saint lard Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 (edited) Sorry i can only manage £500,my son and i need to eat. Oh, and the likes of paying for BWP to pick up over 5 grand a week grates on me. Edited 2 April, 2009 by saint lard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 What this poll shows (and I put myself down for a few quid having got the trifecta up in the third race at Aintree today and backed five winners besides) is that there are countless people who would and might save this club. They're called FANS. And they are and always have been what football existed for. Viva La Fecking Revolution!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monosaint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 How about this. I made a few assumptions based on the fact that Saints have a total fan base of 40,000. Let's face it, when in the premiership (oh joy!!) we filled the stadium week in week out. Took the percentages in the above poll and applied that to the total fan base and look what it comes to.. £77 Million. Maybe a flawed model but we can rework it.. The assumption that over 8% would give over £5K may be optimistic but that's what the poll says and of course the likes of Crouch could come in with a couple of million. Equally, could reduce the fan base but even at half the number we are talking a lot of money and of course the poll is probably over optimistic but worth a try.. Fans Donation Total 20000 £500.00 £10,000,000 0 £750.00 £0 9188 £1,000.00 £9,188,000 1080 £1,500.00 £1,620,000 1352 £2,000.00 £2,704,000 2164 £2,500.00 £5,410,000 2704 £5,000.00 £13,520,000 Rich Buggers (Maybe a bit optimistic but Crouch may help here) 3512 £10,000.00 £35,120,000.00 40000 Total £77,562,000.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I'd invest only if the players took a pay cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 If this is to be taken forward, we should consider doing it as as a charitable trust. It would make (I think) every pound worth an extra 28p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 How would people feel about soeone like Alan Whitehead being involved? Is he not a fan? And, poloitics aside, I have not met too many people who don't have a soft spot for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royce2uk Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Not sure this can be a charitable trust as sport for sports sake is not considered a charitable purpose under current law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Yes. Totally. I have been saying all along that raw capitalism in football - as in every other walk of life - is bad. If our club could shake off the money-grabbing era of Lowe and his ilk and instead reform as an Industrial and Provident Society then we would be ready to face the 21st century and all that it brings. Capitalism is dead, debt-based economics is dead, stupid-dumb-arsed-wage-bills are a thing of the past. It is time for us fans to re-take our club and prove that people will always triumph over greed; community is more important than shares traded on a whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Look I don't want to see Saints die, but neither do I want another version of the PLC and fragmenting share ownership in this manner is just that in my book. It's a final option perhaps and one that I could support purely as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Superb idea, now we really need somebody (or a few people) to step forward and head the whole consortium. The best person to lead this would be a highly respected figure who we could trust to set up say an account for us to deposit all our money (obviously this is just for starters). The quickest way to get things moving financially is to get three or four persons together and go to the bank (not one in danger of going under themselves in this bad economic climate!) and open a joint checking account requiring at least two signatories out of three (if three joint account holders) or at least three signatories out of four (if four joint account holders). The joint account holders must not be related except by a common love for Saints. The maximum amount that can be drawn on each cheque should be stated to the bank e.g. 20,000 pounds, so that no one can forge a signature and make off with all the money with just one cheque. If three or four respected Saints fans were to open just this sort of joint account with a bank, I am prepared to forward 2500 (or 5000 if need be) pounds to them immediately. As they say, money talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 The quickest way to get things moving financially is to get three or four persons together and go to the bank (not one in danger of going under themselves in this bad economic climate!) and open a joint checking account requiring at least two signatories out of three (if three joint account holders) or at least three signatories out of four (if four joint account holders). The joint account holders must not be related except by a common love for Saints. The maximum amount that can be drawn on each cheque should be stated to the bank e.g. 20,000 pounds, so that no one can forge a signature and make off with all the money with just one cheque. If three or four respected Saints fans were to open just this sort of joint account with a bank, I am prepared to forward 2500 (or 5000 if need be) pounds to them immediately. As they say, money talks. I tried to get buy-in from fans many moons ago. I crunched some numbers. You'll find the post here; http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=187205&highlight=saint+bobby#post187205 Clearly, the amount needed is much less now! I'm afraid I don't trust the "established" groups - I think the Saints Trust and SISA et al have just been abysmal. I agree that we need to just kick-start something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 If everyone lived up to their promise here... the current total is: 45000 + 1500 + 42000 + 9000 + 10000 + 20000 + 50000 + 100000 plus = £287,500 plus whoaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Matty Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 as said elsewhere £2,500 St Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I'd be willing to stump up a minimum of £1000, but can it be put together in time? Would the major creditors allow extra time for a consortium to be put together? Would the FL do likewise when determining what, if any penalties to impose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Number 1 - Let them re-possess the stadium. We rent it back at a percentage of gate receipts, ie 20% of takings, has go to be better than nothing. 25,000 @ £20 x 20% = £100,000 per match. that's not a bad income over the season imho. Someone please check my secondary modern maths please or tell me that that's not a starting point. I believe that Cardiff Blues rugby team will be renting the ground off Cardiff City next season and it will cost £65k a match. Their average gates are around 10,000 and tickets are a bit cheaper than the Saints so the rent Saints could expect to pay would probably be a bit higher than £100k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popester Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I'm in for a £1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popester Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I should add to this that I would also put some time into it. I'm a partner at a Midlands law firm so could probably add something to the party I'm base in Warwick and also happy to put some time and money in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Yes. Totally. I have been saying all along that raw capitalism in football - as in every other walk of life - is bad. If our club could shake off the money-grabbing era of Lowe and his ilk and instead reform as an Industrial and Provident Society then we would be ready to face the 21st century and all that it brings. Capitalism is dead, debt-based economics is dead, stupid-dumb-arsed-wage-bills are a thing of the past. It is time for us fans to re-take our club and prove that people will always triumph over greed; community is more important than shares traded on a whim. How many Industrial and Provident Societies do you expect to be promoted to the Premier League in the next ten years? This is fantasy land stuff. If you want Saints to be bumming about the bottom two divisions for ever, then go down this route. If the self satisfied smugness of being part of Kibbutz FC is your prime motivation, then this is the solution for you. Who's volunteering the home made cakes for the stall at half time? It's hilarious that when people rant about "greed" and "raw capitalism" then they always infer that the "suits" that are the problem. Bradley Wright Phillips will walk off with £1m for the course of his contract. Rudi Skacel is on nigh on £1m a year, every year, as was Rasiak and others. Do you think they are going to play for a club who uses the pitch to grow lettuce in the close season to make ends meet? Footballers are as "raw" and as "capitalist" as you could get yet its those in the ties that get all the stick. PS - why has Zero been removed as an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 April, 2009 How many Industrial and Provident Societies do you expect to be promoted to the Premier League in the next ten years? This is fantasy land stuff. If you want Saints to be bumming about the bottom two divisions for ever, then go down this route. If the self satisfied smugness of being part of Kibbutz FC is your prime motivation, then this is the solution for you. Who's volunteering the home made cakes for the stall at half time? It's hilarious that when people rant about "greed" and "raw capitalism" then they always infer that the "suits" that are the problem. Bradley Wright Phillips will walk off with £1m for the course of his contract. Rudi Skacel is on nigh on £1m a year, every year, as was Rasiak and others. Do you think they are going to play for a club who uses the pitch to grow lettuce in the close season to make ends meet? Footballers are as "raw" and as "capitalist" as you could get yet its those in the ties that get all the stick. PS - why has Zero been removed as an option? I take it thats a no then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 How many Industrial and Provident Societies do you expect to be promoted to the Premier League in the next ten years? But what if the alternative is just to fold??? Surely it would be better to do anything to keep the Club ticking over and then look to move forward once things are more secure. I'm sure Swansea went down the route of involving their Supporter's Trust in the first instance to stave off going into obscurity and then built on that when others came in once the Club was a more stable and viable proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersfield Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Just playing devil's advocate here, but maybe there should also be an option on the poll for those who wouldn't put any money in - as we've seen there are at least a couple of posters who are against this plan (and fair play - they're still entitled to their opinions) - to gauge overall opinion? FWIW - I would happily pledge £500 now and maybe more if I could afford it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 What part of "£5,000 would pay the wages of one of our worst and over paid players for one week" don't you understand. We're not Mansfield or Accrington so passing the bucket round the stands isn't going to make a blind bit of difference no matter how "good" it makes people feel. And secondly expected ordinary working class people to chuck £5k to cover the wages of the likes of BWP in the middle of a recession and mass unemployment in the south and nationally is obscene and don't appreciate your tone. Can you see the bigger picture or are you just hung up on BWP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 How many Industrial and Provident Societies do you expect to be promoted to the Premier League in the next ten years? None - but then I don't expect any clubs that went under to be in the premier league either. If a buyer cannot be found this may be our only way to have a footy club in 6 months time I know - why don't we sit at keyboards and type petty insults at people instead. Much more worthwhile. Knot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 April, 2009 The sort of workable committee/board/structure for a trust could be a committee of a 7 with a quorum of 5. A minimum majority of 2 therefore no casting vote for a chairman. Too many becomes unworkable and I've seen casting votes allow dominant chairmen to misrule, as happened with SLH a couple of years back. At least 50% +1 from contributors with less than £10000 contributed, elected by ballot after the initial launch, this would stop a large investor highjcking the whole show. I suggest initially a term of 2 years with the three lowest votes elected for initially 1 year then all elected for 2 years after the first year. Just a few overnight ideas. I don't go for the MP input as I feel politics is tainted by asociation but I do go for high profile figures of inegrity to be involved on a co-opted or presidential/vice presidential basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I share the misgivings of others who have waivered over the sense of ordinary working people putting their life savings forward to pay one weeks wages of some over paid premadonna, and the doubts over whether a fan based cooperative structure is viable going forwards. But if it's a choice between Southampton ceasing to be and me digging deep then dig I must. Put me down for £2500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 PS - why has Zero been removed as an option? Was wondering this myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersfield Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I share the misgivings of others who have waivered over the sense of ordinary working people putting their life savings forward to pay one weeks wages of some over paid premadonna, and the doubts over whether a fan based cooperative structure is viable going forwards. But if it's a choice between Southampton ceasing to be and me digging deep then dig I must. What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 The vehicle is already there in the Saints Trust, you just need some credible people to step up to the plate to run with this idea. IMHO even if there are some out there launching a bid with some "big" hitters, then I can't see why this could not be complmentary. Any money raised could be given to the Club in return for a stake or it could even just be loaned. Agreed, if we got someone of the ilk of Gavyn Davies involved, or preferably to lead it, this would give this option great credibility. Gavyn - if you're out there, how about it? Of course, also feel free to put together your own consortium! I voted to stick in £2.5k but could go higher if this is a truly viable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 April, 2009 (edited) I have just spoken to the administrators, the person there dealing with the administration spoke to me at length and expressed the view that they are interested in any initiative that benefits the company, much as we expected. There have been expressions of interest but the person dealing with those wasn't in the office, but would get back to me today to talk about the situation. I will post the information here. Edited 3 April, 2009 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I have just spoken to the administrators, the person there dealing with the administration spoke to me at length and expressed the view that they are interested in any initiative that benefits the company much as we expected. There have been expressions of interest but the person dealing with those wasn't in the office, but would get back to me today to talk about the situation. I will post the information here. Good work Derry. Open question - does anyone have any contacts with Saints fans with significant financial experience (doesn't have to be Gavyn Davies, but he'd be ideal!) that might want to get involved in this via SaintsTrust? No disprespect to those running SaintsTrust currently, but I think we'd need some real financial muscle/acumen to get this up and running, if indeed it's a viable option. Like most people my preference is for another consortium to come in, but at least this is an option, and may possibly stimulate other interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcalex4ever Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I'm a student and have a little bit of money saved from working part time, I would definately give £500 if it saved the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Good work Derry. Open question - does anyone have any contacts with Saints fans with significant financial experience (doesn't have to be Gavyn Davies, but he'd be ideal!) that might want to get involved in this via SaintsTrust? No disprespect to those running SaintsTrust currently, but I think we'd need some real financial muscle/acumen to get this up and running, if indeed it's a viable option. Like most people my preference is for another consortium to come in, but at least this is an option, and may possibly stimulate other interest... In my view that the Saints Trust are a tainted vehicle and only a new untainted organisation free of any association with the trust could take this initiative forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 My son and I are in Milan to watch AC this weekend (we are season ticket holders at SMS so the club has our money already). We have brought our Saints shirts to wear, we will try and tap up Golden Balls for a few quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 How many Industrial and Provident Societies do you expect to be promoted to the Premier League in the next ten years? This is fantasy land stuff. If you want Saints to be bumming about the bottom two divisions for ever, then go down this route. If the self satisfied smugness of being part of Kibbutz FC is your prime motivation, then this is the solution for you. Who's volunteering the home made cakes for the stall at half time? It's hilarious that when people rant about "greed" and "raw capitalism" then they always infer that the "suits" that are the problem. Bradley Wright Phillips will walk off with £1m for the course of his contract. Rudi Skacel is on nigh on £1m a year, every year, as was Rasiak and others. Do you think they are going to play for a club who uses the pitch to grow lettuce in the close season to make ends meet? Footballers are as "raw" and as "capitalist" as you could get yet its those in the ties that get all the stick. PS - why has Zero been removed as an option? Your negativity is fair enough. We have all been guilty of this. But for most of us any football club is better than none. So if we are bumming around in the lower divisions for a while so be it. The first aim is to save the club. With whatever means possible. 'Saints Forever' it must be. But 'forever in the lower divisions' it doesn't have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 If only 10,000,00 peeps paid £4 each............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian the Red Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Some very interesting comments on this thread and many that have made me think a little. If say 10,000 supporters put in £1000 each, that would generate £10m. If Southampton City Council were genuine in their interest in the ground then a rescue surely would not be out of the question. 10000 supporters could well be 6000 or even 5000, as I am sure there are of number of supporters who would invest more than £1000. I for one, having already lost £5k in shares would consider £10k in such a scheme. I am sure people like Crouch, maybe even Le Tiss, would be willing to invest even more. It would not take long to generate enough to buy back the club, providing the SCC were involved to help with the ground. To form a holding co would take a day; to sell 20,000 shares at say £500 each to generate the cash, say 7 - 10 days. Feasible. Thoughts please! COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 If only 10,000,00 peeps paid £4 each............. We'd have £4m, not nearly enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Between £400k and £500k pledged to date. Unable to be accurate because the top figures were changed to £5000 from £10000 and £10000 plus after a considerable amount had been pledged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I just can't get excited about people claiming they will put their hands in their pockets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 April, 2009 We'd have £4m, not nearly enough... To be a runner, buy SLH, with the existing debts of approx £6m, service the mortgage or buy SMS at maybe £10m, the figure needed would be between £20 to £35m. That would be required to keep the club working and moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 April, 2009 I just can't get excited about people claiming they will put their hands in their pockets... There is no excitement here, as the figure needs to be multiplied by 7/8 to even work. Still nice to know you won't help, it'll do your credibility on here the world of good when you next have a go at someone who has at least offered to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Dont think I want the trust running the club. Lets find a serious buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 To be a runner, buy SLH, with the existing debts of approx £6m, service the mortgage or buy SMS at maybe £10m, the figure needed would be between £20 to £35m. That would be required to keep the club working and moving forward. Agreed, that at least. Was just trying to point out the error in his maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 There is no excitement here, as the figure needs to be multiplied by 7/8 to even work. Still nice to know you won't help, it'll do your credibility on here the world of good when you next have a go at someone who has at least offered to help. I could make an empty gesture for credibilities sake but fail to see the point... As pointed out by CB Fry we're not some tinpot club here...and we're talking about serious sums of cash required. I'll just hope to god that one of the parties that has already shown an interest has the necessary funds to save our great football club and can get things moving in the right direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Still no 'under 500' option I see:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Adding the amounts of money from above, it works out at £442,750. That's a fair whack considering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysaint Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Still no 'under 500' option I see:( Any amount helps but you need a figure of say £100 being the minimum if you had 200 people who gave £100 that would be £20k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Adding the amounts of money from above, it works out at £442,750. That's a fair whack considering... Would atleast help the club see it through to the summer surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 (edited) Zero. Don't believe in the principle of fan ownership on this kind of scale, and especially as, say, £5k would pay the wages of Bradley Wright Phillips for one week. Any normal wage earner like me would have to be mental to put £5k in and it just shows how insignificant £500 would be. I agree completely with this, I wouldn't put anything in. I already spend over £1000 per season going to every game home and away, I don't see why I should put anymore money in. Edited 3 April, 2009 by Papa Shango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonbenali Posted 3 April, 2009 Share Posted 3 April, 2009 Why not do this as some kind of 20 year season ticket bond? You pay your £10k or whatever's realistic with several tiers and get an appropriate discount off season tickets for that time while the club gets the money now. Been done before hasn't it? Might mean more chipping in and guaranteed season ticket holders for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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