

 

You seem to forget that Crouch believed like many that Fulthorpe would of delivered as promised.

[NickG]

no I don't, but in a list of times we have been promised investment that was one of the most vocal -direct from the chairman, so strange that it wasn't included in the list.

[Give it to Ron]

no I don't, but in a list of times we have been promised investment that was one of the most vocal -direct from the chairman, so strange that it wasn't included in the list.

 

Because it wasn't a lie? He like many believed Fulthorpe as opposed to the other 2 in the list who blatantly did especially Wilde who did nothing but during his time here and who I believe gets away scot free in all this.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

You seem to forget that Crouch believed like many that Fulthorpe would of delivered as promised.

 

Not true - LC told me as far back as last September he was very dubious that Fulthorpe could deliver what was being touted around.

[ghq]

Perhaps it's time to stop this silly bickering. What is being argued here is whether or not Leon Crouch could have done more for the club. It has moved on from that original question, to name calling and flights of fancy from participants. My opinion,as that's all it is, just like most others on here, is that the club needs any of the holy trinity like a hole in the head, or more accurately another hole in the a..e. Having spent my formative years in Hampshire, Saints were and still are my club of choice, if from a distance. I still get upset about the way the club has spiralled out of control. Surely the time for egoes has long gone and we should be united in getting behind the club in it's, in my memory, lowest ebb. Apart from that,what the f... am I going to do if there is no club to support and no forum to read next season?

[Frank's cousin]

I dont think anyone has teh right to EXPECT leon to have saved us singlehandedly - and loaning 2mil to a failing club might have been a stop gap, but without a long term plan in place would have probally been the same as leon dropping it in a skip and saying goodbye to it... Leon is a wealthy manby average stakes, but I dont think he is likely to have have 2mil in loose change just burning a hole in his pocket - his shareloss will have hit him, perhaps not as hard as Wilde but it will have hurt nonetheless.

 

With Wilde and Lowe, I think its a simple case of neitehr of tehm having the capital to hand even if tehy wanted to match Crouches offer - and I am sure Leon would have know this when he made it - so it could have been a little bit of a PR stunt even if he was prepared to inject the cash.

 

So my opinion is that Leon was quite within his rights not to singlehandedly inject cash - I would not expect him to do so - but it also means that those who advoacte him as some sort of uberfan messiah - who is chums with those other uberfans Lawrie and MC, need to put him more in perspective.

Edited 17 April, 2009 by Frank's cousin

[Give it to Ron]

Not true - LC told me as far back as last September he was very dubious that Fulthorpe could deliver what was being touted around.

 

So who did LC think would deliver the investment FF?

Surely not Salz etc as they appear to have given up from what you posted the other week. If they do not have the funds now then how were they going to

do it then.

Christ that reads aggressive......not meant that way just a question

[Frank's cousin]

For teh record: I believe alll THREE rejected the SISU offer - there was a joint press release on this as I recall... that is I believe a FACT

[John B]

So who did LC think would deliver the investment FF?

Surely not Salz etc as they appear to have given up from what you posted the other week. If they do not have the funds now then how were they going to

do it then.

Christ that reads aggressive......not meant that way just a question

 

Yes a very interesting question as I always felt that Crouch was expecting investment any moment but from whom?

[Frank's cousin]

Yes a very interesting question as I always felt that Crouch was expecting investment any moment but from whom?

 

Well originally I guess from Wildes 'investors in the wings' thus santioning the 7mil spend and the subsequent falling out with Wilde - leaving to door open for Wilde +Lowe - seriously its a comedy cript if it were not so bloody tragic --- grown men?

[John B]

For teh record: I believe alll THREE rejected the SISU offer - there was a joint press release on this as I recall... that is I believe a FACT

 

I dont think any of the shareholders like it as SISU were going to dilute their holdings I think.

 

In retrospect they may have wished they had agreed to SISU as their shares are well and truly diluted now

 

With regard to Crouch's investors he was saying that investment was round the corner this time last year well after Wilde's fantasies

[Nineteen Canteen]

Nineteen - I think you (deliberately) miss the point of my post. Your premise of your argument on here is that Rupert would not have rejected money if it could have saved the club, even if it meant going to LC for help. My point is that Rupert, along with Wilde and Crouch, rejected the SISU offer only 8 months earlier, and Leon never offered to put in 2m and to suggest otherwise is selectively disingenuous, Leon said he would put in his third of 6m.

 

So when you are done twisting history, just remember, Lowe turned down SISU's money, he failed to match LC's offer, and so to suggest he would never turn down money to save Saints, frankly, makes you sound a little stupid......*

 

* A little stupid being a vast improvement for you.

 

Dainty can I confirm what you are saying? Crouch never suggested he would offer £2m but would put in a third of £6m?

 

How is that different form me suggesting that Crouch offered to invest £2m if Lowe and Wilde could match his contribution? Semantics isn't it?

 

You stated, as FACT, on your original post that Wilde and Lowe rejected the SISU bid and by ommission suggested Crouch, until Sarnia Saints rightly corrected your somewhat misleading post.

 

If Lowe or Wilde couldn't match Crouch's offer (can this be proved?) and Crouch was publicly willing to splash his cash why didn't he when it became desperate for him to do so?

 

I don't think Rupert would have rejected Crouch's offer for a cash loan of £2m given Crouch could have been offered the role he covets. Rupert Lowe did not want this club to fail and neither would any businessman what the negative connations for which Lowe has now unjustly been hounded for IMO. So I think my premise is a reasonable point of view.

 

Dainty you seem concerned with semantics, smokescreens and mirrors. £2m or a 3rd of £6m, I think most people understood where I was coming from and sorry if I am just a fan asking difficult questions but you are going to have to try harder than that to convince me about what went on.

[um pahars]

Dainty you seem concerned with semantics, smokescreens and mirrors.

 

Coming from multiple poster, multiple location and multiple viewpoint Number 1, please for give me If I have a monitor/coffee moment LMFAO;);)

 

Smoke and mirrors me up LOL

[Wes Tender]

Nineteen - I think you (deliberately) miss the point of my post. Your premise of your argument on here is that Rupert would not have rejected money if it could have saved the club, even if it meant going to LC for help. My point is that Rupert, along with Wilde and Crouch, rejected the SISU offer only 8 months earlier, and Leon never offered to put in 2m and to suggest otherwise is selectively disingenuous, Leon said he would put in his third of 6m.

 

So when you are done twisting history, just remember, Lowe turned down SISU's money, he failed to match LC's offer, and so to suggest he would never turn down money to save Saints, frankly, makes you sound a little stupid......*

 

* A little stupid being a vast improvement for you.

 

A very pertinent and credible point, Dave, that shoots down the entire premise of Nineteen's thread in flames.

 

But Nineteen must be barking if he believes that Lowe would have been prepared to move aside as chairman in favour of Crouch, if Crouch put in enough money to save Lowe's bacon. For that is what it amounts to, saving Lowe's bacon rather than the club, is how Lowe would see it. It is common enough knowledge that Lowe, Wilde and Crouch despise each other and that their clashing egos have been the root cause of the lack of unity and disharmony that has been the main factor in our current demise. Lowe's massive ego would prefer the club to go under so that he can blame Crouch and Wilde as he has been doing, rather than accept that under his watch the club could only be kept afloat by him going cap in hand to somebody like Crouch to help bail him out.

[Frank's cousin]

Nineteen - I think you (deliberately) miss the point of my post. Your premise of your argument on here is that Rupert would not have rejected money if it could have saved the club, even if it meant going to LC for help. My point is that Rupert, along with Wilde and Crouch, rejected the SISU offer only 8 months earlier, and Leon never offered to put in 2m and to suggest otherwise is selectively disingenuous, Leon said he would put in his third of 6m.

 

So when you are done twisting history, just remember, Lowe turned down SISU's money, he failed to match LC's offer, and so to suggest he would never turn down money to save Saints, frankly, makes you sound a little stupid......*

 

* A little stupid being a vast improvement for you.

 

To be fair, the situation was different at that time when Lowe, Wilde and CRouch rejected teh SISU offer which was rumoured at around 22p a share - a massive 66% loss for Crouch and well over 50% for Wilde so hardly surprizing - without knowing the finer details of the offer and what POSITIVES it had itd difficult to say whether it was in hindsight something we shuld have been more receptive to, but as I recall teh VAST majority on here were against being owned by a hedge fund.

[John B]

A very pertinent and credible point, Dave, that shoots down the entire premise of Nineteen's thread in flames.

 

But Nineteen must be barking if he believes that Lowe would have been prepared to move aside as chairman in favour of Crouch, if Crouch put in enough money to save Lowe's bacon. For that is what it amounts to, saving Lowe's bacon rather than the club, is how Lowe would see it. It is common enough knowledge that Lowe, Wilde and Crouch despise each other and that their clashing egos have been the root cause of the lack of unity and disharmony that has been the main factor in our current demise. Lowe's massive ego would prefer the club to go under so that he can blame Crouch and Wilde as he has been doing, rather than accept that under his watch the club could only be kept afloat by him going cap in hand to somebody like Crouch to help bail him out.

 

 

Surely there is a possible explanation that Crouch could be playing games to make himself look good to the fans knowing full well that Lowe and Wilde could not raise £2 million

[Frank's cousin]

Lowe's massive ego would prefer the club to go under so that he can blame Crouch and Wilde as he has been doing, rather than accept that under his watch the club could only be kept afloat by him going cap in hand to somebody like Crouch to help bail him out.

 

To be fair Wes that is 'speculation and opinion' rather than 'common knowledge'

[saint1977]

I dont think anyone has teh right to EXPECT leon to have saved us singlehandedly - and loaning 2mil to a failing club might have been a stop gap, but without a long term plan in place would have probally been the same as leon dropping it in a skip and saying goodbye to it... Leon is a wealthy manby average stakes, but I dont think he is likely to have have 2mil in loose change just burning a hole in his pocket - his shareloss will have hit him, perhaps not as hard as Wilde but it will have hurt nonetheless.

 

With Wilde and Lowe, I think its a simple case of neitehr of tehm having the capital to hand even if tehy wanted to match Crouches offer - and I am sure Leon would have know this when he made it - so it could have been a little bit of a PR stunt even if he was prepared to inject the cash.

 

So my opinion is that Leon was quite within his rights not to singlehandedly inject cash - I would not expect him to do so - but it also means that those who advoacte him as some sort of uberfan messiah - who is chums with those other uberfans Lawrie and MC, need to put him more in perspective.

 

Good post. Sundance/19C really needs to move on now. By the way, didn't him/it acknowledge anywhere the support the board got in the 1990s when trying to build the stadium? I certainly attended most of the meetings. Yet according to C19 it's all our fault and the consistent dreadful appointment of managers, huge money squandered on non-playing loans and players that can't even get in the reserves XI, the White Elephant of a Dome and lack of confidence in Lowe and Wilde by Barclays had nothing to do with it. I mean I'm no fan of Leon Crouch and have my doubts that he can have much impact but really Sundance, some of your postings have been very desperate of late.

 

Personally, I wish Askham and friends hadn't got Secure Retirement on board and that we'd picked a proper consortium but that's history now. What needs to happen is that we pull together and save this club.