crouch & mcmenemy

[Legod Third Coming]

This is a simple argument.

 

How much did Lowe put into the club and how much Crouch?

 

As for McMenemy... find me a manager who has not quit or been given the Spanish archer...

 

He still did more as manager of this club than any man since.

[Lets B Avenue]

Was it just me or did Leon sound a bit ****ed when he was giving his speech on Saturday?

 

Had a hint of the Delias about it if you ask me...

 

Let's be 'aving you!

 

Hello. Someone call?

[Horley CTFC Saint]

leon crouch cant beleive he was on pitch asking us fans to donate when is he gonna cough up the £2m he promised a while back am not a lowe luvvie but he was right when he said crouch wasted money when he was chairman . dont get me wrong lowe is to blame for a lot but so is crouch.

 

also made me laugh mcmenemy begging on the pitch

now here is a man that walked out TWICE ON SAINTS

think he also made a fortune out of the reverse takeover in shares

 

and they want fans like us to bail them out . we earn a pittance compared to these guys. i have supported this club for 40 years and will continue to do so with season tickets and merchandise and they want more

 

Must admit I was wondring about this too.

 

Does anyone have an 'idiots guide' to when all the main financial misdemeaners took place and who was actually in charge at the time? Lowe has always struck me as a total skinflint and it seems a slightly inconceivable to me that he would have instigated players salaries at 80% of turnover - did this occur when Crouch or Wilde was in control?

 

Someone out there should have a good understanding of the chronology and perhaps its time for this to be set straight for all of us not ITK

[Gingeletiss]

If he called for fans to unite what would the responce to that be? 'He must be only after something in it for him'

Best he does not at it will only help the divisions.

 

Well nickh........there should be no division now, as he's gone. That said, you and the rest of his famous five fan club, refuse to let him go, thus we remain 'divided'....

[Gingeletiss]

Hello. Someone call?

 

Lol......

[John B]

Must admit I was wondring about this too.

 

Does anyone have an 'idiots guide' to when all the main financial misdemeaners took place and who was actually in charge at the time? Lowe has always struck me as a total skinflint and it seems a slightly inconceivable to me that he would have instigated players salaries at 80% of turnover - did this occur when Crouch or Wilde was in control?

 

Someone out there should have a good understanding of the chronology and perhaps its time for this to be set straight for all of us not ITK

 

Yes it was spent between 2006 and 2008 when Lowe was not around the Wilde disappeared looking for investment but Crouch was there but had little influence as the Execs in charge probably thought him a loose cannon as he was voted off the board.

 

But of course it is Lowe's fault

[Give it to Ron]

Yes it was spent between 2006 and 2008 when Lowe was not around the Wilde disappeared looking for investment but Crouch was there but had little influence as the Execs in charge probably thought him a loose cannon as he was voted off the board.

 

But of course it is Lowe's fault

 

Now that is one of the greatest re-writes in history!!!

Wilde disappeared looking for investment..was he on Shergar by any chance or was he voted off by the people he appointed as they sussed him out....brilliant.

You missed your vocation JohnB you should be a defence lawyer.

 

The 80% salary was a short period of time...read the AGM notes and Dave Jones quotes.

[yorkiesaint]

all you tottonions- GET OUT if you haven't already! wake up and realise you live in the pit of the earth..! you only live once and don't spend it in the biggest god darn forsaken hole on the whole south coast. I have the regular misfortune of having to go back and visit my family there. (can you see i'm still not over it).

[Gingeletiss]

all you tottonions- GET OUT if you haven't already! wake up and realise you live in the pit of the earth..! you only live once and don't spend it in the biggest god darn forsaken hole on the whole south coast. I have the regular misfortune of having to go back and visit my family there. (can you see i'm still not over it).

 

Fat town......as I call it. Once I win the lottery, I'll be gone from here;)

[OldNick]

Well nickh........there should be no division now, as he's gone. That said, you and the rest of his famous five fan club, refuse to let him go, thus we remain 'divided'....

Until that fans stop blaming him for everything then you will have people putting up the different view.

[OldNick]

Fat town......as I call it. Once I win the lottery, I'll be gone from here;)

I tell you what, Ill give you the tenner.

[OldNick]

all you tottonions- GET OUT if you haven't already! wake up and realise you live in the pit of the earth..! you only live once and don't spend it in the biggest god darn forsaken hole on the whole south coast. I have the regular misfortune of having to go back and visit my family there. (can you see i'm still not over it).

i only lived there for a short period before moving away. It was Rushington and so Mayfair compared to the rest of Totton

[Gingeletiss]

Until that fans stop blaming him for everything then you will have people putting up the different view.

 

 

What!!!!!!!!!!..........for ever:(, you're twisted, either that, or a masochist;). Personally, I don't blame him for everything, just most things, cr*p football, rainy day's, warm beer, dog cr*p on the pavements etc etc

[OldNick]

What!!!!!!!!!!..........for ever:(, you're twisted, either that, or a masochist;). Personally, I don't blame him for everything, just most things, cr*p football, rainy day's, warm beer, dog cr*p on the pavements etc etc

Thats the stuff Ginge Lol

[WokingSaint]

Well said Chuz! More info on why he left us:-

First Time - Having taken Saints to Runners Up in Div 1 and FA Cup Semi Final, he wanted to move on and up from there. The Chairman then, Alan Woodford, said there was no more money available. LM decided, and stated, that he could not do any more and left in frustration really.

Second Time - Having been instrumental in bringing Graeme Souness to the Club, he felt he had to resign when Souness did over Lowe's broken promise to invest in the Team.

All of that is not quite what is intimated by 'walking out on us twice'!

[John Smith]

If he called for fans to unite what would the responce to that be? 'He must be only after something in it for him'

Best he does not at it will only help the divisions.

 

Not asking for him to call for unity at all, just to be the fan 'he' claims to be. Maybe buy a box for the remaining games, maybe donate some of that payoff money he got last time, maybe donate some of his wages for 2 days a week work!

 

He's taken and taken from this club in the guise of a supporter, time he put something back, don't you think?

[supaimpy_returns]

Must admit I was wondring about this too.

 

Does anyone have an 'idiots guide' to when all the main financial misdemeaners took place and who was actually in charge at the time? Lowe has always struck me as a total skinflint and it seems a slightly inconceivable to me that he would have instigated players salaries at 80% of turnover - did this occur when Crouch or Wilde was in control?

 

Someone out there should have a good understanding of the chronology and perhaps its time for this to be set straight for all of us not ITK

 

 

Well as crouch was only in charge as chairman for one transfer window , and he moved Rasiak and Scakel out on loan at that point, but did bring in Wright,perry and Lucetti oh and Pericard I'd say that leaves two culprits, one who got himself in too deep and walked away only to run with a new best friend.

 

I also wonder why Wilde found it necessary to resign, doesn't SFC operate seperately to SLH?

[ooohTerryHurlock]

the truth is out there and some people dont like it

these are my opinions which dont mean to say i have to be abused

 

Dont post ****e then!

 

Leon showed his true character when he stumped up the cash to get the TBS cluster ****ed sorted out - another mess overseen by RL - Ted Bates was the heart and soul (or do you have some perverse opinion on this) of this club and I am sure he is turning in his grave at the moment at what is going on - despite a life times service Lowe sent round the begging buckets to raise cash for the original disgrace of a statue.

 

Also Crouch showed his true metal when he honoured his pledge the sophies gift campaign whilst RL was scoring cheap shots against deposed boards. With regard to LM - he went back to his native north east to manage a club that he percieved could be a massive powerhouse - he had taken us to a place no one thought was possible - in the top 6 or 7 club sides in the english league. The second time he walked out was over a disagreement with RL - so what is your problem with him.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Crouch has admitted that he made mistakes, was on the radio last night asking people to look forwards not back and admitted that he gave 50k to help us out. Fair play to the bloke.

 

Crouch is very good at admitting how much he has given. Did the interviewer attach thumb screws to extract this loathsome act of self-publication, what a great fan he is. To be fair £50k to Crouch is no different than a mere mortal dropping a score anonomously in a bucket on the way to the game. The only difference one will not mention it again and forego a programme, burger, pint or whatever whilst the other has to admit on the radio he contributed £50k to help rescue/resurrect instead of what he could have done to save the club in the first place.

 

Seems to me Crouch only makes offers of real worth (£2m) when he adds conditions that he knows others cannot match. He must be mistaken in his belief that this shows him to be a real fan who is totally committed to the club. Of course the real hero would be the man who gave it anonomously without conditions but where is the self-promotion in that? As for McMenemy? What can you say? He has used this club as a meal ticket since his misguided adventure to the North East and I personally am sick of him being wheeled out as the 'godfather' of Saints. Someone who knows whatt is good for the club when all he has done since his management days is take, take and take.

 

Both Crouch and McMenemy could learn a lesson in magnamitity from Ted Bates and if only one good thing comes out of administration it must be to disfranchise these two self-adulating publicists from Southampton FC for good.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Dont post ****e then!

 

Leon showed his true character when he stumped up the cash to get the TBS cluster ****ed sorted out - another mess overseen by RL - Ted Bates was the heart and soul (or do you have some perverse opinion on this) of this club and I am sure he is turning in his grave at the moment at what is going on - despite a life times service Lowe sent round the begging buckets to raise cash for the original disgrace of a statue.

 

Also Crouch showed his true metal when he honoured his pledge the sophies gift campaign whilst RL was scoring cheap shots against deposed boards. With regard to LM - he went back to his native north east to manage a club that he percieved could be a massive powerhouse - he had taken us to a place no one thought was possible - in the top 6 or 7 club sides in the english league. The second time he walked out was over a disagreement with RL - so what is your problem with him.

 

OTH, ever stop and ask yourself how we all know so much about Crouch's donations? Is it because he tell's us? The man is a parasite.

Edited 8 April, 2009 by Nineteen Canteen

[miserableoldgit]

Crouch is very good at admitting how much he has given. Did the interviewer attach thumb screws to extract this loathsome act of self-publication, what a great fan he is. To be fair £50k to Crouch is no different than a mere mortal dropping a score anonomously in a bucket on the way to the game. The only difference one will not mention it again and forego a programme, burger, pint or whatever whilst the other has to admit on the radio he contributed £50k to help rescue/resurrect instead of what he could have done to save the club in the first place.

 

Seems to me Crouch only makes offers of real worth (£2m) when he adds conditions that he knows others cannot match. He must be mistaken in his belief that this shows him to be a real fan who is totally committed to the club. Of course the real hero would be the man who gave it anonomously without conditions but where is the self-promotion in that? As for McMenemy? What can you say? He has used this club as a meal ticket since his misguided adventure to the North East and I personally am sick of him being wheeled out as the 'godfather' of Saints. Someone who knows whatt is good for the club when all he has done since his management days is take, take and take.

 

Both Crouch and McMenemy could learn a lesson in magnamitity from Ted Bates and if only one good thing comes out of administration it must be to disfranchise these two self-adulating publicists from Southampton FC for good.

 

Firstly, I was listening to the interview and if I remember it correctly, it was Stewart Dennis who told a caller that Crouch had put £50,000 into the fund. Crouch didn`t mention at any time any money that he had put into the club apart from saying that he had lost a lot of money (rumoured £1.9M) but that that didn`t matter - it was all about saving Saints.

 

Secondly, you conveniently forget what McMenemy did for this club during his 12 years as Manager before he left for Sunderland. 3 Wembley appearances (inc FA Cup win), runners up spot in old Div One, signing European Player of the Year etc. He gave us things beyond our wildest dreams and as far as I am concerned deserves better than the vitriol that some on here aim at him.

 

Thirdly, was Crouches £2m offer before or after he lost his (rumoured) £1.9M. Who paid for the Ted Bates statue after the original debacle?

 

Some on here seem very bitter and twisted. So much so that they need Pantomime villains - be it Crouch and McMenemy or Lowe and Wilde. The reasons for our demise are many and the blame lies with everyone concerned. It`s just the proportion of blame attached to each party that is debatable.

Edited 8 April, 2009 by miserableoldgit

[St Landrew]

Oh, you mean the same man that took us to Wembley 3 times (including our only ever FA Cup win), that took us to runners-up position the the old First Division, that signed the then European Footballer of the Year (Kevin Keegan), that signed the likes of Peter Osgood, Peter Shilton, Dave Watson, Alan Ball, Charlie George etc. You don`t remember those things I suspect but you do remember somebody telling you that he "walked out TWICE ON SAINTS"

 

At last someone that remembers all the good things as well and not conveniently just the bad!

 

Don't worry, there's plenty of fans out there with long memories. Lawrie McMenemy may not be the perfect person [who is..?], but he was certainly a heck of a manager for Saints. Remember, he was voted our top manager, over Ted Bates, in our recent Saints Greatest XI poll. He received brickbats in his early days at Saints for relegating the club when he was finding his feet, under Ted's guidance, I might add. He then proceeded to change the club's profile from alsoran to big hitter. Everything he did at the club was aimed to raise its status. Fans nowadays probably don't realise how minnow-like Saints were considered back in the 1960/70's. But within 5 seasons, Saints were becoming a big draw, and backing it up with success, not just show.

 

I consider myself incredibly lucky to have been following Saints through that period, and it's something I'll always thank LM for. After his brilliant contribution to the club's history, he could have walked out on Saints half a dozen times for all I care.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Lawrie McMenemy joined us in 1973 and left in 1985. Having been privileged to see some of the football played in that era, I think it is fair to say that without a doubt Lawrie McMenemy put us on the footballing map. He had plenty of opportunities to leave us during his tenure as manager, but did not. Read his Diary of a Season book if you want to know more.

 

Even in the 70s and 80s, 12 years at a club was exceptional. If Gordon Strachan is treated like a hero for what he did for Saints, Lawrie should probably be sainted. Yes he did leave but only after a long and successful tenure: making us one of the most attractive and well respected clubs in the country.

 

He returned to become Director of Football under Alan Ball, Dave Merrington and Graham Souness. He resigned when Souness resigned. Whatever his reasons (at the time it was stated as "differences with the new board", led by Rupert Lowe) clearly he decided to act as he did, resigning from a paid position on a matter of principle - right or wrong.

 

I would also point out that the sums that he is alleged to have earned as an ambassador to the club during the Wilde/Execs/Crouch era have not to my knowledge ever been in the public arena. I do know that when Mike Richards intimated that he had been earning £60,000 at the AGM in 2007, David Jones categorically denied that it was anything like that figure.

 

Comments get bandied about on this site, either out of mischief making or ignorance, but I find the character assassinations of McMenemy particularly galling, since it is obvious he cares a great deal for the club and does not like to see it in its current state.

 

Regardless of the politics and mud slinging I will always be grateful to Lawrie for the part he played in making the club what it was at its peak. He may not be to everyone's tastes but his positive place in Saints' history is assured

Well said - Lawrie is a Saints legend for those of us who remember the good old days and don't chose to rewrite history for their own aims

[Wes Tender]

Crouch is very good at admitting how much he has given. Did the interviewer attach thumb screws to extract this loathsome act of self-publication, what a great fan he is. To be fair £50k to Crouch is no different than a mere mortal dropping a score anonomously in a bucket on the way to the game. The only difference one will not mention it again and forego a programme, burger, pint or whatever whilst the other has to admit on the radio he contributed £50k to help rescue/resurrect instead of what he could have done to save the club in the first place.

 

Seems to me Crouch only makes offers of real worth (£2m) when he adds conditions that he knows others cannot match. He must be mistaken in his belief that this shows him to be a real fan who is totally committed to the club. Of course the real hero would be the man who gave it anonomously without conditions but where is the self-promotion in that? As for McMenemy? What can you say? He has used this club as a meal ticket since his misguided adventure to the North East and I personally am sick of him being wheeled out as the 'godfather' of Saints. Someone who knows whatt is good for the club when all he has done since his management days is take, take and take.

 

Both Crouch and McMenemy could learn a lesson in magnamitity from Ted Bates and if only one good thing comes out of administration it must be to disfranchise these two self-adulating publicists from Southampton FC for good.

 

Nineteen, you're obviously hurting that the charlatans that you admired so much have gone. Who knows, you might even have been one of them yourself, or otherwise an associate or confederate of theirs in some way or other. For myself, I've waited over a decade for the time to come when we would be rid of these people from the old board and the arrivistes who cosied up in bed with them. No doubt you would have been happier had they remained in control. Never mind, there will always be winners and losers in life, but let us hope that whoever takes over the club is somebody that we both can applaud and therefore somebody who can bring unity to the club once again.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Nineteen, you're obviously hurting that the charlatans that you admired so much have gone. Who knows, you might even have been one of them yourself, or otherwise an associate or confederate of theirs in some way or other. For myself, I've waited over a decade for the time to come when we would be rid of these people from the old board and the arrivistes who cosied up in bed with them. No doubt you would have been happier had they remained in control. Never mind, there will always be winners and losers in life, but let us hope that whoever takes over the club is somebody that we both can applaud and therefore somebody who can bring unity to the club once again.

 

Wes, I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence and for the record I have never been in the Lowe camp in any official capacity and have never even met the man. I'm just a life long supporter and season ticket holder who witnessed the most crass mismanagement and failed promises during Lowe's exile that frankly I welcomed him back as the only option to try and save this club from hitting the rocks. He failed in the final analysis but the damage was already done and I'm convinced had we stayed with the populist obsessed Crouch in charge we wouldn't have made Christmas IMO. Of course if only half of those who turned out to support the club last Saturday had stuck by the club more regularly then we would still be in charge of our own future.

 

I don't think you can seriously welcome administration as a means to ridding the club of its recent history with regard to ex-board members if anything there is a greater risk of them returning. It has deconstructed the plc which probably is a good thing but it seems to me a very heavy price to pay and we could still be in League 2 within 16 months once the ditherers at the FL make a decision. I wanted the removal of all of them as you know but Lowe should have been supported until economically at least it may have been easier to find a buyer. To place ourselves at the mercy of our creditors was always and now is the worst possible place to be but it seems to me many didn't listen.

 

People will point to the fact Lowe didn't attract his customers with a product worth supporting and ridicule him as an uncaring and poor businessman who didn't support the Saints. Fact is I think he did nothing else but act in the best interests of the club albeit perhaps cynically to protect his shareholder value. If that was the reason at least he tried and surely better than have some idiot glibly and publicly kiss goodbye to £1.9m or whatever the amount was and tell us in difficult times he didn't care about the money.

 

You're right Wes we are well rid but the worry must remain its only temporary and whilst one is putting across his side of events the other is telling anyone who cares to listen what a super fan he is and how much he's putting in to help. Given his alledged resources its kind of insulting really and Lowe is best of out of it.

 

I know we love a quote so avoiding the infamous C K Chesterton (sic) how about George Bernard Shaw's apt quote:

 

'Take care to get what you like or you will be forced to like what you get'

 

Fund raising Panel shows don't cut it for me now when the need to raise funds in the first place could and should have been avoided. I certainly have no desire to help fund something I will be forced to like and hope our creditors are kind in their final analysis as ultimately they will decide. We need another body SUFSOS. Save us From Save our Saints and any other fan led consortium as they are doomed to failure as interest wains just like The Saints Trust never able to achieve critical mass a bit like our match day fan base.

[Tamesaint]

Wes, I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence and for the record I have never been in the Lowe camp in any official capacity and have never even met the man. I'm just a life long supporter and season ticket holder who witnessed the most crass mismanagement and failed promises during Lowe's exile that frankly I welcomed him back as the only option to try and save this club from hitting the rocks. He failed in the final analysis but the damage was already done and I'm convinced had we stayed with the populist obsessed Crouch in charge we wouldn't have made Christmas IMO. Of course if only half of those who turned out to support the club last Saturday had stuck by the club more regularly then we would still be in charge of our own future.

 

I don't think you can seriously welcome administration as a means to ridding the club of its recent history with regard to ex-board members if anything there is a greater risk of them returning. It has deconstructed the plc which probably is a good thing but it seems to me a very heavy price to pay and we could still be in League 2 within 16 months once the ditherers at the FL make a decision. I wanted the removal of all of them as you know but Lowe should have been supported until economically at least it may have been easier to find a buyer. To place ourselves at the mercy of our creditors was always and now is the worst possible place to be but it seems to me many didn't listen.

 

People will point to the fact Lowe didn't attract his customers with a product worth supporting and ridicule him as an uncaring and poor businessman who didn't support the Saints. Fact is I think he did nothing else but act in the best interests of the club albeit perhaps cynically to protect his shareholder value. If that was the reason at least he tried and surely better than have some idiot glibly and publicly kiss goodbye to £1.9m or whatever the amount was and tell us in difficult times he didn't care about the money.

 

You're right Wes we are well rid but the worry must remain its only temporary and whilst one is putting across his side of events the other is telling anyone who cares to listen what a super fan he is and how much he's putting in to help. Given his alledged resources its kind of insulting really and Lowe is best of out of it.

 

I know we love a quote so avoiding the infamous C K Chesterton (sic) how about George Bernard Shaw's apt quote:

 

'Take care to get what you like or you will be forced to like what you get'

 

Fund raising Panel shows don't cut it for me now when the need to raise funds in the first place could and should have been avoided. I certainly have no desire to help fund something I will be forced to like and hope our creditors are kind in their final analysis as ultimately they will decide. We need another body SUFSOS. Save us From Save our Saints and any other fan led consortium as they are doomed to failure as interest wains just like The Saints Trust never able to achieve critical mass a bit like our match day fan base.

 

 

 

Yeah, yeah ,yeah Sundance / Nineteen whatever you want to call yourself. Lifelong supporter , yeah ,yeah. Not associated with Lowe , yeah I really believe you.

 

Are you a Saints supporter? Wil you buy a season ticket if Rupert is unable to give you one next season? You never post on football matters. You never stop peddling the Lowe line. Did you go to Watford last night?? No, I didn't think so. You are against any idea of raising money whether it is buckets outside the ground , question and answer sessions or any other idea - probably because you seem to delight so much from slagging off the fans that you cannot abide the thought of something constructive coming from the fanbase. After all they probably know more about Justin Fashanu that you do ;-)

[John B]

Yeah, yeah ,yeah Sundance / Nineteen whatever you want to call yourself. Lifelong supporter , yeah ,yeah. Not associated with Lowe , yeah I really believe you.

 

Are you a Saints supporter? Wil you buy a season ticket if Rupert is unable to give you one next season? You never post on football matters. You never stop peddling the Lowe line. Did you go to Watford last night?? No, I didn't think so. You are against any idea of raising money whether it is buckets outside the ground , question and answer sessions or any other idea - probably because you seem to delight so much from slagging off the fans that you cannot abide the thought of something constructive coming from the fanbase. After all they probably know more about Justin Fashanu that you do ;-)

 

Nineteen puts a reasonable case to me but you obviosly do not agree .

 

If the fans had supported the Club by going to St Mary's week in week out we would be in a better shape that appears obvious to me.

 

 

It seems to me a fair number were more interested in getting Lowe out than supporting the Club

[ottery st mary]

Nineteen puts a reasonable case to me but you obviosly do not agree .

 

If the fans had supported the Club by going to St Mary's week in week out we would be in a better shape that appears obvious to me.

 

 

It seems to me a fair number were more interested in getting Lowe out than supporting the Club

Both you and your mate 19 go to at least some games before you blame other fans.....Thought not;)

[Legod Third Coming]

Nineteen puts a reasonable case to me but you obviosly do not agree .

 

If the fans had supported the Club by going to St Mary's week in week out we would be in a better shape that appears obvious to me.

 

 

It seems to me a fair number were more interested in getting Lowe out than supporting the Club

 

I make a point of never ever being offensive to fans on this board from the comfort of my sofa and the anonymity of the internet, but can I ask you to reconsider this post.

 

Otherwise you might appear to be a sanctimonious berk, at best.

 

If you treat fans as customers and then serve up tripe and call it champagne, what the effing hell do you expect??

 

Oh and what about the rest of us who have had to watch our club decimated and brought to the brink of extinction from the stands by the man you mistakenly continue to herald as some sort of saviour?

 

And I don't like any of them.

[John B]

Both you and your mate 19 go to at least some games before you blame other fans.....Thought not;)

 

You are right I do not go to watch the Saints regularly and have not done so for over twenty years but I follow them closely and have done so for ov.

 

 

However I can the reasons why the club has failed in recent years and the blind hatred towards Lowe and recently Wilde has contributed to it.

 

 

Getting relegated was unfortunate but not a disaster but over spending did turn out to be so for nearly fifty years.

 

Unlike you I do not regard that everything that Lowe does is completely wrong and frankly find it strange that Lowe is blamed for everything.

[Legod Third Coming]

You are right I do not go to watch the Saints regularly and have not done so for over twenty years but I follow them closely and have done so for ov.

 

 

However I can the reasons why the club has failed in recent years and the blind hatred towards Lowe and recently Wilde has contributed to it.

 

 

Getting relegated was unfortunate but not a disaster but over spending did turn out to be so for nearly fifty years.

 

Unlike you I do not regard that everything that Lowe does is completely wrong and frankly find it strange that Lowe is blamed for everything.

 

Hatred of a chairman has really scuppered Manchester United and Liverpool's chances this year hasn't it.

[saintwarwick]

Lawrie McMenemy joined us in 1973 and left in 1985. Having been privileged to see some of the football played in that era, I think it is fair to say that without a doubt Lawrie McMenemy put us on the footballing map. He had plenty of opportunities to leave us during his tenure as manager, but did not. Read his Diary of a Season book if you want to know more.

 

Even in the 70s and 80s, 12 years at a club was exceptional. If Gordon Strachan is treated like a hero for what he did for Saints, Lawrie should probably be sainted. Yes he did leave but only after a long and successful tenure: making us one of the most attractive and well respected clubs in the country.

 

He returned to become Director of Football under Alan Ball, Dave Merrington and Graham Souness. He resigned when Souness resigned. Whatever his reasons (at the time it was stated as "differences with the new board", led by Rupert Lowe) clearly he decided to act as he did, resigning from a paid position on a matter of principle - right or wrong.

 

I would also point out that the sums that he is alleged to have earned as an ambassador to the club during the Wilde/Execs/Crouch era have not to my knowledge ever been in the public arena. I do know that when Mike Richards intimated that he had been earning £60,000 at the AGM in 2007, David Jones categorically denied that it was anything like that figure.

 

Comments get bandied about on this site, either out of mischief making or ignorance, but I find the character assassinations of McMenemy particularly galling, since it is obvious he cares a great deal for the club and does not like to see it in its current state.

 

Regardless of the politics and mud slinging I will always be grateful to Lawrie for the part he played in making the club what it was at its peak. He may not be to everyone's tastes but his positive place in Saints' history is assured

 

Top post about a top man, nobody could deny what he achieved with us and his record speaks that for our most successful manager ever. I had to laugh when people were quoting about 'McMoneyemy having his fingers in the trough' without actually providing facts.

[ottery st mary]

You are right I do not go to watch the Saints regularly and have not done so for over twenty years but I follow them closely and have done so for ov.

 

 

However I can the reasons why the club has failed in recent years and the blind hatred towards Lowe and recently Wilde has contributed to it.

 

 

Getting relegated was unfortunate but not a disaster but over spending did turn out to be so for nearly fifty years.

 

Unlike you I do not regard that everything that Lowe does is completely wrong and frankly find it strange that Lowe is blamed for everything.

 

Thank you for your honesty john...I had guessed that you were not a follower of Saints...I also guessed that 19 had never been to a football match in his life let alone a Saints game...There is absolutely no warmth for the saints in either of you.....To me you both give that public School feel ...through thick and thin for our house leader.....But at least you have been honest about not watching Saints...now 19 that is a strange case.

[John B]

I make a point of never ever being offensive to fans on this board from the comfort of my sofa and the anonymity of the internet, but can I ask you to reconsider this post.

 

Otherwise you might appear to be a sanctimonious berk, at best.

 

If you treat fans as customers and then serve up tripe and call it champagne, what the effing hell do you expect??

 

Oh and what about the rest of us who have had to watch our club decimated and brought to the brink of extinction from the stands by the man you mistakenly continue to herald as some sort of saviour?

 

And I don't like any of them.

 

You obviously live in a fantasy world if the club has to reduce costs in order to reduce the overdraft the team is not going to be very good and needs all the support it can get boycotting St Mary's obviously does not help.

 

Lowe was involved in getting us relegated of course but it is not solely him who has decimated the club as you put it.

 

I am sorry that I appear sanctimonious but I the hatred of Lowe has seriously damaged the club and as I have said I dont care who runs the club and who manages the team .

 

It surely is a point view that I have come to after analysing all the facts

[Saints Pedro]

OTH, ever stop and ask yourself how we all know so much about Crouch's donations? Is it because he tell's us? The man is a parasite.

 

That must be the most ridiculous thing you have written [yet] . Crouch has gone on record as saying he has never taken a penny from the club yet Lowe has always paid himself a good salary ,so who is the parasite?

[miserableoldgit]

You are right I do not go to watch the Saints regularly and have not done so for over twenty years but I follow them closely and have done so for ov.

 

 

However I can the reasons why the club has failed in recent years and the blind hatred towards Lowe and recently Wilde has contributed to it.

 

 

Getting relegated was unfortunate but not a disaster but over spending did turn out to be so for nearly fifty years.

 

Unlike you I do not regard that everything that Lowe does is completely wrong and frankly find it strange that Lowe is blamed for everything.

Unfortunate!!?? What an understatement! The relegation is the cause of our current woes. If we had not been relegated - the overspend would not have happened - the gamble to get back to "The Promised Land".

As I have said on another thread many people are to blame for our downfall,which began in 2003, but Lowe and Wilde have to take most of the blame. I do blame Lowe for relegation and for installing the Total Football Revolution, which has been a roaring sucess hasn`t it?

[Legod Third Coming]

You obviously live in a fantasy world if the club has to reduce costs in order to reduce the overdraft the team is not going to be very good and needs all the support it can get boycotting St Mary's obviously does not help.

 

Lowe was involved in getting us relegated of course but it is not solely him who has decimated the club as you put it.

 

I am sorry that I appear sanctimonious but I the hatred of Lowe has seriously damaged the club and as I have said I dont care who runs the club and who manages the team .

 

It surely is a point view that I have come to after analysing all the facts

 

 

Listen pal. I pay to watch my club and you have the audacity to claim I live in a fantasy world from your armchair??

 

I put myself down for a grand to save them too - money I can effing well ill afford.

 

Tell me, how much less or more is that than Rupert Lowe put into this club??

 

Do you think we would have had financial problems if we had NOT been relegated??

 

Rupert Lowe is an arrogant, divisive character who took hundreds of thousands of pounds in salary and failed in his job. He is the football equivalent of Fred Goodwin.

 

In any other business he would have been fired in 2004.

 

That is not fantasy land, that is the business reality the rest of us face.

 

Yes he orchestrated the stadium - the debt which is now crippling us because he did not maintain a focus on the first team because he does not believe in the proven models that work for successful football clubs the world over - hanging on to a decent manager and backing them.

 

Even then it might have failed.

 

But Clive Woodward? Simon Clifford?

 

Really. Get a grip son.

[saintwarwick]

Both you and your mate 19 go to at least some games before you blame other fans.....Thought not;)

 

Both Nineteen and John B put some good valid points across and I'm a season ticket holder.

[John B]

Thank you for your honesty john...I had guessed that you were not a follower of Saints...I also guessed that 19 had never been to a football match in his life let alone a Saints game...There is absolutely no warmth for the saints in either of you.....To me you both give that public School feel ...through thick and thin for our house leader.....But at least you have been honest about not watching Saints...now 19 that is a strange case.

 

I did not say I do not watch the Saints I said I do not watch the Saints regularly as I now live some way from Southampton.

 

I follow nearly all matches here on my PC with BBC OS and Forum and noticed your post suggesting that we would win 3 1. Mind you the first time I went to Vicarge road we lost 7 1

 

I do admit that I do not get as upset as I used to when we lose I probably am getting used to it.

 

The worst moment for me this season was against Sheff Utd I think after we equalised with a minute to go we lost it was at that moment I thought we would be relegated

 

As usual you make assumptions which are totally incorrect I went to School in Southampton at St Mary's College.

[John B]

Listen pal. I pay to watch my club and you have the audacity to claim I live in a fantasy world from your armchair??

 

I put myself down for a grand to save them too - money I can effing well ill afford.

 

Tell me, how much less or more is that than Rupert Lowe put into this club??

 

Do you think we would have had financial problems if we had NOT been relegated??

 

Rupert Lowe is an arrogant, divisive character who took hundreds of thousands of pounds in salary and failed in his job. He is the football equivalent of Fred Goodwin.

 

In any other business he would have been fired in 2004.

 

That is not fantasy land, that is the business reality the rest of us face.

 

Yes he orchestrated the stadium - the debt which is now crippling us because he did not maintain a focus on the first team because he does not believe in the proven models that work for successful football clubs the world over - hanging on to a decent manager and backing them.

 

Even then it might have failed.

 

But Clive Woodward? Simon Clifford?

 

Really. Get a grip son.

 

I dont want to to have a slanging match and upset you

 

So Let us go through point by point.

 

Point One

 

 

I suggested you were in a fantasy world because you appeared not to have accepted the situation that at the beginning of the season that because we had to reduce costs the team would struggle as they lacked experience and talent and the games would be poor.

Edited 8 April, 2009 by John B

[ottery st mary]

You obviously live in a fantasy world if the club has to reduce costs in order to reduce the overdraft the team is not going to be very good and needs all the support it can get boycotting St Mary's obviously does not help.

 

Lowe was involved in getting us relegated of course but it is not solely him who has decimated the club as you put it.

 

I am sorry that I appear sanctimonious but I the hatred of Lowe has seriously damaged the club and as I have said I dont care who runs the club and who manages the team .

 

It surely is a point view that I have come to after analysing all the facts

 

john... for your info like you, many of Ruperts followers on this forum have never been to a Saints game and know nothing about football..As a mod would say they are entitled to their opinion. Some of his followers go to games because of Rupert even though they have no interest in football..Many of his followers

STOPPED going when Rupert was not in the chair and yet you and some of Ruperts followers have the gall to criticise Saints fans as if they are the cause of our financial strife....Funny old game this Director adulation....

This information was given to me by a close business associate of Rupert The Bear.

 

BUT then again one only had to read many of the different posts in support of Rupert to see clearly that they knew nothing of The Mighty Saints or even the subject of football.It was also very clear that some were being fed strange information re football or financial matters...But no worries..I accept they are entitled to their opinion...even if false or just to wind up real frustrated Saints fans.........To me the whole sordid story about a failed businessman with no football acumen running the Saints has been the core of our problems.....Some of you and fellow Rupert followers have just been taking the piisss out of us real supporters.

 

Not just my opinion but from the facts I have looked at in various Ruprts boys posts and some info given to me...

 

At the close of play Saints will overcome long after Rupert and his followers have moved on.:cool:

 

Who took my heart away...I wanted to give one to Ruprts boyzzz:^o

[Legod Third Coming]

I dont want to to have a slanging match and upset you

 

So Let us go through point by point.

 

Point One

 

 

I suggested you were in a fantasy world because you appeared not to have accepted the situation that at the beginning of the season that because we had to reduce costs the team would struggle as they lacked experience and talent and the games would be poor.

 

Point 1 if we h

 

I accepted it. I watch and pay to do so. However, YOU blame fans for not paying to watch tripe when Lowe insisted we were customers. Ergo, you are living in cuckoo land. How can you expect audience numbers to hold up when we had poor players losing football matches?

 

And if you think 10,000 were staying away because of Rupert, you're totally deluded. To blame them for our financial plight is so misguided as to be insulting.

 

And for your next trick?

[John B]

I accepted it. I watch and pay to do so. However, YOU blame fans for not paying to watch tripe when Lowe insisted we were customers. Ergo, you are living in cuckoo land. How can you expect audience numbers to hold up when we had poor players losing football matches?

 

And if you think 10,000 were staying away because of Rupert, you're totally deluded. To blame them for our financial plight is so misguided as to be insulting.

 

And for your next trick?

 

Yes I do agree that playing poor football will mean that the crowds will be smaller but not going to games just because Lowe was there surely reduced revenue and has contributed to us going into administration not playing 442 may have been another

 

 

I am not blaming anyone I am just pointing out there are a number of reasons why the club finds it self in the position it does today.

 

 

Many fans have not taken relegation from the Premiership very well I remember in 1974 when we got relegated with a better team than in 2005 there was not such an outcry.

 

 

Relegation did contribute to our demise but it should not have .

 

 

The anti Lowe feeling led to Wilde coming in and he appeared believed like Crouch did ,that investment was around the corner and just spent assumming somebody was going to come in and pay the bill

Edited 8 April, 2009 by John B

[Nineteen Canteen]

john... for your info like you, many of Ruperts followers on this forum have never been to a Saints game and know nothing about football..As a mod would say they are entitled to their opinion. Some of his followers go to games because of Rupert even though they have no interest in football..Many of his followers

STOPPED going when Rupert was not in the chair and yet you and some of Ruperts followers have the gall to criticise Saints fans as if they are the cause of our financial strife....Funny old game this Director adulation....

This information was given to me by a close business associate of Rupert The Bear.

 

BUT then again one only had to read many of the different posts in support of Rupert to see clearly that they knew nothing of The Mighty Saints or even the subject of football.It was also very clear that some were being fed strange information re football or financial matters...But no worries..I accept they are entitled to their opinion...even if false or just to wind up real frustrated Saints fans.........To me the whole sordid story about a failed businessman with no football acumen running the Saints has been the core of our problems.....Some of you and fellow Rupert followers have just been taking the piisss out of us real supporters.

 

Not just my opinion but from the facts I have looked at in various Ruprts boys posts and some info given to me...

 

At the close of play Saints will overcome long after Rupert and his followers have moved on.:cool:

 

Who took my heart away...I wanted to give one to Ruprts boyzzz:^o

 

Sorry, but someone will have to translate this rubbish. It doesn't make any sense not even as a worthy opinion let alone one with any basis in fact. For anyone who belives ousting lowe was a good idea even though administration was the price their muddled thinking must be along the same lines.

 

I am a ST holder of many years and those that matter on either side know that and appreciate it. I've done my fundraising all season pity a few more of our fanbase didn't follow suit.

 

Word of advice, I always delete my posts or log out if I find myself spitting as I type.

[miserableoldgit]

Yes I do agree that playing poor football will mean that the crowds will be smaller but not going to games just because Lowe was there surely reduced revenue and has contributed to us going into administration not playing 442 may have been another

 

 

I am not blaming anyone I am just pointing out there are a number of reasons why the club finds it self in the position it does today.

 

 

Many fans have not taken relegation from the Premiership very well I remember in 1974 when we got relegated with a better team than in 2005 there was not such an outcry.

 

 

Relegation did contribute to our demise but it should not have .

 

 

The anti Lowe feeling led to Wilde coming in and he appeared believed like Crouch did ,that investment was around the corner and just spent assumming somebody was going to come in and pay the bill

The situation is very different now. Can you honestly compare the old First Division with the Premiership? The amount of money available now is so much compared with the 70`s that the Prem is seen, rightly or wrongly, as "The Promised Land" - the only place to be.

[John B]

Sorry, but someone will have to translate this rubbish. It doesn't make any sense not even as a worthy opinion let alone one with any basis in fact. For anyone who belives ousting lowe was a good idea even though administration was the price their muddled thinking must be along the same lines.

 

I am a ST holder of many years and those that matter on either side know that and appreciate it. I've done my fundraising all season pity a few more of our fanbase didn't follow suit.

 

Word of advice, I always delete my posts or log out if I find myself spitting as I type.

 

I think it was originally written in a foreign language and has been through a BABELFISH like translation.

[John B]

The situation is very different now. Can you honestly compare the old First Division with the Premiership? The amount of money available now is so much compared with the 70`s that the Prem is seen, rightly or wrongly, as "The Promised Land" - the only place to be.

 

I know it is different but I said there was not such an outcry and this helped us go forward that was my point

[Window Cleaner]

I think it was originally written in a foreign language and has been through a BABELFISH like translation.

 

Ottery writes like David Mitchell, sometimes you think that there's a page or two missing, then you cotton on that that's the way of the yarn.

[Legod Third Coming]

Yes I do agree that playing poor football will mean that the crowds will be smaller but not going to games just because Lowe was there surely reduced revenue and has contributed to us going into administration

 

 

I am not blaming anyone I am just pointing out there are a number of reasons why the club finds it self in the position it does today.

 

 

Many fans have not taken relegation from the Premiership very well I remember in 1974 when we got relegated with a better team than in 2005 there was not such an outcry.

 

 

Relegation did contribute to our demise but it should not have .

 

 

The anti Lowe feeling led to Wilde coming in and he appeared believed like Crouch did ,that investment was around the corner and just spent assumming somebody was going to come in and pay the bill

 

Being relegated in 1974 did not result in an 80% reduction in club revenues. The two scenarios are totally incomorable.

 

Fans did not take relegation well in the same way I would not be all the chuffed if my missus shot me.

 

Rupert Lowe singularly oversaw 10 managers in 10 years and three in one season. These indisputable facts were a major (some would say THE major) contibutory factor in our relegation.

 

That relegation was the catalyst to our collapse.

 

In the first season when promotion was paramount, Rupert Lowe appointed Clive Woodward to work with Harry Redknapp - the equivalent of asking King Herod to baby-sit.

 

These are crass and stupid errors. Really, genuinely so stupid as to be comical.

 

For these reasons, I cannot see how anyone - anyone fair minded and with even the most basic understanding of football - can defend Rupert Lowe.

 

I am sure he is a nice guy who believes genuinely in his abilities and yes, probably did think he was doing good things for this club.

 

Life is full of them.

 

He is also (as proved at the last AGM) totally and utterly deluded and his yet more innovative plan for this year was a disaster.

 

What part of his plan for this season succeeded????????

 

Where is Jan Portvlieet now?

 

Rupert's modest successes (striking lucky with Gordon Strachan) are overwhelmed by a catastrophic malaise of failures which we could all list now.

 

He has gone. We must move on.

 

But to blame fans - as you originally did - for not supporting a regime that ripped apart this football club was in really, really poor taste.

[ottery st mary]

Sorry, but someone will have to translate this rubbish. It doesn't make any sense not even as a worthy opinion let alone one with any basis in fact. For anyone who belives ousting lowe was a good idea even though administration was the price their muddled thinking must be along the same lines.

 

I am a ST holder of many years and those that matter on either side know that and appreciate it. I've done my fundraising all season pity a few more of our fanbase didn't follow suit.

 

Word of advice, I always delete my posts or log out if I find myself spitting as I type.

 

I am interested to see, after your first sentence, you went on to agree with the rest of my rubbish as you so politely put it...Still think you have no idea about the Saints or football. Mind you some of you old boys go to his tea parties at some games and then strangely disappeared when he was ousted for a couple of years.....Pot kettle etc from some of your rantings about Saints fans....

 

Tell me who you are 19 and I will varify your status as a ST holder or even if you go to games...Go on show us your money for the Saints survival....Has Rupert?