um pahars Posted 4 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April, 2009 (edited) I beg to differ young Steven... I think those 3 months in which he was in charge are singularly responsible for our fate today and that divvering over Dodd and Gorman has set in effect a series of disasters that has ripped this club apart.... And the statue isn't that good either! Aer you talking about Sturrock's short tenure or Wigley's short tenure following him????? If it's Wigley's then I'd definitely agrre with you. But the reason for bringing the Wigley Caretakership until the end of the season (after WGS left) line into the debate, was merely to highlight how temporary, transient and flexible caretaker managers are following the departure of the previous incumbent. Lowe stated clearly that Wigley was manager until the end of the season, but something like a fortnight and 3 games later unveiled Sturrock. Nothing wrong with that at all and he was not criticised for doing that (not that I can remember anyway!!). Edited 4 April, 2009 by um pahars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 Aer you talking about Sturrock's short tenure or Wigley's short tenure following him????? If it's Wigley's then I'd definitely agrre with you. But the reason for bringing the Wigley Caretakership until the end of the season (after WGS left) line into the debate, was merely to highlight how temporary, transient and flexible caretaker managers are following the departure of the previous incumbent. Lowe stated clearly that Wigley was manager until the end of the season, but something like a fortnight and 3 games later unveiled Sturrock. Nothing wrong with that at all and he was not criticised for doing that (not that I can remember anyway!!). I was refering to Crouch and I was being sarcastic.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTreeFrog Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 Phew! Thank god he didn't get rid of a good manager, appoint a dutch manager with no experience of English football who lasts barely half a season and generally screw up the whole season, ultimately ending up with the club going to administration... God knows what we'd do if he'd done that... Your sarcastic (and misguided) comments demonstrate exactly what is wrong with this forum. Can you point to a single comment I have made that praises Lowe? I would be amazed if you could – it was only aimed at Crouch’s (mis)management of the situation after Burley left. The reason I posted my comments was that this thread (and some others) were turning into a bit of a love fest for Crouch and many appear to have forgotten he was not exactly inspiring or decisive last time. Can you honestly say he managed that period well and is a man whose word can be trusted? There is no point in going into detail again, but the fact is he made sweeping comments and changed his mind from week to week. That is the issue I am judging him on here – nothing to do with comparing him to Lowe or saying who was ‘most to blame’ for our current situation. I believe our problems over the past 4 years are far too complicated to suggest it is all due to (Wilde/Crouch/Lowe) so have tried to avoid such discussions if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 It's still worrying that so many people try to simplify our current situation and try to blame one person. We are in administration due to a combination of factors.... not due to a dictator. I do feel though that Leon was at worst the best of a bad bunch. He always seemed to be trying to do his best for the club as a whole, not just himself, even if he wasn't totally infallable in his decisions... A total cleanse is required, and administration gives us the potential for that. Whatever happens Saints will survive, we are too many in number for the club to simply vanish, there will always be a Southampton fc. The trouble is, beggars cannot be chosers. You can blame Lowe for a lot of things, but the current finacial mess has little to do with him when you consider how much was wasted whilst he had nothing to do with us. Lowe has gone now, so we have to do the best with the idiots that are left, with Crouch the only one I can see putting some money in. Unless someone can explain the value of putting any money in now, I shall wait for later to do my bit. I'll offer to pop my pennies on top of that £2M wad that Leon has been teasing us with and see what he says! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTreeFrog Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 I have always maintained that we dillied and dallied too much when it was likely that Burley would up and leave, but in the grand scheme of things, D & G overstaying their tenure by 3 or 4 games is hardly the most henious crime of the century (even if the decision swung one way and then another over 10 days). After all, it was announced that Wigley was in charge until the end of the season when Strachan left, only to be replaced a fortnight later by Sturrock. I don't remember Lowe getting stick for changing his mind so quickly (and rightly so). Fair enough, but again, I never suggested it was the most ‘heinous crime’ did I? If you got that from what I wrote I suggest you read it again. I even said in my first post that I do not have a problem with Crouch, I just wanted to bring some balance into what appeared to be developing into a bit of a love in. Also, you are doing what Darren W (above) has done and attempted to make this about Lowe and our current situation; my comments were not looking to find who is most to blame for what we see now. My post was purely about how Crouch managed the really important issues during his short time in charge. The ‘change of mind’ Crouch demonstrated over those two weeks was not over minor things but represented a 180 degree turnaround on his own judgement. I think we need a total change and not rely on past personalities. If Crouch offered our only (or best) chance of recovery then I would welcome him back, that’s not being a hypocrite, it’s all about perspective. I would not want Lowe to come back under any circumstances as its clear it would lead only to further resentment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTreeFrog Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 It's still worrying that so many people try to simplify our current situation and try to blame one person. We are in administration due to a combination of factors.... not due to a dictator. I do feel though that Leon was at worst the best of a bad bunch. He always seemed to be trying to do his best for the club as a whole, not just himself, even if he wasn't totally infallable in his decisions... A total cleanse is required, and administration gives us the potential for that. Whatever happens Saints will survive, we are too many in number for the club to simply vanish, there will always be a Southampton fc. I wholeheartedly agree with you. There are a whole raft of reasons why we have failed over the past 4 years, and of course that includes some poor decisions made along the way. But one win instead of a draw and we would not have been relegated. A few less injuries/suspensions and it's unlikely we would have been relegated. A bit of ‘luck’ and we would have got past Derby and back to the premiership. I would agree that Crouch was probably the best of a bad bunch, but mainly because he had a very short time to mess things up. I think we shouldn't look to past personalities for the hope of survival but need a brand new start. Only if we have no choice would it be wise to welcome back Wilde or Crouch, and I hope Lowe would not even dream about returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 The trouble is, beggars cannot be chosers. You can blame Lowe for a lot of things, but the current finacial mess has little to do with him when you consider how much was wasted whilst he had nothing to do with us. Lowe has gone now, so we have to do the best with the idiots that are left, with Crouch the only one I can see putting some money in. Unless someone can explain the value of putting any money in now, I shall wait for later to do my bit. I'll offer to pop my pennies on top of that £2M wad that Leon has been teasing us with and see what he says! Put your Ra Ra skirt and Pom Poms away matey...The biggest idiot has gone..For GOOD we all hope. Get over yourself..Most are over him already..Become a Saints supporter now and forget the PRATT who is and has never been a Saints supporter..Not even a businessman either..No more digs on behalf of Rupes please:smt017 Saints to survive with a little help:smt049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 4 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April, 2009 The ‘change of mind’ Crouch demonstrated over those two weeks was not over minor things but represented a 180 degree turnaround on his own judgement. The turnaround that Crouch demonstrated with regards D & G and Pearson was no different from Lowe's turnaround when he installed Wigley until the end of the season and then did a 180 degree turnaround. At the time Lowe said: "He has agreed to take charge of the first team until the end of the season", "Wigley understands the importance of the next 13 games", "we will take the necessary time to explore our options". I'm not trying to make this a Lowe v Crouch thing at all, just trying to show that Lowe did exactly the same thing when he was in charge and he quite rightly never came in for any stick about it, nor did anyone use it as a reson for questioning his judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 The turnaround that Crouch demonstrated with regards D & G and Pearson was no different from Lowe's turnaround when he installed Wigley until the end of the season and then did a 180 degree turnaround. At the time Lowe said: "He has agreed to take charge of the first team until the end of the season", "Wigley understands the importance of the next 13 games", "we will take the necessary time to explore our options". I'm not trying to make this a Lowe v Crouch thing at all, just trying to show that Lowe did exactly the same thing when he was in charge and he quite rightly never came in for any stick about it, nor did anyone use it as a reson for questioning his judgement. I thought the original decision not to replace Burley was reasonable at the time I never thought the side would play so bad after he left nor did Crouch or Lawrie Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 The turnaround that Crouch demonstrated with regards D & G and Pearson was no different from Lowe's turnaround when he installed Wigley until the end of the season and then did a 180 degree turnaround. At the time Lowe said: "He has agreed to take charge of the first team until the end of the season", "Wigley understands the importance of the next 13 games", "we will take the necessary time to explore our options". I'm not trying to make this a Lowe v Crouch thing at all, just trying to show that Lowe did exactly the same thing when he was in charge and he quite rightly never came in for any stick about it, nor did anyone use it as a reson for questioning his judgement. Ump I cant be reading that correctly, as RL rightly has had loads of stick about keeping Wigley on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 4 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April, 2009 Ump I cant be reading that correctly, as RL rightly has had loads of stick about keeping Wigley on. I don't think you are reading it correctly. I was saying that I don't remember Lowe getting any stick (not he should have) for bringing Sturrock in a fortnight after originally saying Wigley would be caretaker for the 13 games until the end of the season when WGS left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 I don't think you are reading it correctly. I was saying that I don't remember Lowe getting any stick (not he should have) for bringing Sturrock in a fortnight after originally saying Wigley would be caretaker for the 13 games until the end of the season when WGS left. OK thats fine. I miust have not read it correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintinlondon Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 in being dignified he knows it will make him look good and create support which is his sole agenda. why do we all support this man. he is an urchin who has already failed once and is liked just because he is the 'anti-lowe'. whilst i am glad to see lowe gone SFC needs nothing to do with this man. **** off leon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 in being dignified he knows it will make him look good and create support which is his sole agenda. why do we all support this man. he is an urchin who has already failed once and is liked just because he is the 'anti-lowe'. whilst i am glad to see lowe gone SFC needs nothing to do with this man. **** off leon Whoever comes in will need the support of people like Leon Lawrie, Mary and us.:smt049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 Whoever comes in will need the support of people like Leon Lawrie, Mary and us.:smt049 more people who support the new owner the better - we have had our fill of division, however previous shareholders are pretty irrelevant now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 more people who support the new owner the better - we have had our fill of division, however previous shareholders are pretty irrelevant now I'm right there with you shoulder to shoulder as always...You just haven't noticed me.Not even Leon....Go on he loves the club and would be handy to have supporting the new regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 4 April, 2009 Share Posted 4 April, 2009 more support the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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