Not happening, is it ???

[um pahars]

I may have missed it

 

It was probably mentioned before you rocked up in mid January;)

 

HTH

[trousers]

Trust and public perception. I would not invest a penny if the forensic accountants need to be employed to determine if we have have broken some basic inter company structure. If the FL aren't sure of the transparency between the two entities then nor am I and neither should anyone else.

 

Wouldn't the "3rd party account" (i.e. Escrow) solution solve that uncertainly though? Although, that said, could we afford the cost of an Escrow account in the first place?! (although that could always be embedded in the cost of the season ticket I guess)

[Northant Saint]

I still think there is more hope for a decent long-term future for the club now, but I admit am starting to suffer from impatience and frayed nerves.

 

And just to let you know - I didnt think it was the "best thing that could happen", so grow up a bit.

 

I didnt bring SFC to this point - Lowe and Wilde did.

 

Impatience and frayed nerves is the least of your issues mate.

[um pahars]

Agree that ST sales are vital, but I'm not sure why the club can't put that money in escrow.

 

Open up an escrow account where the condition of release is the ongoing existence of the football club. Fans 'buy' their season tickets in the usual way, but the funds aren't released until the future of the club is assured.

 

Not sure if it would work given the admin situation, but that would be my first thought.

 

And potentially a very good thought as well.

 

Like you, I'm not sure of the mechanics, cost and many other factors, but if 10,000 season tickets could be sold PDQ, then that would be close to £4m sat in a bank somehwere which might interest people.

 

P.S. As for cost, administering, legal issues etc, then surely it could be possible to call on the goodwill of some legal eagles, accountants and maybe even bankers (and banks) who could possible do it for free (or at least a reduced cost basis).

Edited 16 April, 2009 by um pahars

[trousers]

And potentially a very good thought as well.

 

Like you, I'm not sure of the mechanics, cost and many other factors, but if 10,000 season tickets could be sold PDQ, then that would be close to £4m sat in a bank somehwere which might interest people.

 

I'm actually at a loss as to why this isn't happening....now!

[John B]

I'm actually at a loss as to why this isn't happening....now!

 

I think the main stumbling block is the price to be charged

[Pancake]

I'm actually at a loss as to why this isn't happening....now!

 

Now, I might be going out on a limb here, but are we currently ALLOWED to sell season tickets for next season when the FL are not sure of our ability to fulfill the criteria for League involvement next season?

[WestSaint]

Oh dear, seems it's catching. Gates were down UM by about 5k before a ball was kicked and after the Norwich win crowds actually rose during one of our worse home runs on record. Its therefore arguable if its Lowe related or performance (JP) related. Personally, it would suggest it is Lowe relate and who's to say had he kept on Pearson the Caveman the likes of John Smith woudl still have got thier knickers all twisted and stayed away in a girly huff.

 

Even after the renewed hope delivered by Wotte gates barely crawled above 18k (prior to admin) supporting my theory that performance actually had little to do with it.

 

 

Of course performance had a lot to do with it. The team under JP barely won a couple of home games all season and the way in which we played at that time with a young forward in his first full season leading the line coupled with a poor defence probably predetermined every match result until Christmas.

 

Fans and supporters see what the problems are, they also see no attempts at correcting the situation. JP was a very poor manager for us. Wotte is better and it is a shame the managerial change was not made earlier. If the Club are not willing to make changes to improve results, who can blame fans for staying away.

[trousers]

I think the main stumbling block is the price to be charged

 

I'm sure we could get around that by charging a 'minimum base price' initially to cover the going rate in League 1, and then collect a (contracted) additional payment later if we stay in the CCC.

 

Surely it's better to have SOME money in the bank through season ticket sales than none at all and go out of business as a result?

 

(just seen Pancake's thought on this which may have something to do with it of course but won't the Escrow route protect all interested parties?)

[John B]

I'm sure we could get around that by charging a 'minimum base price' initially to cover the going rate in League 1, and then collect a (contracted) additional payment later if we stay in the CCC.

 

Surely it's better to have SOME money in the bank through season ticket sales than none at all and go out of business as a result?

 

(just seen Pancake's thought on this which may have something to do with it of course but won't the Escrow route protect all interested parties?)

 

You seem to forget that nobody is really running the club

 

The administrators are just trying to py off the debts not planning for next season

[trousers]

You seem to forget that nobody is really running the club

 

The administrators are just trying to py off the debts not planning for next season

 

I thought the administrator was sorting out the debts of Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC?

 

Why wouldn't Southampton Football Club Ltd continue to be run as a going concern at the moment?

 

Won't one of SLH's subsidiary companies generating additional revenue increase it's value as an asset to the PLC?

Edited 16 April, 2009 by trousers

[John B]

I thought the administrator was sorting out the debts of Southampton Leisure Holdings?

 

Why wouldn't Southampton Football Club Ltd continue to be run as a going concern at the moment?

 

You would have thought so but as I said I doubt there is any planning for next season because that would probably inter with parties currently bidding

 

They know we have no income from ticket sales so they will be making an estimate on how many they will sell

 

 

Anyway if we get any money in it will be used to pay off ciurrent debts or Euells wages

Edited 16 April, 2009 by John B

[Nineteen Canteen]

The whole reason for the frisson of fear doing the rounds at the moment are a few rumours that because the last couple of attendances havent been all that was hoped, we arent even going to make it to the end of the season.

 

If Crouch and Pearson had been here still, with Crouch putting a friendlier and more fan-oriented slant on the club communications, and Pearson motivating and employing tactics that actually, well, made sense and getting better results because of them, I am certain attendances over the 23-odd games would have held up better, let alone the last 3 games.

 

Ergo, we would have been in a lot less money trouble and would ahve made it through the season and perhaps not even ended up in admin.

 

I have seen nothing to indicate Crouch would not have made the necessary cost cuts to keep us going. After all, he made the unpopular decision to loan out Rasiak and Skacel.

 

 

Alpine he did loan them out at the eleventh hour having proudly boasted in his programme notes earlier that month that the club would not need to let players go for financial reasons. We were astounded they went and who communicated the news? Crouch? Don't be silly he had his fan friendly persona to protect so up steps Lee Hoos.

 

Then we had Crouch's way of dealing with costs cuts - talk about unpopular and necessary ideas and plans but prefer to hope for investment telling us at regular intervals that it was 3 months away then 6 then 9 but always acheiveable apparentyl. He cried wolf on Investment sometimes it felt like we had Peter Crouch on board. Its an investor! Its an investor! Its an investor! Yeah, Yeah, Peter (leon) whatever.

 

Lowe may have been loathed but i respect him for telling us as it was and if he tried to put a positive spin on things then he was living up to the king of spin and empty rhetoric IMO. Crouch playing the youth and he would have been forecasting promotion.

 

I can usually see your POV Alpine on most things even If I don't always agree but Crouch would be a disaster IMO and it worries me greatly at having said he is not coming back that is exactly what will happen hanging on to the tail of another consortium. Morph, IMO is connected with Crouch, hence my concern as when Crouch starts talking investment Morph starts posting or just a happy coincidence?

 

We need strong leadership not someone telling us at every turn how much they love the club that they are not bothered about losing £1.9m in lets not forget a spectacularly bad piece of investment especially at the price per share or how much they have contributed to the cause. It's distasteful and the fact he needs to tell us how much he has given for whatever reasons and small change for him given he can afford to lose £1.9m shows that he is doing it to sway the fans to believe something he isn't IMO. Someone capable of dragging this club back from the brink. There will never be unity whilst old faces (not a spelling mistake) remain on the block.

 

A few weeks ago month ago Crouch was willing to invest £2m with conditions

that i doubt Lowe and Wilde were in a position to match. I would love to know why before the 11th hour the conditons weren't removed to save the club? I won't speculate but there are one or two intriguing possibilities.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Of course performance had a lot to do with it. The team under JP barely won a couple of home games all season and the way in which we played at that time with a young forward in his first full season leading the line coupled with a poor defence probably predetermined every match result until Christmas.

 

Fans and supporters see what the problems are, they also see no attempts at correcting the situation. JP was a very poor manager for us. Wotte is better and it is a shame the managerial change was not made earlier. If the Club are not willing to make changes to improve results, who can blame fans for staying away.

 

The fans stayed away by 5k before a ball was kicked and increased during our worst performances and did not increase after our best period of performances.

 

Performance I would suggest had little to do with it and it was other personal and economic factors at play. For other than economic factors there was no real reason for fans to stay away in the numbers they did compared to a poor season before.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I'm sure we could get around that by charging a 'minimum base price' initially to cover the going rate in League 1, and then collect a (contracted) additional payment later if we stay in the CCC.

 

Surely it's better to have SOME money in the bank through season ticket sales than none at all and go out of business as a result?

 

(just seen Pancake's thought on this which may have something to do with it of course but won't the Escrow route protect all interested parties?)

 

Trousers I support the idea in theory and if we can't fulfill fixtures next season funds can simply be returned to the individual less administration costs as banks don't manage these accounts for nothing.

 

It would be a far stronger message than the pledge process because real money will be sitting there ready to go. Problem is public trust and understanding and mechanics of an escrow account and a bank will need to be appinted to manage it and fees paid accordingly which won't be cheap.

 

Also the pledge process is the darkest hour solution and allows fans to keep their powder dry before they know the idenity of the new regime they are supporting or keep their promise if nothing materialises. The identity of new owners shouldn't be an issue but recent events tell us otherwise and for all my opinions I would have an issue paying for a ST to fan run club with very limited resources and would prefer to attend on a match by match basis for as long as we remained in business.

 

For the record I would be willing to pay c£350 for a ticket in L1 and up to £400 for a ticket in the CCC to support a rebuild of the club under the right ownership otherwise pay on a Match by Match basis.

[jonah]

and most sadly of all, opposition effects it, as we got 32,000 to watch man utd play out a training ground fa cup victory.

 

Yes I think this is really the only thing that affects it - hence why Leicester's crowds have dropped 4,500 despite being top of Div 1, and why Birmingham have had poor crowds all season despite being in the automatic promotion spots all season. People can pretend that it's about board members, results and style of play, but really it's about the core support compared to the casual supporters... there's not a lot you can do about that, otherwise Luton would have been filling a 40,000 stadium right up until they went out of the league...

[JoeShmoe]

I have it on the highest authority that unless 400k is raised by the Burnley game then we will not play that match, and the club will go to the wall.

 

I heard something similar yesterday(from about the lowest authority - one of the lads we play 5-a-side with in the bar afterwards) so this rumour has legs even if it is or isnt true

[KMondo]

Lowe may have been loathed but i respect him for telling us as it was

 

(cough) revolutionary coaching set-up (cough).

 

Comical Ali would have been proud of some of the guff talked on the OS in pre-season.

[itchen]

Excellent. It's a little grey and depressing this morning and this made me actually laugh out loud. Thanks.

 

Mods - can we have a name change please? Alpine_Saint to Piglet.

 

Although Piglet was a nervous animal, he wasn't a doom and gloom merchant. Wouldn't Eeyore be more appropriate?

[Torres]

Although Piglet was a nervous animal, he wasn't a doom and gloom merchant. Wouldn't Eeyore be more appropriate?

 

He's the bastard love child of the pair.

 

Pigore? Eeylet?

[Channon's Sideburns]

Wouldn't the "3rd party account" (i.e. Escrow) solution solve that uncertainly though? Although, that said, could we afford the cost of an Escrow account in the first place?! (although that could always be embedded in the cost of the season ticket I guess)

 

Ask everyone to pay by Credit Card and you don't need to set up an Escrow account - the club gets the funds immediately and the payer sends payment in the knowledge that they will be refunded should it go under.

[Weston Super Saint]

The fans stayed away by 5k before a ball was kicked and increased during our worst performances and did not increase after our best period of performances.

 

Performance I would suggest had little to do with it and it was other personal and economic factors at play. For other than economic factors there was no real reason for fans to stay away in the numbers they did compared to a poor season before.

 

Such a shame then that we didn't have a forward thinking dynamic chairman that was able to react to current economic climate changes and put a pricing policy in place to retain the 'customers'

[Nineteen Canteen]

Such a shame then that we didn't have a forward thinking dynamic chairman that was able to react to current economic climate changes and put a pricing policy in place to retain the 'customers'

 

Better the devil you know, or even the one you thought you knew.

[Saint Billy]

My concern is that if any potential buyer is waiting to see if we get relegated or not, it may well be too late and the club could have already died before knowing the outcome.

 

Was it not stated that we have until the beginning of May to find a buyer? correct me if I am wrong. If that is the case we have two weeks left. Yes we may well know how we stand in the league by then, but we might not know the FA ruling on the point deduction.

 

If that is the case, our only chance is having a buyer who will purchase whether we are in the CCC or not. Scary!

[itchen]

Ask everyone to pay by Credit Card and you don't need to set up an Escrow account - the club gets the funds immediately and the payer sends payment in the knowledge that they will be refunded should it go under.

 

Do you not think that the credit card companies might have something to say about such an idea? Like "No".

[Window Cleaner]

My concern is that if any potential buyer is waiting to see if we get relegated or not, it may well be too late and the club could have already died before knowing the outcome.

 

Was it not stated that we have until the beginning of May to find a buyer? correct me if I am wrong. If that is the case we have two weeks left. Yes we may well know how we stand in the league by then, but we might not know the FA ruling on the point deduction.

 

If that is the case, our only chance is having a buyer who will purchase whether we are in the CCC or not. Scary!

 

There are obviously buyers, probably aren't willing to part with enough cash to make their "potential" of any great interest to the creditors.

[Window Cleaner]

Do you not think that the credit card companies might have something to say about such an idea? Like "No".

 

Sounds like the kind of wheeze that got AIG into so much trouble.

All they do is insure credit deals, like the one outlined above.

[Smirking_Saint]

I am sure we will be fine. Although we are all a little worried which is natural, the time that it has taken so far does not surprise me. I am no expert but i assume the admin team will need to go in and assess the situation and every aspect before they can negotiate properly with each party anyways. Then you have the many different parties that atleast need to be given a chance to speak and the more serious ones (No-one really knows how many) would equally take longer to speak to.

 

Also as has been said many times the FL's delaying tactics would not have helped in the slightest as does our continual roller coaster ride that is our impending relegation/escape that will definately effect the price.

 

I do believe we will be taken over anyways, the current financial climate leads me to believe that there must be some pure passion driven investments in the pipeline as sound business sense does not scream at buying an ailing premiership infrastructured club heading to L1. (due to running costs although i do see the attraction of having everything ready) Although many may see a passion driven and perhaps not massively thought out investment at this time as 'not another one' at the moment my only concern is having a club to support/slag off.

 

None of us have an idea what is going on, i am feeling how you are feeling too Alpine i really am i just want the mess sorted as do we all. Admin is a crap situation confounded by the FL (not a dig btw alpine) but i believe we will drag ourselves out of it, maybe slightly dazed and confused but it'll be a club and we can start rebuilding.

 

Unfortunately i think anyone that believes we will be a sizeable force within the next 2 years will be slightly deluded (although i will be happily proved wrong) but i believe we will make it back to where we belong.

 

Here's to hoping anyway

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Nothing is happening. Lots of enquiries but everybody is sitting on the fence and waiting.

I have it on the highest authority that unless 400k is raised by the Burnley game then we will not play that match, and the club will go to the wall.

A big celebrity kick about is being arranged at St Mary's (the end of next week I believe, announcement imminent) in a desperate attempt to raise funds and get us through to the end of the season.

 

I think you're putting the cart before the horse there - the next step will be a CVA not "go to the wall"

[Window Cleaner]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse there - the next step will be a CVA not "go to the wall"

 

Well what about if we couldn't afford to pay stewards, police, bar suppliers, programme printers and all that sort of stuff.If we owe the Police Dept money and they aren't willing to give us any more tick we couldn't get the match policed and it might not be allowed to proceed.

[Redbul]

Apologies if someone has said this before (I confess I haven't read all of the posts in this thread) but any prospective purchaser will be waiting to see if we survive in this league and will also be waiting to see what the FL decide to do to us. Whatever the outcomes, any offer will reflect these. We won't hear anything until our future staus is confirmed.

 

Personally, I'm fairly confident that we'll be okay. Current climate notwithstanding, I cannot believe that we won't be bought up. All the infrastructure is there to make us a real force in football again.

 

Yes, I said 'again'. Confident, see?

[The Rover]

We have a great stadium, and potentialy a great fan base, yet 2 weeks after administration is called, the only likely buyer of a club asset is the f**king council.

 

Is this adminstrator doing his f**king job properly ?

 

Personally I think the Administrator should make a point of updating alpine_saint of his activities on a daily basis.

 

I appreciate that Mr Fry has a difficult enough task as it is and that most of his discussions are confidential in the interests of getting a buyer for the club and saving Saints from extinction but surely he realises that this counts for nothing if alpine_saint is not kept fully informed of his progress.

[Barry the Badger]

Yes I think this is really the only thing that affects it - hence why Leicester's crowds have dropped 4,500 despite being top of Div 1, and why Birmingham have had poor crowds all season despite being in the automatic promotion spots all season. People can pretend that it's about board members, results and style of play, but really it's about the core support compared to the casual supporters... there's not a lot you can do about that, otherwise Luton would have been filling a 40,000 stadium right up until they went out of the league...

 

Just to add to this discussion... For various reasons I can't make every game but I have been to 10 home games this season, and 2 away. So I guess I might class as a more casual supporter?

 

For me it makes no difference who we are playing, whether we are top of the league or bottom I will just come to whatever game I can make it too. I came to Charlton, but couldn't make Palace due to being away over easter, and I will be at the Burnley game.

 

I suppose my point is that sometimes there is no particular reason for people coming/not coming, so higher or lower attendances on a game by game basis could just be down to circumstance.

 

I also don't particularly buy into the theory that there are 5-10 thousand 'stay-aways' who used to come every game but now don't come at all. I think we just have a lot of 'casual' fans who are still coming just maybe not so often.

[broncoboy]

Just to add to this discussion... For various reasons I can't make every game but I have been to 10 home games this season, and 2 away. So I guess I might class as a more casual supporter?

 

For me it makes no difference who we are playing, whether we are top of the league or bottom I will just come to whatever game I can make it too. I came to Charlton, but couldn't make Palace due to being away over easter, and I will be at the Burnley game.

 

I suppose my point is that sometimes there is no particular reason for people coming/not coming, so higher or lower attendances on a game by game basis could just be down to circumstance.

 

I also don't particularly buy into the theory that there are 5-10 thousand 'stay-aways' who used to come every game but now don't come at all. I think we just have a lot of 'casual' fans who are still coming just maybe not so often.

 

 

 

 

Good point

[dubai_phil]

Agree that ST sales are vital, but I'm not sure why the club can't put that money in escrow.

 

Open up an escrow account where the condition of release is the ongoing existence of the football club. Fans 'buy' their season tickets in the usual way, but the funds aren't released until the future of the club is assured.

 

Not sure if it would work given the admin situation, but that would be my first thought.

 

The fundamental flaw in that concept is that the Football Club needs to SPEND that ST money in order to pay the wages (amongst other items). Once spent, it cannot be kept safe in escrow.

Then IF we don't get bought, the ST holders will not get back their full amount from the Administrator as the Football Club will be gone.

 

Again, what sort of take up would there be IF that risk was hanging over us???

 

It's all about controlling the risks - we aren't in control - so the fans could lose money - morally it's wrong, commercially we may not make many people PAY for the tickets (look at the row on here over the simple BUCKET collection!) and it may also be illegal but I have no idea

[dubai_phil]

I thought the administrator was sorting out the debts of Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC?

 

Why wouldn't Southampton Football Club Ltd continue to be run as a going concern at the moment?

 

Won't one of SLH's subsidiary companies generating additional revenue increase it's value as an asset to the PLC?

 

Back to square one

 

SLH had no money, it bounced cheques.

 

We had two home games 48,000 people with what 20,000 St's (no idea the number)

 

So say 24,000 matchday tickets sold at an average of 20 quid = 480k....

 

Now without ANY other things to pay for - like the electricity bill etc, how much do you think our monthly WAGES bill is?

 

Did we actually PAY the wages in March? or the Income tax bit?

 

Skacel & Euell alone is around 100k......

 

And on 25th April we have our last home game and our last source of income until the new season UNLESS we can sell ST's...

 

But we will still have to pay out the wages a few days later - and then puff - nothing coming in.....

 

Ain't no way SFC can keep running during the summer without the ST money OR the takeover

[alpine_saint]

Personally I think the Administrator should make a point of updating alpine_saint of his activities on a daily basis.

 

I appreciate that Mr Fry has a difficult enough task as it is and that most of his discussions are confidential in the interests of getting a buyer for the club and saving Saints from extinction but surely he realises that this counts for nothing if alpine_saint is not kept fully informed of his progress.

 

Someone please advise this individual that the whole purpose of this chatsite is for Saints fans and followers to express their opinions, with or without emotional content, on issues related to SFC......

[SNOWY]

Nothing is happening. Lots of enquiries but everybody is sitting on the fence and waiting.

I have it on the highest authority that unless 400k is raised by the Burnley game then we will not play that match, and the club will go to the wall.

A big celebrity kick about is being arranged at St Mary's (the end of next week I believe, announcement imminent) in a desperate attempt to raise funds and get us through to the end of the season.

The tone of the "Your Club Needs You" article on the OS appears to back up your post. It seems that we must have a full house for Burnley and people must by early. The whole article smacks of desperation.

[Window Cleaner]

The tone of the "Your Club Needs You" article on the OS appears to back up your post. It seems that we must have a full house for Burnley and people must by early. The whole article smacks of desperation.

 

We won't get a full house against Burnley, not without dropping the ticket prices.

[The Rover]

Someone please advise this individual that the whole purpose of this chatsite is for Saints fans and followers to express their opinions, with or without emotional content, on issues related to SFC......

 

And of course you think Mr Fry should tell you everything regardless whether it breaks any confidences and jeopardises everything that he's working towards. Do you really not understand how business negotiations work?

 

Is this adminstrator doing his f**king job properly ?

 

It really isn't a very grown up or helpful comment is it?

 

As far as I can see, you just like to whinge for the sake of it.

[John B]

And of course you think Mr Fry should tell you everything regardless whether it breaks any confidences and jeopardises everything that he's working towards. Do you really not understand how business negotiations work?

 

 

 

It really isn't a very grown up or helpful comment is it?

 

As far as I can see, you just like to whinge for the sake of it.

 

I think you are quite correct Rover

 

Alpine appears to be a complete and utter whinger

[eurosaint]

There have been a number of comments on this thread about the 'limbo' factor in negotiations which surprises me !

If I were looking to buy the club I would assume worst case scenario (ie. league 1, starting at minus 10 points) and bid accordingly!

If each of the main bidders does the same then Mr Fry only has to tie in a 'better case option' (ie. we stay up and/or have no points deduction!) and accept the best package thereafter !

Unlike Alpine, I am confident that he will do his damndest to work a deal for SFC and actually am not surprised that it is taking some time and that no official information has yet been released !!

[alpine_saint]

And of course you think Mr Fry should tell you everything regardless whether it breaks any confidences and jeopardises everything that he's working towards. Do you really not understand how business negotiations work?

 

 

Yep, I've really demanded that, havent I ???

 

I expressed frustration that nothing has been concluded. What is it that you have such problem understanding ?

[alpine_saint]

I think you are quite correct Rover

 

Alpine appears to be a complete and utter whinger

 

Rather a whinger than a Lowe Luvvie, like you...

[saint1977]

Personally, I'm reassured by the lack of leaks or Barry the Briefcases. It means we might actually have some realistic, feasible proposals on the table which are receiving due diligence. I've only just got back from overseas for the last few weeks so you guys are ahead of the game on the little info that I've had but Fry seems fairly optimistic to me.

[Frank's cousin]

He's the bastard love child of the pair.

 

Pigore? Eeylet?

 

almost correct, just leave out the love child bit and you get pretty close ;-)

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Well what about if we couldn't afford to pay stewards, police, bar suppliers, programme printers and all that sort of stuff.If we owe the Police Dept money and they aren't willing to give us any more tick we couldn't get the match policed and it might not be allowed to proceed.

Then the football club would go into CVA

[NickG]

Personally I think the Administrator should make a point of updating alpine_saint of his activities on a daily basis.

 

I appreciate that Mr Fry has a difficult enough task as it is and that most of his discussions are confidential in the interests of getting a buyer for the club and saving Saints from extinction but surely he realises that this counts for nothing if alpine_saint is not kept fully informed of his progress.

 

great post!

[.comsaint]

great post!

 

lol. Ditto!

[Micky]

Relax - no news is good news.....