Pancake Posted 25 March, 2009 Share Posted 25 March, 2009 Briatore: Brawn (and Toyota & Williams) car is illegal Mosley (plus the manufacturers: No its not Briatore (plus the other manufactures): A complaint will be lodged on Thursday. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7962869.stm F1 is nothing if not fun this pre-season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 25 March, 2009 Share Posted 25 March, 2009 see, this is what happens when you constantly mess about with laws and regulations. The right arm never knows what the rest of the body is doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 25 March, 2009 Share Posted 25 March, 2009 Or it's a cynical attempt by some PR person to whip-up a furore about the forthcoming F1 season. Because actually no gives a **** because it's boring and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 25 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 March, 2009 Or it's a cynical attempt by some PR person to whip-up a furore about the forthcoming F1 season. Because actually no gives a **** because it's boring and predictable. :smt017 Ah, I forgot, you're a biker boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 25 March, 2009 Share Posted 25 March, 2009 Or it's a cynical attempt by some PR person to whip-up a furore about the forthcoming F1 season. Because actually no gives a **** because it's boring and predictable. I guess the 13.1m people in the UK alone who watched the season finale, were just waiting for Corrie to come on then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 25 March, 2009 Share Posted 25 March, 2009 (edited) Ferrari and their chums are upset because somebody else has found a glitch in the regulations that they had missed, so now they are crying to 'sir'. Edited 25 March, 2009 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 25 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 March, 2009 Ferrari and their chums are upset because somebody else has found a glitch in the regulations that they had missed, so now they are crying to 'sir'. Errr.... Bernie and Max seem to be on the side of Brawn et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 25 March, 2009 Share Posted 25 March, 2009 Errr.... Bernie and Max seem to be on the side of Brawn et al. Hmmm, do they though? If that were the case they would have made a statement that the diffuser was legal, end of story. They haven't done that, in fact they (the FIA) have said that it's too late to do anything before the first race, in order to clarify it, so the only course of action is for the stewards to deal with it in Melbourne. They added that in their non-expert opinion it looks ok, but from history we know that means jack sh**. I'd suggest it's more of an attempt to destabilise the FOTA agreement, which is very strongly united against both the FIA and FOM at the moment. A bit of infighting and snitching between the teams is exactly what Max and Bernie need to push through their ridiculous budget caps and points systems for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 25 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 March, 2009 Hmmm, do they though? Sorry Ponts, I was just going by what the BBC article ORIGINALLY said, it quoted Briatore and Mosley on opposite sides. I see they have now changed the article and removed the quotes from Flav and Max and replaced it with some dude form Ferrari! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 26 March, 2009 Share Posted 26 March, 2009 Protest rejected. I expect an imminent appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 The lack of clarity over the legality is worrying, but even more worrying is the automatic reaction to cry foul rather then congratulating/respecting the engineers of those respective teams for the inginuity they have shown. I'm delighted they have been cleared to race and hope any further appeals are also rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Not an F1 person but what I don't get is...... why are they all moaning about the diffuser when they could've done something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 (edited) Not an F1 person but what I don't get is...... why are they all moaning about the diffuser when they could've done something similar? Oh, they could have but didn't interperet the regulations as allowing this. The repurcussions of this are quite severe as of some cars are not suited to using similar diffusers. Red Bull/Toro Rosso I believe simply cannot adapt them due to the packaging of their gearbox. I think Renault (well, Flavio Briatore) are contesting this as it is not within the 'spirit' of the rules, which as an arguement goes is very weak. And as Ponty mentioned there are some rather serious political issues brewing in the background, this may be a symptom of these. Here is an excellent graphic that was posted on the planet f1 forum detailing the precise issue. I believe that the regulations state that no part of the car that is visable from underneath should be above 175mm from the chassis floor. Brawn, Williams and Toyota have dodged this by effectively having a double decker diffuser arrangement which is, frankly a fantastic display of latteral thinking! Bravo to them. Edited 27 March, 2009 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 27 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Not an F1 person but what I don't get is...... why are they all moaning about the diffuser when they could've done something similar? Im lead to believe that other teams did produce designs of a similar nature but were informed that they would not pass. Red Bull, it seems, cant fit a Brawn style diffuser due to the set up of their rear suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Ahh cheers I get ya. I like watching F1 but don't really know much about the politics that seem to go hand in hand with it! So.... are they stuck with the cars for the season now then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Ahh cheers I get ya. I like watching F1 but don't really know much about the politics that seem to go hand in hand with it! So.... are they stuck with the cars for the season now then? The engineers are free to redesign as budgets and regulations allow. The diffuser however is a fundamental part of the car's aerodynamic 'package.' A full redesign may be the only solution for some teams to take advantage of this, but that may be unrealistic. Some teams therefore may have their performance ruined by this, more then likely the teams that are protesting most loudly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Im lead to believe that other teams did produce designs of a similar nature but were informed that they would not pass. Red Bull, it seems, cant fit a Brawn style diffuser due to the set up of their rear suspension. Yep, it's in the public domain now. Plans were submitted for a diffuser in the style of the Willies one back in August and Charlie Whiting said it was illegal, and informed the other teams too. Some seem to have forgotten that, some haven't, hence the protest. I don't usually like the idea of protesting against something that's not clearly a cheat but in this instance it's right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Yep, it's in the public domain now. Plans were submitted for a diffuser in the style of the Willies one back in August and Charlie Whiting said it was illegal, and informed the other teams too. Some seem to have forgotten that, some haven't, hence the protest. I don't usually like the idea of protesting against something that's not clearly a cheat but in this instance it's right to do so. Does that mean that Charlie has now changed his mind ? He was quoted last week, and again at Melbourne, as saying these diffusers were legal; "They used a loophole (in the regulations) that was always there," "Additionally, we can understand that other teams have a different view," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Also, following on from something Max Moseley said: can somebody explain how if the FIA technical experts declare something as 'legal', the race stewards can subsequently decide it isn't ?:smt017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Or it's a cynical attempt by some PR person to whip-up a furore about the forthcoming F1 season. Because actually no gives a **** because it's boring and predictable. :smt017 Ah, I forgot, you're a biker boy... Yes Pancake. For us, the motorsport season starts properly on April 12th. F1 is a sideshow to the main event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Yes Pancake. For us, the motorsport season starts properly on April 12th. F1 is a sideshow to the main event. Let me see; that's the motor sport where overtaking is possible, they don't have mandatory refuelling stops, and they don't decide the outcome of the race in the stewards' room two weeks after the finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Let me see; that's the motor sport where overtaking is possible, they don't have mandatory refuelling stops, and they don't decide the outcome of the race in the stewards' room two weeks after the finish That's the one..! I wonder if those F1 folks can guess what it is..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 27 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 27 March, 2009 That's the one..! I wonder if those F1 folks can guess what it is..? Does it involve men dressed in leather with big throbbing things between their legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 I think it must be one of the ones which has a smaller global audience, both televised and live, than F1. I don't know which of the smaller series it could be though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 27 March, 2009 Share Posted 27 March, 2009 Let me see; that's the motor sport where overtaking is possible, they don't have mandatory refuelling stops, and they don't decide the outcome of the race in the stewards' room two weeks after the finish I went go karting last week, what's April 12th got to do with anything. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 28 March, 2009 Share Posted 28 March, 2009 Does it involve men dressed in leather with big throbbing things between their legs? I think it must be one of the ones which has a smaller global audience, both televised and live, than F1. I don't know which of the smaller series it could be though. I went go karting last week, what's April 12th got to do with anything. :confused: All fellow mods and admin and not a brain cell between them..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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