Announcement tomorrow 7AM?

[andysstuff]

It's all tax payers money, how much are the rates?

 

Nationally? gonna run into billions, the £500K odd on the stadium are a drop in the ocean compared to what would have been lost with the likes of MFI or Woolworths going into admin.

[Mole]

Anyways onwards and upwarrds, i'm off to plant a plum orchard.

[Rational Rich]

Never mind all the protestations ..... if SLH go into Administration ... that WILL mean Saints are deemed to be in Admi, and therefore the 10 points deduction WILL apply

 

If Lowe thinks otherewise, and has gambled on no points deduction, then he is a bigger fool than even I thought

 

Not the case. SLH will only bring SFC down if SFC is guaranteeing its debts (which is more than possible), but it might be decided by the beneficiaries of the guarantee (probably Barclays, NU) that a sale of the shares of the club to a third party would get them more money back than claiming under the guarantee.

[VectisSaint]

Funny because business experts seem to think it is possible.

Exactly why business experts should not run football clubs. If they were football experts they would see otherwise.

[VectisSaint]

Problem is it's not a business decision is it. It may all be above board from a legal point of view, but the FA make the decisions. If they think we've tried to avoid punishment they'll still hit us with penalties.

To be pedantic, its not the FA, its the Football league that have the Admin rules. Eikther way it will amount to the same thing, 10 points this season and at least 10 points next as well. Why didn't the 2 idiots force this last week, nothing has changed since last Thursday.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Wonder whether Askham is assessing his losses this morning?

 

Serves him right - what a vile little man.

[SaintRichmond]

Not the case. SLH will only bring SFC down if SFC is guaranteeing its debts (which is more than possible), but it might be decided by the beneficiaries of the guarantee (probably Barclays, NU) that a sale of the shares of the club to a third party would get them more money back than claiming under the guarantee.

 

 

The people that run the FA will view it quite differently, mark my words

 

 

Ask Ken Bates ........ he thought he'd fiddled it for Leeds

[OldNick]

Why didn't the 2 idiots force this last week, nothing has changed since last Thursday.

That is why I wonder if they do have something up their sleeves.It was madness not to do so last week if it was definately happening.

[dubai_phil]

Never mind all the protestations ..... if SLH go into Administration ... that WILL mean Saints are deemed to be in Admi, and therefore the 10 points deduction WILL apply

 

If Lowe thinks otherewise, and has gambled on no points deduction, then he is a bigger fool than even I thought

 

OK so how does that stack up with the story that if West Ham United PLC going into liquidation because of the debts of their Icelandic owner, the football club would continue?

 

Nobody at the club will break the law - that's why they suspended shares. However, there is no reason to assume that they cannot USE the law.

 

And again, as I have said many times, things are never as simple as we think, we don't like the PLC but we really have no detailed ideas of how it is structured and what professional advisors are telling the club at this time

[hypochondriac]

That is why I wonder if they do have something up their sleeves.It was madness not to do so last week if it was definately happening.

 

I wouldn't put it past them...

[bridge too far]

That is why I wonder if they do have something up their sleeves.It was madness not to do so last week if it was definately happening.

 

You can bet your bottom dollar that if they have something up their sleeves, RL will come up smelling of roses

[samoakley]

Sad day for the club i think we should try and hold out untill after the charlton game if we win and get a big crowd surley the money gained and the 3 points is what we need.

[SaintRichmond]

OK so how does that stack up with the story that if West Ham United PLC going into liquidation because of the debts of their Icelandic owner, the football club would continue?

 

Nobody at the club will break the law - that's why they suspended shares. However, there is no reason to assume that they cannot USE the law.

 

And again, as I have said many times, things are never as simple as we think, we don't like the PLC but we really have no detailed ideas of how it is structured and what professional advisors are telling the club at this time

 

 

OK, Question ..... Of all the Football League Clubs that have gone into administration ....... are Saints the only one whose PARENT Company are in financial mire ???

 

I still say that the Football League/FA ? will simply say Admin is Admin .....

 

If Lowe HASN'T thought this through, then God help us ..... why on earth was this not done last week ???

[Scudamore]

Anyways onwards and upwarrds, i'm off to plant a plum orchard.

 

A plum planting plums? Ironic illiteration...sorry that was crass.

[St Marco]

Why don't we just wait to see if we are loosing points or not. Let be honest no one on here knows!

 

What i know as fact is this. If/when the company owning the club goes into admin the football league then set up a review. That review will be to see if Southampton Football Club has broken any of their rules. I have no doubt whatsoever after speaking to people that they will find the club is the company who have spent all the money, it was the club that makes the money. SLH and the PLC will be seen to be the same and due to the fact we have tried to wriggle out of it they will probably try and make an example of us. Que next season of court cases etc.

 

I will put my name to the flag now and stick my neck out and say "If SLH goes into admin Southampton FC will get a points penalty".

I fail to believe that all of the companies who have gone into admin have not thought of this way before nor tried to use it.

[SP Saint]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but I'd like to thank Duncan for letting us have the (sad) news ahead of anyone else and for doing it in a sensible and straightforward way.

[OldNick]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but I'd like to thank Duncan for letting us have the (sad) news ahead of anyone else and for doing it in a sensible and straightforward way.

Yep it was done in a dignified way and not pointing fingers.Top marks for that.

[AwaySaint1]

Bullsh*t.

 

Out of 10,000 members on this forum it looks like you have won prat of the season.

 

How does it feel ?

[exit2]

I will put my name to the flag now and stick my neck out and say "If SLH goes into admin Southampton FC will get a points penalty".

 

I agree totally, they are too closely tied things. The assets, the loans, even the board!

 

Leeds were LEEDS UNITED Limited and had various companies such as

 

LEEDS UNITED RETAIL LIMITED

LEEDS UNITED STADIUM LIMITED

LEEDS UNITED ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED

 

The parent company went tits ups as we know and all of these companies are disolved or in liquidation. Now they just run as LEEDS UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED.

 

This is the same scenario as we are in the parent company has gone tits up and we want to run as Southampton Football Club Limited

[dubai_phil]

What i know as fact is this. If/when the company owning the club goes into admin the football league then set up a review. That review will be to see if Southampton Football Club has broken any of their rules. I have no doubt whatsoever after speaking to people that they will find the club is the company who have spent all the money, it was the club that makes the money. SLH and the PLC will be seen to be the same and due to the fact we have tried to wriggle out of it they will probably try and make an example of us. Que next season of court cases etc.

 

I will put my name to the flag now and stick my neck out and say "If SLH goes into admin Southampton FC will get a points penalty".

I fail to believe that all of the companies who have gone into admin have not thought of this way before nor tried to use it.

 

FWIW I think you will find that the answer to how this is done lies not with the Board any longer but with lawyers and accountants. I would not be surprised to find that in the next few days or weeks the Administrator or whoever will be running up bills that could have bought us a decent CCC player. I expect the phone bills to be through the roof as well.

 

We "know" Lowe is stupid but even he will take advice to do what is LEGAL first, then IF the lawyers think there is a loophole that COULD save us 10 points next season, why would we as fans actually not support that attempt?

 

No idea how it will pan out but surprised we don't have a "man on the spot" with a Blackberry outside SMS today to track the comings and goings

[Third Division South Days]

Echo are claiming that they have contacted the football league who state that points will not be deducted if PLC goes into admin?

[JustMike]

What i know as fact is this. If/when the company owning the club goes into admin the football league then set up a review. That review will be to see if Southampton Football Club has broken any of their rules. I have no doubt whatsoever after speaking to people that they will find the club is the company who have spent all the money, it was the club that makes the money. SLH and the PLC will be seen to be the same and due to the fact we have tried to wriggle out of it they will probably try and make an example of us. Que next season of court cases etc.

 

I will put my name to the flag now and stick my neck out and say "If SLH goes into admin Southampton FC will get a points penalty".

I fail to believe that all of the companies who have gone into admin have not thought of this way before nor tried to use it.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4251026.Football_League_says_Saints_will_not_be_deducted_points/

 

or not

[hypochondriac]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4251026.Football_League_says_Saints_will_not_be_deducted_points/

 

or not

St MArco is being a numpty and should reserve comment until we have any evidence.

[once_bitterne]

Haven't West Ham avoided points deduction even tho their parent co. went into admin?

[JustMike]

Haven't West Ham avoided points deduction even tho their parent co. went into admin?

 

yes but they avoid lots of things dont they, Tevez deal etc

[once_bitterne]

If we avoid taking a points hit isn't this the biggest reason possible for us being a plc (or at least being owned by one) and a benefit that seems to have been completly and utterly overlooked!!!!!!

[trousers]

If we avoid taking a points hit isn't this the biggest reason possible for us being a plc (or at least being owned by one) and a benefit that seems to have been completly and utterly overlooked!!!!!!

 

In other words, we could have Lowe to thank for not being hit with a points penalty which could ultimately save us from relegation to League One?

[St Marco]

St MArco is being a numpty and should reserve comment until we have any evidence.

 

I'm speaking from a business perspective. I have worked as a business analyst for over 5 years now. I have seen companies do the strangest of things to try and survive. Especially in the last year or so what with the financial meltdown and all.

 

But i don't think you need to have that experience to make a intelligent judgement/assumption on this matter.

 

If multi-billion pound companies go under due to the fact they can no longer obtain help from the banks then why have they not just got their parent company to take the fall?

Because the parent company and all of the parent companies assets go with it.

 

In football terms if people such as Bates who have spent **** loads of money on the best lawyers he can get can't find loopholes like that then how could Lowe?

As Exit has mentioned other clubs have had other companies such as Leeds and they got deductions because of it.

How is our case any different?

 

So f you want to throw some insults around and act as a 2 year old then send them via PM to me and were deal with it there. I don't think the rest of the forum want to see childish slanging matches especially today.

[Scudamore]

In other words, we could have Lowe to thank for not being hit with a points penalty which could ultimately save us from relegation to League One?

 

Lowe Luvvie

[stanthemanfairoak]

Wonder whether Askham is assessing his losses this morning?

 

Serves him right - what a vile little man.

can`t agree more!

[SaintBobby]

I'm speaking from a business perspective. I have worked as a business analyst for over 5 years now. I have seen companies do the strangest of things to try and survive. Especially in the last year or so what with the financial meltdown and all.

 

But i don't think you need to have that experience to make a intelligent judgement/assumption on this matter.

 

If multi-billion pound companies go under due to the fact they can no longer obtain help from the banks then why have they not just got their parent company to take the fall?

Because the parent company and all of the parent companies assets go with it.

 

In football terms if people such as Bates who have spent **** loads of money on the best lawyers he can get can't find loopholes like that then how could Lowe?

As Exit has mentioned other clubs have had other companies such as Leeds and they got deductions because of it.

How is our case any different?

 

So f you want to throw some insults around and act as a 2 year old then send them via PM to me and were deal with it there. I don't think the rest of the forum want to see childish slanging matches especially today.

 

On the face of it, this does look like a pretty narrow and dubious loophole, but I don't speak as a business analyst or sports lawyer. It just "feels" like a desperate last throw of the dice. That said, Lowe et al may have secured sound legal advice or even discussed the matter with the Football League. I wouldn't bet my life on that, but i wouldn't rule it out either.

 

I think our case can be distinguished from Leeds United's. We seem to be trying to avoid the penalty altogether, whereas Leeds deliberately took the penalty only when they were certain to be relegated. To that extent, they were only really punished once.

[hypochondriac]

I'm speaking from a business perspective. I have worked as a business analyst for over 5 years now. I have seen companies do the strangest of things to try and survive. Especially in the last year or so what with the financial meltdown and all.

 

But i don't think you need to have that experience to make a intelligent judgement/assumption on this matter.

 

If multi-billion pound companies go under due to the fact they can no longer obtain help from the banks then why have they not just got their parent company to take the fall?

Because the parent company and all of the parent companies assets go with it.

 

In football terms if people such as Bates who have spent **** loads of money on the best lawyers he can get can't find loopholes like that then how could Lowe?

As Exit has mentioned other clubs have had other companies such as Leeds and they got deductions because of it.

How is our case any different?

 

So f you want to throw some insults around and act as a 2 year old then send them via PM to me and were deal with it there. I don't think the rest of the forum want to see childish slanging matches especially today.

 

Not according the the football league...

[bridge too far]

I do know that if a subsidiary goes bust, the parent company is liable for debts incurred. But I don't know if it applies the other way around.

[exit2]

I'm speaking from a business perspective. I have worked as a business analyst for over 5 years now. I have seen companies do the strangest of things to try and survive. Especially in the last year or so what with the financial meltdown and all.

 

But i don't think you need to have that experience to make a intelligent judgement/assumption on this matter.

 

If multi-billion pound companies go under due to the fact they can no longer obtain help from the banks then why have they not just got their parent company to take the fall?

Because the parent company and all of the parent companies assets go with it.

 

In football terms if people such as Bates who have spent **** loads of money on the best lawyers he can get can't find loopholes like that then how could Lowe?

As Exit has mentioned other clubs have had other companies such as Leeds and they got deductions because of it.

How is our case any different?

 

So f you want to throw some insults around and act as a 2 year old then send them via PM to me and were deal with it there. I don't think the rest of the forum want to see childish slanging matches especially today.

 

is just means that every football club in the ****e will now form a parent company and subsiduries inside it.

Just imagine if AFC Bournemouth had made a parent company a few years ago and Luton too

 

Bournemouth Leisure Holdings

Bournemouth Football Club Limited

Bournemouth Retail Limited

 

Luton Leisure Holding

etc etc

 

This will not happen, Im sure the FL has seen this loophole, and before anyone says anything he has **** all do with being on the LSE

[Topcat]

BBC South said tune into Radio Solent for details . I did. Julian Clegg talked about the strange things that people have found and about G20 protests!

 

WTF is that about? What is local about his show? Local Club near death and Clegg is wittering about finding 2p on the pavement and G20. Finally we get Merrington who does not know much..... Now we have a twerp wittering on asking about what people are doing in the sun and a charade about a steam car....

[SaintBobby]

In other words, we could have Lowe to thank for not being hit with a points penalty which could ultimately save us from relegation to League One?

 

I'm no Luvvie, but there would be a delicious irony if this is true. And no last laugh for Rupes as his shares will be worth sod all.

[St Columb Saint]

I maybe being a bit thick (waits for insults) but if the parent company (SLH) sells the subsidiary (SFC) then SLH takes administration, SFC no longer has any ties to the original parent company so avoids any deduction.

[Window Cleaner]

I do know that if a subsidiary goes bust, the parent company is liable for debts incurred. But I don't know if it applies the other way around.

 

It was rumoured some time back that Rupert was seen coming out of Hextalls,

who have a specialist sports insolvency practitioner.Perhaps football league rules haven't been updated to the latest brilliant wheezes by high flying kick ass fijudicial practitioners. Don't forget OJ got off first time on a technicality that nobody had even thought of.

[hypochondriac]

is just means that every football club in the ****e will now form a parent company and subsiduries inside it.

Just imagine if AFC Bournemouth had made a parent company a few years ago and Luton too

 

Bournemouth Leisure Holdings

Bournemouth Football Club Limited

Bournemouth Retail Limited

 

Luton Leisure Holding

etc etc

 

This will not happen, Im sure the FL has seen this loophole, and before anyone says anything he has **** all do with being on the LSE

 

Then why does a spokesman say it will happen?

[Morph]

Sorry 19C - I am not that much in the loop - guess if its true we will find out soon enough. I heard last week we had been rescued by a father and son combo but it looks that what they offered has not been good enough. Again I must stress I am not in the loop but just hearing this from those that are. Could be a massive joke but I for one would not think it is funny.

 

Duncan,

 

You have mail.

 

Regards

 

Morph

[Gemmel]

I'm speaking from a business perspective. I have worked as a business analyst for over 5 years now. I have seen companies do the strangest of things to try and survive. Especially in the last year or so what with the financial meltdown and all.

 

But i don't think you need to have that experience to make a intelligent judgement/assumption on this matter.

 

If multi-billion pound companies go under due to the fact they can no longer obtain help from the banks then why have they not just got their parent company to take the fall?

Because the parent company and all of the parent companies assets go with it.

 

In football terms if people such as Bates who have spent **** loads of money on the best lawyers he can get can't find loopholes like that then how could Lowe?

As Exit has mentioned other clubs have had other companies such as Leeds and they got deductions because of it.

How is our case any different?

 

So f you want to throw some insults around and act as a 2 year old then send them via PM to me and were deal with it there. I don't think the rest of the forum want to see childish slanging matches especially today.

 

 

I won't make any comments on business analysts

 

But firstly, whilst Leeds did get a points deduction, to suggest he didnt find any loopholes to exploit in the taking over and keeping hold of Leeds post administration is wrong....see the threads from yesterday.

 

With regard to our situation, i'm sure each case is different, but the FA rules are largely to do with Footballing debts. The CVA requirement covers all others, but in effect, if SLH sell the club (Which is one of their assets) and the new owners take on the footballing debts, the club is no longer anything to do with SLH, so when or if the old company goes into administration, it ceases to have anything to do with the club. ....... I'm not saying that's right, but that's how it seems.

 

Now you have to assume that includes the overdraft, otherwise, BArclays would be shooting themselves in the foot (Unless this is lowe playing russian roulette and saying back me one more time or you'll lose the lot)

 

Basically we won't know anymore details until after todays board meeting, but if the FA have confirmed no points deduction, i'm happy with that.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but I'd like to thank Duncan for letting us have the (sad) news ahead of anyone else and for doing it in a sensible and straightforward way.

 

Thanks for that - I must admit to being nervous starting this thread last night, in case it was wrong, but my view is and always will be there is no point having this forum unless we are prepared to share as much as we can with each other. At the end of the day it seems we, the fans are always the last to know but the first to be asked to put our hands in our pockets.

[trousers]

Duncan,

 

You have mail.

 

Regards

 

Morph

 

Tease

[Window Cleaner]

Hearing tonight from more than one source there is going to be major (but unfortunately negative) developments tomorrow, starting with an announcement at 7AM re the shares.

 

There are some last gasp negotiations going on which have been circulating for several days but it seems hopes are now fading and it could be administration by this time tomorrow. Hope I am wrong but I would not post this without being reasonably certain of the facts.

 

 

But we're not actually in administration yet, is that right?

Haven't time to trawl through 5000 posts because I'm supposed to be working.

[St Marco]

Thanks for that - I must admit to being nervous starting this thread last night, in case it was wrong, but my view is and always will be there is no point having this forum unless we are prepared to share as much as we can with each other. At the end of the day it seems we, the fans are always the last to know but the first to be asked to put our hands in our pockets.

 

Yeah well done FF

 

Nice to know that some of the fans are prepared to let the rest of us know what is happening behind the scenes. Think this thread will be in the golden posts for sure. Defining point in our clubs history broken to the fans by you.

 

A day that will live in infamy and all that

[Charlie Wayman]

The one good thing to come out of all this is that ST holders wee not lured into buying tickets for next season before the announcement. Had they paid up they would have lost all.

[OldNick]

The one good thing to come out of all this is that ST holders wee not lured into buying tickets for next season before the announcement. Had they paid up they would have lost all.

That is credit to the club,whatever people may think of it.

[hypochondriac]

The one good thing to come out of all this is that ST holders wee not lured into buying tickets for next season before the announcement. Had they paid up they would have lost all.

 

FFS no they wouldn't.

[Joey-deacons-left-nut]

Well, at least it's not dull being a Saints fan!!!

[SaintBobby]

That is credit to the club,whatever people may think of it.

 

Is that true?

 

The ST cash would have just disappeared down the toilet?