crouch & mcmenemy

[miserableoldgit]

I know it is different but I said there was not such an outcry and this helped us go forward that was my point

I understand what you are saying but surely the reason that there wasn`t so much on outcry was because in the 70`s the difference between the First and Second Divisions was much less than it is now. Sure teams wanted to be in the top division but was`t perceived as a matter of life and death the way that is now.

[ottery st mary]

Ottery writes like David Mitchell, sometimes you think that there's a page or two missing, then you cotton on that that's the way of the yarn.

 

Did he make the spitfire this Mitchell boy.:smt082

 

Windows you know me just trying to get to the truth about Ruperts disciples.

Slely interest on my part for fellow posters and followers of Saints.

[John B]

Being relegated in 1974 did not result in an 80% reduction in club revenues. The two scenarios are totally incomorable.

 

Fans did not take relegation well in the same way I would not be all the chuffed if my missus shot me.

 

Rupert Lowe singularly oversaw 10 managers in 10 years and three in one season. These indisputable facts were a major (some would say THE major) contibutory factor in our relegation.

 

That relegation was the catalyst to our collapse.

 

In the first season when promotion was paramount, Rupert Lowe appointed Clive Woodward to work with Harry Redknapp - the equivalent of asking King Herod to baby-sit.

 

These are crass and stupid errors. Really, genuinely so stupid as to be comical.

 

For these reasons, I cannot see how anyone - anyone fair minded and with even the most basic understanding of football - can defend Rupert Lowe.

 

I am sure he is a nice guy who believes genuinely in his abilities and yes, probably did think he was doing good things for this club.

 

Life is full of them.

 

He is also (as proved at the last AGM) totally and utterly deluded and his yet more innovative plan for this year was a disaster.

 

What part of his plan for this season succeeded????????

 

Where is Jan Portvlieet now?

 

Rupert's modest successes (striking lucky with Gordon Strachan) are overwhelmed by a catastrophic malaise of failures which we could all list now.

 

He has gone. We must move on.

 

But to blame fans - as you originally did - for not supporting a regime that ripped apart this football club was in really, really poor taste.

 

I cannot be bothered to continue to discuss with you because you keep going off on tangents

 

I said one point at a time

[Nineteen Canteen]

I accepted it. I watch and pay to do so. However, YOU blame fans for not paying to watch tripe when Lowe insisted we were customers. Ergo, you are living in cuckoo land. How can you expect audience numbers to hold up when we had poor players losing football matches?

 

And if you think 10,000 were staying away because of Rupert, you're totally deluded. To blame them for our financial plight is so misguided as to be insulting.

 

And for your next trick?

 

Why did they stay away then and fans at Norwich and Derby not desert their clubs - in the latter case how many home games without a win? Over 20? Had they stopped their support maybe the club might not have been able to afford one of the best young managers in the country. Are Derby and Norwich bigger than us? What about Charlton or Sheff Weds the latter a 2 club city and a city with so many leisure facilities I'm surprised they don't average 17,000 a game.

 

I have never blamed the stay away fans in isolation but you are misguided if you think they are not as culpable as anything and anybody else since Lowe was ousted by Wilde and Crouch latching onto his promises. That is a shared responsibility apart from those who have continued to attend over the past 3 seasons as a ST holder or regular ticket buyer i.e 10 or more home games a season. Note I say continued if fans stopped attending games years ago for whatever reason or never attended that's fine every club has those fans and their opinions are just as welcome. The real problem are those who only attend the big games and act like they are 'real' supporters or worse pledge to only attend away games the very antipathy of a supporter.

 

Someone a while back summed up the difference between a fan and a supporter. A fan is someone who follows the club but for whatever reason cannot attend games a supporter is simply a fan who attend games.

 

A plastic is a fan who wants to pretend once or twice a season he is a supporter and a stay away who only supports the team away so as not to support our board, ergo our club is idiotic undeserving scum IMO.

[Legod Third Coming]

I cannot be bothered to continue to discuss with you because you keep going off on tangents

 

I said one point at a time

 

Lol - you can't argue mate because unlike John Rawling you cannot defend the indefensible.

[John B]

I understand what you are saying but surely the reason that there wasn`t so much on outcry was because in the 70`s the difference between the First and Second Divisions was much less than it is now. Sure teams wanted to be in the top division but was`t perceived as a matter of life and death the way that is now.

 

That is an interesting point I dont know as it never occurred to me.

 

 

Ipswich Reading and Crystal Palace fans I know seem more pragmatic but then they have not been in the top flight for as long as us

[Legod Third Coming]

Why did they stay away then and fans at Norwich and Derby not desert their clubs - in the latter case how many home games without a win? Over 20? Had they stopped their support maybe the club might not have been able to afford one of the best young managers in the country. Are Derby and Norwich bigger than us? What about Charlton or Sheff Weds the latter a 2 club city and a city with so many leisure facilities I'm surprised they don't average 17,000 a game.

 

I have never blamed the stay away fans in isolation but you are misguided if you think they are not as culpable as anything and anybody else since Lowe was ousted by Wilde and Crouch latching onto his promises. That is a shared responsibility apart from those who have continued to attend over the past 3 seasons as a ST holder or regular ticket buyer i.e 10 or more home games a season. Note I say continued if fans stopped attending games years ago for whatever reason or never attended that's fine every club has those fans and their opinions are just as welcome. The real problem are those who only attend the big games and act like they are 'real' supporters or worse pledge to only attend away games the very antipathy of a supporter.

 

Someone a while back summed up the difference between a fan and a supporter. A fan is someone who follows the club but for whatever reason cannot attend games a supporter is simply a fan who attend games.

 

A plastic is a fan who wants to pretend once or twice a season he is a supporter and a stay away who only supports the team away so as not to support our board, ergo our club is idiotic undeserving scum IMO.

 

Oh please. Do me a favour. Is it my fault for not buying a Range Rover that Jaguar Land Rover is in the sh!t as well?

 

Football fans are fickle - that clearly comes as a shock to you...

 

Rupert wanted customers. That's what he got.

 

And now he's complaining?

 

Too late Macduff, too late.

 

(Spoken as someone who has been to just as many home games this season as any season in the Premiership and before or since).

[John B]

Lol - you can't argue mate because unlike John Rawling you cannot defend the indefensible.

 

I can argue but you just rant and go of on tangents.

 

 

The main reason we got relegated was that the team was past it and we had no means to improve it in the short term.

[Legod Third Coming]

I can argue but you just rant and go of on tangents.

 

 

The main reason we got relegated was that the team was past it and we had no means to improve it in the short term.

 

You carry on believing that then. Just don't ask anyone about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy eh...

[Nineteen Canteen]

I am interested to see, after your first sentence, you went on to agree with the rest of my rubbish as you so politely put it...Still think you have no idea about the Saints or football. Mind you some of you old boys go to his tea parties at some games and then strangely disappeared when he was ousted for a couple of years.....Pot kettle etc from some of your rantings about Saints fans....

 

Tell me who you are 19 and I will varify your status as a ST holder or even if you go to games...Go on show us your money for the Saints survival....Has Rupert?

 

I am Nineteen Canteen and been around a long while. My money for Saints Survival? It was sitting in the bank along with the other ST holders as part of last season's March Madness offers and given over although we had the prospect of listening to more popular rhetoric about investment from Crouch and increasingly bizarre predictions about the play offs.

 

So why didn't more ST holders stump up in March when Lowe was a mere shareholder? Lowe returned and it seemed like a convienient excuse for many to confirm they would not renew and desert the club and how many are fund raising? Bit like forgetting to visit a terminally ill relative but making a big show of attending the funeral.

 

Many fans used Lowe as an excuse but I would venture they mistakingly believed we are a Premeirship club and like spoilt kids didn't like watching championship football which considering we have only been in the top flight 34 seasons out of our 124 year history is a tad delusionary.

[miserableoldgit]

I can argue but you just rant and go of on tangents.

 

 

The main reason we got relegated was that the team was past it and we had no means to improve it in the short term.

And Rupert said at the beginning of the relegation season that the squad was the strongest we ever had. Do you think that he really believed that or was he deluding himself?

[John B]

You carry on believing that then. Just don't ask anyone about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy eh...

 

How rude

 

You just appear to be a bit of a bully if people do not agree with you

[Legod Third Coming]

How rude

 

You just appear to be a bit of a bully if people do not agree with you

 

Yep, I assualt people with common sense. Some succumb, send my condolences to your family...

 

Lordy, lordy.

[ottery st mary]

I am Nineteen Canteen and been around a long while. My money for Saints Survival? It was sitting in the bank along with the other ST holders as part of last season's March Madness offers and given over although we had the prospect of listening to more popular rhetoric about investment from Crouch and increasingly bizarre predictions about the play offs.

 

So why didn't more ST holders stump up in March when Lowe was a mere shareholder? Lowe returned and it seemed like a convienient excuse for many to confirm they would not renew and desert the club and how many are fund raising? Bit like forgetting to visit a terminally ill relative but making a big show of attending the funeral.

 

Many fans used Lowe as an excuse but I would venture they mistakingly believed we are a Premeirship club and like spoilt kids didn't like watching championship football which considering we have only been in the top flight 34 seasons out of our 124 year history is a tad delusionary.

 

I am absolutely convinced that you are not a season ticket holder and you do not go to St Marys......If you do..YOU certainly do not give that impression in your many previous posts under your various disguises. Very strange....You're an armchair Rupert Bear wannabe.

Edited 8 April, 2009 by ottery st mary
spelling/english still improving

[John B]

And Rupert said at the beginning of the relegation season that the squad was the strongest we ever had. Do you think that he really believed that or was he deluding himself?

 

Delusion

 

The squad may have been the best if they were in their Prime

 

but surely Claus Dodd Le Suax Telfer were getting slower

 

and we had no commanding CB

 

 

How many of that Squad got in the Saints greatest Team.

[John B]

Yep, I assualt people with common sense. Some succumb, send my condolences to your family...

 

Lordy, lordy.

 

I am really pleased but l it is a shame you dont show much common sense on this forum

[Legod Third Coming]

I am Nineteen Canteen and been around a long while. My money for Saints Survival? It was sitting in the bank along with the other ST holders as part of last season's March Madness offers and given over although we had the prospect of listening to more popular rhetoric about investment from Crouch and increasingly bizarre predictions about the play offs.

 

So why didn't more ST holders stump up in March when Lowe was a mere shareholder? Lowe returned and it seemed like a convienient excuse for many to confirm they would not renew and desert the club and how many are fund raising? Bit like forgetting to visit a terminally ill relative but making a big show of attending the funeral.

 

Many fans used Lowe as an excuse but I would venture they mistakingly believed we are a Premeirship club and like spoilt kids didn't like watching championship football which considering we have only been in the top flight 34 seasons out of our 124 year history is a tad delusionary.

 

As someone who campaigned for people to attend, I agree in part with you, many fans stayed away for reasons of football and our porsity at it, not Rupert Lowe.

 

However, when dishing out blame what is your honest assessment of the share that should be attributed to the following:

 

Lowe

Crouch

Fans

 

Be honest.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Oh please. Do me a favour. Is it my fault for not buying a Range Rover that Jaguar Land Rover is in the sh!t as well?

 

Football fans are fickle - that clearly comes as a shock to you...

 

Rupert wanted customers. That's what he got.

 

And now he's complaining?

 

Too late Macduff, too late.

 

(Spoken as someone who has been to just as many home games this season as any season in the Premiership and before or since).

 

The point I am trying to make as have many others this season is that our fans unfortunately are more fickle than most. At least those clubs that we would consider our equal. Difficult to see any investor signing on the dotted line with so many of the club's fans unable or unwilling to match the new owner's investment with ticket purchases.

[saintwarwick]

I am absolutely convinced that you are not a season ticket holder and you do not go to St Marys......If you do..YOU certainly do not give that impression in your many previous posts under your various disguises. Very strange....You're an armchair Rupert Bear wannabe.

 

How would you know if he is or not?

[Legod Third Coming]

The point I am trying to make as have many others this season is that our fans unfortunately are more fickle than most. At least those clubs that we would consider our equal. Difficult to see any investor signing on the dotted line with so many of the club's fans unable or unwilling to match the new owner's investment with ticket purchases.

 

I think that's a red herring. You don't expect the ground of a failing football club, staring relegation in the face to be full. That's why it's called 'turnaround'.

 

Our fans may well be more fickle than some. Maybe that's because for ten years they were conditioned to act like customers.

 

And as Pavlov found out, eventually you get the responses you craved...

 

Don't kid yourself that Hillsborough is sold out every week, or Elland Road.

 

And if you can find something to do in Norwich other than watch football - bottle it, sell it, and buy the club!

[saintwarwick]

And Rupert said at the beginning of the relegation season that the squad was the strongest we ever had. Do you think that he really believed that or was he deluding himself?

 

Do you think Lowe would of said "we are sh1te and are going to get relegated"

[ottery st mary]

How would you know if he is or not?

 

 

A very knowledgeable little wise owl told me 19 is not a supporter and does not go to Saints games.

Wos it to you..Are you his keeper....We are having a chat...He dosen't go to games like many of Ruperts followers....You probably do as I can see from some of your footballing posts...but not 19.never a Saint.

 

Anyway this is 19 and me chatting...Strange interuption saintwarwick old boy.

[saintwarwick]

I think that's a red herring. You don't expect the ground of a failing football club, staring relegation in the face to be full. That's why it's called 'turnaround'.

 

Our fans may well be more fickle than some. Maybe that's because for ten years they were conditioned to act like customers.

 

And as Pavlov found out, eventually you get the responses you craved...

 

Don't kid yourself that Hillsborough is sold out every week, or Elland Road.

 

And if you can find something to do in Norwich other than watch football - bottle it, sell it, and buy the club!

 

Most clubs treat their fans as customers, they don't listen to fans about ticket prices, just announce sky high prices.

[Nineteen Canteen]

As someone who campaigned for people to attend, I agree in part with you, many fans stayed away for reasons of football and our porsity at it, not Rupert Lowe.

 

However, when dishing out blame what is your honest assessment of the share that should be attributed to the following:

 

Lowe

Crouch

Fans

 

Be honest.

 

OK I'll be honest but don't want to go back over the previous Lowe tenure because much good was done and bad decisions were also made. He was in part responsible for relegation but eventually with our situation it was only a matter of time before any Saints chairman would oversee our relegation from the Premiership.

 

So on that basis I would find them all equally culpable and would obviously throw in Wilde who was probably twice as at fault than the other 3 for promising much and delivering and effectively fleecing the club of it's reserves to fund what he said he could raise. Its bizarre because of his association with Lowe and desire to hate Lowe he slips under the radar.

 

Wilde 40%

Crouch 20%

Lowe 20%

Fans 20%

 

I would give my reasons for the other 3 but i think I've done that so many times now I'm beginning to bore myself.

 

The only people to have come out of this with any merit are the loyal supporters who have never stopped attending games no matter what our league poistion or performance levels and the back room staff. There are one or two players I could throw in as being culpable but as its a team game and generally i think the team have performed to their level of ability in difficult circumstances i guess that would be churlish. Ok take 1% off them all and attribute 4% to the likes of Euell, Skacel, Idiakez, Wright, Thomas, Powell, Wotton and to a lesser degree and for different reasons Surman and Lallana.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I am absolutely convinced that you are not a season ticket holder and you do not go to St Marys......If you do..YOU certainly do not give that impression in your many previous posts under your various disguises. Very strange....You're an armchair Rupert Bear wannabe.

 

You seem convinced that not supporting the club and letting it's future be placed in the hands of our creditors which happens to be a nervous bank and probably HMRC as a good thing. Kind of renders your convinced thinking as a touch worthless IMO.

[saintwarwick]

A very knowledgeable little wise owl told me 19 is not a supporter and does not go to Saints games.

Wos it to you..Are you his keeper....We are having a chat...He dosen't go to games like many of Ruperts followers....You probably do as I can see from some of your footballing posts...but not 19.never a Saint.

 

Anyway this is 19 and me chatting...Strange interuption saintwarwick old boy.

 

This is a fans forum, if you want a private chat use your pm

[miserableoldgit]

Do you think Lowe would of said "we are sh1te and are going to get relegated"

If he thought that, I would HAVE expected him, as Chairman, to have taken measures to make that outcome less likely. If he genuinely thought that we had our strongest squad ever, then it makes his position as football guru untenable.

[Legod Third Coming]

OK I'll be honest but don't want to go back over the previous Lowe tenure because much good was done and bad decisions were also made. He was in part responsible for relegation but eventually with our situation it was only a matter of time before any Saints chairman would oversee our relegation from the Premiership.

 

So on that basis I would find them all equally culpable and would obviously throw in Wilde who was probably twice as at fault than the other 3 for promising much and delivering and effectively fleecing the club of it's reserves to fund what he said he could raise. Its bizarre because of his association with Lowe and desire to hate Lowe he slips under the radar.

 

Wilde 40%

Crouch 20%

Lowe 20%

Fans 20%

 

I would give my reasons for the other 3 but i think I've done that so many times now I'm beginning to bore myself.

 

The only people to have come out of this with any merit are the loyal supporters who have never stopped attending games no matter what our league poistion or performance levels and the back room staff. There are one or two players I could throw in as being culpable but as its a team game and generally i think the team have performed to their level of ability in difficult circumstances i guess that would be churlish. Ok take 1% off them all and attribute 4% to the likes of Euell, Skacel, Idiakez, Wright, Thomas, Powell, Wotton and to a lesser degree and for different reasons Surman and Lallana.

 

Unlike others I suspect, I respect your honesty but to attribute the same level of culpability to fans as to the Chairman I find wholly unjustifiable.

 

I agree on your assessment of Wilde and with Crouch I find his only redeeming quality that he has placed his own money into the club which is something that can only also be said of the fans.

 

I don't agree that it was a 'matter of time' before we were relegated, however. I think this shows a real lack (not of ambition) but of essetial business thinking and planning. I guarantee that Everton, Aston Villa, West Ham and a host of other 'mid-size' clubs do not think like this. It is the reason that those clubs sought and found external finance. Something we did not do.

[ottery st mary]

This is a fans forum, if you want a private chat use your pm

 

OK MATEY..Leave it to you and you're fellow Rupert dancing troupe.

luv to 19 and john :^o

[saintwarwick]

OK MATEY..Leave it to you and you're fellow Rupert dancing troupe.

luv to 19 and john :^o

 

Not my fellow lowe dancing troupe, just interested to know how you seem to know who is a season ticket holder or not

[Nineteen Canteen]

A very knowledgeable little wise owl told me 19 is not a supporter and does not go to Saints games.

Wos it to you..Are you his keeper....We are having a chat...He dosen't go to games like many of Ruperts followers....You probably do as I can see from some of your footballing posts...but not 19.never a Saint.

 

Anyway this is 19 and me chatting...Strange interuption saintwarwick old boy.

 

I'd love to know the name of your owl because if he is the source of all your knowledge you need a new source. Seek and ye shall find.

[John B]

Unlike others I suspect, I respect your honesty but to attribute the same level of culpability to fans as to the Chairman I find wholly unjustifiable.

 

I agree on your assessment of Wilde and with Crouch I find his only redeeming quality that he has placed his own money into the club which is something that can only also be said of the fans.

 

I don't agree that it was a 'matter of time' before we were relegated, however. I think this shows a real lack (not of ambition) but of essetial business thinking and planning. I guarantee that Everton, Aston Villa, West Ham and a host of other 'mid-size' clubs do not think like this. It is the reason that those clubs sought and found external finance. Something we did not do.

 

 

Everton and Aston Villa are large clubs having won major domestic and European Honours in fact Everton have never been relegated unlike West Ham who have been relegated more than once in last twenty or so years.

 

We were a small club with little money to throw at players.

 

I remember listening to an interview with Lawrie Mac where he said that the club's ambition was to stay in the Premiership

Edited 8 April, 2009 by John B

[ottery st mary]

Not my fellow lowe dancing troupe, just interested to know how you seem to know who is a season ticket holder or not

 

saintwarwick...must go to work now...but to answer your question....19 is not

nor is john and slowly the truth comes out re a few other Ruperts team never having been to a game...Most of their posts give it away....But I will leave the subject alone or people will get upset and to be fair as you know I have avoided games at St Marys this season...So in truth no better than Ruperts chorus girls on here:p

 

Only joking about your dancing ability....How do I know that....Soldiers always have three left feet..Sgt Major.

Edited 8 April, 2009 by ottery st mary
left out three sorry

[ST Randy]

I am absolutely convinced that you are not a season ticket holder and you do not go to St Marys......If you do..YOU certainly do not give that impression in your many previous posts under your various disguises. Very strange....You're an armchair Rupert Bear wannabe.

 

 

It is patently obvious that Nineteen Canteen is not a Saints fan of many years standing as he likes to claim.

 

Any Saints fan of his vintage would never talk about McMenemy the way that he does. He has no idea of what it means to be a saints supporter - if he did he would not continuously go on and on and on slagging off the fans who have had to endure such dross this season.

 

I wonder if he ever found out what Justin Fashanu is doing these days.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Unlike others I suspect, I respect your honesty but to attribute the same level of culpability to fans as to the Chairman I find wholly unjustifiable.

 

I agree on your assessment of Wilde and with Crouch I find his only redeeming quality that he has placed his own money into the club which is something that can only also be said of the fans.

 

I don't agree that it was a 'matter of time' before we were relegated, however. I think this shows a real lack (not of ambition) but of essetial business thinking and planning. I guarantee that Everton, Aston Villa, West Ham and a host of other 'mid-size' clubs do not think like this. It is the reason that those clubs sought and found external finance. Something we did not do.

 

That's where we differ in assessing who our peer group is. I certainly wouldn't include Everton, Villa or West Ham who all have more religious like followings and the fact you can buy their shirts in high street shops supports my feeling they have not only enjoy very strong local support but more wider support as well. I agree we should have sought further finance but personally I always liked the fact we were a smaller club with a strong pedigree punching above our weight without an obvious benefactor and not with a weak pedigree like Blackburn, Fulham, Portsmouth and Wigan for example.

 

To use horse race parlance I would class us as a Group 2 club, based on pedigree, expectation and size with the likes of Sunderland, Middlesborough, Bolton, WBA, Wolves, Birmingham, Derby, Ipswich, Coventry, Charlton, Leeds, Leicester and no doubt a few more.

 

Teams like Reading, Hull, Stoke etc defy classification because they don't ahve any redeemimg qualities and hopefully 1 day they will return where they came from.

[ottery st mary]

I'd love to know the name of your owl because if he is the source of all your knowledge you need a new source. Seek and ye shall find.

 

19 luv u and leave u...you are a real hoot.:smt082

[John B]

It is patently obvious that Nineteen Canteen is not a Saints fan of many years standing as he likes to claim.

 

Any Saints fan of his vintage would never talk about McMenemy the way that he does. He has no idea of what it means to be a saints supporter - if he did he would not continuously go on and on and on slagging off the fans who have had to endure such dross this season.

 

I wonder if he ever found out what Justin Fashanu is doing these days.

 

I remember seeing Justin play for the Saints when was that?

 

 

Was he on loan ?

 

 

I remember he was not very good

[Viking Warrior]

Wrong thread again

[Nineteen Canteen]

Not my fellow lowe dancing troupe, just interested to know how you seem to know who is a season ticket holder or not

 

Warwick it suits his agenda so he doesn't have to think about responding coherently to an alternative argument. Its quite obvious the only games he attends is either Bristol C or Plymouth away and perhaps could take a leaf out of your book and attend home games courtesy of a 200mile round trip.

[ottery st mary]

It is patently obvious that Nineteen Canteen is not a Saints fan of many years standing as he likes to claim.

 

Any Saints fan of his vintage would never talk about McMenemy the way that he does. He has no idea of what it means to be a saints supporter - if he did he would not continuously go on and on and on slagging off the fans who have had to endure such dross this season.

 

I wonder if he ever found out what Justin Fashanu is doing these days.

 

You will have to tell him about his closeness to another set of disciples.

[Wes Tender]

I am Nineteen Canteen and been around a long while. My money for Saints Survival? It was sitting in the bank along with the other ST holders as part of last season's March Madness offers and given over although we had the prospect of listening to more popular rhetoric about investment from Crouch and increasingly bizarre predictions about the play offs.

 

So why didn't more ST holders stump up in March when Lowe was a mere shareholder? Lowe returned and it seemed like a convienient excuse for many to confirm they would not renew and desert the club and how many are fund raising? Bit like forgetting to visit a terminally ill relative but making a big show of attending the funeral.

 

Many fans used Lowe as an excuse but I would venture they mistakingly believed we are a Premeirship club and like spoilt kids didn't like watching championship football which considering we have only been in the top flight 34 seasons out of our 124 year history is a tad delusionary.

 

Maybe there were many like me who caught a whiff of the possibility of Lowe's return, especially in conjunction with the Quisling and wanted to see whether it came to pass before committing to a couple of STs. At the time it seemed unlikely that Lowe would get shot of Pearson, who had a 90% popularity rating with the fans. Lowe would have been on a hiding to nothing keeping him on and if he had visibly falied by the end of say 15 games, he could have fired him and blamed Crouch. Had Pearson been showing signs of success, Lowe could have claimed credit for having faith in him against his better judgement. When Lowe returned and Pearson was dismissed, that justified my wait to get STs and I boycotted them. However, as per the time before when I had done the same thing after relegation, I continued to attend every home match with my son.

 

When it became clear that under Poortvliet we were incapable of producing home wins with the kids and that the quality strikers were loaned out, the time eventually arrived when I thought that enough was enough and I was not going to put any more money into the club while Lowe and the Quisling remained in charge. Seemingly, many others had acted in a similar vein and eventually that shortfall of people through the turnstiles was what did for us.

 

If anybody wants to call me names and suggest that those like me are culpable for our current situation, then go ahead. I don't care a toss, as I am satisfied that had the stupid and bizarre experiment not taken place and we had stayed with Pearson instead of letting petty ego matters interfere with good sense, we might have avoided this situation. Since Lowe has gone, I have been back, made a donation, will renew my STs for next season regardless of which division we are in and generally rejoice that we may just have ridded the club of those charlatans. If any of them come back in charge, all bets are off and I'll not return until they are gone again. Simple really.

[ottery st mary]

Warwick it suits his agenda so he doesn't have to think about responding coherently to an alternative argument. Its quite obvious the only games he attends is either Bristol C or Plymouth away and perhaps could take a leaf out of your book and attend home games courtesy of a 200mile round trip.

 

Not forgetting Exeter....Easy trip next season to cheer on Saints.

[Tamesaint]

Maybe there were many like me who caught a whiff of the possibility of Lowe's return, especially in conjunction with the Quisling and wanted to see whether it came to pass before committing to a couple of STs. At the time it seemed unlikely that Lowe would get shot of Pearson, who had a 90% popularity rating with the fans. Lowe would have been on a hiding to nothing keeping him on and if he had visibly falied by the end of say 15 games, he could have fired him and blamed Crouch. Had Pearson been showing signs of success, Lowe could have claimed credit for having faith in him against his better judgement. When Lowe returned and Pearson was dismissed, that justified my wait to get STs and I boycotted them. However, as per the time before when I had done the same thing after relegation, I continued to attend every home match with my son.

 

When it became clear that under Poortvliet we were incapable of producing home wins with the kids and that the quality strikers were loaned out, the time eventually arrived when I thought that enough was enough and I was not going to put any more money into the club while Lowe and the Quisling remained in charge. Seemingly, many others had acted in a similar vein and eventually that shortfall of people through the turnstiles was what did for us.

 

If anybody wants to call me names and suggest that those like me are culpable for our current situation, then go ahead. I don't care a toss, as I am satisfied that had the stupid and bizarre experiment not taken place and we had stayed with Pearson instead of letting petty ego matters interfere with good sense, we might have avoided this situation. Since Lowe has gone, I have been back, made a donation, will renew my STs for next season regardless of which division we are in and generally rejoice that we may just have ridded the club of those charlatans. If any of them come back in charge, all bets are off and I'll not return until they are gone again. Simple really.

 

 

What an excellent post.

 

Unlike you, I have still gone to St Marys. But I fully respect and understand your decision. Nice to know that you will be back now that Lowe and the Quisling are gone.

[Tamesaint]

saintwarwick...must go to work now...but to answer your question....19 is not

nor is john and slowly the truth comes out re a few other Ruperts team never having been to a game...Most of their posts give it away.....

 

I bet Nineteen Canteen doesn't know what the chocolate boxes were.

[ottery st mary]

Warwick it suits his agenda so he doesn't have to think about responding coherently to an alternative argument. Its quite obvious the only games he attends is either Bristol C or Plymouth away and perhaps could take a leaf out of your book and attend home games courtesy of a 200mile round trip.

 

As we all know 19 good old saintwarwick supports Saints and attends games...YOU do not old boy......Enough of this nonsense...Off to work to stalk you and nick I have been to Bellemoor and Hounsdown but I am not sure:D

[Legod Third Coming]

That's where we differ in assessing who our peer group is. I certainly wouldn't include Everton, Villa or West Ham who all have more religious like followings and the fact you can buy their shirts in high street shops supports my feeling they have not only enjoy very strong local support but more wider support as well. I agree we should have sought further finance but personally I always liked the fact we were a smaller club with a strong pedigree punching above our weight without an obvious benefactor and not with a weak pedigree like Blackburn, Fulham, Portsmouth and Wigan for example.

 

To use horse race parlance I would class us as a Group 2 club, based on pedigree, expectation and size with the likes of Sunderland, Middlesborough, Bolton, WBA, Wolves, Birmingham, Derby, Ipswich, Coventry, Charlton, Leeds, Leicester and no doubt a few more.

 

Teams like Reading, Hull, Stoke etc defy classification because they don't ahve any redeemimg qualities and hopefully 1 day they will return where they came from.

 

I don't think you can class us (with 27 years unabridged top flight satus) in the same category as the those who flitted regularly between the top two divisions as all those clubs you listed did.

 

We had the advantage of being among the Premiership's founders and constant members - none of those listed could boast the same.

 

And while membership of a club gives you no divine right to remain there, it should have indicated the requirements, which we singularly ignored - that of consistency of club management and the need for external investment.

 

Put it this way. Five years ago we were no less an attractive investment than any of a host of clubs who sought and found such money.

 

Our gates in 2002-2003 would have been higher than Villa's - of that I am sure. Certanly higher than West Ham and not far behind Everton. The fact these clubs might once have considered themselves 'powerhouses' is rather irrelevant - Norton and BSA once ruled the road!

[Gingeletiss]

You obviously live in a fantasy world if the club has to reduce costs in order to reduce the overdraft the team is not going to be very good and needs all the support it can get boycotting St Mary's obviously does not help.

 

Lowe was involved in getting us relegated of course but it is not solely him who has decimated the club as you put it.

 

He was more than 'involved' he was the dictator, the one who must not be crossed........you cannot avoid the facts, but alas, you and his other cheer leaders, appear to want to do just that.

 

I am sorry that I appear sanctimonious but I the hatred of Lowe has seriously damaged the club

 

What about his sheer contempt for the fans, the customer base

and as I have said I dont care who runs the club and who manages the team .

 

It surely is a point view that I have come to after analysing all the facts

 

John B....I have no axe to grind regarding your posts, but strongly feel, that you may wish to analyse the facts a bit more,IMHO.

[Gingeletiss]

Someone a while back summed up the difference between a fan and a supporter. A fan is someone who follows the club but for whatever reason cannot attend games a supporter is simply a fan who attend games.

 

 

Deleted most of you cr*p......however!!. I was always taught that a fan was short for fanatic, and were the most diehard fans...then you have supporters, then followers.

[OldNick]

Deleted most of you cr*p......however!!. I was always taught that a fan was short for fanatic, and were the most diehard fans...then you have supporters, then followers.

Ginge you dont happoen to drive a jag/daimler do you?

it s just I thought I may have seen you yesterday

[Frank's cousin]

Seems there are several arguments here.... What gets me as is why we seem so polarised about teh 'attendence thing' as if you cant ahve an opinion on the impact of the falling gate without it labelling you as a follower of one side or another... the two are NOT linked you can be gald Lowe has gone and still acknowledge that our support has let us down this season.

 

We complain constantly that Lowe had a huge ego, but do not football fans both individually and collectively suffer the same thing? We are always going on about sh!te like how big the club is, how good the support is at the same time as saying its all superiour to our rivals- this odd needs to justify our relative position.... so the very moment someone dares to criticise these aspects of the club and some of you cant handle it - its brusining egos, thats all.

 

It is a fact which is unarguable that at some other clubs who have had worse chairman, worse results and multiple relegations with ridiculous ticket prices, have still maintained a far higher percentage of their top flight fan base when relegated and in the sh1te, than we did. As a direct result of this, IT has impacted on the revenue - and outside teh Prem the gate is the BIGGEST SINGLE CONTRIBUTER to the very revenues that fund the team - so without doubt the falling attendence DID play a major part in the administration - we may not like being accused of our part in it but its true none the less.

 

As to reasons for this, yes there were probably a few hundred that genuinely felt that staying away was thier only way to protest, BUt its not rocket science to see that the vast majority, simply dont want to pay money to watch poor football - thats by itself is fair enough, its logical that we want to be entertained when spending good money, but I thought being a supporter was about more than that? I thought a suporter base showed its TRUE colours when things were at their worst - not when its gouing well... it is easy afterall to get 30,000 to a cup final. All that this has highlighted is that we have a smaller supporterbase than we liked to believe when in the prem when we were lauding it over the skates.... That does not bother me, but we cant ahve it both ways - make bold statements about the 'size' of our club when things are going well, and then blame someone else for the shrinking numbers when things are dire.

 

Finally, on the issue of the last relegation in 74 - you simply cant equate the two - all we really suffered then was brusied egos, not a loss of 30mil, the majority of which was funding prem player contracts... also in those days it should have been alot easier for a smaller club like us to stay up - as the gates were still shared and clubs attracted players by relationships not by what you could afford to pay them as there was not much difference between what the players got payed either at a club or between clubs - the premiership may have provided untold riches ...to players and agents.... but its made it 100x more difficult for the smaller clubs to survive, especially as we had previously already lost out as the shared gate was abandoned.

 

Had Lawrie and Ted got us relegated in todays terms, the backlash would have been alot worse and their reputations would have been considerably diminished - For Lowe, his own attitude made our feelings towards him even worse despite many probably acknowledgeing ..begrdgingly in most cases, that its was not all entirly down to one or two decisions.