Window Cleaner Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 I don't see how the League can dock us points just because of the threat of legal action by other clubs, if we have not broken league rules? but then again ...we can't be as hated as Dirty Leeds???? They will dock us points because the PLC is just a vehicule for the FC. The FC can't pay it's debts neither can the PLC. Now as I see it ,the bank bounced cheques at least one of which was related to football (goalkeeping coach).That means that the PLC was paying the bills for the FC. They are separate entities in name only and the Football League will as likely see it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Do we definitely get a definitive decision tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Do we definitely get a definitive decision tomorrow? I don't think anyone has said it will be definitive one way or the other, but I can't see it dragging on as it will definitely impact on the relegation battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 I don't think anyone has said it will be definitive one way or the other, but I can't see it dragging on as it will definitely impact on the relegation battle. Recent history would suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 I believe that we will honestly get a ten point deduction unfortunately. Will it affect our 'Chances' of a takeover ?? - I don't think so, i think those that have expressed an interest already (at least the majority) are looking to invest whatever happens. I would imagine to most looking in it is pretty obvious that we will get the deduction. With the right management i don't think we will stay down for too long, but i believe any investment will be passion driven anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 With such a lot at stake regarding league status and take over potential, what do you think the odds are for us surving a points deuction tomorrow? Good things dont happen to saints, we will lose 10 points, lose to watford and probably cease to exist come august. But dont let me ruin anybodys excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Recent history would suggest otherwise. But I think they will make their decison one way or another fairly quickly, but I also agree that it could then drag on from there. However, have the League or the FA ever backtracked in this area once they have made a decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 I'm not sure whether this means the exceptional circumstances was to do with allowing the transfer of the share in the League allowing Leeds to stay in the League or whether it was used to give them another points deduction. My worry is that this "exceptional circumstances provision" could be used as a catch all to ensure we get a deduction. Which is what I said earlier, if they want, they can withdraw Saints membership to the league unless they sign a letter accepting -10 points and they wont contest it. They have to do it to stop football turning into a farce where any club can create a holding company and overspend and then put it into admin. The best case scenario is a takeover within the next few days that take on all debts and the FL let off Saints like they did to Derby. But seeing as theyve already reneged on the County debt, it looks like -10 at least is a certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 What time are we likely to know if a decision has been taken tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Soze Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Tomorrow is key in two areas: - The League meeting discussing a potential point penalty - Watford game If we lost a) and b) we are fooked. No turning back. If we lose a) and win b) we need a miracle. If we win a) but lose b) we still have a fighting chance. If we win a) and b) it's in our own hands and we can only throw it away. I personally believe we will lose both come 10pm tomorrow :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 What time are we likely to know if a decision has been taken tomorrow? good question! My guess 3.30pm Meeting starts at 2pm? FL representative makes the case for deduction. Saints make the case for no deduction. Decision by 3.30pm In car by 4pm to go to Watford. Question - who will be there to represent Saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 good question! My guess 3.30pm Meeting starts at 2pm? FL representative makes the case for deduction. Saints make the case for no deduction. Decision by 3.30pm In car by 4pm to go to Watford. Question - who will be there to represent Saints? It's a routine internal committee meeting isn't it, and we happen to be one item on the agenda? That was my understanding. I don't think we're required to plead anything at this stage (although no doubt someone will have been in touch to ensure our position is known). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSaint Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 They will dock us points because the PLC is just a vehicule for the FC. The administrator mentioned only the Football club & Jacksons Farm during his press conference and I agree this does look bad for our argument, however the holding company once ran mortgage Businesses, Radio Stations, Retirement Homes, etc. Presumably these all did badly & closed? Heres the full list: Leisure Holdings PLC Southampton Football Club Ltd St. Mary's Stadium Ltd St. Mary's SPV Ltd Southampton Insurance Services Ltd Southampton Mortgage & Financial Centre Ltd Saints Supporters Club Ltd Southampton Swaylife Ltd Secure Retirement Ltd Dell Estates Ltd St Michael's Street Homes (No. 1) Ltd Stadium 2000 Ltd Felix Broadcasting Ltd South City FM Ltd Forest FM Ltd Surely thats not the same as just starting a holding company to protect the debts of the FC? I reckon if we secure a good lawyer & the FA Panel get their oats tonight we may just surprise everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 It's a routine internal committee meeting isn't it, and we happen to be one item on the agenda? That was my understanding. I don't think we're required to plead anything at this stage (although no doubt someone will have been in touch to ensure our position is known). My guess is that Saints would be asked questions about legal structure of the group, latest financial position, etc. Whilst they may have it in the form of a briefing note I am sure they would want to hear it verbally as well. Or perhaps they just get a coin out heads - deduct 10 points tails - lets go for 20 points just to **** them off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.comsaint Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 I think we'll escape a points deduction although the Football League won't be happy about it. We've found a loophole (of sorts) and although we haven't "technically" done anything wrong - it goes against the spirit of things. The FL will close the loophole/amend the rules - as it were. Other clubs scrapping down the bottom with us won't be happy of course - but I personally couldn't care what they think - it's MY friggin' club that's at stake ffs! Anyway - I reckon that after saturday's pathetic display - we're going down anyway...and so no-one else will give a toss at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 We would have got even less for them so far than we actually have. We needed money, faced with the impossibility to offload any of the overpaid crap that we have on our books for a transfer fee we had to get whatever we could into the kitty.Fortunately we got an unexpected windfall from the Crouch resale,combined with the 1.3 million we got for Davies,the Bale add on and the couple of quid we got for Safri we were able to reduce the overdraft from 6.6 million to 4 million and keep afloat.Just think if we'd have been able to offload Skacel to Ipswich for a million we'd have been able to sign a left back at 5K a week and reduce our OD to 3 million. Maybe a couple of bob left for a right back as well.Skacel,Saganowski,John,Euell the death knell of SFC. Useless all of them. Even with 500K for Dyer we'd have been better placed to survive. But whilst clubs can obtain players on loan because so many Prem clubs have so many on their books that they jump at any chance to shift some for a month or two how are we supposed to actually sell players? On reflection WC, I suppose the answer is not buy them in the first place. Skacel has been a dreadful signing and contributed diddly squat considering his fee and weekly wage and Euell? The past 3 years we became a pension fund top up scheme for aging has-been players. A disgrace really, would have been better off limiting our spending to £90k. Ricardo Fuller has done well at Stoke despite being an unlikeable fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 That's not very helpful is it!!!!!! they just had a Leeds fan on Radio Hampshire having a moan about how Leeds suffered from the Football League's exceptional cirumstances clause. This was on a BBC site back in August: "The Football League Board agreed that, notwithstanding the manner in which this administration has been conducted, the club should be permitted to continue in the Football League," said a statement. "Consequently, the board has decided to make use of the 'exceptional circumstances' provision within the League's insolvency policy, for the first time, and agreed to transfer the club's share in The Football League to LeedsUnited 2007 Ltd. Accordingly, the club's share has now been transferred." However, it is acknowledged the club did go into administration and has been unable to comply with the terms of the League's well-established insolvency policy. As a result, the board determined this transfer of membership should be subject to Leeds United having a 15-point deduction applicable from the beginning of the 2007/08 season." I'm not sure whether this means the exceptional circumstances was to do with allowing the transfer of the share in the League allowing Leeds to stay in the League or whether it was used to give them another points deduction. My worry is that this "exceptional circumstances provision" could be used as a catch all to ensure we get a deduction. Um, that seals it IMO. They will recognise the loophole and close it and then using their exceptional circumstances provision deduct us 10 points and maybe more pending any prospective buy out regardless of past attendances. Regrettably, they don't appear to have any choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Um, that seals it IMO. They will recognise the loophole and close it and then using their exceptional circumstances provision deduct us 10 points and maybe more pending any prospective buy out regardless of past attendances. Regrettably, they don't appear to have any choice. Well, that would seem to be typical of Rupert, even his final big idea gets blown out of the water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 IMHO, there is no way Saints will escape the 10 point deduction .... in effect a Double Whammy If we get out of the bottom three, we will get a Ten point penalty, which means RELEGATION If we end up in the bottom three, that means Relegation .... starting off with minus 10 points next season WELL DONE RUPERT ....... The Savior of Saints ..... Rupert didn't put us in administration, the bank and not enough loyal fans sealed our fate. Lowe kept his end of the bargain by cutting costs to the bone and trying to stay focused and upbeat on delivering this club to some reasonable level of safety. Its a sad tale and one where we have all let eachother down. Crouch had £2m so why didn't he simply invest it in the club to reduce Barclays exposure rather than the macho act of demanding Lowe and Wilde to match it? He may as well have asked me for the likliehood they had £2m going spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Rupert didn't put us in administration, the bank and not enough loyal fans sealed our fate. Lowe kept his end of the bargain by cutting costs to the bone and trying to stay focused and upbeat on delivering this club to some reasonable level of safety. Its a sad tale and one where we have all let eachother down. Crouch had £2m so why didn't he simply invest it in the club to reduce Barclays exposure rather than the macho act of demanding Lowe and Wilde to match it? He may as well have asked me for the likliehood they had £2m going spare. Sorry, but if I am to invest an amount of money in something, especially when it is to be directly controlled by someone else, it is surely prudent to request a show of good faith by requesting the same in return. But either way, it is now done..... and is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 As I see it the 10 point deduction is inevitable. What else did SLH do apart from pay blokes to kick footballs around for a living. Oh yes, they sold same blokes to balance their books and SAID SO publicly - out of their own mouths as it were. Unarguable surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 It would be unpalatable if we were not docked 10 points for next season. Lets just take the punishement and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Sorry, but if I am to invest an amount of money in something, especially when it is to be directly controlled by someone else, it is surely prudent to request a show of good faith by requesting the same in return. But either way, it is now done..... and is history. Or a petulant/vulgar show of I've got more money than you. I cannot believe for one minute Lowe can afford to lose or even have £2m to pump into the club and god knows about Wilde. So no it's not prudent but Lowe should have taken his money in return for giving him Chairman of the football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Not sure of the legals but it seems like we have a fair chance of avoiding a points deduction. Saying that, can't remember ever having any luck when the football authorities have been left to decide our fate. The league should ask themselves this: If Glazer 's holding company went pop when he can't re-finance the debt on Manure, would they dock the club points because that holding company went bust? - would they ****! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Or a petulant/vulgar show of I've got more money than you. I cannot believe for one minute Lowe can afford to lose or even have £2m to pump into the club and god knows about Wilde. So no it's not prudent but Lowe should have taken his money in return for giving him Chairman of the football club. It can be interpreted many ways. I agree with your point that a compromise in terms of role should have been reachable, based on how many have reacted towards working with Lowe though, I fear the compromise you suggested wouldn't have been possible. It just seems inconsistent for Lowe to accept someone else being Chairman, and I doubt Crouch would have taken that due to a personality clash making it impossible for them to work together anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 But I think they will make their decison one way or another fairly quickly, but I also agree that it could then drag on from there. However, have the League or the FA ever backtracked in this area once they have made a decision? Tottenham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Massive day? perhaps the OP is no student of relativity then! ...time being as it is the obtrusion of energy on to mass viewed at the constant (non 'strung') speed of light. Let's just hope that our boys manage to energetically obtrude their boots onto the ball with the correct velocity to enable it to find its way into the goal more times then Watford do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Very nervous this morning.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 whys that Alps??? Just another normal boring tues isn't it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I actually think it is thw Watford game that is worrying me more!!! I just can't see past a 4-0 defeat, they always do us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we will be pretty much down, so if the ten points is awarded, that will be enforced next year!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Like my mood... I fear the worst to try and make the best scenario come true. What will be will be, all events are neutral; do we deserve to avoid a points deduction and a win tonight anyway? Not surprisingly the players are feeling the pressure, only human. That, unfortunately is the most worrying aspect!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 It seems most people have already accepted a ten point deduction and relegation. Get behind the apathy!!!! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4271671.Day_of_reckoning_for_Saints_beckons/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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