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What is going on at SFC - Discussion

Pancake

By Pancake
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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted
As I guess, the Board Meeting had no choice but to vote for Admin. That decision then needs to go through a process of people (I guess lawyers and stock brokers or something) and then be done by them in some formal fashion, so the correct answer right now is that Admin is probably pending
Thought you might be exhausted and asleep now!
Clapham Saint

Clapham Saint

Posted
Posted
What worries me is the potential **** storms that could follow us avoiding it.

Say we do survive (it is still possible) and stay up. And say a club goes down by like a point difference. They could then sue the league Sheff Utd style for not docking points etc. Especially if going down then leads them to financial ruin.

Reading through the Derby case it is very clear that the club was Bought by a consortium and some of the debts were transfered which was probably why the creditors agreed to it.

Now what i don't get is the time frame for that. It sounds pretty instant. I.e they announced going under then were bought out a few minutes later.

How long are we able to stay in our state of limbo before we have to declare admin? If at that point we have not been sold or received any financial investments won't that mean the PLC and SLH will both go into admin as i doubt the PLC will have the funds to keep the club afloat?

 

Although there are a number of possible scenarios one possibility for what will happen is:

 

In order to gain some protection from creditors the Directors can file a "notice of intention to appoint administrators"

 

Filing this document at court doesn't place the Company into administration but it does give the Company protection from any action being taken by creditors (via a moratorium on the Company's debts)

 

The protection lasts 10 working days (so 2 weeks).

 

 

Edit: Just realised that I have slightly misread what you were asking.

 

All the same the above is a possiblility if the directors want more time to negotiate with potential investors.

St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted
Although there are a number of possible scenarios one possibility for what will happen is:

 

In order to gain some protection from creditors the Directors can file a "notice of intention to appoint administrators"

 

Filing this document at court doesn't place the Company into administration but it does give the Company protection from any action being taken by creditors (via a moratorium on the Company's debts)

 

The protection lasts 10 working days (so 2 weeks).

 

 

Edit: Just realised that I have slightly misread what you were asking.

 

All the same the above is a possiblility if the directors want more time to negotiate with potential investors.

 

Cheers Clapham

 

So basically everything can stay as it is for up to 2 weeks then if no money has been found will mean the club goes into admin?

 

I had heard that Begbies Traynor were going to step in and do the admin. I think i read that on the Times piece.

 

Another question is if the club goes into protection and the bank won't be paying anymore money does this also mean the players/staff will continue to be paid or does it mean they won't?

Because if they don't get paid isn't there some sort of football rule where if you haven't been paid for a period of time you are free to leave?

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Thought you might be exhausted and asleep now!

 

;)

 

Strange things have been happening of late. Not least standing in a bar last night doing Moet's as shots with a Sheikh...

 

Can't stay, time's a moving

Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

So the next question is what do we know of how SLH going into admin, effect SFC Ltd? And is this loophole re the points deduction safe, or wishful thinking? who is in control and who will come away owning teh football club?

Fitzhugh Fella

Fitzhugh Fella

Posted
Posted
;)

 

Strange things have been happening of late. Not least standing in a bar last night doing Moet's as shots with a Sheikh...

 

Can't stay, time's a moving

 

Please don't tell me you were also with St David and Life long? :)

Clapham Saint

Clapham Saint

Posted
Posted
isnt it basically, Liquidation means that the company is closed down and all assets split out across anyone that is owe by the Recievers; where as Administration means that someone else (a professional administrator) is running the company to try and get as much out of it for the creditors as possible?

 

Very very almost.

 

There are essentially 5 insolvency procedures relevant to corporate entities. All are slightly different.

 

The below is a very very basic summary but in broad order of termiality (from least to most severe):

 

1) CVA - effecitively coming to a deal with the creditors

2) LPA Receivership - Usually over a single asset which the receiver (estate agent) will sell for the best price he can on behalf of the bank

3) Administrative Receivership - Only relevant if the banks charge is pre-enterprise act and so I don;t think will apply.

4) Aministration - An administrator takes over the running of the company and can continue trading to get the best realisations he can

5) Liquidation - A liquidator closes the doors. Shuts everything down and flogs it off.

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Please don't tell me you were also with St David and Life long? :)

Come on FF tell us what you know, these are torrid times, we need a fix

Rational Rich

Rational Rich

Posted
Posted
So do we know the actual fact? Are SLH actually in admin? I though so far only share trading has been suspended as we had broken AIM rules re submitting half yearly accounts - which the club say is to try and refinace some things... have we heard anything else officially?

 

Frank, the Times reported earlier that SLH have gone into admin, but no-one else seems to be following their lead. However, they seemed to be setting the agenda last night/this morning and so may have sources who are close to what is happening.

 

At some point a notice to appoint administrators and an appointment will need to be filed at court, so it may just be a case of form filling and submission before an official announcement is made. No-one is issuing statements refuting this, which you would expect if it was not imminent (due to the impact the rumours could have on the business).

Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
Cheers Clapham

 

Another question is if the club goes into protection and the bank won't be paying anymore money does this also mean the players/staff will continue to be paid or does it mean they won't?

Because if they don't get paid isn't there some sort of football rule where if you haven't been paid for a period of time you are free to leave?

 

I think it's 3 months and the company have deemed to have broken the contract with the players.

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Please don't tell me you were also with St David and Life long? :)

Haven't seen StD for about 14 months, had a few beers with LLS back in December on my way through to see my mum, as he sorted out a ticket for my son to see the Man U game.

 

So nah sorry it was Petie from Iraq's leaving party - sortta got a bit out of hand... but at least it stopped me sitting here all night worrying how bad things were and how the powers that be would look at whoever leaked yesterday

 

Oh and yes of course I did ask the Sheik bloke something like shlood blew spike to try a fussball flub, need your credit card number pleesh. No idea why that didn't work. Not even sure where the Sheikhdom of Habbla habbla hiccup is to be honest but he did pay for the Moet so fair play

Clapham Saint

Clapham Saint

Posted
Posted
Cheers Clapham

 

So basically everything can stay as it is for up to 2 weeks then if no money has been found will mean the club goes into admin?

 

I had heard that Begbies Traynor were going to step in and do the admin. I think i read that on the Times piece.

 

Another question is if the club goes into protection and the bank won't be paying anymore money does this also mean the players/staff will continue to be paid or does it mean they won't?

Because if they don't get paid isn't there some sort of football rule where if you haven't been paid for a period of time you are free to leave?

 

Possibly. It depends if that's the route that the Directors take. I would be suprised if the planning for this hasn't been going on for a long time (months rather than weeks).

 

What the directors chose to do will depend on the legal advise they have taken, the progress which has been made with potential purchasers, the stance of the Banks, the stance of HMRC.... (this list could go on for ages).

 

I suspect that the players probably would be paid. If protection is sought via a notice of intention to appoint the Bank could freeze the account and not let any payments be made.

 

More likely is that the Bank have been part of discussions from the begining and will allow salaries to go through in order to maintain the value of the club to a potential purchaser.

 

Wages are also normally paid at the end of the month i.e. 1 day ago.

 

I would be surprised if the timing is coincidence.

derry

derry

Posted
Posted
Possibly. It depends if that's the route that the Directors take. I would be suprised if the planning for this hasn't been going on for a long time (months rather than weeks).

 

What the directors chose to do will depend on the legal advise they have taken, the progress which has been made with potential purchasers, the stance of the Banks, the stance of HMRC.... (this list could go on for ages).

 

I suspect that the players probably would be paid. If protection is sought via a notice of intention to appoint the Bank could freeze the account and not let any payments be made.

 

More likely is that the Bank have been part of discussions from the begining and will allow salaries to go through in order to maintain the value of the club to a potential purchaser.

 

Wages are also normally paid at the end of the month i.e. 1 day ago.

 

I would be surprised if the timing is coincidence.

 

When SISU were looking at Coventry, prior to the takeover being agreed the bank kept the club going and paid the salaries.

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
What now for the Saints Trust?Surely they are in an even weaker position than they were before with no share holding what's so ever with SLH going in to Admin!!!!!

 

I didn't realise they were even doing anything anymore.

Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
I didn't realise they were even doing anything anymore.

 

Yep they have organised a march outside the Civic Centre on Thursday.....quite why I am not sure but think its to show that the fans are still about and wont let the club die.

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
Yep they have organised a march outside the Civic Centre on Thursday.....quite why I am not sure but think its to show that the fans are still about and wont let the club die.

 

Really? First i've heard of it, won't be a great turn out then.

St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted
Bit on sky sports news coming up soon.

 

Just about to come on. The girl (who is well fit btw) said "Find out why Saints could be docked points when we come back".......Maybe they not heard about our plan?

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
Just about to come on. The girl (who is well fit btw) said "Find out why Saints could be docked points when we come back".......Maybe they not heard about our plan?

 

Rule 1.

St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

All they said on SSN was that the Football League would not be held to saying Saints would avoid the points penalty.

Listening to the brothers on radio hampshire might be interesting tonight.

Eastcowzer

Eastcowzer

Posted
Posted
I dont think we are deep in the mire but it is only a guess based on this from the Echo

 

Derby County provided the precedent which has seen Saints avoid a 10-point deduction for their parent company going into administration.

 

Back in October 2003, when ex-Saints boss George Burley was in charge at Pride Park, the Rams' parent company Derby County PLC were taken into receivership by the Co-op bank with debts of around £30m.

 

But Derby County Football Club, a seperate organisation under the umbrella of the Derby County PLC company, were not taken into administration and had no points deduction.

 

Within minutes of Derby County Ltd going into receivership, a consortium took over from them and that company ceased to exist.

 

 

So we may have new owners

 

Would the Chairman of SLH, (in admin'), be allowed to buy SFC. ?

John B

John B

Posted
Posted
Would the Chairman of SLH, (in admin'), be allowed to buy SFC. ?

 

No idea but I would think not

 

Apparently

RUPERT Lowe has said the number one concern is to keep the football club alive.

 

He says that the imminent administration of the club's parent company - Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC - has been done with the sole intention of keeping the football club safe and attracting new investors.

 

"It's now about keeping Southampton Football Club alive. This is the only way it could have been done.

 

"If we can stay in the Championship this club has a good chance of finding new investment. We have young players who are committed and will flourish in the future."

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
No idea but I would think not

 

Apparently

RUPERT Lowe has said the number one concern is to keep the football club alive.

 

He says that the imminent administration of the club's parent company - Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC - has been done with the sole intention of keeping the football club safe and attracting new investors.

 

"It's now about keeping Southampton Football Club alive. This is the only way it could have been done.

"If we can stay in the Championship this club has a good chance of finding new investment. We have young players who are committed and will flourish in the future."

 

Depends what he is referring to here.

Topcat

Topcat

Posted
Posted

One puzzling factor for me is why the Club's lenders thought that Lowe was a fit and proper person to be allowed back in to run the Club?

 

They could easily see the terrible image he had with many fans and factor in that he would knock thousands off the gates.

 

That alone would reduce the income by several millions of pounds. For a business in a precarious position the "Lowe factor" on attendances was something that sensible lenders should have understood.

 

Serves them right if they take a hit.

Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted

So we are not officially in admin but very likely to be. My question is what will it mean to SFC? It looks as if we will not be deducted 10 points but I assume the "ownership" of the ground will transfer to the creditors. If that is the case I'm also assuming it can be sold to - well anyone with the dosh?

John B

John B

Posted
Posted
So we are not officially in admin but very likely to be. My question is what will it mean to SFC? It looks as if we will not be deducted 10 points but I assume the "ownership" of the ground will transfer to the creditors. If that is the case I'm also assuming it can be sold to - well anyone with the dosh?

 

Yes probably correct but nothing confirmed

eelpie

eelpie

Posted
Posted
As I guess, the Board Meeting had no choice but to vote for Admin. That decision then needs to go through a process of people (I guess lawyers and stock brokers or something) and then be done by them in some formal fashion, so the correct answer right now is that Admin is probably pending

 

That doesn't explain why they did not come to this decision last week before the 10 points deduction became enforcable. Cretins.

John B

John B

Posted
Posted
that doesn't explain why they did not come to this decision last week before the 10 points deduction became enforcable. Cretins.

 

because the football club is not in administration only the plc

eelpie

eelpie

Posted
Posted
I agree. The only realistic chance we had was the SISU deal. Had we have tied that up, we'd now be on an even keel financially, and likely have Chris Coleman as manager.

 

Yet another example of a pathetic, self-interested, failing of our (successive) boards. Frankly none of them have been up to the job.

 

The fans, and the City deserve better than the clowns we have holding the reigns.

 

I have not doubt there is NO white knight on the horizon, and it also wouldn't surprise me if the League didn't act in some way re. a points deduction this season.

 

Leave those hard-working honest men in the City out of this.

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