What is going on at SFC - Discussion

[brightspark]

It all looks very bleak. Hasn't really sunk in yet, as I feel that it the news of administration and points deduction (this or NEXT season) will be imminent.

 

The worst possible scenario is relegation and -10+ next year. This is what is going to happen IMO. Screwed. Its as if i'm finally about to lose grip of something i've been gripping to for years. Like a clifftop. Hanging on by the fingernails. Knowing your due to drop.

[Greenridge]

If I heard the Radio Solent report correctly they stated that SFC / SLH were in negotiations today with interested investment partners. Quite how accurate this is I do not know.

 

I did hear yesterday from someone who would definitely have an inside track that the 'technicality' for want of a better word of differentiating SFC to SLH was what they are pinning their strategy on. I'm sure they've must have been looking into this for some time and taken advice on it. Obviously if the League don't agree to this differentiation then it's not good. The next 24hrs should reveal a lot.

[Window Cleaner]

In comparison to say Birmingham (if they where up for sale) or Wolves etc, we would surely be a cheaper option.

 

Although shares seem to be suspended, does that mean we cannot be sold?

 

I am sure Derby were in an almost identical position but got sold at the last moment.

 

Well seemingly shares cannot be traded until we publish our half-year accounts.

No doubt sales could be agreed and transacted when we announce the accounts.

[saints_is_the_south]

When i spoke to my auntie this morning who told me the news that SSN & Radio Solent were reporting she told me that at the reserves game on Monday instead of just Gorre & Killer being there, Lowe was there with Wotte shaking hands with a lot of men in business suits. Make of it what you will.

 

Showing potential new owners around Staplewood? We can only hope.

[VectisSaint]

I don't think BBC talk about anything until it has been announced properly! Think they have got stung in past

It was on BBC Breakfast News on TV this morning just after 8am, it was only the web site that had nothing until a little while ago. Their source is evidently the Skegness Standard

[jawillwill]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11578

[sandwichsaint]

Posted (a version of) this elsewhere - would welcome thoughts:

 

SLH defaults on the mortgage on SMS (this seems to be the overwhelming part of our debt) and hands over the keys to Norwich Union (unclear on timing - probably when we have our last three games out of the way). The debt is written off, SLH wound up and Norwich Union have a pretty useless asset on their hands - the only possible buyer being a sports club in Southampton with many thousands of supporters.

 

A "reborn" Southampton Football Club then buys back the stadium for a song. The bulk of the existing SLH debt ends up being shouldered by NU's shareholders. Saints are reborn (probably in League One) with v limited debt round our necks.

 

Surely too obvious....

 

If there was any chance of this we would have taken it 12 months ago?

 

'Dear Aviva, can we just play our last 3 games before we give the keys back?'; that's not going to happen, surely we would be trading fraudulently knowing that 6 weeks down the line we were going to knock Aviva for £20m?

 

Why would Aviva sell back to New-Saints for a much lower price? The stadium site must have some limited potential for redevelopment even in the current straightened times, maybe for student or social housing if nothing else?

 

Be very careful what you wish for; I've not seen much other comment on this but surely there is a very real risk (in splitting the 2 companies and then defaulting on the mortgage) that Saints will lose the ground and end up homeless and ground-sharing?

 

To avoid this type of scene unwinding (defaulting on the mortgage) surely we have to a reasonable level of investment from the new owners? I can not see any way in which we can simply walk away from the mortgage and carry on playing at SMS?

[SW11_Saint]

Davies and Frost have been mentioned on virtually every thread since 1888,nothing has ever happened to date and probably never will. Idem Salz,Fulthorpe,Merrington, Paul Allen, Tom Gurney etc etc

I agree. The only realistic chance we had was the SISU deal. Had we have tied that up, we'd now be on an even keel financially, and likely have Chris Coleman as manager.

 

Yet another example of a pathetic, self-interested, failing of our (successive) boards. Frankly none of them have been up to the job.

 

The fans, and the City deserve better than the clowns we have holding the reigns.

 

I have not doubt there is NO white knight on the horizon, and it also wouldn't surprise me if the League didn't act in some way re. a points deduction this season.

Edited 1 April, 2009 by SW11_Saint

[Um Bongo]

Announcment to be made tomorrow afternoon according to SSN.

 

Lowe not been at the meeting, in london.

[SW11_Saint]

Lowe not been at the meeting, in london.

Pehaps he'll get a slap from a G20 protestor...

[John B]

Announcment to be made tomorrow afternoon according to SSN.

 

Lowe not been at the meeting, in london.

 

What meeting?

[View From The Top]

Don't worry, Lowe told us that we won't "do a Leeds". :---)

[SaintBobby]

Lengthy report from Gary Cotterill on SSN. Precis follows:

 

The meeting at SMS has broken up - some members joined the meeting remotely (Lowe is in London).

 

SLH has gone into administration (although he also wrongly used the word "liquidation" a few times).

 

Press conference with the administrators expected tomorrow afternoon.

 

Rupert Lowe appears to have "cleverly dodged" the 10 point penalty (also went on to describe Lowe as a very clever and astute businessman who has seen this loophole and gone for it!!!).

 

League yet to 100% confirm that the 10 point penalty will not apply.

 

Likely to provoke fury from other clubs - and from Ken Bates.

 

Noted the Derby County precedent.

[Saint_clark]

Lengthy report from Gary Cotterill on SSN. Precis follows:

 

The meeting at SMS has broken up - some members joined the meeting remotely (Lowe is in London).

 

SLH has gone into administration (although he also wrongly used the word "liquidation" a few times).

 

Press conference with the administrators expected tomorrow afternoon.

 

Rupert Lowe appears to have "cleverly dodged" the 10 point penalty (also went on to describe Lowe as a very clever and astute businessman who has seen this loophole and gone for it!!!).

 

League yet to 100% confirm that the 10 point penalty will not apply.

 

Likely to provoke fury from other clubs - and from Ken Bates.

 

Noted the Derby County precedent.

 

I really could not care less what other clubs think about us after this. Their own fault for not spotting this loophole.

If this comes off, then Rupert Lowe will have redeemed his past mistakes for me, and whilst I would still want him to leave I will no longer view him with the hatred I do now.

[lumuah]

Lowe not been at the meeting, in london.

 

Too busy duck shooting no doubt to be bothered with this trivia....

[DT]

Lengthy report from Gary Cotterill on SSN. Precis follows:

 

The meeting at SMS has broken up - some members joined the meeting remotely (Lowe is in London).

 

SLH has gone into administration (although he also wrongly used the word "liquidation" a few times).

 

Press conference with the administrators expected tomorrow afternoon.

 

Rupert Lowe appears to have "cleverly dodged" the 10 point penalty (also went on to describe Lowe as a very clever and astute businessman who has seen this loophole and gone for it!!!).

 

League yet to 100% confirm that the 10 point penalty will not apply.

 

Likely to provoke fury from other clubs - and from Ken Bates.

 

Noted the Derby County precedent.

Beeb said that we might still have the points deduction if our scenario means a 'significant' proportion of our debt is wiped. Guess definition of that is what will be argued between the Football League (who stand to get lawsuits from other clubs) and our own lawyers. Ooh. I wonder who will win...

[John B]

Beeb said that we might still have the points deduction if our scenario means a 'significant' proportion of our debt is wiped. Guess definition of that is what will be argued between the Football League (who stand to get lawsuits from other clubs) and our own lawyers. Ooh. I wonder who will win...

 

The Echo contacted the Football League have the BBC?

[SaintBobby]

I really could not care less what other clubs think about us after this. Their own fault for not spotting this loophole.

If this comes off, then Rupert Lowe will have redeemed his past mistakes for me, and whilst I would still want him to leave I will no longer view him with the hatred I do now.

 

Agree with your first point, although I guess this means teh pressure on the Football League will not be v supportive of us....

[John B]

Agree with your first point, although I guess this means teh pressure on the Football League will not be v supportive of us....

 

The league are worried that lots of clubs are likely to go into Administration so they may look on us kindly

[Right sider]

Not sure what this means but just been sent this:

 

The Saints Trust are working in partnership with the City Council

 

For the past few weeks the Saints Trust have been working alongside the City Council in looking at ways they can help the Club, this follows on from the Press Statement of a few weeks ago when the Trust called for the Council and local MP's to get involved with the Club's plight.

 

Since then the Trust has entered into dialogue with all parties and has been looking into positive ways to help the Club's plight, sadly it had been apparent that the club was staring over the precipice and that anything that could be done might be too late.

However despite this mornnings announcement the Trust will launch a campaign alongside the council to encourage Saints Supporters to get behind the Club in the vital weeks to the end of the season and indeed beyond, the Club has been in existence for 124 years, every Saints supporter would surely want to see it make 125.

This is about Southampton Football Club and not about one individual, its about the supporters and the supporters only.

 

On Thursday Evening the Saints Trust and City Council would like as many Saints supporters, whether Trust members or not to come along to a Photo Call for the Press at the Civc Centre, all supporters of any age will be welcome and please wear the Club colours with pride, this is a chance for Supporters to show the world that they will not let the Club die.

 

The intention is to take a group photograph for the Daily Echo to publicise the campaign on the steps of the Civic Centre, there will be some significance to the location, in that the picture taken in the Club's darkest hour will be just underneath the balcony where Lawrie McMenemy and the team presented the FA Cup to thousands of fans in its greatest hour back in 1976.

 

Please come along and show your support for the Club and indeed anyone who would like to get involved with this campaign please contact the Saints Trust through its website or the City Council.

[SaintBobby]

Surely too obvious....

 

If there was any chance of this we would have taken it 12 months ago?

 

'Dear Aviva, can we just play our last 3 games before we give the keys back?'; that's not going to happen, surely we would be trading fraudulently knowing that 6 weeks down the line we were going to knock Aviva for £20m?

 

Why would Aviva sell back to New-Saints for a much lower price? The stadium site must have some limited potential for redevelopment even in the current straightened times, maybe for student or social housing if nothing else?

 

Be very careful what you wish for; I've not seen much other comment on this but surely there is a very real risk (in splitting the 2 companies and then defaulting on the mortgage) that Saints will lose the ground and end up homeless and ground-sharing?

 

To avoid this type of scene unwinding (defaulting on the mortgage) surely we have to a reasonable level of investment from the new owners? I can not see any way in which we can simply walk away from the mortgage and carry on playing at SMS?

 

Honestly couldn't comment on the legalities on fraud etc., but my central point of naggigng concern is that the stadium is actually worth far, far less than the mortgage on it (that's even more the case if the mortgage is at 8.5%)

 

I'm sure there's SOME value in possible student housing or redevelopment - but nothing like £23m IMHO.

 

Were we to default on the mortgage, strikes me that Aviva would have to flog SMS for a lot, lot, less than £23m.

[SaintBobby]

Not sure what this means but just been sent this:

 

The Saints Trust are working in partnership with the City Council

 

For the past few weeks the Saints Trust have been working alongside the City Council in looking at ways they can help the Club, this follows on from the Press Statement of a few weeks ago when the Trust called for the Council and local MP's to get involved with the Club's plight.

 

Since then the Trust has entered into dialogue with all parties and has been looking into positive ways to help the Club's plight, sadly it had been apparent that the club was staring over the precipice and that anything that could be done might be too late.

However despite this mornnings announcement the Trust will launch a campaign alongside the council to encourage Saints Supporters to get behind the Club in the vital weeks to the end of the season and indeed beyond, the Club has been in existence for 124 years, every Saints supporter would surely want to see it make 125.

This is about Southampton Football Club and not about one individual, its about the supporters and the supporters only.

 

On Thursday Evening the Saints Trust and City Council would like as many Saints supporters, whether Trust members or not to come along to a Photo Call for the Press at the Civc Centre, all supporters of any age will be welcome and please wear the Club colours with pride, this is a chance for Supporters to show the world that they will not let the Club die.

 

The intention is to take a group photograph for the Daily Echo to publicise the campaign on the steps of the Civic Centre, there will be some significance to the location, in that the picture taken in the Club's darkest hour will be just underneath the balcony where Lawrie McMenemy and the team presented the FA Cup to thousands of fans in its greatest hour back in 1976.

 

Please come along and show your support for the Club and indeed anyone who would like to get involved with this campaign please contact the Saints Trust through its website or the City Council.

 

I don't understand what the campaign is.....

 

What specifically is being advocated?

[Gravesend Saint]

BBC have finally got something up:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/7976473.stm

 

This bit conflicts with what the Echo reported and the precedent set by Derby:

 

"It is possible that moves to put the club's parent company, rather than the club itself, into administration will save it from triggering the automatic 10-point deduction imposed by the Football League.

 

However, BBC Sport understands that if a significant proportion of the club's debt is wiped out by such a move, it could still be at the discretion of the League whether a points penalty is imposed."

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

The debt to be wiped out is the £8m overdraft, as the mortgage is sustainable.

 

What I can see happening is a new umbrella company set up, with an overdraft, and the new company paying £2m to SLH for all it's assets (Southampton Football club, St Mary's stadium ltd). This would then not remove all the debt, but leave a debt of £2m, so as not to wipe out all the debt as eluded to earlier by the BBC (this may make us liable). I assume it was the interest over our overdraft limit that was not sustainable.

 

Just my thoughts.

[DT]

GS, I said that up there a bit. do keep up.

[SW11_Saint]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/leisure/article6012015.ece

 

I love these silly little graphs that are produced at times like this to "explain" the situation... (click the Multimedia link).

 

Thorugh one of the other links on that page I couldn't help notice that it is a year to the day that Lowe and Wilde called for the EGM. Well done you two - look what you achieved in less than a year, jettisoned two more managers, seen us firmly ensconced in the bottom 3 again, and now finally administration. Break out the bubbly Rupert, your mission is accomplished!

Edited 1 April, 2009 by SW11_Saint

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Honestly couldn't comment on the legalities on fraud etc., but my central point of naggigng concern is that the stadium is actually worth far, far less than the mortgage on it (that's even more the case if the mortgage is at 8.5%)

 

I'm sure there's SOME value in possible student housing or redevelopment - but nothing like £23m IMHO.

 

Were we to default on the mortgage, strikes me that Aviva would have to flog SMS for a lot, lot, less than £23m.

 

I thought the site was:

 

a) Contaminated Land

b) not able to be used for anything other than a Sports/leisure venue.

[SaintBobby]

I thought the site was:

 

a) Contaminated Land

b) not able to be used for anything other than a Sports/leisure venue.

 

 

Reinforces my basic case then...

[Rational Rich]

New Times article, insinuates that SLH is in administration, but nothing on LSE yet. Also mentions the lack of a 10 point penalty.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article6015565.ece

[Colinjb]

So, Rupert now thinks he is smarter then the stock exchange......

 

...it will all backfire on him soon enough I fear.

[alpine_saint]

So, Rupert now thinks he is smarter then the stock exchange......

 

...it will all backfire on him soon enough I fear.

 

Hasnt his over-estimation of his intelligence combined with an under-estimation of everyone elses, been the source of the problems all along ?

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Sky sports just anounced that the meetings over and apparentley SLH has gone into admin (liquidation), and a official announcement tomorrow! But not SFC!

[SW11_Saint]

So, Rupert now thinks he is smarter then the stock exchange......

 

...it will all backfire on him soon enough I fear.

Agreed. I'm sure those at the Football League are already working out who they can impose an even heavier points deduction next season, whichever league we're in, to set an example...

[John B]

Agreed. I'm sure those at the Football League are already working out who they can impose an even heavier points deduction next season, whichever league we're in, to set an example...

 

Not if we have agreed the plan with them in advance

[Gemmel]

If SSN are correct and SLH has gone into administration - and we are not getting a points deduction, does that mean that Southampton Football Club Ltd has already been sold???

[hypochondriac]

This is either insanely clever or insanely stupid. We shall see...

[John B]

If SSN are correct and SLH has gone into administration - and we are not getting a points deduction, does that mean that Southampton Football Club Ltd has already been sold???

 

I hope so but I have no idea who has bought it

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

does that mean that Southampton Football Club Ltd has already been sold???

 

Would be great news to hear! Preferably to "Nothing to do with Lowe and Wilde plus we've got pots of ready cash Holdings Ltd"

[Gemmel]

This is either insanely clever or insanely stupid. We shall see...

 

That's exactly as i see it right now

[Paul Chuckle]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/7976418.stm

 

Lowe speaks

[Pancake]

So, Rupert now thinks he is smarter then the stock exchange......

 

...it will all backfire on him soon enough I fear.

 

Come again? How exactly does Lowe think he is "smarter than the Stock Exchange"?

[Topcat]

Will the administrators act quickly and remove Lowe and Wilde from SLH and SFC? If they do act quickly then attendances will rise and give a boost to the Club's finances and its chances of avoiding relegation.

 

I have read that the Echo and the Saints Trust are calling for all supporters to come back. But Lowe and Wilde need to be removed to enable that to happen. Sad that the Trust do not understand that.

[Paul Chuckle]

The most worrying thing i have read today

 

And it means the Saints are now threatened by liquidation and could drop out of the Football League, if SLH fails to attract new investment by the end of the summer.

[Topcat]

Rupert Lowe's worst promise?

 

"We are not going to do a Leeds"!

[sunrise]

Don't worry, Lowe told us that we won't "do a Leeds". :---)

 

No, we're going to do a Bradford

[trousers]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/7976418.stm

 

Lowe speaks

 

Southampton FC is priority - Lowe

 

 

Southampton plc chairman Rupert Lowe has said the holding company's priority is to keep the football club alive.

 

The club face the prospect of going into administration and being docked points after trading in shares in their parent company was suspended.

 

Lowe told BBC Radio Solent: "It's now about keeping Southampton Football Club alive. This is the only way it could have been done."

 

Southampton Leisure Holdings plc says it needs extra money to have a future.

 

While talks with a number of parties are ongoing, the company said it was required to suspend its shares because the uncertainty had prevented it from posting half-year results before Tuesday's three-month deadline.

 

Last October, SLH's bank Barclays significantly reduced the company's overdraft facility.

And it means the Saints are now threatened by liquidation and could drop out of the Football League, if SLH fails to attract new investment by the end of the summer.

Southampton's financial plight is largely the consequence of the club's decision to build a new 30,000-seat stadium, St Mary's, eight years ago.

 

Lowe resigned as the club's chairman in February 2006 before returning to St Mary's just over a year ago in a takeover with majority shareholder Michael Wilde, who is the current chairman of the football club.

And he knows the objective for the football club is clear if the parent

company enters administration.

"If we can stay in the Championship this club has a good chance of finding new investment. We have young players who are committed and will flourish in the future," he said.

 

Saints have seven matches left to avoid relegation to the third tier of English football for the first time in nearly half a century.

 

Southampton fans have reacted angrily to the latest setback.

 

And the chairman of the Saints Trust, Nick Illingsworth, told BBC Radio Solent: "I think everyone will be shocked. People I speak to just don't believe a club the size of Southampton would do this.

 

"Attendances have dropped below the 15,000 mark at one stage and many supporters have said 'I'm not putting my money into Rupert Lowe etc' on the basis that they don't realise how desperate this is.

 

"Now we know how desperate it is. No Saints supporter can turn round and say 'I didn't realise the club was in trouble'."

 

Former Southampton manager Dave Merrington, who steered Saints to Premier League survival 14 years ago, said his biggest concern was for the fans.

 

The BBC Radio Solent summariser said: "There's been falling out and name blaming right across the board. They've had different boards in and they've finished up blaming each other, which is tragic for the fans.

 

"It's the fans that I really feel sorry for. Not only that we're coming up to a big, big game, a home game on Saturday and you just don't know what effect this is going to have on the players."

 

The SLH board will hold emergency talks at St Mary's on Wednesday afternoon.

[West End Saint]

Lengthy report from Gary Cotterill on SSN. Precis follows:

 

The meeting at SMS has broken up - some members joined the meeting remotely (Lowe is in London).

 

SLH has gone into administration (although he also wrongly used the word "liquidation" a few times).

 

Press conference with the administrators expected tomorrow afternoon.

 

Rupert Lowe appears to have "cleverly dodged" the 10 point penalty (also went on to describe Lowe as a very clever and astute businessman who has seen this loophole and gone for it!!!).

 

League yet to 100% confirm that the 10 point penalty will not apply.

 

Likely to provoke fury from other clubs - and from Ken Bates.

 

Noted the Derby County precedent.

 

Much as I hate Rupert if we have dodged the point deduction fair play as Lowe is a director of the holding company will it mean he is out on his ear and we dont have to put up with the red faced duck hunting hockey playing T W A T ?

 

I have also heard there is a buyout waiting in the wings to take us over once the plc is no more they are holding off to see if we avoid relegation and to see if the gate improves once Lowe has gone

[Guest flickjax]

Will the administrators act quickly and remove Lowe and Wilde from SLH and SFC? If they do act quickly then attendances will rise and give a boost to the Club's finances and its chances of avoiding relegation.

 

I have read that the Echo and the Saints Trust are calling for all supporters to come back. But Lowe and Wilde need to be removed to enable that to happen. Sad that the Trust do not understand that.

 

 

Oh Dear....so you think the fans would rather the club disappeared? If thats the case we arent worth saving.....

[trousers]

"Last October, SLH's bank Barclays significantly reduced the company's overdraft facility."

 

So, despite people saying that Barclays wouldn't pull the rug for fear of bad publicity....that's exactly what they've done effectively, isn't it...?

[trousers]

And the chairman of the Saints Trust, Nick Illingsworth, told BBC Radio Solent: "I think everyone will be shocked. People I speak to just don't believe a club the size of Southampton would do this.

 

"Attendances have dropped below the 15,000 mark at one stage and many supporters have said 'I'm not putting my money into Rupert Lowe etc' on the basis that they don't realise how desperate this is.

 

"Now we know how desperate it is. No Saints supporter can turn round and say 'I didn't realise the club was in trouble'."

 

Is it me or does that read that Nick Illingsworth is blaming the 'stay away' fans for this turn of events?