del boy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Talking of football - do you think they'll be able to get 11 for Saturday if there is no money left to pay the players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I must admit that this situation we are in is not as scary as people made out a couple of months ago! I for one am feeling quite confident today! I am also soooooo happy that the "unusual suspects" have all gone. I might even fly over for one of the last home games! We might not exist for one of our last home games, but as long as Lowe and Wilde are gone you are happy.:smt017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I must admit that this situation we are in is not as scary as people made out a couple of months ago! I for one am feeling quite confident today! I am also soooooo happy that the "unusual suspects" have all gone. I might even fly over for one of the last home games! Can I have some of what you're on :smt017 the phrase 'enough cash to last until the end of the season' causes me more worry than even the threat of points deduction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Snippits from press conference on SSN now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Talking of football - do you think they'll be able to get 11 for Saturday if there is no money left to pay the players? If the fans are being asked to do their bit, then what about the players ? Lets see them do their bit and play for nothing for a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I thought the employees of a company were like all other creditors when it comes to administration/liquidation? They have to wait in line for payment, which is why the PFA often step in to help pay wages in times like this. Of course, when these highly paid players are told to 'get in the queue' they can always just walk... No,that isn't the case at all. Preferential creditors I think.As long as the club is deemed a going concern (provided they are employed by SFC Ltd) we owe them their salary. This is why the admins say we're no longer viable beyond the end of the season.Obviously if the club can't pay the PFA might step in. But as we're trying to create the illusion that the club is viable and solvent (so as not to get -10 )not paying wages and asking for PFA intervention is a big no no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Do we know which entity owes the installment money to Notts County on McGoldrick? That might end up being a fairly key point in the deduction issue if it isn't paid. Apologies if I've missed this somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I expect SLH own the Stadium Subsidiary which is around 25mil of the debt. You can expect SLH have the overdraft as Barclays would want it against fixed assets rather than players It ain't about how you get it, it's about where it is when the music stops, as long as it was legal IMHO Thats what Ken Bates thought. If Saints are let off, there will be legal action from at least half a dozen clubs, the ones who have been in admin and the ones who get relegated because there was no deduction. Its much simpler for the FA/FL to take off the points and then deal with one club should they want to fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Chuckle Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Not sure if already been posted but here’s the info on those in charge now: http://www.begbies-traynor.com/david_hudson/29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Can I have some of what you're on :smt017 the phrase 'enough cash to last until the end of the season' causes me more worry than even the threat of points deduction! That bugs me as well Yesterday the story was we went into admin because we were insolvent Today they have cash until the end of the season How? (OK I know there was the issue of the accounts but if we had cash until the end of the season and not 6 months that we are supposed to state but then we had the likelihood of ST revenues.) hmmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 No,that isn't the case at all. Preferential creditors I think.As long as the club is deemed a going concern (provided they are employed by SFC Ltd) we owe them their salary. This is why the admins say we're no longer viable beyond the end of the season.Obviously if the club can't pay the PFA might step in. But as we're trying to create the illusion that the club is viable and solvent (so as not to get -10 )not paying wages and asking for PFA intervention is a big no no. Thanks, I wasn't sure there. I just remember seeing staff of AIG (I think) being kicked out of their offices without notice having had their employment terminated. I didn't know if that was one of the 'tools' of the administrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Not sure if already been posted but here’s the info on those in charge now: http://www.begbies-traynor.com/david_hudson/29 Did someone say they did Bournemouth FC admin?? Isn't that a but of a f*cking mess right now? I lost track of it when LifeLong got involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 That bugs me as well Yesterday the story was we went into admin because we were insolvent Today they have cash until the end of the season How? (OK I know there was the issue of the accounts but if we had cash until the end of the season and not 6 months that we are supposed to state but then we had the likelihood of ST revenues.) hmmmmmmmmm 58 to go until the big 4000 or are you planning on retiring on 3999????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Thats what Ken Bates thought. If Saints are let off, there will be legal action from at least half a dozen clubs, the ones who have been in admin and the ones who get relegated because there was no deduction. Its much simpler for the FA/FL to take off the points and then deal with one club should they want to fight it. Not saying it would happen but Would the FL take the risk of relegating us THEN having the legal battle. how much compensation would there be liable if the FL actually LOST the appeal (not in the Sheff U league but probably a lot) So is more likely in that case to apply the penalty in CCC for next season IF the rules are not watertight and then spend the summer in court This is why it is a lawyers game not ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Thanks, I wasn't sure there. I just remember seeing staff of AIG (I think) being kicked out of their offices without notice having had their employment terminated. I didn't know if that was one of the 'tools' of the administrators. Labour Law (or Labor Law as they would have it) is a complete circus in the US. Very few employees have any rights. The company is in difficulty? well thanks and goodbye cos we have to "let you go" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 That bugs me as well Yesterday the story was we went into admin because we were insolvent Today they have cash until the end of the season How? (OK I know there was the issue of the accounts but if we had cash until the end of the season and not 6 months that we are supposed to state but then we had the likelihood of ST revenues.) hmmmmmmmmm My guess is that by going into administration, there is a period of time in which the creditors can't call in the debts, so by saying we have cash is probably false, and in fact we're just running up the tab for a few more weeks in the hope of investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 That bugs me as well Yesterday the story was we went into admin because we were insolvent Today they have cash until the end of the season How? (OK I know there was the issue of the accounts but if we had cash until the end of the season and not 6 months that we are supposed to state but then we had the likelihood of ST revenues.) hmmmmmmmmm Perhaps the decision was that with the relevant parties in charge (we all know who) investment would not be forthcoming. So maybe they made the decision to get rid and carry on knowing they could afford to stay affloat until the end of the season. Or... Perhaps the plug was pulled and then barclays have given extra funds (or perhaps the admin team) to ensure they can get investment. If the club went now, nobody would be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Not saying it would happen but Would the FL take the risk of relegating us THEN having the legal battle. how much compensation would there be liable if the FL actually LOST the appeal (not in the Sheff U league but probably a lot) So is more likely in that case to apply the penalty in CCC for next season IF the rules are not watertight and then spend the summer in court This is why it is a lawyers game not ours I think there maybe a compromise.We'll promise to not play very well (as per usual) and go down quietly and they'll not dock us 10 next season. Nah, no Machiavellis at the Football League surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 We might not exist for one of our last home games, but as long as Lowe and Wilde are gone you are happy.:smt017 Can I have some of what you're on :smt017 the phrase 'enough cash to last until the end of the season' causes me more worry than even the threat of points deduction! Obviously a bit of sunshine makes the future look brighter! Yes I am happy that they have gone, and from one source we haven´t got 'enough cash to last until the end of the season' and another source quoted on the same thread i read earlier said we have a 'enough cash to last until the end of the season', so it all boils down to if you see the glass as half empty or half full! I believe we will find a buyer and don´t for one minute believe we will cease to exist! (hope i´m not proved wrong!) Maybe it is time for all the doom and gloom merchants to look forward to a hopefully bright future! COYR!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Trying to stay positive, all we know is that Lowe/Wilde could'nt find a buyer. Now they have gone maybe the field will open up. And I honestly think that Lowe was never seriously looking for one, well, not until it was too late anyway. ***t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Labour Law (or Labor Law as they would have it) is a complete circus in the US. Very few employees have any rights. The company is in difficulty? well thanks and goodbye cos we have to "let you go" Of course, I knew there was an important distinction, that was in the US. Thank god for the EU and protection of employment rights then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 My guess is that by going into administration, there is a period of time in which the creditors can't call in the debts, so by saying we have cash is probably false, and in fact we're just running up the tab for a few more weeks in the hope of investment. Administration protects assets for a certain period. meaning no-one can sue us for 15 bob and walk away with the keys to SMS.In the US it's called Section 11 I think.It's designed to ensure that all creditors get a fair deal and some loud mouthed process slinger gets his and everybody else (including the staff) get f all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Maybe it is time for all the doom and gloom merchants to look forward to a hopefully bright future! COYR!! I'm no doom and gloom merchant (don't usually post on this forum for starters), but I am a realist and there's not a lot of money floating around the economy at the moment, and we're only solvent for a few more weeks. Tbh for the security of the clubs long term future, and no points deduction, I wouldn't care who bought the club off the administrators, whether it be the devil himself, or even Satan for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Administration protects assets for a certain period. meaning no-one can sue us for 15 bob and walk away with the keys to SMS.In the US it's called Section 11 I think.It's designed to ensure that all creditors get a fair deal and some loud mouthed process slinger gets his and everybody else (including the staff) get f all. That's right, Chapter 11 in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 That bugs me as well Yesterday the story was we went into admin because we were insolvent Today they have cash until the end of the season How? (OK I know there was the issue of the accounts but if we had cash until the end of the season and not 6 months that we are supposed to state but then we had the likelihood of ST revenues.) hmmmmmmmmm SSN also reported (from the Press Conference) that the football club may not survive to the end of the season. So do we have cash until the end of the season, or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I really am attempting to be optimistic but with the language that was used in the interview was pretty damning. I hope i really do we are ok after this but with major companies and financial institutions falling down all over the place i am begginning to get a little restless. If only i had won the euro-millions a little while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I'm no doom and gloom merchant (don't usually post on this forum for starters), but I am a realist and there's not a lot of money floating around the economy at the moment, and we're only solvent for a few more weeks. Tbh for the security of the clubs long term future, and no points deduction, I wouldn't care who bought the club off the administrators, whether it be the devil himself, or even Satan for that matter. Tbh aren´t Satan and the devil one and the same? Anyway didn´t mean you particularly (no offense intended) However if he did buy the club their may be a conflict of interests as there is already a club nicknamed the "red devils" !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 SSN also reported (from the Press Conference) that the football club may not survive to the end of the season. So do we have cash until the end of the season, or not? If I understand Window Cleaner, it's not that we've got cash, but more that no-one can sue to wind us up, and we can continue trading for a period of time in the hope of someone buying as us a going concern. Now whether going into admin was specifically timed to ensure that this period coincided with getting through to the end of the season, I don't know :smt017 SSN, like most tabloid journalism, will look to spin the most dramatic aspect of the story, even if the truth is a little stretched... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Tbh aren´t Satan and the devil one and the same? Anyway didn´t mean you particularly (no offense intended) However if he did buy the club their may be a conflict of interests as there is already a club nicknamed the "red devils" !! sorry, I was trying to imply that the devil = Lowe (blame it on the cold & flu remedies!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 All us fans can do is support the team week in and week out and try and give the club a little extra ££ With our support we CAN lift the team and stay up! COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 That bugs me as well Yesterday the story was we went into admin because we were insolvent Today they have cash until the end of the season How? (OK I know there was the issue of the accounts but if we had cash until the end of the season and not 6 months that we are supposed to state but then we had the likelihood of ST revenues.) hmmmmmmmmm At the beggining of the interview, I thought the administrator said the club decided to call in the administrators. Don't know if this makes a difference or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 I'm a bit puzzled that the administrator said that the football board directors will continue to run SFC. I know Wilde and Lowe have left SLH. Are they still SFC directors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 The full thing is up now on the Echo site http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4255819.Live_press_conference_from_St__Mary_s/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 The full thing is up now on the Echo site http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4255819.Live_press_conference_from_St__Mary_s/ Cheers Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 At the beggining of the interview, I thought the administrator said the club decided to call in the administrators. Don't know if this makes a difference or not. Perhaps the accounting has been managed so that the PLC owes the club money. I mean it's possible that the club gets the gate and TV money, pays rent to the Stadium Ltd,buys the players ,sells the players,pays fee for "management services "to the PLC and loans the PLC any excedent finance for retail services etc. In fact the very statement that the Football Club ltd is a separate entity must mean that it was merely paying rent to play at the Stadium, otherwise it wouldn't be a separate entity at all.As we sold lots of players last season and had a whacking great + on the club books for that +12.1 million I think, then setting say a 2 million rental fee for the use of SMS (all other revenues for catering and stuff going to the PLC) against the matchday and TV revenue and deducting player salaries,academy costs,coaching and travelling expenses it could well be that the actual FC Ltd, shows up as a going concern but is plumbed by having loaned money to the parent company (PLC) against loss making catering or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Majestic Channon Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Why the hell did solent cut the press conference short just to summarise what had already been said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 "David Jones and a gentleman by the name of Teddy Pointon (sic) are running the football club." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 "David Jones and a gentleman by the name of Teddy Pointon (sic) are running the football club." At least there's nothing much they can get horribly wrong on that front at this stage of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Perhaps the accounting has been managed so that the PLC owes the club money. I mean it's possible that the club gets the gate and TV money, pays rent to the Stadium Ltd,buys the players ,sells the players,pays fee for "management services "to the PLC and loans the PLC any excedent finance for retail services etc. In fact the very statement that the Football Club ltd is a separate entity must mean that it was merely paying rent to play at the Stadium, otherwise it wouldn't be a separate entity at all.As we sold lots of players last season and had a whacking great + on the club books for that +12.1 million I think, then setting say a 2 million rental fee for the use of SMS (all other revenues for catering and stuff going to the PLC) against the matchday and TV revenue and deducting player salaries,academy costs,coaching and travelling expenses it could well be that the actual FC Ltd, shows up as a going concern but is plumbed by having loaned money to the parent company (PLC) against loss making catering or something like that. phew glald you cleared that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 So from that it is clear that only Jones remains with Pointon guy as directors of the club. Meaning Wilde,Lowe,Crouch etc are all now 100% gone from all of the boards right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 "David Jones and a gentleman by the name of Teddy Pointon (sic) are running the football club." Teddy Pointon being?? Would that be short for Edward or Theodore do you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 So from that it is clear that only Jones remains with Pointon guy as directors of the club. Meaning Wilde,Lowe,Crouch etc are all now 100% gone from all of the boards right? Yep! They Admin Guy was asked if Lowe was still involved and he confirmed that he was no longer involved in running the company nor the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 That bugs me as well Yesterday the story was we went into admin because we were insolvent Today they have cash until the end of the season How? (OK I know there was the issue of the accounts but if we had cash until the end of the season and not 6 months that we are supposed to state but then we had the likelihood of ST revenues.) hmmmmmmmmm "cash to the end of the season" will likely include expected gate receipts from the last few games and possibly whatever prize money we will be due for our final league position. If they shut the doors today they wouldn't get any of this. Also sometimes the Bank will agree to fund a trading loss for a period of time in oder to be able to help the administrators get a higher price in the long run. The choice is between letting the administrator (who will set up a brand new bank account for the administration period as the Club's account will be frozen) have an overdraft to trade to the end of the season and hopefully sell the club for a bit extra or not let teh administrator have any room to work with and force him to shut down the Company on day 1 resulting in not being able to sell the club at all. Not saying this is definately what is going on but it would not be ususal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 "whatever prize money we will be due Didn't know there was any in the CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Just watched the press conference. More depressed than ever. That bloke doesn't think we've got an earthly chance, does he? Thing is, if it was Rupert Lowe with a plan to save the club or nothing, i still think we should take the former. Otherwise it will be no more club at all. Shocking. Just shows what an idiot Lowe has been, mortgaging away our future, making appalling appointments, and generally thinking he knew it all. He actually new stuff all. Time for Craig Daaaavid to get his wallet out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Hmmm, lets petition soccer AM, apparantly the Rock is on it, surely he knows somebody to buy the club ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 He sounded like a bit of a geeeeeza didn't he.. I keep waitin for him to say "thats what I'm talkin about!", Apprentice style! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Just watched the press conference. More depressed than ever. That bloke doesn't think we've got an earthly chance, does he? Thing is, if it was Rupert Lowe with a plan to save the club or nothing, i still think we should take the former. Otherwise it will be no more club at all. Shocking. Just shows what an idiot Lowe has been, mortgaging away our future, making appalling appointments, and generally thinking he knew it all. He actually new stuff all. Time for Craig Daaaavid to get his wallet out... To be fair it wasn't Lowe who mortgaged our future away, it was Wilde, Lowe just presided over it (I'm not saying he's blameless by a long stretch). Wilde is the man that has ****ed this club up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 To be fair it wasn't Lowe who mortgaged our future away, it was Wilde, Lowe just presided over it (I'm not saying he's blameless by a long stretch). Wilde is the man that has ****ed this club up. The trouble is Wilde's side got to the play-offs-despite having an absolutely useless **** of a manager. Then the next season we were absolutely f*cking terrible despite yet more serious spending. Really on the face of it only Burley and the overpaid,underperformers are to blame.I mean I know you all like to rant on about this chairman and that director but at the end of the day if the players are inconsistent and the manager doesn't give a f*ck how is that the board's fault.you buy players, they do a reasonable job, you fall at the Canal Turn second time round, so you put the same horse with the same jockey next year and it falls at the first sodding fence.No chairman or director can plan for that sort of sh*t.You have to give players of "renown" decent contracts, if they don't deliver you're fugged,twice over even.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_John Posted 2 April, 2009 Share Posted 2 April, 2009 Meaning we borrowed money from somewhere other than Barclay's to partially pay back Barclay's to carry on trading ??? Or we owe money to other clubs that we didn't at the end of last season,or we haven't been paying our VAT.. There was another loan of £1M taken out in the 2002-2003 season that the dark lord used to buy shares with which we probably still owe about £500k on. That loan can be seen in the 2003 EOY accounts :- (http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=446&NewsType=CDP&Indate=03/09/2003 "Purchase of own shares (1,104,955) " "Bank loans....................1,000,000 " That loan was for 10 years repayable in quarterly installments at 2% over bank rate. Those Share Buybacks were :- (1) 19 to 24 June 2002 http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=2186&NewsType=CDP&Indate=19/06/2002 for shares from Merrill Lynch http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=1680&NewsType=CDP&Indate=24/06/2002 (2) 14 to 17 Oct 2002 http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=1637&NewsType=CDP&Indate=14/10/2002 http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=1142&NewsType=CDP&Indate=17/10/2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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