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Pancake

By Pancake
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1981saintette

1981saintette

Posted
Posted

It is all down to the credit crunch and banks not lending a bean to no one who has debt! Alot of companies are probably struggling with exactly the same problems. Our debt is smallfry compared to some clubs I am sure!

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
A United Arab Emirates news website is carrying the story. Bit odd for them to care about a CCC club. Maybe there is a local angle (says he desperately hoping....)

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/sports/2009/April/sports_April31.xml&section=sports

 

There are occassional updates on the CCC in KT & also the National (from Abu Dhabi)- there ARE fans here and we do get all the CCC & L1 games live on telly.

 

May seem strange, but this is a big story expect you'll find it in Asian press as well

 

Sorry

aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
That doesn't explain why they did not come to this decision last week before the 10 points deduction became enforcable. Cretins.

 

You're right, it doesn't make any sense going into admin now when it could have just as easily have happened last week without a risk of starting next season on -10.

 

Can anyone give a logical explanation?

Forester

Forester

Posted
Posted

***saints to enter administration***

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is absolutely reliable - PLC board will announce 1st week of Feb that company is entering administration. This is info I have obtained this afternoon from a wholly credible source.

 

An absolutely massive blow, as I read this as relegation now a certainty. While it may in the long term prove a blessing in disguise, this will prove the absolutely bottom point we have reached for many decades.

 

I am gutted tonight

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I took a lot of stick on this forum for sharing what I learned in good faith - and it has been proved to be correct (albeit delayed). I don't expect apologies, but perhaps some posters could think before tearing fellow Saints fans to pieces on here

Kaiser Soze

Kaiser Soze

Posted
Posted

Can't believe we won't get the points deduction. By trying to cheat the system we could end up even worse off, i.e Leeds two years ago with a 15 point penalty.

 

Odds have slashed by the way, best price available as short as 1/2.

 

In short we are F U C K E D.

 

R.I.P SFC

 

Lowe and Wilde die now please.

thorpie the sinner

thorpie the sinner

Posted
Posted
The stage is set, the audience are in place, the spotlights are on, the orchestra is well into the introduction........

 

But the Fat Lady isn't singing

 

 

yet

 

what are you doing up at 430 in the morning lol!!! or is 130am, oh ****, i just dunno anymore!! i am going back to Garcia Marquez, he makes more s ense!!

sotonjoe

sotonjoe

Posted
Posted

Saints were the main news report on Meridian news now. They say SLH will go into admin tomorrow morning and that the FA have 'confirmed' that we have found a loophole and will avoid a points reduction. They say we still need to find a buyer for the club though to avoid bankruptcy.

 

Let's be having a buyer then!

Golac's Cunning Stunts

Golac's Cunning Stunts

Posted
Posted

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article6018369.ece

 

Not sure if this has been posted. Looks like the rule about holding company going into admin was put in place to protect the associated football team from suffering if the holding company has got into trouble elsewhere. As SLH only owns the FC and the ground it seem we are somewhat taking the **** in trying to avoid the deduction. From the reaction I've been reading in this article and elsewhere, there will be a lot of fallout from other clubs if we do manage to duck the points deduction.

John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted

At the end of the day nothing will happen regarding new investors if Messrs Lowe (in particular) Wilde and Askham are still on the scene.

When the Wilde consortium were making their bid to take over Lee Hoo's in his meetings with fans said that there was no intention of making an outright bid for the club as the removal of one man would not leave anything much to put in the club to move on.

 

As Rupert said in an interview around the time the wheels started to come off the club "if someone paid me £25m I would walk away".

 

These are sad times for Saints fans, just like wishing you could go back to school knowing what you do now, how nice it would be to return to Football in August 1978: the dawn of happier times when this kind of carry on was a very very distant probably non existent thought.

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
what are you doing up at 430 in the morning lol!!! or is 130am, oh ****, i just dunno anymore!! i am going back to Garcia Marquez, he makes more s ense!!

 

Actually I thought that was very clear..........

 

 

 

I have to say though the Beeb missed out - I reckon this would have made a damned good reality TV show over the past season. It sure as sh1t hasn't borne much resemblance to a football club

vico

vico

Posted
Posted
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article6018369.ece

 

Not sure if this has been posted. Looks like the rule about holding company going into admin was put in place to protect the associated football team from suffering if the holding company has got into trouble elsewhere. As SLH only owns the FC and the ground it seem we are somewhat taking the **** in trying to avoid the deduction. From the reaction I've been reading in this article and elsewhere, there will be a lot of fallout from other clubs if we do manage to duck the points deduction.

 

I Wonder if many of the actions taken over the last couple of years have been in anticipation of this event. If the league challange what is happening there is some evidence that the rules are being applied in the situation that they were designed to.

 

The increasing separation between SFC and SLH has seemed odd - as if it was in preparation for something exactly like this. There are different memeber of the two boards of directors - why is this needed unless they are taking different decisions over different parts of the group. Its the actions of the PLC board that have caused our mess - not the football board. (At least if I was RL this would be my number one arguement!)

 

SLH is primerily a holding company in a football club. But forget not that it has also had interests in property (I think), Financial services company, and a radio station.

 

I'd bet that Rupert and co will argue that the rules in place are for exactly our situation and so feel fairly miffed if this was taken away from them by the football league.

SaintJackoInHurworth

SaintJackoInHurworth

Posted
Posted

Whatever the rules were actually meant to legislate for doesn't matter - what matters is what the rules actually SAY and how they have been previously applkied (e.g at Derby). Therefore, following the Sheff Utd/West Ham/Carlos Tevez debacle I would think the FA would be reticent to be too quick to punish Saints, unless it is very clear that the rules have been broken.

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted

Let me get this straight... The Football Club and the PLC are separate legal entities so the fact that the PLC who happen to own the club, amongst other things, goes into administration may not necessarily have any bearing on the operation of the Football Club. Presumably it will all boil down to whether the club will have received any write-off of debts, preferential loans, all that sort of thing, that would give it an 'unfair' advantage over other clubs in the same league. So what I am saying is, the decision to apply any sanction to us will depend on the specific details of the relationship between the PLC and the Club. have I got it right?

hamster

hamster

Posted
Posted

I just can't help thinking that there is another nasty twist to this tale. Something just isn't quite right in my opinion, and I am worried that Rupert Lowe has one more card up his sleeve which will push many fans over the edge.

SaintBobby

SaintBobby

Posted
Posted
***saints to enter administration***

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is absolutely reliable - PLC board will announce 1st week of Feb that company is entering administration. This is info I have obtained this afternoon from a wholly credible source.

 

An absolutely massive blow, as I read this as relegation now a certainty. While it may in the long term prove a blessing in disguise, this will prove the absolutely bottom point we have reached for many decades.

 

I am gutted tonight

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I took a lot of stick on this forum for sharing what I learned in good faith - and it has been proved to be correct (albeit delayed). I don't expect apologies, but perhaps some posters could think before tearing fellow Saints fans to pieces on here

 

It was emphatically not proven correct.

 

You didn't put your money where your mouth was and didn't take me up on the bet I offered.

 

Simply saying "X is going to happen" when X looks a measurable possibility - and being out by 2 months is not impressive.

 

Your information was nonsense and your source unreliable.

 

The fact that you were not willing to bet a single penny on it indicates that you didn't believe it either.

 

If I predict that Mr. Y - a very eldery person - will die on 1st May 2008, I am not accurate if he finally drops dead in July.

 

Pathetic self-justification from a fantasist IMHO.

offix

offix

Posted
Posted

According to The Times the whole PLC board, with the exception of Jones, has resigned. No mention of the football club's board. They also hint that Norwich Union may be willing to forgive the debt owed to them?

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Only 2 months out. Not bad. It's been predicted, with some very adamant posts, for about a year though.

 

To be fair he is 31 days out and anybody that doesn't believe this has been a long term / well thought plan (Given the stunt we are trying to pull) is retarded.

 

It may well have been plan "B" but this was discussed and agreed a long time ago.

LaptopSaint

LaptopSaint

Posted
Posted

Here's the Guardian's take on it. If we get away with it -- and I know this won't be a popular view -- it looks like a pretty smart move from Lowe.

Still want him gone for good though.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/02/southampton-saints-administration-championship-relegation

 

The Football League was last night accused of "double standards" by clubs who have been docked points, after it emerged that Southampton are unlikely to attract a penalty when their holding company is placed into administration today.

 

Southampton Leisure Holdings announced to the stock market yesterday that its shares were being suspended because the uncertainty around the company meant it was unable to meet the deadline for posting its half-year results.

 

The club has debts of close to £28m, comprising a £4.5m overdraft with Barc*lays and a loan with Norwich Union that financed the stadium. It is understood that negotiations with the bank have foundered, leaving administration as the only option, with the accountants Begbies Traynor believed to be standing by.

 

But it appears that Southampton would be able to avoid a penalty being applied at the start of next season, as long as the football club subsidiary avoided administration. In order for that to happen, it is believed that new investors would have to be found by the summer.

 

The issue will be discussed at a Football League board meeting next Tuesday, but if Southampton do avoid incurring a penalty it would open a can of worms with other clubs who have had deductions applied.

 

Luton Town's managing director, Gary Sweet, who had to contend with a 30-point deduction after rescuing the club from administration last August, said: "This makes a mockery of the Football League's attempt to uphold the integrity of the competition. If this sails through I see no reason why any footballclub should not set up a holding company that carries the entire debt of the club which is periodically put into administration in order to cleanse debt whilst attracting no sanctions."

 

He added: "This smacks yet again as double standards between clubs at diff*erent levels of the game." Sweet said an additional 10-point penalty incurred by Luton from the Football Association was imposed because the previous owners paid agents from the club's holding company, which he said "clearly recognises the relationship between the holding company and the club itself".

northam soul

northam soul

Posted
Posted

I think a lot will depend on our eventual owner/s,if they pay off the overdraft and mortgage or continue to service it then we have not gained any financial advantage but if aviva write off some of the debt then we could be in a spot of bother.

There could be major legal battles with this if we avoid a penalty so the coming months are not going to be pretty.

NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted
***saints to enter administration***

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is absolutely reliable - PLC board will announce 1st week of Feb that company is entering administration. This is info I have obtained this afternoon from a wholly credible source.

 

An absolutely massive blow, as I read this as relegation now a certainty. While it may in the long term prove a blessing in disguise, this will prove the absolutely bottom point we have reached for many decades.

 

I am gutted tonight

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I took a lot of stick on this forum for sharing what I learned in good faith - and it has been proved to be correct (albeit delayed). I don't expect apologies, but perhaps some posters could think before tearing fellow Saints fans to pieces on here

 

pathetic - you were wrong!

um pahars

um pahars

Posted
Posted
According to The Times the whole PLC board, with the exception of Jones, has resigned. No mention of the football club's board. They also hint that Norwich Union may be willing to forgive the debt owed to them?

 

I posted that early last night when I was told that only Jones would be around today.

 

I think there is also a precedent regarding Aviva (norwich Union) as I'm sure they have renegotiated their det wth other clubs before (notably Ipswich, which somewhat upset their rivals Norwich, considering Norwich Union were involved!!!!!!).

 

So much will depend on whether anyone who comes in can renegotiate our debt position. Otherwise I fear for our future.

Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

So many threads, so apologies if this has been raised.

 

Is it possible for someone to buy the club for a £1, then do a shares issue, therefore raising enough money to take the club forward. If so, could this be Mr Lowes' plan 'B'.........

Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
I assume the PLC administrators have the power to place a Subsidiary Company in Administration?

 

Unless the subsiduary company has sufficient funds to continue trading at the moment.

 

I am reading between the lines here (or guessing) but the reason the accounts couln't be signed off for the Plc was that the auditors couln't agree that we were a going concern for the next 6 or 12 months - hence the Plc goes into voluntary adminstration, which the board have to do.

 

However the football club may have separate funds to allow them to continue trading until the end of season. As separate entities, there would presumably be separate bank accounts for the Plc & football club - if only the Plc account has the overdraft facility then potentially this buys time for the football club to find a buyer avoiding the points penalty (for now).

Winchester Exile

Winchester Exile

Posted
Posted

Um's right I'm afraid. It's all about cash. We are technically insolvent and unable to trade for much longer, notwithstanding administration, so unless investors can be found our future is very bleak. The club/administrator has to find some people with some money or we're f****d which in the current environment isn't going to be easy. There is nothing good about our situation!

Barry Horne

Barry Horne

Posted
Posted
Um's right I'm afraid. It's all about cash. We are technically insolvent and unable to trade for much longer, notwithstanding administration, so unless investors can be found our future is very bleak. The club/administrator has to find some people with some money or we're f****d which in the current environment isn't going to be easy. There is nothing good about our situation!

 

The Echo are now saying we have 24 days to save the club from being wiped out altogether. Scary thought....bucket collection on Saturday anyone? Seems ironic that not so long ago many Saints fans were generously contributing to Bournemouth's fundraising efforts to stay in business, what chance a bit of reciprocation now?....

Topcat

Topcat

Posted
Posted

It is not in the FA's best interest to allow us to get away without a points deduction.

 

Any decision they take will be made in the light of the principle that they want to discourage club's from defaulting on their debts. Separating a Club's normal trading items into a holding company will be the principle that they will seek to break.

 

The problem with the FA saying that they will look at it at the end of the season is that it creates a further degree of uncertainty for any prospective buyers.

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
It is not in the FA's best interest to allow us to get away without a points deduction.

 

Any decision they take will be made in the light of the principle that they want to discourage club's from defaulting on their debts. Separating a Club's normal trading items into a holding company will be the principle that they will seek to break.

 

The problem with the FA saying that they will look at it at the end of the season is that it creates a further degree of uncertainty for any prospective buyers.

but surely there is a precident with Derby.We could argue that is when they should have taken action and so I expect legally they will be shutting the garte after the horse has bolted.Although unless someone comes forward and buys us it will make no difference.
dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
It is not in the FA's best interest to allow us to get away without a points deduction.

 

Any decision they take will be made in the light of the principle that they want to discourage club's from defaulting on their debts. Separating a Club's normal trading items into a holding company will be the principle that they will seek to break.

 

The problem with the FA saying that they will look at it at the end of the season is that it creates a further degree of uncertainty for any prospective buyers.

 

Some of it may also come down to where the assets lie.

 

Our problem is about cash flow - ie insolvency, but "in theory" we still have assets - stadium, Staplewood and the "miracle" of Jacksons Farm.

 

Then we have the "debt" and where that is recognised, so in theory SLH may actually have enough assets (on paper) to cover the debts, but of course no money.

If it is all properly structured then perhaps the Football Club Ltd becomes an entity without the stadium et al.

No idea if this is the case but the FL may not look at it quite so harshly. And if there IS a loophole, then we would get away with it as they can only learn a lesson and change the rules later. Will probably mean we get zero favours from them ever again though and the nippers would be back to training on the common when we sell Staplewood for 75 pence to the only buyers who could use it as is - ie them lot up the road

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
***saints to enter administration***

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is absolutely reliable - PLC board will announce 1st week of Feb that company is entering administration. This is info I have obtained this afternoon from a wholly credible source.

 

An absolutely massive blow, as I read this as relegation now a certainty. While it may in the long term prove a blessing in disguise, this will prove the absolutely bottom point we have reached for many decades.

 

I am gutted tonight

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I took a lot of stick on this forum for sharing what I learned in good faith - and it has been proved to be correct (albeit delayed). I don't expect apologies, but perhaps some posters could think before tearing fellow Saints fans to pieces on here

 

 

**** Announcement ****

 

THE WORLD WILL END IN MAY 2009

 

I will be proven right. Watch this space....from the safety of your loft if I were you.

Pancake

Pancake

Posted
  • Author
Posted
**** Announcement ****

 

THE WORLD WILL END IN MAY 2009

 

I will be proven right. Watch this space....from the safety of your loft if I were you.

 

Thank **** i just boarded it then.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

 

"The Daily Echo understands that Saints had breached the overdraft limit agreed with Barclays of £4m – but by not much more than £110,000. "

 

I posted yesterday that this seems down to Barclays playing hardball over relatively minor discretion on the overdraft side of things. People posted time and time again on here that no way would Barclays bring us down because they wouldn't want the bad publicity.

 

Hey ho.

Pancake

Pancake

Posted
  • Author
Posted
"The Daily Echo understands that Saints had breached the overdraft limit agreed with Barclays of £4m – but by not much more than £110,000. "

 

I posted yesterday that this seems down to Barclays playing hardball over relatively minor discretion on the overdraft side of things. People posted time and time again on here that no way would Barclays bring us down because they wouldn't want the bad publicity.

 

Hey ho.

 

What odds that the £110k was the money owed to Notts County and we coughed up to them to stop them complaining to the League...

 

I love the blame game.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Well the bank might have made a mistake by not increasing the overdraft a bit more. The 4m ovedraft will be lost won't it?

 

Banks are good at shooting themselves in the foot though. They can hardly claim the moral high ground on money management matters these days.

 

If only Barclays had gone the same way as Northern Rock, RBS and Lloyds-HBOS we'd have a say in how they were run....in theory...

sotonjoe

sotonjoe

Posted
Posted

I guess the £110,000 will be seen as the straw that broke the camel's back. We've been flirting with admin for so wrong they had to pull the plug on us at some point.

Pancake

Pancake

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Well the bank might have made a mistake by not increasing the overdraft a bit more. The 4m ovedraft will be lost won't it?

 

I would have thought that it would be paid back by any sales of players etc.

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