Doctoroncall Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Here's a question IF a club is in admin but somebody agrees to buy it, I assume the shareholders would get nothing, but IF the buyers agree to pay the debts or agree with the creditors, how does that affect the points deduction? The rules are there to stop clubs doing the dirty on creditors or what? No idea Shareholders get nothing (me being one of them ). if club is bought with the debt, no points deduction (no rules have been broken). depends on the creditors (ken bates).
bristolsaint29 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Sat here not really too sure where we'll go as a club from here, but for the first time in a long time I feel positive about the club and have a stupid inane grin on my face. Me thinks it may be drinks all round tonight
SW11_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 SSN Breaking News - LOWE, COWEN AND WILDE RESIGN FROM CLUB BOARD...
Spades Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 SSN Breaking News - LOWE, COWEN AND WILDE RESIGN FROM CLUB BOARD... We know...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Seeing as Wilde Lowe and Cowen have resigned from the Football Club Board... who is now running the football club? Is Mark Wotte now a 1 man band? He wasn't ever on any board, he's the head coach. The administrators are running everything. The football club lost the money by hiring (crap) players they couldn't afford and selling better ones to pay for them. The "staff" will be expected to carry on as usual and I presume the administrative duo will have some sort of sports advisor to guide them as part of their team. This is another reason I won't pay £280 for the airfare and £80 hotel bill tomorrow, I just couldn't bear to see those overpaid pr@ts strolling around doing f**k all because they know that whatever happens to the club and the younger players they'll not be here in a month's time.. If Wotte drops them or they issue a statement saying they'll play for free for the rest of the season I'll see you all there.
Super Ken Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is there a danger here that Lowe and Wilde will come in and buy SLH/SFC back for a cursory sum and actually consolidate their hold on the club. Didn't Ken Bates do this at Leeds? Surely it means someone needs to come in with a better offer than the gruesome twosome may or may not put together? Or am I missing something?
a1ex2001 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Given all the people on here who have said they're staying away because of Lowe should we expect a sell out on saturday?
northam soul Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Who owns all the assests such as staplewood and jacksons farm - is it Southampton leisure holdings or southampton football club ltd as that will have a big impact on what rises from the ashes.
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Given all the people on here who have said they're staying away because of Lowe should we expect a sell out on saturday? I don't think we have that many posters.
SW11_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is there a danger here that Lowe and Wilde will come in and buy SLH/SFC back for a cursory sum and actually consolidate their hold on the club. Didn't Ken Bates do this at Leeds? Surely it means someone needs to come in with a better offer than the gruesome twosome may or may not put together? Or am I missing something? From another thread, by Exit2 - Wilde and Lowe have just been escorted from the premises Also apparently Lowe has said "that there is nothing to stop him purchasing the company form the administrators" So, yes, your fears may be justfified, but is he really that much of a pr1ck/egotist....? Yes, of course he is. But does he have the money? Would the Admins deem him a good buyer, given his key role in where we are now??
a1ex2001 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is there a danger here that Lowe and Wilde will come in and buy SLH/SFC back for a cursory sum and actually consolidate their hold on the club. Didn't Ken Bates do this at Leeds? Surely it means someone needs to come in with a better offer than the gruesome twosome may or may not put together? Or am I missing something? You are missing nothing, anyone can make an offer incluing that pair.
SW11_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Given all the people on here who have said they're staying away because of Lowe should we expect a sell out on saturday? Suspect it will be at least be near 30k.
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 From another thread, by Exit2 - So, yes, your fears may be justfified, but is he really that much of a pr1ck/egotist....? Yes, of course he is. But does he have the money? Would the Admins deem him a good buyer, given his key role in where we are now?? A "good buyer" is whoever has the most money on offer. This isn't a Malawian adoption you know,the PLC owes money, the administrators job is to recover as much as is possible for the creditors. I don't think Lowe has anywhere near enough, Wilde will just give the place a wide berth from here onwards. Don't dream about Crouch either, serious money is required.Not 2 million £ attached to his pocket with a bit of knicker elastic.
saintsforlife7 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11582 Says club can run until end of season, if no buyer will cease to exist
Lets B Avenue Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Given all the people on here who have said they're staying away because of Lowe should we expect a sell out on saturday? Has there been 17,000 posting this then? I thought the forum had been a lot slower.
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is there a danger here that Lowe and Wilde will come in and buy SLH/SFC back for a cursory sum and actually consolidate their hold on the club. Didn't Ken Bates do this at Leeds? Surely it means someone needs to come in with a better offer than the gruesome twosome may or may not put together? Or am I missing something? Leeds creditors were largely private, like Bates who had already loaned them 15 million, he was just paying himself back. I can't remeber the precise details but it was the IR who got shafted in the main.
Doctoroncall Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is there a danger here that Lowe and Wilde will come in and buy SLH/SFC back for a cursory sum and actually consolidate their hold on the club. Didn't Ken Bates do this at Leeds? Surely it means someone needs to come in with a better offer than the gruesome twosome may or may not put together? Or am I missing something? different circumstances as Leeds football club went into administration and the biggest creditor back Bates rather than the best price offered (two other bids were higher). Obvioulsy shady dealings going on! With Saints, it should be best offer wins the race for the club. Conceivable as the debt is with the plc, some could be written-off, others renegotiated. If the FL do not like the deal, it'll be a 10 pt penalty. If that is imposed then: survive relegation, if 10 pts will see us back in the bottom three, we go down. finish in the bottom three, 10pt deduction next season in lg 1 somehow survive and 10pts above relegation zone, start -10 in CCC next season.
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11582 Says club can run until end of season, if no buyer will cease to exist It also says the club continues under "it's directors" who's that then.
SW11_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 A "good buyer" is whoever has the most money on offer. This isn't a Malawian adoption you know,the PLC owes money, the administrators job is to recover as much as is possible for the creditors. I don't think Lowe has anywhere near enough, Wilde will just give the place a wide berth from here onwards. Don't dream about Crouch either, serious money is required.Not 2 million £ attached to his pocket with a bit of knicker elastic. Don't believe that is necessarily the whole truth - Administrators also have to look at who would provide the best chance of the entity being a going concern over a period of time, and that would involve ensuring that the 'buyer' is stable and not just a short-term fix. Otherwise any tom-d1ck-or money launderer could thrown down some cash and get the deal. Who mentioned Crouch?!? Not me. As far as I am concerned Lowe, Wilde, Crouch have all had their time (although I would say Leon's heart was at least in the right place - but that isn't enough). We need a heavy-hitter if we're going to move forward and prosper.
The9 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Ground share basis? why not, we can't pay what we owe and N.U will want to get some money from whoever they can. Don't forget to buy a big bottle of Dettol to scrub your seat down every other week then. I dunno if you've noticed but they've already got a ground they can't fill.
spain saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 anyone able to post what happened in the press conference yet?
bridge too far Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 anyone able to post what happened in the press conference yet? See Press Conference thread. HTH
spain saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 See Press Conference thread. HTH Thankyou! I thought everything was on here! Itindeed did help!
derry Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 The football league/FA will be very careful about imposing a penalty on a 'club' that doesn't go into administration. If they do, stand by for a court case, as their rules insist that holding company administrations are unconnected to 'clubs' which are separate trading entities. Southampton FC in accordance with the rules have been set up as a company in it's own right and as long as it is trading, solvent and pays it's 'football related debts' in full, would fulfill all the criteria, therefore the FA/League would not be able to interfere, without the danger of being sued and should it be proved relegation happened as a consequence of their unlawful actions would have to pay large damages.
spain saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 See Press Conference thread. HTH It did indeed help, Thankyou! I thought everything was on this thread! I am so confused with what is going on.
Junction 9 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is it the case that we cannot lose 10 points this season or not? The deadline line has passed so I thought. If that's the case then surely the remaining games are just as important. Seems to be a lot of "what's the point?" type posts flying about.
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Why can't we buy the club? The Fans? Because we don't have enough money? The trust managed to find people to buy a whole 20000 shares,where are you all suddenly going to get even a fair percentage of 30 million from.
Pancake Posted 2 April, 2009 Author Posted 2 April, 2009 It did indeed help, Thankyou! I thought everything was on this thread! I am so confused with what is going on. Well, some users cant help themselves from starting new threads to boost the ol' ego.
Scummer Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is it the case that we cannot lose 10 points this season or not? The deadline line has passed so I thought. If that's the case then surely the remaining games are just as important. Seems to be a lot of "what's the point?" type posts flying about. If we stayed up, but by less than ten points, they'd be deducted at the end of this season. If we go down anyway we'll get the deduction next year.
Pancake Posted 2 April, 2009 Author Posted 2 April, 2009 Is it the case that we cannot lose 10 points this season or not? The deadline line has passed so I thought. If that's the case then surely the remaining games are just as important. Seems to be a lot of "what's the point?" type posts flying about. If the FL DO deem our escape to be worthy of points deductions, then: If we finish in the bottom 3, the points come off at the start of next season in L1 If we finish less than 10 points above the drop, the points come off this season and we go down, someone else survives If we finish over 10 points above relegation, then the points come off at the start of next season in the CCC
Junction 9 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 If we stayed up, but by less than ten points, they'd be deducted at the end of this season. If we go down anyway we'll get the deduction next year. So we are down then?
Pancake Posted 2 April, 2009 Author Posted 2 April, 2009 So we are down then? At the moment, it is believed that due to the way SFC operate with the PLC holding co. that we (SFC) will not be given a points deduction. So, bearing that in mind, assuming we finish 4th bottom, we are safe.
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 To sum up the press conference guys. There is interest in the club they are hopeful of making a sale but not confident (he said this alot and he really di not sound confident) due to financial climate. Club will be run till the end of the season. Fans need to help by turning up, helping to sell the club. SLH and SFC are in law different and they are working with the FL to avoid penalty. SLH has big(ish) assets i.e jacksons farm and training ground. The delay this morning was due to interest that appeared yesturday but the party could not prove a sound financial package (the deadline was originally 5pm yest, but was extended till 11) Then we were able to listen to Moving on up by M people. If i have missed anything i apologize.
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Is it the case that we cannot lose 10 points this season or not? The deadline line has passed so I thought. If that's the case then surely the remaining games are just as important. Seems to be a lot of "what's the point?" type posts flying about. No because if you go into admin after the deadline and avoid relegation by doing so you get hit with -10 for the present season.If you're not 10 points and a better GD above the last relegation place you go down. End of. We will get -10 and we will go down.Count on it.Otherwise football clubs will just run under an umbrella company, spend money reckless and when they can't pay they will say Oh it's not us it's them.When the FA asks for proof of how a holding company that does very little else than run a football club can run up 30 million debts it's another matter. Unless of course the administrators can persuade the league that our football expenses ie Match day revenue+TV money actually cover all the footballing costs, players, travelling, theoretical rent of stadium etc we will get nothing but a sharp kick in the ass. The annual accounts say otherwise TV revenue + Matchday don't even cover last seasons player+coach salary bill, let alone travelling etc.
Junction 9 Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 I would be amazed if we escape a points deduction. If we came 4th from bottom this year surely the team below us would immediately start legal proceedings to challenge it's legality? I wouldn't blame them either.
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11582 Posted on conference thread but hell, if anyone is not reading that one here is interview
derry Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 No because if you go into admin after the deadline and avoid relegation by doing so you get hit with -10 for the present season.If you're not 10 points and a better GD above the last relegation place you go down. End of. We will get -10 and we will go down.Count on it.Otherwise football clubs will just run under an umbrella company, spend money reckless and when they can't pay they will say Oh it's not us it's them.When the FA asks for proof of how a holding company that does very little else than run a football club can run up 30 million debts it's another matter. Unless of course the administrators can persuade the league that our football expenses ie Match day revenue+TV money actually cover all the footballing costs, players, travelling, theoretical rent of stadium etc we will get nothing but a sharp kick in the ass. The annual accounts say otherwise TV revenue + Matchday don't even cover last seasons player+coach salary bill, let alone travelling etc. Derby's holding company went into administration but the football club didn't, there was no points deduction.
thorpie the sinner Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 To sum up the press conference guys. There is interest in the club they are hopeful of making a sale but not confident (he said this alot and he really di not sound confident) due to financial climate. Club will be run till the end of the season. Fans need to help by turning up, helping to sell the club. SLH and SFC are in law different and they are working with the FL to avoid penalty. SLH has big(ish) assets i.e jacksons farm and training ground. The delay this morning was due to interest that appeared yesturday but the party could not prove a sound financial package (the deadline was originally 5pm yest, but was extended till 11) Then we were able to listen to Moving on up by M people. If i have missed anything i apologize. I did like the M people bit!! We do have a good sense of humour at least!!
Scummer Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 What other clubs have our administrators dealt with? Their most recent example given is Bournemouth, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Their top man is Krasner isn't it, who made a right mess of Leeds.
Lets B Avenue Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 The delay this morning was due to interest that appeared yesturday but the party could not prove a sound financial package (the deadline was originally 5pm yest, but was extended till 11) Bloody Falsehope getting in the way again?
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 I did like the M people bit!! We do have a good sense of humour at least!! It was pretty terrible, but then what can you expect from a radio station akin to alan partridge ?? Lol To some it up the woman afterwards was saying, oh my god, i thought we were in 100's of thousands of debt not over 30 mil. !! Lol
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Oh yeah, that was the bit i missed sorry guys. The club is also in OVER 30 million pounds worth of debt. So more than we all thought.
Pancake Posted 2 April, 2009 Author Posted 2 April, 2009 Oh yeah, that was the bit i missed sorry guys. The club is also in OVER 30 million pounds worth of debt. So more than we all thought. I though we all assumed it was c.25Million on the stadium and c.5Million to Barclays?
derry Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 Fry says the holding company is in administration and owns the shares of the football club which is just an asset of the holding company. He also said because of it's relationship with the holding company the club is in jeopardy.
derry Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 I though we all assumed it was c.25Million on the stadium and c.5Million to Barclays? McMenemy on sky said he understood £24m on 25 year mortgage and an overdraft of £4m.
Doctoroncall Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 What other clubs have our administrators dealt with? Their most recent example given is Bournemouth, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Their top man is Krasner isn't it, who made a right mess of Leeds. I think you'll be alone on that as Krasner was generally thought good at stabilising the huge debt and out goings, or where you expecting a miracle?
Pancake Posted 2 April, 2009 Author Posted 2 April, 2009 McMenemy on sky said he understood £24m on 25 year mortgage and an overdraft of £4m. So just over 2 million on extras we were not "sure" about before hand. Thats basically a few months debt to suppliers etc; not actually too shocking really.
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 April, 2009 Posted 2 April, 2009 So just over 2 million on extras we were not "sure" about before hand. Thats basically a few months debt to suppliers etc; not actually too shocking really. Pretty much i think but the admin guy was not too specific. He just said that the debt was over 30 mil, now it could just be a tad over or a lot over. Depends on how he equates things in his own head i guess.
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