What is going on at SFC - Discussion

[thorpie the sinner]

There was a press conference at 10am, give it time.

 

surely the LSE would have been informed first, I thought that was the legal requirement!

[sotonjoe]

There was a press conference at 10am, give it time.

 

 

Did this definitely happen?

[Weston Saint]

surely the LSE would have been informed first, I thought that was the legal requirement!

Only if Administrators were appointed at 10am.

[Clapham Saint]

Can't believe we won't get the points deduction. By trying to cheat the system we could end up even worse off, i.e Leeds two years ago with a 15 point penalty.

 

Odds have slashed by the way, best price available as short as 1/2.

 

In short we are F U C K E D.

 

R.I.P SFC

 

Lowe and Wilde die now please.

 

Except that...

 

If there were the hypothetical stituation where by a wealth Individual buys a club and borrows a load of money personally, with which he buys a stadium for his team to play in and uses income from the club to help him make the loan repayments.

 

If that individual then went Bankrupt and so had to sell the club would there be a clamour for the F.A. to deduct points from the team?

 

I suspect not.

 

It could be argued that we are in the same situation, the bankrupt owner just happens to be a company.

 

Not saying that the F.A. will definately see it that way but...

[Pancake]

There was a press conference at 10am, give it time.

 

No-one is covering it if there is/was one.

 

Im guessing it will be later in they day. And dont forget that you WILL see if on the AIM website seconds before...

[dubai_phil]

its 10am and no announcement!!!!!

 

Must be G20 protestors stopping people getting to work

[Saint_clark]

No-one is covering it if there is/was one.

 

Im guessing it will be later in they day. And dont forget that you WILL see if on the AIM website seconds before...

 

Fair enough, I was going by the rumours.

[OldNick]

I would have thought that it would be paid back by any sales of players etc.

but not in full. they will get just a part of the money owed the same as any other suppliers.

Will there be drink and pies etc on sale tomorrow as the suppliers will want to be paid up front?

[thorpie the sinner]

Must be G20 protestors stopping people getting to work

 

I forgot about the bloody protestors!!! lol

[AwaySaint1]

Will there be drink and pies etc on sale tomorrow as the suppliers will want to be paid up front?

 

Why sell pies on Friday when they will sell far more on Saturday.

[bridge too far]

Stuff posted on the LSE website is usually delayed by about 15 minutes too.

 

Sooooooo.............

 

Any minute now.............

 

(or later, or tomorrow, or next year - whatever)

[trousers]

Stuff posted on the LSE website is usually delayed by about 15 minutes too.

 

Sooooooo.............

 

Any minute now.............

 

(or later, or tomorrow, or next year - whatever)

 

Anyone know why has the 'market cap' figure on the LSE website gone back up to £4.14m

 

(it went down to under £3m when the share price dipped to 9p before being suspended)

[OldNick]

Why sell pies on Friday when they will sell far more on Saturday.

good point, they would be fresher as well. Lol

[superstevesaints]

LOWE AND WILDE HAVE RESIGNED !!!

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4254471.Lowe_and_Wilde_resign_from_Saints/

[Pancake]

So...... nout?

[bridge too far]

Anyone know why has the 'market cap' figure on the LSE website gone back up to £4.14m

 

(it went down to under £3m when the share price dipped to 9p before being suspended)

 

Trousers, I'd always assumed (although I never did the maths) that the share price was multiplied by the number of shares in circulation to give the market cap price.

 

As the LSE is currently showing NO price for the shares, maybe they're just plucking an arbitrary figure from the air :smt102

[Pancake]

LOWE AND WILDE HAVE RESIGNED !!!

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4254471.Lowe_and_Wilde_resign_from_Saints/

 

Thats an old article, nothing is definite as yet...

[a1ex2001]

LOWE AND WILDE HAVE RESIGNED !!!

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4254471.Lowe_and_Wilde_resign_from_Saints/

 

It doesn't say that it says they will, personally I'll only believe it when it's on the AIM website.

[sotonjoe]

Thats an old article, nothing is definite as yet...

 

 

REPOST-TASTIC!

[dubai_phil]

For want of a horse the message was lost

 

Wonder where that nail is

[Johnny Bognor]

It doesn't say that it says they will, personally I'll only believe it when it's on the AIM website.

 

Will the LSE website crash (like SWF) with a high number of people in the SO postcode hitting F5 every few seconds?

[trousers]

Trousers, I'd always assumed (although I never did the maths) that the share price was multiplied by the number of shares in circulation to give the market cap price.

 

As the LSE is currently showing NO price for the shares, maybe they're just plucking an arbitrary figure from the air :smt102

 

Maybe £4.14m is some sort of 'solvency' threshold that our share priced dragged us under thus triggering the events of the last few days?

[bridge too far]

Will the LSE website crash (like SWF) with a high number of people in the SO postcode hitting F5 every few seconds?

 

And the OX one too, I'll have you know

[derry]

The FA can hardly complain now, it was to comply with the FA's rules that the Football Club had to be an independent company from the PLC with it's own board and finances and football responsibilities subservient to the FA rules.

 

They are responsible for the separate entities and have shot themselves in the foot provided the football 'club' doesn't go into administration and continues to trade legally.

[Pancake]

The FA can hardly complain now, it was to comply with the FA's rules that the Football Club had to be an independent company from the PLC with it's own board and finances and football responsibilities subservient to the FA rules.

 

They are responsible for the separate entities and have shot themselves in the foot provided the football 'club' doesn't go into administration and continues to trade legally.

 

But is it the Football League, not the FA that have the option to dish out points penalties.

[Victor]

good point, they would be fresher as well. Lol

 

Surely they will be a day older.

[Winchester Exile]

I know people have views on various points about this but in my opinion the resignations and points deduction (or not!) are side issues because unless the administrators find investors there will be no football club. It's as simple as that.

[itchen]

I know people have views on various points about this but in my opinion the resignations and points deduction (or not!) are side issues because unless the administrators find investors there will be no football club. It's as simple as that.

 

 

So no football club but a stadium with not many other potential uses. Anybody know another team in the area who desperately need a modern stadium? Would you go and watch them if they were (literally) the only game in town?

[derry]

But is it the Football League, not the FA that have the option to dish out points penalties.

 

It doesn't matter as the club is not in administration. Just think of say RBS going into administration, if they owned a hundred companies all trading and solvent, one a football club, the FA/League would have no reason to get involved as long as the club wasn't in administration.

[OldNick]

Surely they will be a day older.

Good point, all those years at Uni do have a use

[madamster]

Empathy from an unexpected source......... Rams fan in peace.

 

Your situation is indeed very similar to the one we were in a few years back. We were £24M in debt and the Coop bank pulled the plug on the holding company. This is a replica of your current situation. Three men, later to be branded the 3 amigos by Rams fans bought the club for the princely sum of 3 pounds. They secured a £15M mortgage on Pride Park (the ground was all bought and paid for long before that), ostensibly to reduce the debts and to satisfy the Coop Bank. The "mortgage" was from the Panamanian ABC Corporation (who also lent cash to QPR and nearly bankrupted them too). The 3 Amigos ruled the roost for some two and a half years, permanently telling us that the debt was declining and that the club was trading at break even. In that time we were forced to sell Huddlestone and Rasiak for paltry sums in order to pay interest on time and the debt rose from £24M to around £54M. Again we were on the brink of extinction. Seven lifelong Derby fans who are also successful businessmen ploughed some £30M into buying out the 3 A´s and reducing the debt slightly. That consortium took the club back to the PL but couldnt (or wouldnt) finance the buying of the 6 to 8 genuine PL class players we needed to make a fight of it. Consequently we had the disaster that was known as the 2007/2008 season. Just over 18 months ago we got a new Chairman of Football, Adam Pearson, who had been responsible for getting Hull into shape. He came in and negotiated with the GSE group to take the club over. It is a consortium of many American and Canadian businessmen, most with a successful background in American Sports as well as in other business ventures, one of them was one of the founders of Yahoo. They took over and we are doing OK. We now have Nigel Clough at the helm who has got us playing proper football again and what looked like a disaster season looks like being saved and we can build from there. The debt will, in June, be down to £15M, the mortgage on the ground, and that debt is manageable.

 

In my lifetime (and I'm mid 50's) I've seen the Rams on the brink in the early 80's, early 90's and again for the past 5 seasons...... it's not nice having to face the prospect of your club going to the wall. Boards come and go but we Rams, and you Saints, were always there before them and will be there when they have long gone. I know some of what you are feeling, I empathise with you. I hope the club survives to fight another day and would love to see you stay up by by getting all 3 points at the Tree Huggers on the last day of the season to send them down in your stead.

 

As one of you said earlier, we are a precedent but...... after the 3 amigo deal there was Leeds and Boston who went into Admin once they knew they were already down. That caused the Football League to plug that particular loophole and to add the caveat that they held the right to scrutinise anything not covered by the rules and still take action against a club if the League thought it was warranted. What happened at Derby hasn't been "outlawed" by the League but they do now have the legal right to act differently should they so choose.

 

I hope they don't break the precedent. Good luck.

 

PS We look like we are properly stable for the first time in donkey's ages. It will probably take a few years brfore we can hope to be back among the big boys and doing well. We know we have to be patient, so do you.

[derry]

So no football club but a stadium with not many other potential uses. Anybody know another team in the area who desperately need a modern stadium? Would you go and watch them if they were (literally) the only game in town?

 

Buy Bournemouth and move to SMS. The land is covented by the previous owners, which would have to be bought out to allow the site to be sold for anything else.

[Pancake]

It doesn't matter as the club is not in administration. Just think of say RBS going into administration, if they owned a hundred companies all trading and solvent, one a football club, the FA/League would have no reason to get involved as long as the club wasn't in administration.

 

Yes, I know that, Ive been making that EXACT point on here.

[SP Saint]

So who is going to buy Saints. Here's my starting line-up:

 

1. Anthony Saltz and Gavyn Davies

2. Jonathon Fulthorpe and John Cousins

3. Leon Crouch

4. Andrew Strode-Gibbons

5. David Frost

6. Dan Williams

7. John Misselbrook

[Rational Rich]

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Football League rules, particularly the rule on insolvency and points deduction?

 

Had thought the League's website or a Google search would have done the trick, but so far no luck. As a pedantic lawyer, I'm interested to see the exact wording of the rule to see (in my own humble, non-sports law opinion) where I think we stand.

[dubai_phil]

Pop went the weasel

For want of the message the re-inforcements were lost

[St Matty]

Empathy from an unexpected source......... Rams fan in peace.

 

Your situation is indeed very similar to the one we were in a few years back. We were £24M in debt and the Coop bank pulled the plug on the holding company. This is a replica of your current situation. Three men, later to be branded the 3 amigos by Rams fans bought the club for the princely sum of 3 pounds. They secured a £15M mortgage on Pride Park (the ground was all bought and paid for long before that), ostensibly to reduce the debts and to satisfy the Coop Bank. The "mortgage" was from the Panamanian ABC Corporation (who also lent cash to QPR and nearly bankrupted them too). The 3 Amigos ruled the roost for some two and a half years, permanently telling us that the debt was declining and that the club was trading at break even. In that time we were forced to sell Huddlestone and Rasiak for paltry sums in order to pay interest on time and the debt rose from £24M to around £54M. Again we were on the brink of extinction. Seven lifelong Derby fans who are also successful businessmen ploughed some £30M into buying out the 3 A´s and reducing the debt slightly. That consortium took the club back to the PL but couldnt (or wouldnt) finance the buying of the 6 to 8 genuine PL class players we needed to make a fight of it. Consequently we had the disaster that was known as the 2007/2008 season. Just over 18 months ago we got a new Chairman of Football, Adam Pearson, who had been responsible for getting Hull into shape. He came in and negotiated with the GSE group to take the club over. It is a consortium of many American and Canadian businessmen, most with a successful background in American Sports as well as in other business ventures, one of them was one of the founders of Yahoo. They took over and we are doing OK. We now have Nigel Clough at the helm who has got us playing proper football again and what looked like a disaster season looks like being saved and we can build from there. The debt will, in June, be down to £15M, the mortgage on the ground, and that debt is manageable.

 

In my lifetime (and I'm mid 50's) I've seen the Rams on the brink in the early 80's, early 90's and again for the past 5 seasons...... it's not nice having to face the prospect of your club going to the wall. Boards come and go but we Rams, and you Saints, were always there before them and will be there when they have long gone. I know some of what you are feeling, I empathise with you. I hope the club survives to fight another day and would love to see you stay up by by getting all 3 points at the Tree Huggers on the last day of the season to send them down in your stead.

 

As one of you said earlier, we are a precedent but...... after the 3 amigo deal there was Leeds and Boston who went into Admin once they knew they were already down. That caused the Football League to plug that particular loophole and to add the caveat that they held the right to scrutinise anything not covered by the rules and still take action against a club if the League thought it was warranted. What happened at Derby hasn't been "outlawed" by the League but they do now have the legal right to act differently should they so choose.

 

I hope they don't break the precedent. Good luck.

 

PS We look like we are properly stable for the first time in donkey's ages. It will probably take a few years before we can hope to be back among the big boys and doing well. We know we have to be patient, so do you.

 

many thanks - a quality post.

 

St matty

[Doctoroncall]

But is it the Football League, not the FA that have the option to dish out points penalties.

 

It is indeed the FL rules and regulations we abide by.

 

The plc is like an isa, a wrapper for all the investments to be held in one account. Should one fund got tits up then the other funds are secure.

 

The FL in their wisdom didn't want a football club to go into administration based on other businesses connected to it folding, hence holding company status.

 

The only way to guarantee no points deduction is if an investor takes on all the debt, may even get away with slightly less (90%) but that then introduces a risk.

[dubai_phil]

Empathy from an unexpected source......... Rams fan in peace.

 

Your situation is indeed very similar to the one we were in a few years back. We were £24M in debt and the Coop bank pulled the plug on the holding company. This is a replica of your current situation. Three men, later to be branded the 3 amigos by Rams fans bought the club for the princely sum of 3 pounds. They secured a £15M mortgage on Pride Park (the ground was all bought and paid for long before that), ostensibly to reduce the debts and to satisfy the Coop Bank. The "mortgage" was from the Panamanian ABC Corporation (who also lent cash to QPR and nearly bankrupted them too). The 3 Amigos ruled the roost for some two and a half years, permanently telling us that the debt was declining and that the club was trading at break even. In that time we were forced to sell Huddlestone and Rasiak for paltry sums in order to pay interest on time and the debt rose from £24M to around £54M. Again we were on the brink of extinction. Seven lifelong Derby fans who are also successful businessmen ploughed some £30M into buying out the 3 A´s and reducing the debt slightly. That consortium took the club back to the PL but couldnt (or wouldnt) finance the buying of the 6 to 8 genuine PL class players we needed to make a fight of it. Consequently we had the disaster that was known as the 2007/2008 season. Just over 18 months ago we got a new Chairman of Football, Adam Pearson, who had been responsible for getting Hull into shape. He came in and negotiated with the GSE group to take the club over. It is a consortium of many American and Canadian businessmen, most with a successful background in American Sports as well as in other business ventures, one of them was one of the founders of Yahoo. They took over and we are doing OK. We now have Nigel Clough at the helm who has got us playing proper football again and what looked like a disaster season looks like being saved and we can build from there. The debt will, in June, be down to £15M, the mortgage on the ground, and that debt is manageable.

 

In my lifetime (and I'm mid 50's) I've seen the Rams on the brink in the early 80's, early 90's and again for the past 5 seasons...... it's not nice having to face the prospect of your club going to the wall. Boards come and go but we Rams, and you Saints, were always there before them and will be there when they have long gone. I know some of what you are feeling, I empathise with you. I hope the club survives to fight another day and would love to see you stay up by by getting all 3 points at the Tree Huggers on the last day of the season to send them down in your stead.

 

As one of you said earlier, we are a precedent but...... after the 3 amigo deal there was Leeds and Boston who went into Admin once they knew they were already down. That caused the Football League to plug that particular loophole and to add the caveat that they held the right to scrutinise anything not covered by the rules and still take action against a club if the League thought it was warranted. What happened at Derby hasn't been "outlawed" by the League but they do now have the legal right to act differently should they so choose.

 

I hope they don't break the precedent. Good luck.

 

PS We look like we are properly stable for the first time in donkey's ages. It will probably take a few years brfore we can hope to be back among the big boys and doing well. We know we have to be patient, so do you.

 

Thankyou

[PaulSaint]

So who is going to buy Saints. Here's my starting line-up:

 

1. Anthony Saltz and Gavyn Davies

2. Jonathon Fulthorpe and John Cousins

3. Leon Crouch

4. Andrew Strode-Gibbons

5. David Frost

6. Dan Williams

7. John Misselbrook

 

MMMmmmm? Isnt Mr Beckham a fan of our youth policy and was once rumoured to be interested in buying Orient? He could employ a really good CEO and bring in loads of publicity marketing?

[trousers]

Thankyou

 

Echo those thanks. Cheers for the insight. Obviously too happy to hear that The Football League introduced a 'catch all' clause to treat each future case on it's own merits....here's hoping Lowe and Co were on top of that one when deciding not to pull the plug before the points deduction deadline....

[fish fingers]

So who is going to buy Saints. Here's my starting line-up:

 

1. Anthony Saltz and Gavyn Davies

2. Jonathon Fulthorpe and John Cousins

3. Leon Crouch

4. Andrew Strode-Gibbons

5. David Frost

6. Dan Williams

7. John Misselbrook

 

Leon Crouch can do one with the other two as far as i'm concerned, the club needs a fresh start and that will only happen if Lowe, Wilde and Crouch are all gone and forgotten.

[trousers]

So who is going to buy Saints. Here's my starting line-up:

 

1. Anthony Saltz and Gavyn Davies

2. Jonathon Fulthorpe and John Cousins

3. Leon Crouch

4. Andrew Strode-Gibbons

5. David Frost

6. Dan Williams

7. John Misselbrook

8. Glenn Hoddle's Academy

 

...

[itchen]

So who is going to buy Saints. Here's my starting line-up:

 

1. Anthony Saltz and Gavyn Davies

2. Jonathon Fulthorpe and John Cousins

3. Leon Crouch

4. Andrew Strode-Gibbons

5. David Frost

6. Dan Williams

7. John Misselbrook

 

You forgot Lifelong Saint, Barry the Briefcase, St David, Paul Allen, Help Me Rhonda, Rupert Lowe, Craig David and the drummer out of Coldplay. And Paul Allen.

[Weston Saint]

Pop went the weasel

For want of the message the re-inforcements were lost

Stop it!!

[Arizona]

So who is going to buy Saints. Here's my starting line-up:

 

1. Anthony Saltz and Gavyn Davies

2. Jonathon Fulthorpe and John Cousins

3. Leon Crouch

4. Andrew Strode-Gibbons

5. David Frost

6. Dan Williams

7. John Misselbrook

 

HMR, the unconvincing transvestite who then tried to buy Blackburn? No thanks.

[Scummer]

Stop it!!

 

Is this a new ITK thing?

[Weston Saint]

Is this a new ITK thing?

Doubt it

[ohwhenthesaints]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4255650.Championship_rivals_hit_out_at_points_deduction_loophole/

 

Pretty lengthy and interesting read about other clubs' opinions on the points issue. It seems we would not be too popular if we were not deducted points. Oh well.

[COMEONYOUREDS]

press conference 1pm, live on radio solent