What is going on at SFC - Discussion

SaintRichmond · 3 April, 2009

This part can't be true' date=' surely? If it is, then it doesn't matter whether Lowe throws his toys out of the pram at Barclays, this whole episode could have been avoidable.[/quote']

No "suitor" was ever right for Rupert Lowe .... because it would have meant him losing his "power"

Even the much maligned SISA

Compare Coventry to Saints now ........ who would now say that "it is not the right deal for us" ........... as Lowe did

Well, it has certainly helped Coventry .... whereas, under the Gross Stupidity of Lowe, we are literally facing Extinction

..... Lowe the Businessman ..... yet another FAILED Enterprise ......... I'm surprised that the RBS havn't snapped him up

dubai_phil · 3 April, 2009

From the Evening Standard - .........

But debts are now reckoned to have topped £30 million, and a string of suitors offering to bail out and buy the club were rebuffed by the board.

Ouch I sincerely hope they have documentary proof to back THAT statement up in court

mattyd · 3 April, 2009

These suitors can now buy the club on the cheap, not be liable for the unsecured debt and start a fresh. With the bonus that Lowe and Co have gone.

Ponty · 3 April, 2009

If there were a string of suitors rebuffed by Lowe, or who couldn't work with Lowe, where the **** are they now he's gone? Lot of smelly stuff around IMO.

SaintRichmond · 3 April, 2009

These suitors can now buy the club on the cheap, not be liable for the unsecured debt and start a fresh. With the bonus that Lowe and Co have gone.

Is that FACT ???? ...... If so, then I'm amazed that Suitors are not lining up around St Mary's already ???

Channon's Sideburns · 3 April, 2009

These suitors can now buy the club on the cheap, not be liable for the unsecured debt and start a fresh. With the bonus that Lowe and Co have gone.

I'm surprised that Rupey turned these suitors down.....hehehe

bridge too far · 3 April, 2009

From the Evening Standard - including quotes from Lowe

Southampton's financial crisis has been an open secret in football circles for months, but chairman Rupert Lowe today launched an extraordinary attack blaming the club's troubles on its bankers Barclays. Lowe - who is also chairman of broker WH Ireland, recently embroiled in controversy over the takeover of a rival - said: "This a bizarre situation and should have been avoided. I am frankly amazed that Barclays have done what they have done."

I love it when these bloated capitalists fight amongst themselves

DT · 3 April, 2009

Talksport are going to be ranting about how unjust it is on Luton Town any minute now...

OldNick · 3 April, 2009

I love it when these bloated capitalists fight amongst themselves

your judgement is under question BTF a Pompey fan as your other half and meeting Brown and listening to Benn. You do know how to pick them, what did you do bad in your last life????

bridge too far · 3 April, 2009

your judgement is under question BTF a Pompey fan as your other half and meeting Brown and listening to Benn. You do know how to pick them, what did you do bad in your last life????

I DO indeed know how to pick 'em Nick

I haven't had a former life but obviously the life I do have is rich and rewarding in a fulfilling and altruistic way.

It even gives me the tolerance and strength of character to make allowances for you and your ilk :smt008

dubai_phil · 3 April, 2009

I had no idea that 10 minutes was such a long time

thorpie the sinner · 3 April, 2009

30 to go Phil, 30 to go!!!!!

derry · 3 April, 2009

The big and significant difference between Southampton FC Ltd and nearly all other clubs is that it is owned by a quoted public company.

The league insisted that the public company could not be the football club because of it's requirement to adhere to plc rules.

It insisted that the football club had to be entirely separate from the holding company and have a separate board and finances subservient to league rules such as no litigation.

They can hardly complain now the that holding company goes into administration but the company subservient to the league is trading and for the moment solvent.

At this time I think a lot of the rhetoric is based on the premise ' don't get confused by the facts'. In other words we know it's not the same but if we shout loud enough it might be that way. Not with the Lawyers and Administrators involved it won't.

I think the league's lawyers will be combing their rules, if they can't make it stick, they would be stupid to try. Especially as the plc could sue them whilst the club couldn't.

chi saint · 3 April, 2009

From the Evening Standard - including quotes from Lowe

Barclays is at the centre of an embarrassing row today as the bank, sponsor of the English Premiership, was accused of "sentencing to death" Southampton Football Club.

Championship side Southampton, one of the few clubs listed on the stock market, saw parent company Southampton Leisure fall into administration yesterday. Its shares had been suspended a day earlier after it admitted it was unable to get its half-year accounts signed off by its auditors by the 31 March deadline.

Southampton's financial crisis has been an open secret in football circles for months, but chairman Rupert Lowe today launched an extraordinary attack blaming the club's troubles on its bankers Barclays. Lowe - who is also chairman of broker WH Ireland, recently embroiled in controversy over the takeover of a rival - said: "This a bizarre situation and should have been avoided. I am frankly amazed that Barclays have done what they have done."

He accused the bank of effectively foreclosing on a £4 million overdraft facility with the club.

"I don't consider £4 million to be a very substantial figure in terms of salaries paid to people like Bob Diamond," he said, referring to the head of Barclays Capital who has for years routinely been paid more than £20 million a year. Lowe claimed Barclays had agreed to relax overdraft arrangements to enable Southampton to pay its player wages of £1 million a month, but then bounced three cheques.

Barclays said it was making "ongoing efforts to find a suitable solution" but the club required "substantial further investment".

Southampton, currently in the Championship relegation zone, has had a roller-coaster ride in the past two years. It had been hoped the sales of Theo Walcott to Arsenal and Gareth Bale to Tottenham Hotspur would stabilise the club financially.

But debts are now reckoned to have topped £30 million, and a string of suitors offering to bail out and buy the club were rebuffed by the board.

Well i'm no great Lowe luvvie and like 99.9% of the population I don't really know what has taken place in the past years in terms of finances and vested interests.

But I have to say listening to him being interviewed about the state of the club before he was ousted, in terms of the overdraft and money on deposit, he does make some important and plausible points. If he is too be believed it's whilst he was out of the picture that things really started to go down hill in terms of finances.

Again one has to be cynical but as he says no one has attempted to sue him for his previous assertions and listening to him I get the mpression if he'd have not be temporarily side lined we may, and note I say may, not be in this current situation.

Before the abuse comes thick and fast i'm not disputing he's divisive nor that he made some bad decisions in respect of managers etc but just that financially he seems more astute than some others who have held the reins of late.

rallyboy · 3 April, 2009

sorry Chi but for me he has proved that he cannot be believed, and as for this myth of financial acumen, before he stumbled into football he was the Frank Spencer of the stocks and shares sector and he has just resided over two train wrecks in four years, so I am sorry but I wouldn't trust him to sit the right way on a toilet let alone look after a fiver.

A very poor businessman with an arrogant attitude towards fans, former players and local businesses - not a good combination, and the main reason he could have his birthday party in a phone box.

Byebye Rupert, hello anyone! COYR

these things take time · 4 April, 2009

This really does make me wonder how we were able to afford, was it up to £1.2m in the summer for Schneiderlin. In addition to the amount of loans we brought in when you think of loan fees, wages, getting them set up in the area. Didn't we also have bids for the likes of Anthony Gerrard turned down in the summer?

Also, we rejected bids for some our players in January, why did we do this? Why didn't the bank accept the bids for us, or was there not so much of a crisis then.

Even this season has been completely mismanaged. If we had a competent coach from the start of the season we would be in immediate threat of relegation. Which staying up or going down could be the difference between someone buying the club and choosing not to. Would you invest in a club one league off the premiership, with a bigger crowd than last year, and more press and tv coverage. Or, a team with decreasing crowds, much harder to sustain the club as much less tv money, and visiting the likes of Edgely Park next season.

Poorly written I know, but i'm very tired. I hope I still manage to get my point across which in summary is this: Lowe's management on his return and the incompetent Poortvliet may have screwed up any chance of investment. I hope this is not the case. But I really feel relegation may be the end for us. So it is imperative we stay up.

3 points against Charlton is essential COYS

dubai_phil · 4 April, 2009

This really does make me wonder how we were able to afford, was it up to £1.2m in the summer for Schneiderlin. In addition to the amount of loans we brought in when you think of loan fees, wages, getting them set up in the area. Didn't we also have bids for the likes of Anthony Gerrard turned down in the summer?

Also, we rejected bids for some our players in January, why did we do this? Why didn't the bank accept the bids for us, or was there not so much of a crisis then.

Even this season has been completely mismanaged. If we had a competent coach from the start of the season we would be in immediate threat of relegation. Which staying up or going down could be the difference between someone buying the club and choosing not to. Would you invest in a club one league off the premiership, with a bigger crowd than last year, and more press and tv coverage. Or, a team with decreasing crowds, much harder to sustain the club as much less tv money, and visiting the likes of Edgely Park next season.

Poorly written I know, but i'm very tired. I hope I still manage to get my point across which in summary is this: Lowe's management on his return and the incompetent Poortvliet may have screwed up any chance of investment. I hope this is not the case. But I really feel relegation may be the end for us. So it is imperative we stay up.
3 points against Charlton is essential COYS

First post - find a tin hat as the world decides who's side you were on.

One point I'd critique on though

Lowe's management on his return and the incompetent Poortvliet may have screwed up any chance of investment.

More like screwed up any chance of surviving the season in the CCC, with sufficient attendances to keep the cash flow running at the levels the bank needed.

Forget the arguments about stay-aways, the primary drop in attendance and cash flow was simply that the "product" on offer at SMS was cr8p value for money for the fans QED we ran out of money.

The investment argument is a side issue and I am sure that once the dust settles and NDA's become obsolete a lot of stories wait to be told.

Meanwhile the public updates from the Administrators about "the search for a buyer" should be eagerly anticipated by all. I hope they let us know before the game whether there has been ANY interest, it may help motivate everyone this afternoon

charliemiller · 4 April, 2009

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1087589/Latest-East-End-soap-Chairman-quit-Zola-players-January.html counter Luton getting the hump about the PLC and points deduction with this ??

west ham did it why cant Saints

Viking Warrior · 4 April, 2009

As Phil said I believe a lot more will be revealed over what has or has not happened. The Blame culture will continue for sometime to come.

I have watched the lowe broadcast twice now to get a much better understanding of the current state of events. He does make some important points about financial prudence. He's not necessarily pointing the finger at Crouch but more towards Hone, Dalleu and oldknow. I think thats where a lot of the problems stem from.

In time people will start to be less hostile towards people who try to make reasoned comments about the last 72 hours, But there have been come decent posters who are gettig some real **** thrown at them for having the view they have. What is clear we are still a divided fan base on this site at least.

I hope that investment is not to far away. I will do my bit re buying a season ticket etc. but that will not be enough. There are so many tyre kickers about even hone hoos and co said they were talking to umpteen people about potential takeovers. None ever materilised.

Anyway Im trying to remain optomistic about the furture. Tomorrows another day and maybe Saltz and Fulthorpe will through in some loose change to keep the club afloat

Come On You saints do it for the fans this afternoon

70's Mike · 4 April, 2009

As Phil said I believe a lot more will be revealed over what has or has not happened. The Blame culture will continue for sometime to come.

I have watched the lowe broadcast twice now to get a much better understanding of the current state of events. He does make some important points about financial prudence. He's not necessarily pointing the finger at Crouch but more towards Hone, Dalleu and oldknow. I think thats where a lot of the problems stem from.

In time people will start to be less hostile towards people who try to make reasoned comments about the last 72 hours, But there have been come decent posters who are gettig some real **** thrown at them for having the view they have. What is clear we are still a divided fan base on this site at least.

I hope that investment is not to far away. I will do my bit re buying a season ticket etc. but that will not be enough. There are so many tyre kickers about even hone hoos and co said they were talking to umpteen people about potential takeovers. None ever materilised.
Anyway Im trying to remain optomistic about the furture. Tomorrows another day and maybe Saltz and Fulthorpe will through in some loose change to keep the club afloat

Come On You saints do it for the fans this afternoon

Reasonable post but i suppose the difference between Hone and co talking to potential buyers and now is that the administrators DO NOT have to get Lowe and co to agree to that takeover

um pahars · 4 April, 2009

One point I'd critique on though

Lowe's management on his return and the incompetent Poortvliet may have screwed up any chance of investment.

More like screwed up any chance of surviving the season in the CCC, with sufficient attendances to keep the cash flow running at the levels the bank needed.

Forget the arguments about stay-aways, the primary drop in attendance and cash flow was simply that the "product" on offer at SMS was cr8p value for money for the fans QED we ran out of money.

The investment argument is a side issue and I am sure that once the dust settles and NDA's become obsolete a lot of stories wait to be told.

I would have to agree Phil, in that this year has been a disaster on and therefore off the pitch, which meant rather than being a season of potantial survival and taking stock, it just ensured we slipped down further.

Did it affect finding invesmtent?? I have no idea. I suppose relegation could have an issue on whether people would come in for us, but then again there are also a myriad of other issues in play.

Viking Warrior · 4 April, 2009

Mike

I had forgotton about the fact we dont require the parties to agree to a takeover.

which make the process afar easier without the boards squabbling all the time.

Just listened to Baj's post re SSN and the administrator sounds positive.

the comment of expressions of interest upwards of 15 was good to hear, thats with in only a few hours of going into administration. Sure some will be chancers/media

trying to find a story to sell in their papers But would I be right in thinking that the genuine

buyers maybe holding back before considering a formal bid?

Go to most auctions and there are those who play the opening gambit bidding knowing full well the big players are keeping thier powder dry.

Two thing for sure who will not be playing are Rupes and any iclandic business men

70's Mike · 4 April, 2009

Mike

I had forgotton about the fact we dont require the parties to agree to a takeover.
which make the process afar easier without the boards squabbling all the time.

Just listened to Baj's post re SSN and the administrator sounds positive.

the comment of expressions of interest upwards of 15 was good to hear, thats with in only a few hours of going into administration. Sure some will be chancers/media
trying to find a story to sell in their papers But would I be right in thinking that the genuine
buyers maybe holding back before considering a formal bid?

Go to most auctions and there are those who play the opening gambit bidding knowing full well the big players are keeping thier powder dry.

Two thing for sure who will not be playing are Rupes and any iclandic business men

the administrator will have to be seen to get the best deal for the creditors and supply info to the buyers as to current position i do not expect any real news for a few weeks as they weigh up the various inquirys

funny i have never seen eye to eye with your posts but with rupert gone we are agreeing

what is the world coming too

these things take time · 4 April, 2009

First post - find a tin hat as the world decides who's side you were on.

One point I'd critique on though

Lowe's management on his return and the incompetent Poortvliet may have screwed up any chance of investment.

More like screwed up any chance of surviving the season in the CCC, with sufficient attendances to keep the cash flow running at the levels the bank needed.

Forget the arguments about stay-aways, the primary drop in attendance and cash flow was simply that the "product" on offer at SMS was cr8p value for money for the fans QED we ran out of money.

What I meant by this was that Lowe's incompetence (2nd time round), may get us relegated which would make us a much less attractive investment. Which in my opinion, would mean it's more likely we won't find a buyer and cease to exist.

On another note, I must add I really don't think Lowe & co. saw this coming. Was it only a week or two ago that Chris Perry signed a contract extension. Hardly the actions of a club thinking they'll be in admin soon. I really hope and believe we can come out of this stronger, especially with the fans finally united.

As for the points deduction, I can't see it happening. However flawed the rules are, we haven't broken them. They can't change the law after we've gone into admin and punish us for breaking the new law.

As i've only got the three posts a day, i'll add in what an excellent job the mods are doing keeping us updated with stickies.

BELIEVE

Viking Warrior · 4 April, 2009

Likerwise Mike

I guess it shows how much the boardroom shambles has deflected us both away from our real passion. the actual football

Im sure we will have different opinions in the future, but hopefully it will be purely about football and how such and such a player played during a game

Here to a good win this afternoon. Charlton must be very worried as they know sainst and the fans will be well bouyed up for this game

Regards

Another

Mike

NickG · 4 April, 2009

Administrator on radio said he has been pleased with interest so far

There is a danger of time wasters due to the interest in owning a football club so at early stage and before any discussions he is insisting interested parties prove their funds and intentions.

Lowe has told him he will not be party to any consortium.

Crouch and LMc not involved in any of the interested parties.

The Rover · 4 April, 2009

A view from an old friend Saintlee

http://plasticsaints.myfreeforum.org/about8549.html

Good to read Saintlee posting again.

I would say that of all the vanished posters and admins on this site he is the most missed over recent months. He always tried to update us on what was happening (much as Fitzhugh Fella does) and with no cynicism, sarcasm or one upmanship.

Perhaps Plastic Saints is the place to go for reasoned discussion nowadays.

teamsaint · 4 April, 2009

I wonder id aviva might try to do some sort of debt for equity deal.

NickG · 4 April, 2009

on an aside did you hear the messages from Bournemouth fans on Solent saying hoped we get docked 25 points

Channon's Sideburns · 4 April, 2009

on an aside did you hear the messages from Bournemouth fans on Solent saying hoped we get docked 25 points

Yep, hope we no longer pass them any players on loan - ungrateful bastards.

saint lard · 4 April, 2009

Administrator on radio said he has been pleased with interest so far

There is a danger of time wasters due to the interest in owning a football club so at early stage and before any discussions he is insisting interested parties prove their funds and intentions.

Lowe has told him he will not be party to any consortium.

Crouch and LMc not involved in any of the interested parties.

Well,atleast something positive will come of all this,IMO.

CHAPEL END CHARLIE · 5 April, 2009

The proverbial straw that broke the camels back was this trifling amount of money - for the cost of a second hand Ford Mondeo Rupert put the business into Administration .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/05/said-and-done

It would have come to this sooner or later anyway to be honest but Barclay's haven't exactly covered themselves in glory have they ?

dubai_phil · 5 April, 2009

The proverbial straw that broke the camels back was this trifling amount of money - for the cost of a second hand Ford Mondeo Rupert put the business into Administration .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/05/said-and-done

It would have come to this sooner or later anyway to be honest but Barclay's haven't exactly covered themselves in glory have they ?

Think technically you should say "for the cost of a second hand Mondeo Rupert DROVE the business into Administration".

I'm pretty sure from all the rumours I have heard that it was Barclays Bank that PUT the business into Administration. And how they can say they support and sponsor football and then do something like THAT seems to hold the potential to be as big a PR gaffe and RBS pensions.

But it may also explain why, if we were screwed over 6k, we needed to do some tin rattling yesterday

derry · 5 April, 2009

Think technically you should say "for the cost of a second hand Mondeo Rupert DROVE the business into Administration".

I'm pretty sure from all the rumours I have heard that it was Barclays Bank that PUT the business into Administration. And how they can say they support and sponsor football and then do something like THAT seems to hold the potential to be as big a PR gaffe and RBS pensions.

But it may also explain why, if we were screwed over 6k, we needed to do some tin rattling yesterday

Phil, just maybe they did have the viability together with their own interests at heart.

I can't believe that people like Crouch, Salz etc weren't talking to Barclays executives.

I also can't believe that Barclays had not reached the same conclusion that virtually everybody else had, unless Lowe was parted from his shares and the company nothing could realistically move forward.

Once the bank, lawyers, administrators, potential bidders had identified the 10 point loophole, it was a window to take and try and avoid relegation. Although the management/team are doing their best to bugger up that theory.

dubai_phil · 5 April, 2009

Phil, just maybe they did have the viability together with their own interests at heart.

I can't believe that people like Crouch, Salz etc weren't talking to Barclays executives.

I also can't believe that Barclays had not reached the same conclusion that virtually everybody else had, unless Lowe was parted from his shares and the company nothing could realistically move forward.

Once the bank, lawyers, administrators, potential bidders had identified the 10 point loophole, it was a window to take and try and avoid relegation. Although the management/team are doing their best to bugger up that theory.

I'm sure there is a story in there that can all be told one day about who said what at which meeting to whom and for why.....

But that depends on who gets the keys to the train sets and reads any memos that weren't shredded.

Whatever happens, don't worry too much about the Lowe PR. I'm sure the winners will have their pounds of flesh when the other side of the story can be told.

Saintandy666 · 7 April, 2009

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4273449.Football_League_delays_Saints_decision/

Looks like we are gonna have to wait...

Edited 7 April, 2009 by Saintandy666

WokingSaint · 7 April, 2009

Perhaps this needs a new thread but, as I am unable to do so, I'm putting forward this topic on here.

With all that has happened in the last few years there is one person, as far as I know, that we have heard nothing from. That is the Club President, John Mortimore. Is he around? Is he interested? Does he have nothing to say even just a rallying call. I'm not sure he should ever have been elected President but that is what he is. I think Ted Bates might have had something to say.

CityRanger · 8 April, 2009

This has recently appeared on the Times website:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article6059682.ece

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