"Southampton dodge administration (for now)..."

[St Marco]

The thing which worries me about all this is that people are forgetting this is a gamble Lowe has taken. Speaking from a business perspective point of view i would say it is a massive risk to the future of the company.

It is like the chips are all down and only way you win is if you avoid the drop.

Now the bookies don't have us faring so well as they all have us 2nd favs down. So we will have to proove everybody wrong and win enough points to keep us up which in turn will keep us out of admin.

 

However if the critics and bookies are right and we sadly fail to stay up then we are most likely into admin. If we are on the brink of it now and we then go down we will cut out a vast amount of our revenue from tv rights and exposure. The FL rights were bought by Sky for £264m. From next season Sky will show 65 live CCC games and BBC will show 10. Meaning next season the CCC will have almost as many prem games being broadcast live. That brings more revenue as the exposure increases. £264m for 3 years = 88m a year in tv revenue. That is a vast amount of money. Which means every club in the CCC gets nearly £4m a year just from tv money.

The League 1 teams get just 12% of the deal. Which means each club gets just over 500k a season. If that happens to Saints they will be nearly £3m out of pocket by dropping a league. Without investment the club would not be able to run due to the interest of the £20m+ debt being more then the revenue the club makes. Which means admin almost certainly.

 

Now i'm glad the club has avoided going into admin, it gives us a chance to sort the problems out without having to go to the courts, means we can sort it out on the pitch. Which is the way it should be.

 

But if we do go down and we do then go into admin we then risk dropping to league 2 because of this decision. We will go into the league one campaign with fewer players and with less quality players. We won't have the money to pay wages for Journey men to help get us out of it ala Leicester style. But worse of all we will go into it with a points deduction. Meaning if this back fires then we will probably be spending next season trying to stop another relegation. A bit like Bournmouth.

If that happens then we will come back to this point. A point where it was decided to go for it and risk the next few years.

 

The way i see it i see it as Lowes last stand if you will. I don't like the guy but i respect a lot of things he has done for the club in the past. But if he put the club into admin people would crucify him for it because that means relegation for sure. It would mean he would be gone as he would be removed by the court. It would effectively be him and his board throwing in the towel.

Lowe will not let go of power until the empire has fully crumbled. So while i think the board deserve good words for not going into admin and condemning us down, i also think people need to realise that chances are it would not happen unless the banks made that decision for us by stopping our overdraft.

So for all our sakes i hope the boys play out of their skin and get the wins we need to survive. Anything less and things will get even worse before they get better.

At the end of the day this club needs money, we need investment. Without that things will always be hard.

[alpine_saint]

The thing which worries me about all this is that people are forgetting this is a gamble Lowe has taken. Speaking from a business perspective point of view i would say it is a massive risk to the future of the company.

It is like the chips are all down and only way you win is if you avoid the drop.

Now the bookies don't have us faring so well as they all have us 2nd favs down. So we will have to proove everybody wrong and win enough points to keep us up which in turn will keep us out of admin.

 

However if the critics and bookies are right and we sadly fail to stay up then we are most likely into admin. If we are on the brink of it now and we then go down we will cut out a vast amount of our revenue from tv rights and exposure. The FL rights were bought by Sky for £264m. From next season Sky will show 65 live CCC games and BBC will show 10. Meaning next season the CCC will have almost as many prem games being broadcast live. That brings more revenue as the exposure increases. £264m for 3 years = 88m a year in tv revenue. That is a vast amount of money. Which means every club in the CCC gets nearly £4m a year just from tv money.

The League 1 teams get just 12% of the deal. Which means each club gets just over 500k a season. If that happens to Saints they will be nearly £3m out of pocket by dropping a league. Without investment the club would not be able to run due to the interest of the £20m+ debt being more then the revenue the club makes. Which means admin almost certainly.

 

Now i'm glad the club has avoided going into admin, it gives us a chance to sort the problems out without having to go to the courts, means we can sort it out on the pitch. Which is the way it should be.

 

But if we do go down and we do then go into admin we then risk dropping to league 2 because of this decision. We will go into the league one campaign with fewer players and with less quality players. We won't have the money to pay wages for Journey men to help get us out of it ala Leicester style. But worse of all we will go into it with a points deduction. Meaning if this back fires then we will probably be spending next season trying to stop another relegation. A bit like Bournmouth.

If that happens then we will come back to this point. A point where it was decided to go for it and risk the next few years.

 

The way i see it i see it as Lowes last stand if you will. I don't like the guy but i respect a lot of things he has done for the club in the past. But if he put the club into admin people would crucify him for it because that means relegation for sure. It would mean he would be gone as he would be removed by the court. It would effectively be him and his board throwing in the towel.

Lowe will not let go of power until the empire has fully crumbled. So while i think the board deserve good words for not going into admin and condemning us down, i also think people need to realise that chances are it would not happen unless the banks made that decision for us by stopping our overdraft.

So for all our sakes i hope the boys play out of their skin and get the wins we need to survive. Anything less and things will get even worse before they get better.

At the end of the day this club needs money, we need investment. Without that things will always be hard.

 

I agree with all this, but you'd be amazed the amount of people on here and elsewhere that simply refuse to believe the evidence of their own eyes in the name of being "positive" and "getting behind the lads, FFS"...

 

[70's Mike]

I agree with all this, but you'd be amazed the amount of people on here and elsewhere that simply refuse to believe the evidence of their own eyes in the name of being "positive" and "getting behind the lads, FFS"...

 

 

 

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

 

i have joined every protest to get rid of him but refuse to let him drive me away from MY TEAM, for 90 mins every game i will get behind the lads , rest of the time as my posts show i will constantly oppose lowe and his gang

[CB Fry]

The thing which worries me about all this is that people are forgetting this is a gamble Lowe has taken. Speaking from a business perspective point of view i would say it is a massive risk to the future of the company.

It is like the chips are all down and only way you win is if you avoid the drop.

Now the bookies don't have us faring so well as they all have us 2nd favs down. So we will have to proove everybody wrong and win enough points to keep us up which in turn will keep us out of admin.

 

However if the critics and bookies are right and we sadly fail to stay up then we are most likely into admin. If we are on the brink of it now and we then go down we will cut out a vast amount of our revenue from tv rights and exposure. The FL rights were bought by Sky for £264m. From next season Sky will show 65 live CCC games and BBC will show 10. Meaning next season the CCC will have almost as many prem games being broadcast live. That brings more revenue as the exposure increases. £264m for 3 years = 88m a year in tv revenue. That is a vast amount of money. Which means every club in the CCC gets nearly £4m a year just from tv money.

The League 1 teams get just 12% of the deal. Which means each club gets just over 500k a season. If that happens to Saints they will be nearly £3m out of pocket by dropping a league. Without investment the club would not be able to run due to the interest of the £20m+ debt being more then the revenue the club makes. Which means admin almost certainly.

 

Now i'm glad the club has avoided going into admin, it gives us a chance to sort the problems out without having to go to the courts, means we can sort it out on the pitch. Which is the way it should be.

 

But if we do go down and we do then go into admin we then risk dropping to league 2 because of this decision. We will go into the league one campaign with fewer players and with less quality players. We won't have the money to pay wages for Journey men to help get us out of it ala Leicester style. But worse of all we will go into it with a points deduction. Meaning if this back fires then we will probably be spending next season trying to stop another relegation. A bit like Bournmouth.

If that happens then we will come back to this point. A point where it was decided to go for it and risk the next few years.

 

The way i see it i see it as Lowes last stand if you will. I don't like the guy but i respect a lot of things he has done for the club in the past. But if he put the club into admin people would crucify him for it because that means relegation for sure. It would mean he would be gone as he would be removed by the court. It would effectively be him and his board throwing in the towel.

Lowe will not let go of power until the empire has fully crumbled. So while i think the board deserve good words for not going into admin and condemning us down, i also think people need to realise that chances are it would not happen unless the banks made that decision for us by stopping our overdraft.

So for all our sakes i hope the boys play out of their skin and get the wins we need to survive. Anything less and things will get even worse before they get better.

At the end of the day this club needs money, we need investment. Without that things will always be hard.

 

 

Agree with this in general.

 

But although Leicester have spend a lot of money keeping hold of their CCC standard players - they probably have a better squad than us, Blackpool, Forest, Norwich and others - they haven't used that many "journeymen". As a squad/team they are pretty young actually.

 

And okay, the L2 doom scenario is possible but I still think unlikely.

 

L1 will probably mean yet another new start, but I think more players than we think will stay, and the likes of Gillet are L1 standard, easy.

 

We just (!!!) need to appoint a half way decent manager to get us organised and we should finish top eight, which to be fair all our equivalents (Man City, SWFC, Forest, Leeds) have done. And let's not pretend that any of those clubs got relegated and had some miracle "fresh start" or had it any easier than we will. Those clubs were decimated on relegation.

 

 

It's boring, but very likely. I've been saying that the boring thing will happen for the last eighteen months when those people screaming "we're defitely going into admin TOMORROW!!!!!".

 

It isn't going to be that exciting.

 

Relegated, yes, and then a reasonable slog in a rubbish league next season where we flirt with the playoffs. Boring, but chances are that is what will happen.

[um pahars]

As an FYI it was posted on here a few times before that the Stadium is on a fixed rate.

 

But as you point out, IMHO nothing is ever as black and white as we try and paint it here and I'm sure people are burning up the midnight oil trying to keep us going and finding rabbits to pull out of hats.

 

I'd be amazed if that 8.35% rate hadn't been renegotiated or parked/deferred.

 

 

 

 

As for St Marco and C B Fry's comments, then my view is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

I think that if we go down (and BTW my money is that we won't!!) I don't think it will be total meltdown and the 4th division, but I think it will be very messy.

 

My only issue after we go down is whether administration is inevitable or not???

 

Because if we do go into administration and receive a serious points deduction and also take part in a firesale of players and assets, then it somewhat changes the scenario.

Edited 27 March, 2009 by um pahars

[trousers]

The thing which worries me about all this is that people are forgetting this is a gamble Lowe has taken. Speaking from a business perspective point of view i would say it is a massive risk to the future of the company.

It is like the chips are all down and only way you win is if you avoid the drop.

Now the bookies don't have us faring so well as they all have us 2nd favs down. So we will have to proove everybody wrong and win enough points to keep us up which in turn will keep us out of admin.

 

However if the critics and bookies are right and we sadly fail to stay up then we are most likely into admin. If we are on the brink of it now and we then go down we will cut out a vast amount of our revenue from tv rights and exposure. The FL rights were bought by Sky for £264m. From next season Sky will show 65 live CCC games and BBC will show 10. Meaning next season the CCC will have almost as many prem games being broadcast live. That brings more revenue as the exposure increases. £264m for 3 years = 88m a year in tv revenue. That is a vast amount of money. Which means every club in the CCC gets nearly £4m a year just from tv money.

The League 1 teams get just 12% of the deal. Which means each club gets just over 500k a season. If that happens to Saints they will be nearly £3m out of pocket by dropping a league. Without investment the club would not be able to run due to the interest of the £20m+ debt being more then the revenue the club makes. Which means admin almost certainly.

 

Now i'm glad the club has avoided going into admin, it gives us a chance to sort the problems out without having to go to the courts, means we can sort it out on the pitch. Which is the way it should be.

 

But if we do go down and we do then go into admin we then risk dropping to league 2 because of this decision. We will go into the league one campaign with fewer players and with less quality players. We won't have the money to pay wages for Journey men to help get us out of it ala Leicester style. But worse of all we will go into it with a points deduction. Meaning if this back fires then we will probably be spending next season trying to stop another relegation. A bit like Bournmouth.

If that happens then we will come back to this point. A point where it was decided to go for it and risk the next few years.

 

The way i see it i see it as Lowes last stand if you will. I don't like the guy but i respect a lot of things he has done for the club in the past. But if he put the club into admin people would crucify him for it because that means relegation for sure. It would mean he would be gone as he would be removed by the court. It would effectively be him and his board throwing in the towel.

Lowe will not let go of power until the empire has fully crumbled. So while i think the board deserve good words for not going into admin and condemning us down, i also think people need to realise that chances are it would not happen unless the banks made that decision for us by stopping our overdraft.

So for all our sakes i hope the boys play out of their skin and get the wins we need to survive. Anything less and things will get even worse before they get better.

At the end of the day this club needs money, we need investment. Without that things will always be hard.

 

So, given that we'll be shaagged financially one way or another if/when we go down, wouldn't the 'best' thing to do now be to blow caution to the wind and recall all of our 'expensive' players and spend the money and be damned?

 

What is there to lose?

 

Either:

 

(a) We stay up and use some of the new £4m TV money to pay back the extra we spent on the experiences players for the last 7 games

 

or

 

(b) We still end up being relegated but the money's gone so who cares?

[aintforever]

There is no way the club could avoid administration if we go down, it appears they are on the verge now, remove half the gate receipts & sponsorship, plus 90% of the TV money the club wont stand a chance, wont even be close.

 

The combination of the credit cruch and Lowe will probably see the club in financial trouble even if we stay up.

[SaintRobbie]

The thing which worries me about all this is that people are forgetting this is a gamble Lowe has taken. Speaking from a business perspective point of view i would say it is a massive risk to the future of the company.

It is like the chips are all down and only way you win is if you avoid the drop.

Now the bookies don't have us faring so well as they all have us 2nd favs down. So we will have to proove everybody wrong and win enough points to keep us up which in turn will keep us out of admin.

 

However if the critics and bookies are right and we sadly fail to stay up then we are most likely into admin. If we are on the brink of it now and we then go down we will cut out a vast amount of our revenue from tv rights and exposure. The FL rights were bought by Sky for £264m. From next season Sky will show 65 live CCC games and BBC will show 10. Meaning next season the CCC will have almost as many prem games being broadcast live. That brings more revenue as the exposure increases. £264m for 3 years = 88m a year in tv revenue. That is a vast amount of money. Which means every club in the CCC gets nearly £4m a year just from tv money.

The League 1 teams get just 12% of the deal. Which means each club gets just over 500k a season. If that happens to Saints they will be nearly £3m out of pocket by dropping a league. Without investment the club would not be able to run due to the interest of the £20m+ debt being more then the revenue the club makes. Which means admin almost certainly.

 

Now i'm glad the club has avoided going into admin, it gives us a chance to sort the problems out without having to go to the courts, means we can sort it out on the pitch. Which is the way it should be.

 

But if we do go down and we do then go into admin we then risk dropping to league 2 because of this decision. We will go into the league one campaign with fewer players and with less quality players. We won't have the money to pay wages for Journey men to help get us out of it ala Leicester style. But worse of all we will go into it with a points deduction. Meaning if this back fires then we will probably be spending next season trying to stop another relegation. A bit like Bournmouth.

If that happens then we will come back to this point. A point where it was decided to go for it and risk the next few years.

 

The way i see it i see it as Lowes last stand if you will. I don't like the guy but i respect a lot of things he has done for the club in the past. But if he put the club into admin people would crucify him for it because that means relegation for sure. It would mean he would be gone as he would be removed by the court. It would effectively be him and his board throwing in the towel.

Lowe will not let go of power until the empire has fully crumbled. So while i think the board deserve good words for not going into admin and condemning us down, i also think people need to realise that chances are it would not happen unless the banks made that decision for us by stopping our overdraft.

So for all our sakes i hope the boys play out of their skin and get the wins we need to survive. Anything less and things will get even worse before they get better.

At the end of the day this club needs money, we need investment. Without that things will always be hard.

 

Agree with all of that to be honest. But would add to the last line that we havent got a cat in hells chance of investment whilst Lowe is associated with the club. Mary Corbett has already stated as much and frankly given his record I fully concur with her assessment.

[benjii]

What would happen if SLH sold Southampton FC, the stadium etc to a 'newly established' business for a nominal fee, for example, Southampton Duck Holding or something like that, that all the shareholders create (with the same holdings as before). Would Lowe be done for allowing a company go into liquidation with no assets?

 

I'm not sure what the exact struture of our debt is, but if the lenders didn't have something preventing the group from disposing of its main asset in the facility documents / Note conditions then they were astonishingly inept.

 

Also, the transaction would subsequently be unwound by the liquidators of the PLC. It would be a hell of a mess.

[Viking Warrior]

St Robbie

 

To a point I accept your argument. but surely your being too simplistic to blame the PLC

for all our ills.

Just supposing the PLC didnt happen all those years ago . do you really believe we would

have moved from the Dell/ I don't think so. Revenues would be very tight on 15k of fans. we would certainly have been relegated from the premiership long before it actually happened. Its possible another sugar daddy would have come along and would have wanted some form of PLC infrastructure.

 

As for the dividends that were given Well I have a couple of thousand shares. The first lot I bought were at £1.45. I purchased them not to make money but because I wanted

to own a peice of the club I support and will always support. The 2nd lot was due to the share issue. I have not cashed in the dividends i recieved some while back.

 

Now lets look at the big players in the shares. They were hooveriing up vast amount of shares a couple of years ago. They have lost an absolute fortune. So clearly they were not in it to make a fortune especially as the shares are now worth 12p

 

So St robbie. if you are going to do justice to your argument then look at the whole picture and not the bits that portray shareholders as scavengers or vultures.

 

If I wanted to make money I would have put it into a blue chip company not SLH

[um pahars]

Just supposing the PLC didnt happen all those years ago . do you really believe we would

have moved from the Dell/ I don't think so.

 

The driving force behind the move from The Dell was not the move to being a PLC, but instead it was the influx of massive wonga from TV (primarily SKY).

 

(The SKY deal alone was worth 40m per season to the Premier League when Lowe came in, 170m 12 mths later rising to 340m a year the season we went down).

 

If I wanted to make money I would have put it into a blue chip company not SLH

 

As you have demonstrated with your own reasons for owning shares, every shareholder has different motives for "investing", but there is also an argument that for his relatively small investment, Lowe has netted a rather handsome return with the millions he has been paid over the years.

[SaintRobbie]

St Robbie

 

To a point I accept your argument. but surely your being too simplistic to blame the PLC

for all our ills.

Just supposing the PLC didnt happen all those years ago . do you really believe we would

have moved from the Dell/ I don't think so. Revenues would be very tight on 15k of fans. we would certainly have been relegated from the premiership long before it actually happened. Its possible another sugar daddy would have come along and would have wanted some form of PLC infrastructure.

 

As for the dividends that were given Well I have a couple of thousand shares. The first lot I bought were at £1.45. I purchased them not to make money but because I wanted

to own a peice of the club I support and will always support. The 2nd lot was due to the share issue. I have not cashed in the dividends i recieved some while back.

 

Now lets look at the big players in the shares. They were hooveriing up vast amount of shares a couple of years ago. They have lost an absolute fortune. So clearly they were not in it to make a fortune especially as the shares are now worth 12p

 

So St robbie. if you are going to do justice to your argument then look at the whole picture and not the bits that portray shareholders as scavengers or vultures.

 

If I wanted to make money I would have put it into a blue chip company not SLH

 

Sorry - I thought I'd done that. In fact I have stated that plc's can work if run by the right people and also that it served a useful purpose early on in contributing to infrastructure rebuilding.

 

I fully accept there are other reasons - but there has only been one consistent factor in the demise of finances and league position which is undeniable - the fact we are a plc. More than just coincidence? Dont forget we have been slipping down in good times financially AND bad with different leadership and not just Lowe at the helm over a dozen years. Again - what has been consistent in our fall through good times and bad? PLC. Time's up for it - time to run a club properly as a football first organisation - that is the reason Sheffield Utd has ditched it.

Edited 28 March, 2009 by SaintRobbie

[The9]

What else has been consistent?

 

Playing football

Wearing red and White stripes

Being based in Southampton

Having people watch matches

Occasionally being on tv

Having a Club Physio

Players wearing football boots

 

Why aren't you blaming any of those "factors" ? You can't just say "it's this", we were crap sometimes and good sometimes before the PLC and we'll probably do the same afterwards.

 

It does make me laugh that you seem to think we made any money from 1978-1995 that would somehow benefit us now, that money simply wasn't around football until the Prem was formed in '92 and even the first tv deal wasn't all that lucrative compared to those since.

[SaintRobbie]

What else has been consistent?

 

Playing football

Wearing red and White stripes

Being based in Southampton

Having people watch matches

Occasionally being on tv

Having a Club Physio

Players wearing football boots

 

Why aren't you blaming any of those "factors" ? You can't just say "it's this", we were crap sometimes and good sometimes before the PLC and we'll probably do the same afterwards.

 

It does make me laugh that you seem to think we made any money from 1978-1995 that would somehow benefit us now, that money simply wasn't around football until the Prem was formed in '92 and even the first tv deal wasn't all that lucrative compared to those since.

 

Not sure that changing the colour of our shirts has anything to do with the leadership and decisionmaking of those who have run the club down the toilet mate.

 

As for the second para I'm afraid I simply have not said that. But what I will say is we were a 1st Division side throughout that period and not a relegation facing CCC one with lower League 1 standard players. We're about to see our club in the lowest position for 49 years. There is a reason for that. It is the fact that we are a disunified, badly run PLC, whose priorities have gradually switched from footballing success to business consolidation.

 

Yes Man Utd is a plc - but it is not badly run, it has always been football focussed as a priority for that success. PLCs can work. Our has not and will never work. It must be removed along with those who have crafted the results over the last few years, we must actively seak a buyer instead of sitting on our backsides and just hoping and we can then think about returning to where we should be.

[CB Fry]

Not sure that changing the colour of our shirts has anything to do with the leadership and decisionmaking of those who have run the club down the toilet mate.

 

As for the second para I'm afraid I simply have not said that. But what I will say is we were a 1st Division side throughout that period and not a relegation facing CCC one with lower League 1 standard players. We're about to see our club in the lowest position for 49 years. There is a reason for that. It is the fact that we are a disunified, badly run PLC, whose priorities have gradually switched from footballing success to business consolidation.

 

Yes Man Utd is a plc - but it is not badly run, it has always been football focussed as a priority for that success. PLCs can work. Our has not and will never work. It must be removed along with those who have crafted the results over the last few years, we must actively seak a buyer instead of sitting on our backsides and just hoping and we can then think about returning to where we should be.

 

 

Sorry, this is utter rubbish. Our PLC did "work", and "work" fantastically well up until the end of Sturrock's close season.

 

In the five seasons before we became a PLC we got through an average of a manager a season, and we were in last-week relegation scrapes in four of the five seasons and the only time we had a successful manager he scooted off at the first opportunity. Oh, and we sold all our best players, except the one who didn't want to go. Oh, and that one player we were lucky to have was the only reason we did stay up during that time.

 

You seem to think it was the magical power of not-being-a-PLC that kept us up.

 

Stop talking rubbish. PLCs work, and they worked for us, quite brilliantly.

 

 

 

We're up **** street now, but its not "because we are a PLC". Grow up.

[St Paul]

Sorry, this is utter rubbish. Our PLC did "work", and "work" fantastically well up until the end of Sturrock's close season.

 

In the five seasons before we became a PLC we got through an average of a manager a season, and we were in last-week relegation scrapes in four of the five seasons and the only time we had a successful manager he scooted off at the first opportunity. Oh, and we sold all our best players, except the one who didn't want to go. Oh, and that one player we were lucky to have was the only reason we did stay up during that time.

 

You seem to think it was the magical power of not-being-a-PLC that kept us up.

 

Stop talking rubbish. PLCs work, and they worked for us, quite brilliantly.

 

 

 

We're up **** street now, but its not "because we are a PLC". Grow up.

 

You seem to want it both ways. If the PLC "worked" up to relegation, then surely, not being a PLC "worked" for all the years before that.

 

PLC's can work in football, however has another Club taken the "reverse takeover" route and has another small shareholder welded some much power at any other Club?

 

The problem is not PLC's in football, but our particular PLC. Had we been set up the same as most PLC's rather than a reverse takeover by a retirement home specialist, then things would have been different, in my opinion.

[70's Mike]

Sorry, this is utter rubbish. Our PLC did "work", and "work" fantastically well up until the end of Sturrock's close season.

 

In the five seasons before we became a PLC we got through an average of a manager a season, and we were in last-week relegation scrapes in four of the five seasons and the only time we had a successful manager he scooted off at the first opportunity. Oh, and we sold all our best players, except the one who didn't want to go. Oh, and that one player we were lucky to have was the only reason we did stay up during that time.

 

You seem to think it was the magical power of not-being-a-PLC that kept us up.

 

Stop talking rubbish. PLCs work, and they worked for us, quite brilliantly.

 

 

 

We're up **** street now, but its not "because we are a PLC". Grow up.

 

makes change difficult , as i understand it no other football club has such a diverse shareownership

[Professor]

Oh dear, Oh dear. Someone's not taking their tablets......

[CB Fry]

You seem to want it both ways. If the PLC "worked" up to relegation, then surely, not being a PLC "worked" for all the years before that.

 

PLC's can work in football, however has another Club taken the "reverse takeover" route and has another small shareholder welded some much power at any other Club?

 

The problem is not PLC's in football, but our particular PLC. Had we been set up the same as most PLC's rather than a reverse takeover by a retirement home specialist, then things would have been different, in my opinion.

 

 

How is that having it both ways.?

 

Where exactly do I say not being a PLC before "didn't work"?

 

My reponse is pointed at the likes of SaintRobbie who love to trot out the line that "it all went wrong the day we became a PLC" when, clearly, rationally, obviously, it didn't.

 

Things getting better than they were for the five years immediately preceeding the change is clearly not "all going wrong" is it.

 

Being that we had a very good run in the prem, and a trip to wembley and a fleeting trip into Europe and a new stadium following 1997, the kind of acheivements lots of other clubs could only dream of, its difficult for anyone to suggest how anything could have been better had something different happened in 1997. It's too long ago.

 

How much better have these clubs faired than us since 1997?

 

Leicester

Coventry

Derby County

Forest

Sheff United

Sheff Wedsnesday

QPR

Luton

Norwich

Ipswich

Wolves

WBA

 

etc etc. If our history had taken a completely different turn in 1997 none of you has any idea of how much better we'd have done.

 

We could well have been relegated in 1998, just like we very nearly were in four of the five preceeding seasons.

 

 

And my point is, just before the kneejerkers get all excited is NOT how fantastic Rupert is, but AND READ THIS, PLEASE, is 1997 is far too long ago for anyone to confidently predict we'd being doing any better than Forest, Derby, Leicester, Coventry and countless other clubs have done in the last decade.

 

We just don't know. Plenty of other clubs have successfully got themselves nowhere without Rupert's help.

Edited 29 March, 2009 by CB Fry