The Devalued Prime Minister of a Devalued Government

[OldNick]

Oh yeah you still haven't told me where you got the info about Tony Benn taking his money out of the country yet, if it's true i'll hold my hands up and never read one of his books again.

All can recall is the furore when the wealth tax was being spoken about in the 70's. It was reported at the time as his wife was American they had put ther money in trust/transferred to the US.

Im too lazy /not good at trawling through the net for info.If it is not on the first 2 pages of Google pack in.

Another poster has shown you his avoidance of tax but of course that's ok.A man who wants to share with the workers...well your and my money anyway.

[OldNick]

To be fair, I am very tempted. This socialism lark pays really well. What's Blair earning these days - somewhere in the region of £12m?

 

Prescott managed to run 2x 4.2 litre jags even with high fuel prices and it now transpires that Jacqui Smiths expense claims total £157k in the last year.

 

So here's my plan....

I will bang on about fairness and equality, not forgetting re-distribution of wealth - I won't bother with how that wealth will be created as this doesn't matter to your average socialist. Then I will buy a red rose to wear on my jacket. I will then get pictured on some protest about something or other. Then stand for an MP.

 

Bingo!

 

Go Labour! Socialism Really Does Pay!

(There you go, I've even changed my strapline as part of my conversion)

(Oh and when I've finished my profiteering from this amazing idea, you can have a copy of "JB How I profited from Socialism and how it created wealth (for me)", signed of course)

Dont forget the Kinnocks, they had the miners lay down their jobs and get arrested to try and bring the government down so he could come to power.As soon as he didn't get to PM off he goes to high paid jobs for him his misses and daughter. Those socialiosts are like the Russian communists get rid of the people and the top and then use more excesses than there were there in the first place.

[OldNick]

I am Labour through and through but i feel very let down by this bunch of pampered idiots, the sleaze and expense account fiddles would still be happening if the Tories were in power. I just feel so helpless that the people of Britain now have two Centre right parties to choose from now and that is not democracy. As i said earlier they are just a bunch of career politicians now and as much as it pains me to say it at least Thatcher had some beliefs,( mind you still getting lashed up when she goes) It's the same here in Spain the Socialist Workers Party that govern are a carbon copy of New Labour, I don't rely on the exchange rate but i know a few people who do and it has affected them a bit.

As I say they are all a bunch of snakes.Livingston is probably the closest to keeping to his beliefs but even then...

[OldNick]

I start with this as my opening shot....

http://timesbusiness.typepad.com/money_weblog/2009/03/mps-10-most-outrageous-expense-claims.html#more

 

 

Here is a top 10 of the most claimed in staffing and office costs:

 

Gardiner, Barry (Lab) = £123,852

Malik, Mr Shahid (Lab) = £121,086

Rogerson, Dan (LD) = £116,381

Gwynne, Andrew (Lab) = £116,060

Johnson, Ms Diana R. (Lab) = £116,005

Herbert, Mr Nick (Con) = £115,984

Newmark, Mr Brooks (Con) = £115,380

Reed, Mr Jamie (Lab) = £115,160

McCarthy, Kerry (Lab) = £114,936

Clark, Paul (Lab) = £114,313

 

Hmmm.....Nick and Brooks haven't really got the hang of this expense claiming.

 

 

Here is the top 10 of car expenses claimed:

 

Anderson, Janet (Lab) = £13,851

Robertson, Mr Laurence (Con) = £12,178

O'Brien, Mr Mike (Lab) = £10,564

Sheerman, Mr Barry (Lab/Co-op) = £8,802

Hoyle, Mr Lindsay (Lab) = £8,790

Vaz, Rt Hon Keith (Lab) = £8,644

Connarty, Michael (Lab) = £8,520

Barron, Rt Hon Kevin (Lab) = £8,509

Tami, Mark (Lab) = £8,420

Cook, Frank (Lab) = £8,382

 

Naughty Laurence, he should really join his socialist comrades!!!

 

Here is the top 10 claims on rail travel.......

 

Milburn, Rt Hon Alan (Lab) = £15,785

Howarth, Rt Hon George (Lab) = £14,842

Simon, Mr Siôn (Lab) = £14,176

Kaufman, Rt Hon Sir Gerald (Lab) = £13,394

Grogan, Mr John (Lab) = £13,242

Browning, Angela (Con) = £13,169

Miliband, Rt Hon Edward (Lab) = £12,579

Gwynne, Andrew (Lab) = £12,460

Smith, Geraldine (Lab) = £12,419

Taylor, David (Lab/Co-op) = £12,210

 

Angela really hasn't got the hang of this yet.

 

Here are the top 10 spenders on air travel......

MacNeil, Mr Angus (SNP) = £30,560

Carmichael, Mr Alistair (LD) = £24,721

Joyce, Eric (Lab) = £22,689

Doran, Mr Frank (Lab) = £20,903

Thurso, John (LD) = £18,241

Sarwar, Mr Mohammad (Lab) = £17,295

Alexander, Danny (LD) = £16,516

Bruce, Rt Hon Malcolm (LD) = £16,403

Kennedy, Rt Hon Charles (LD) = £14,690

Salmond, Rt Hon Alex (SNP) = £14,441

 

Here is the top 10, based on staff members travel allowances

Sarwar, Mr Mohammad (Lab) = £4,500

Begg, Miss Anne (Lab) = £4,418

Bruce, Rt Hon Malcolm (LD) = £4,179

Robertson, Angus (SNP) = £4,119

Salmond, Rt Hon Alex (SNP) = £3,821

McKenna, Rosemary (Lab) = £3,301

Battle, Rt Hon John (Lab) = £3,180

Etherington, Bill (Lab) = £3,100

Winterton, Rt Hon Rosie (Lab) = £2,980

Roy, Mr Frank (Lab)£2,937

 

The top 10 claimants for IT (Note this doesn't include pay per view movies)

Byrne, Mr Liam (Lab) = £2,545

Blunt, Mr Crispin (Con) = £2,523

Tipping, Paddy (Lab) = £2,445

McGuire, Mrs Anne (Lab) = £1,883

Lidington, Mr David (Con) = £1,804

Follett, Barbara (Lab) = £1,788

May, Rt Hon Theresa (Con) = £1,767

Williams, Stephen (LD) = £1,739

Turner, Dr Desmond (Lab) = £1,719

Michael, Rt Hon Alun (Lab/Co-op) = £1,685

 

There seems to be a bit of a trend here. Do you want me to go on? Oh OK then, here is a list of the top 10 expense claimers in 2008:

 

 

Malik Shahid / Labour = £185,421

Byrne Liam / Labour = £178,116

Ryan Joan / Labour = £173,691

Norris Dan / Labour = £172,733

Farron Tim / Lib Dem = £172,327

Doran Frank / Labour = £171,836

MacNeil Angus / SNP = £169,971

Levitt Tom / Labour = £168,660

Salmond Alex / SNP = £166,814

Mundell David / Conservative = £166,598

 

 

I really feel David has let the side down. THis research has convinced me that Socialism really does pay

 

Go Labour! Socialism Really Does Pay so much better than Centre Right Politics!

(Don't forget, How I profited from Socialism and how it created wealth (for me) will be available from good book stores in about 10 years time)

As much as i find it amusing to to see this it is also sickening tio realise all those snouts in the trough.It really is tiome to get this all sorted.The MP's should come from the constituancy they represent and then that would cut the 2 home issue.Then a cap on the london home.If they believe in their job they should be prepared to earn it.Why should nurses and doctors ,even schoolteachers have to travel at their own cost when MP's can take a plane or train in business or first at no cost to them.

[Johnny Bognor]

I have now changed my mind. Socialism appeared to be a great money making opportunity, but I thought last night whether or not extreme left wing politics would prove to be more lucrative.

 

The more extreme, the more money to be made?

 

Then I found this......

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000014/001499.htm

 

Stalin, Castro, Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse Tug, Ho Chi Minh were all "Communists" that in real life were probably among the richest people on earth...

 

So I have had a rethink and have come up with a new slogan.

 

Go Labour! Sod Socialism because there is far more to be made from Communism!

[bungle]

As much as i find it amusing to to see this it is also sickening tio realise all those snouts in the trough.It really is tiome to get this all sorted.The MP's should come from the constituancy they represent and then that would cut the 2 home issue.Then a cap on the london home.If they believe in their job they should be prepared to earn it.Why should nurses and doctors ,even schoolteachers have to travel at their own cost when MP's can take a plane or train in business or first at no cost to them.

 

Never met anyone who had to drive somewhere for work and managed to get twice as much for petrol as they should have done - and then bragg about it constantly afterwards?

 

In case it has passed you by, MPs (note how there isn't an apostrophe) have to work in two locations. I know teachers and nurses (although not a doctor, maybe they are holier than thou) and whenever they have had to go on a training course somewhere else the travel has been paid for them. Much like in private companies - if you have to do a job in a 2nd location then you tend to get travel paid for you.

 

I suppose it is easier if you forget everything else that happens in life, though. MPs are not perfect and the expense system needs to be properly reviewed, but your silly little points don't help anything.

[OldNick]

I have now changed my mind. Socialism appeared to be a great money making opportunity, but I thought last night whether or not extreme left wing politics would prove to be more lucrative.

 

The more extreme, the more money to be made?

 

Then I found this......

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000014/001499.htm

 

Stalin, Castro, Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse Tug, Ho Chi Minh were all "Communists" that in real life were probably among the richest people on earth...

 

So I have had a rethink and have come up with a new slogan.

 

Go Labour! Sod Socialism because there is far more to be made from Communism!

Sad isnt it?

[bridge too far]

As much as i find it amusing to to see this it is also sickening tio realise all those snouts in the trough.It really is tiome to get this all sorted.The MP's should come from the constituancy they represent and then that would cut the 2 home issue.Then a cap on the london home.If they believe in their job they should be prepared to earn it.Why should nurses and doctors ,even schoolteachers have to travel at their own cost when MP's can take a plane or train in business or first at no cost to them.

 

I can't believe you're really so dense NickH. :shock:

 

I haven't got the time or inclination to see which constituencies these MPs represent but consider this:

 

MPs, whether you like it or not, DO have two places of work. Their first obligation is to their constituencies. Their second is attendance in the House of Commons.

 

If an MP represents a consituency in, say, Yorkshire, then of course his / her travel expenses will be more than an MP representing, say, Guildford. (Because it's a greater distance, in case you're having problems understanding why). Even if that MP 'came from' the constituency they represent, they'd STILL have to travel to London on at least a weekly basis. Many MPs hold their constituency surgeries on a Friday so Mon-Thurs they're in the House (and therefore have to live in London) and then travel 'home' on Friday for their surgeries and to spend time with their families at the weekend.

 

Unless, of course, you're saying that an MP should either never bother to attend consituency surgeries or alternatively never attend the HofC? You'd be the first to moan if either of those two scenarios happened.

 

Whilst I don't get paid to travel to my main place of work (my office), I do get paid if I have to travel to a different (second) place of work (my clients' offices) and also to recover hotel bills where appropriate.

 

I have never met an employer who did not pay such expenses for a worker.

[OldNick]

Never met anyone who had to drive somewhere for work and managed to get twice as much for petrol as they should have done - and then bragg about it constantly afterwards?

 

In case it has passed you by, MPs (note how there isn't an apostrophe) have to work in two locations. I know teachers and nurses (although not a doctor, maybe they are holier than thou) and whenever they have had to go on a training course somewhere else the travel has been paid for them. Much like in private companies - if you have to do a job in a 2nd location then you tend to get travel paid for you.

 

I suppose it is easier if you forget everything else that happens in life, though. MPs are not perfect and the expense system needs to be properly reviewed, but your silly little points don't help anything.

I have to pay for the fuel I use to get to my place of work out of my taxed income. Only then am I able to claim. because the MP's say their home is the start of their journey they make the claim. Yes perhaps if people work from home they may do the same. I worry when people are making excuses.Read JB's list of expenses, look at how much it costs to run each MP and it is mind boggling. If people are part of the gravy train they will defend it i suppose, the same as the bankers were allowed free rien when Brown relaxed the regulations but it is still wrong.

[OldNick]

I can't believe you're really so dense NickH. :shock:

 

I haven't got the time or inclination to see which constituencies these MPs represent but consider this:

 

MPs, whether you like it or not, DO have two places of work. Their first obligation is to their constituencies. Their second is attendance in the House of Commons.

 

If an MP represents a consituency in, say, Yorkshire, then of course his / her travel expenses will be more than an MP representing, say, Guildford. (Because it's a greater distance, in case you're having problems understanding why). Even if that MP 'came from' the constituency they represent, they'd STILL have to travel to London on at least a weekly basis. Many MPs hold their constituency surgeries on a Friday so Mon-Thurs they're in the House (and therefore have to live in London) and then travel 'home' on Friday for their surgeries and to spend time with their families at the weekend.

 

Unless, of course, you're saying that an MP should either never bother to attend consituency surgeries or alternatively never attend the HofC? You'd be the first to moan if either of those two scenarios happened.

 

Whilst I don't get paid to travel to my main place of work (my office), I do get paid if I have to travel to a different (second) place of work (my clients' offices) and also to recover hotel bills where appropriate.

 

I have never met an employer who did not pay such expenses for a worker.

If the person was elected from the constituancy then they would already have a home.I have a home and a business i dont claim for both.You are showing your true colours coming out with the insults, not very attractive at all BTF.

[bridge too far]

NickH

 

I've come to the conclusion that you subscribe to the school of thought that opines the following mantra:

 

"Say something often enough and it will become the truth"

 

[Johnny Bognor]

Sad isnt it?

 

In all seriousness, yes it is sad and is more a reflection on human nature....and it is this that ensures that socialism or communism could and never would work. It is an idealistic way of living, but in reality all of those principled politicians seem to forget for who and why they were elected.

 

The socialists amoungst us truly rejoiced in 1997 when the evil nasty right wing tories were kicked into touch. They must all be feeling really cheated when what they voted for isn't much better than what came before (from an idealogy perspective).

 

There are many on here that are clearly not represented politically as they claim to be socialist and at the same time distance themselves from the party they voted for and supported. I wonder who they will vote for at the next election........

[OldNick]

NickH

 

I've come to the conclusion that you subscribe to the school of thought that opines the following mantra:

 

"Say something often enough and it will become the truth"

 

That is fine, the truth hurts you cannot counter that GB messed up by taking the regulations away and is responsible for a lot of the mess we are in.

It also concerns me that somebody who is responsible for auditing is so understanding to these excesses, I do hope that turning blind eyes are not commonplace in the industry. Whoever has rightly shown the transgretions of the Tory, Labour,SNP's and MEP's need commending. These are the people who are doing the right thing. I bleive that as they are public servants should instantly be shown the door.

In the last 10 years the government have rode the storm and left the person who has transgressed in their job, hoping the problem will go away.

By doing so they have made us very sceptical about all of them, had they done the decent thing they would have kept a lot more respect.I myself do not think that the Jackie Smith video thing as a major problem , it may have been a mistake but considering the other problems she has had in the past i think that perhaps it had become a culture in their home(expenses that is not the videos)

[bridge too far]

If the person was elected from the constituancy then they would already have a home.I have a home and a business i dont claim for both.You are showing your true colours coming out with the insults, not very attractive at all BTF.

 

But they'd still need a second home for the major part of the week when they were attending the house!!!!!!!!! David Cameron has a house up the road from me and also has a house in West London. No doubt he claims something for one or other of them. (Although on second thoughts he's so wealthy he possibly doesn't - that way he can take the moral high ground that many couldn't afford to do).

 

Oh, rewind - just found this (in the Daily Mail of all places :shock:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-556290/MPs-expenses-list-reveals-David-Cameron-used-claim-21-000-year-pay-mortgage.html

 

Maybe they should charge for hotels when in London then. I'm sure that'll work out cheaper.

 

Remember that it was the Conservative MPs who were aghast at the idea of their party publishing their expenses and the MPs who charged for non-existent jobs for their sons / nanny expenses were Conservatives.

 

And look at this too: :shock:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1165924/Party-leaders-expenses-revealed-Gordon-Brown-claimed-124-000-David-Cameron-invoiced-149-000.html

 

It would seem it costs DC more in expenses (living, as he does, quite near London) than it does GB (who lives in Scotland).

 

You don't claim for your business because you don't live there. That's the difference, buddy.

[bungle]

I have to pay for the fuel I use to get to my place of work out of my taxed income. Only then am I able to claim. because the MP's say their home is the start of their journey they make the claim. Yes perhaps if people work from home they may do the same. I worry when people are making excuses.Read JB's list of expenses, look at how much it costs to run each MP and it is mind boggling. If people are part of the gravy train they will defend it i suppose, the same as the bankers were allowed free rien when Brown relaxed the regulations but it is still wrong.

 

Uh-huh, you have one place of work and you have to get to it. Fine. But you have missed the point and look very silly in doing so.

 

Unfortunately you devalue any argument you have by continually missing the point and getting issues mixed up. In my last post I said the issue of MPs' expenses needed reform - of course it does. But when you make silly, un-informed, sly comments then you devalue yourself.

[Johnny Bognor]

It would seem it costs DC more in expenses (living, as he does, quite near London) than it does GB (who lives in Scotland).

 

 

.....who lives across the street in a fully expensed home - you know, the one with the fully expensed policeman outside the front - number 10 or something.....and when he isn't there, he his jetting around trying to save (sorry, screw) the world (or is that himself) - at our expense!

 

From my sources, DC claims about £20k in his 2nd home allowance while GB claims £17k for his constuency home. Bear in mind that the cost of living in your neck of the woods or Notting Hill is far more than the cost of living in Scotland.

 

So in your mind, it is OK for Labour MPs to claim more for travel as they may live further away, but not OK for Tories to claim more in housing allowance because they happen to live in more expensive areas?

 

....that's the problem with Socialism - double standards! (but there is still good money to earnt from socialism)

Edited 31 March, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[OldNick]

But they'd still need a second home for the major part of the week when they were attending the house!!!!!!!!! David Cameron has a house up the road from me and also has a house in West London. No doubt he claims something for one or other of them. (Although on second thoughts he's so wealthy he possibly doesn't - that way he can take the moral high ground that many couldn't afford to do).

 

Oh, rewind - just found this (in the Daily Mail of all places :shock:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-556290/MPs-expenses-list-reveals-David-Cameron-used-claim-21-000-year-pay-mortgage.html

 

Maybe they should charge for hotels when in London then. I'm sure that'll work out cheaper.

 

Remember that it was the Conservative MPs who were aghast at the idea of their party publishing their expenses and the MPs who charged for non-existent jobs for their sons / nanny expenses were Conservatives.

 

And look at this too: :shock:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1165924/Party-leaders-expenses-revealed-Gordon-Brown-claimed-124-000-David-Cameron-invoiced-149-000.html

 

It would seem it costs DC more in expenses (living, as he does, quite near London) than it does GB (who lives in Scotland).

 

You don't claim for your business because you don't live there. That's the difference, buddy.

I undersatand that they can claim for an office/home but when like Smith and Mc Nulty claim against a sisters or parents home (only 8 miles away) then it is brought into question. I dont keep my bias in this, I abhore any Tory who takes the pee and also the labour ones as well.It seems that those on the other side of the fence it sticks in their craw to ever do so. Iam ashamed of any person who represented fair right- middle to right ideals having their hands in the till.When the Tories were ousted under the sleaze thing, i understood why but also reasoned that the new lot were little better and came in with a swagger and spin (where have we seen that at SMS ) but were the same.It is hypocrisy and as Johnny B reminded me, as much as i dont like the man Dennis Skinner seems to be a man who holds true to his beliefs.He gains grudging respect for being so. Not the Harriet Harmans, jackie Smiths, McNultys of the world

[badgerx16]

 

There are many on here that are clearly not represented politically as they claim to be socialist and at the same time distance themselves from the party they voted for and supported. I wonder who they will vote for at the next election........

Maybe we will execute our democratic right and withold our vote. It is likely that in my constituency, a Tory marginal, the following candidates will stand ;

 

the current sitting Tory ( Not a chance, though he actually is a local )

a nu-Labour acolyte ( ditto given current circumstances )

a Lib-Dem ( yeh, as if ! )

a UKIP facist ( but I am not Stanley )

 

Why vote when there is nobody you can agree with, surely that would be hypocritical ?

[OldNick]

Uh-huh, you have one place of work and you have to get to it. Fine. But you have missed the point and look very silly in doing so.

 

Unfortunately you devalue any argument you have by continually missing the point and getting issues mixed up. In my last post I said the issue of MPs' expenses needed reform - of course it does. But when you make silly, un-informed, sly comments then you devalue yourself.

I did see you say it needed reform, but it needs massive reform and fast.

The mood of the nation in these times where hardship is hitting the masses is turning.The MP's need to understand that.

[bungle]

I did see you say it needed reform, but it needs massive reform and fast.

The mood of the nation in these times where hardship is hitting the masses is turning.The MP's need to understand that.

 

I presume you have seen that by far the biggest figure is for staffing costs - but this always seems to get grouped is as if the MP themself is getting the cash. Of course a few seem to employ family members (tough one to get around as it isn't wrong per se), but for the vast majority that is a wage (and not a high one) for the people working for them.

[bridge too far]

OFFS JB - you KNOW perfectly well that the PM has to live at 10 Downing Street. And as for the policemen at his door, all senior MPs, whether government or opposition, have security. And I know this to be true as a friend of mine works for the Diplomatic Protection Group.

 

To back up my point made to NickH about travel expenses relating to the location of the constituency:

 

Expenses Top 10:

 

1. Eric Joyce (LAB: Falkirk) £187,334

2. Michael Connarty (LAB: Linlithgow & East Falkirk) £183,466

3. Alistair Carmichael (LD: Orkney & Shetland) £176,190

4. Ben Wallace (CON: Lancaster & Wyre) £175,523

5. Mohammad Sarwar (LAB: Glasgow Central) £174,882

6. Charles Kennedy (LD: Ross, Skye & Inverness West) £174,232

7. Janet Anderson (LAB: Rossendale & Darwen) £173,556

8. David Borrow (LAB: South Ribble) £172,706

9. Jim McGovern (LAB: Dundee West) £171,989

10. Fabian Hamilton (LAB: North East Leeds) £171,824

 

Most of these MPs represent Scottish Constituencies, with the exception of Ben Wallace (Con) from Lancaster and David Borrow (LAB) - South Ribble and Fabian Hamilton (LAB) - Leeds. Even these constituencies are in the north.

 

Interesting too, that DC's wife Samantha, ('heiress to a landowning Baronetcy') was paid £300K - doesn't say what for. The first link I published shows that GB claimed 2 x £137.00 in mortgage interest whereas DC claimed £21K and George Osborne claimed £18K. Even Tony Blair only claimed just under £4K.

[OldNick]

Maybe we will execute our democratic right and withold our vote. It is likely that in my constituency, a Tory marginal, the following candidates will stand ;

 

the current sitting Tory ( Not a chance, though he actually is a local )

a nu-Labour acolyte ( ditto given current circumstances )

a Lib-Dem ( yeh, as if ! )

a UKIP facist ( but I am not Stanley )

 

Why vote when there is nobody you can agree with, surely that would be hypocritical ?

I can see your quandry. .

i myself wish for the TRULY deserving and weak to be cared for. The workshy and lazy need to be forced to get a job or face the consequences.(of course in the current climate that is nye impossible) A fair tax system and that the generators of the economy are rewarded, law and order to be seen that the victim is more important than the criminal.

What party gives me that? None that i can see.

[bridge too far]

I did see you say it needed reform, but it needs massive reform and fast.

The mood of the nation in these times where hardship is hitting the masses is turning.The MP's need to understand that.

 

Which is why Gordon Brown wrote to the Committee yesterday asking that the timetable be brought forward.

 

What you musn't lose sight of is the fact that there is nothing illegal in what (most of) these MPs are doing.

 

We may not like it but, until the rules are changed, there's little we can do about it short of making our disquiet known. People will always use rules to their advantage.

[doublesaint]

Dont forget the Kinnocks, they had the miners lay down their jobs and get arrested to try and bring the government down so he could come to power.As soon as he didn't get to PM off he goes to high paid jobs for him his misses and daughter. Those socialiosts are like the Russian communists get rid of the people and the top and then use more excesses than there were there in the first place.

 

That would be the Kinnock who paved the way for the eventual Labour victory in the general election, if you saw his speech denouncing Derek Hatton and Liverpool city concil for the way they ran the place, then you may see part of the person he actually was. Also it was Arthur Scargill and Mick McGahey, who were leaders of the NUM at the time who had the 'miners lay down their jobs', if that is how you would describe people who are fighting for the right to work and the right to have a community...and yes before you start, the miners were badly ley down by the NUM, who saw it as a chance to topple the Government, the same way the government saw it a chance to smash the union movement and pass various anti union laws, and use the police force as a weapon of state.

[OldNick]

OFFS JB - you KNOW perfectly well that the PM has to live at 10 Downing Street. And as for the policemen at his door, all senior MPs, whether government or opposition, have security. And I know this to be true as a friend of mine works for the Diplomatic Protection Group.

 

To back up my point made to NickH about travel expenses relating to the location of the constituency:

 

Expenses Top 10:

 

1. Eric Joyce (LAB: Falkirk) £187,334

2. Michael Connarty (LAB: Linlithgow & East Falkirk) £183,466

3. Alistair Carmichael (LD: Orkney & Shetland) £176,190

4. Ben Wallace (CON: Lancaster & Wyre) £175,523

5. Mohammad Sarwar (LAB: Glasgow Central) £174,882

6. Charles Kennedy (LD: Ross, Skye & Inverness West) £174,232

7. Janet Anderson (LAB: Rossendale & Darwen) £173,556

8. David Borrow (LAB: South Ribble) £172,706

9. Jim McGovern (LAB: Dundee West) £171,989

10. Fabian Hamilton (LAB: North East Leeds) £171,824

 

Most of these MPs represent Scottish Constituencies, with the exception of Ben Wallace (Con) from Lancaster and David Borrow (LAB) - South Ribble and Fabian Hamilton (LAB) - Leeds. Even these constituencies are in the north.

 

Interesting too, that DC's wife Samantha, ('heiress to a landowning Baronetcy') was paid £300K - doesn't say what for. The first link I published shows that GB claimed 2 x £137.00 in mortgage interest whereas DC claimed £21K and George Osborne claimed £18K. Even Tony Blair only claimed just under £4K.

Those are travel expenses! of about 3k a week on average.The question whether we should have Scottish Mp when they have their own parliament is something else we really need to address as well.Im sure there are good reasons.

If Samantha Cameron is not due for the payment please expose it, being an heiress has nothing to do with the expenses debate IMO. I also cannot understand how she came to draw that much and it should be investigated.Nobody should be exempt.

[bridge too far]

Those are travel expenses! of about 3k a week on average.The question whether we should have Scottish Mp when they have their own parliament is something else we really need to address as well.Im sure there are good reasons.

If Samantha Cameron is not due for the payment please expose it, being an heiress has nothing to do with the expenses debate IMO. I also cannot understand how she came to draw that much and it should be investigated.Nobody should be exempt.

 

Which is exactly what I said immediately above the list! Do keep up, Nick

The bit about Samantha Cameron was in the first link - from the Daily Mail, so it must be true. I can't think what she would have done to earn that much either. The only possible answer that I can come up with is that she owns the Notting Hill House (because his mortgage claim is for the large house in Oxfordshire) and he pays her rent. But that's speculation on my part.

[OldNick]

Which is exactly what I said immediately above the list! Do keep up, Nick

The bit about Samantha Cameron was in the first link - from the Daily Mail, so it must be true. I can't think what she would have done to earn that much either. The only possible answer that I can come up with is that she owns the Notting Hill House (because his mortgage claim is for the large house in Oxfordshire) and he pays her rent. But that's speculation on my part.

 

Yes you did put it up on your first piece and that is why I put up those are travel expenses! not ? it was a case of !!!!!!!!! as Im astounded that these people are claiming so much.Sometimes the wording can be confusing even with emotions.So it's not a case of keep up, its a case of being on the ball when reading a reply.

Im not sure how many weeks a year these people are sitting at the HoC but I know its not every week.It would be interesting if it could be worked out how many times these people actually travelled to parkliament and what each journey cost US.

[OldNick]

welll if he is paying her rent it is a dodge, although legal and I dont think much of that either.

[bridge too far]

Yes you did put it up on your first piece and that is why I put up those are travel expenses! not ? it was a case of !!!!!!!!! as Im astounded that these people are claiming so much.Sometimes the wording can be confusing even with emotions.So it's not a case of keep up, its a case of being on the ball when reading a reply.

Im not sure how many weeks a year these people are sitting at the HoC but I know its not every week.It would be interesting if it could be worked out how many times these people actually travelled to parkliament and what each journey cost US.

 

I think the breakdown of expenses are to be published shortly. I say this because I've just been hearing on the radio that someone has offered said breakdown for £300K and John Peinar (sp?) the BBC Parliametary reporter has said the information will be available to all and sundry soon. So we'll be able to see then.

 

He also just said that it has to be remembered that the HoC sits late into the night and then starts up again early next day. Even if these MPs could get home very late at night (especially as a lot of them, if not most, travel by train) they wouldn't be able to get back again in time for the next day's business. That's why they have to stay in London.

 

I was interested to hear that hotel expenses were being mooted as an alternative to second homes. It would be interesting to see how the cost of that would compare.

 

But let's not lose sight of the fact that these MPs would be guilty of dereliction of duty if they did not attend the House.

 

Of far more concern to me is the behaviour of MPs claiming for expenses to which they are NOT entitled.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/2096020/Half-of-Conservative-Party-MEPs-ignoring-expenses-rules.html

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jun/06/conservatives.partyfunding

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035854/Conservatives-use-1-5m-taxpayers-money-year-pay-relatives.html

[bungle]

I think the breakdown of expenses are to be published shortly. I say this because I've just been hearing on the radio that someone has offered said breakdown for £300K and John Peinar (sp?) the BBC Parliametary reporter has said the information will be available to all and sundry soon. So we'll be able to see then.

 

Every single invoice submitted for the past 4 years will be available for the public to see in the near future.

 

This has cost the taxpayer millions, but no doubt it will be worth it because someone will have spent £30 on a pillow!!!

[Mole]

Every single invoice submitted for the past 4 years will be available for the public to see in the near future.

 

This has cost the taxpayer millions, but no doubt it will be worth it because someone will have spent £30 on a pillow!!!

 

I love it how people make up figures off the top of their head to try to make themselves sound informed.

[bridge too far]

I love it how people make up figures off the top of their head to try to make themselves sound informed.

 

Oh the splendid irony

[Mole]

Oh the splendid irony

 

What's this, have a go at stanley day?

 

It's a good job i'm thick skinned.

[Johnny Bognor]

Yes you did put it up on your first piece and that is why I put up those are travel expenses! not ? it was a case of !!!!!!!!! as Im astounded that these people are claiming so much.Sometimes the wording can be confusing even with emotions.So it's not a case of keep up, its a case of being on the ball when reading a reply.

Im not sure how many weeks a year these people are sitting at the HoC but I know its not every week.It would be interesting if it could be worked out how many times these people actually travelled to parkliament and what each journey cost US.

 

The expenses I put up relate to a number of different areas, however the last table was total expenses including travel, housing, staff and entertainment. So BTF is right to point out the distances travelled relating to travel expenses, however the total expenses covers everything.

 

 

On another note, I find it mildly amusing that the socialists on here go some way to distance themselves from the Labour party - the party they voted for. They purport that they have been betrayed, so I am confused as to why their anger is not directed at those who betrayed them, rather than their old enemy.

 

This leads me to two possible reasons:

1) To draw attention away from the guilt they feel

2) The need to distance themselves to have any modicum of socialist credentials

[bungle]

I love it how people make up figures off the top of their head to try to make themselves sound informed.

 

Sorry, I do not know how much a pillow might cost. I imagine £30 would be over the odds and therefore the type of thing that might anger you - especially as no-one could possibly need a pillow at both addresses, they should take their pillows back and forwards with them.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Sorry, I do not know how much a pillow might cost. I imagine £30 would be over the odds and therefore the type of thing that might anger you - especially as no-one could possibly need a pillow at both addresses, they should take their pillows back and forwards with them.

2 pillows for a tenner at Tesco's right now :-)

[Mole]

I love it how people make up figures off the top of their head to try to make themselves sound informed.

 

Every single invoice submitted for the past 4 years will be available for the public to see in the near future.

 

This has cost the taxpayer millions, but no doubt it will be worth it because someone will have spent £30 on a pillow!!!

 

Sorry, I do not know how much a pillow might cost. I imagine £30 would be over the odds and therefore the type of thing that might anger you - especially as no-one could possibly need a pillow at both addresses, they should take their pillows back and forwards with them.

 

You stated it has cost the tax payer millions to implement the itemised expenses lists. Can you back up this comment?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

What's this, have a go at stanley day?

 

It's a good job i'm thick skinned.

not sure about skinned.

[bungle]

You stated it has cost the tax payer millions to implement the itemised expenses lists. Can you back up this comment?

 

It will come out in due course when the task has been completed. I doubt there will be an exact figure available, but I am sure that there will be a rough figure available for your consumption. You will ignore it and claim the whole thing cost 27p.

[bungle]

2 pillows for a tenner at Tesco's right now :-)

 

Think they get them from John Lewis, don't they?!

[badgerx16]

On another note, I find it mildly amusing that the socialists on here go some way to distance themselves from the Labour party - the party they voted for. They purport that they have been betrayed, so I am confused as to why their anger is not directed at those who betrayed them, rather than their old enemy.

 

This leads me to two possible reasons:

1) To draw attention away from the guilt they feel

2) The need to distance themselves to have any modicum of socialist credentials

 

I don't discriminate, get shot of the whole rotten bunch, blue, red, or yellow, and start again once WE have set up a new set of rules for them operate by.

 

'Traditional' Labour supporters do feel slightly disenfranchised by Bliar and Brown, they moved to the right to chase the Daily Mail reading middle-Englanders. I am slightly suprised that there don't seem to be many Tories feeling their right-wing agenda isn't being served as Cameron moves his bunch similarly close to the centre to chase the same minority swing voters, leaving them to follow Stanley and consider the UKIP / BNP option.

 

I am all in favour of proportional representation; if only 70% of the elctorate vote, 30% of the seats at Westminster should be left vacant.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Think they get them from John Lewis, don't they?!

Outrageous!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm going to write to the Daily Mail.

[Johnny Bognor]

 

I am all in favour of proportional representation; if only 70% of the elctorate vote, 30% of the seats at Westminster should be left vacant.

 

Well it would cut expense claims by 30% :-)

[Gingeletiss]

Think they get them from John Lewis, don't they?!

 

Not far wrong...........one MP has claimed £500 for a kitchen sink, real stone apparently!!

[bridge too far]

The expenses I put up relate to a number of different areas, however the last table was total expenses including travel, housing, staff and entertainment. So BTF is right to point out the distances travelled relating to travel expenses, however the total expenses covers everything.

 

 

On another note, I find it mildly amusing that the socialists on here go some way to distance themselves from the Labour party - the party they voted for. They purport that they have been betrayed, so I am confused as to why their anger is not directed at those who betrayed them, rather than their old enemy.

 

This leads me to two possible reasons:

1) To draw attention away from the guilt they feel

2) The need to distance themselves to have any modicum of socialist credentials

 

Because the Labour Party isn't socialist, maybe :smt102

 

Faced with the choice available at the last elections, the pragmatic move is to vote Labour because the alternatives are even less appealing.

 

If I didn't vote at all I would be a) denying myself my democratic right and b) risking letting the other lot in.

 

That doesn't mean that people like me SUPPORT this government. It means we carry on, in a democratic manner, seeking to change the direction in which the Labour Party is travelling i.e. centre where it's soon going to bump into DC's Conservatives.

[Durleyfos]

MPs, whether you like it or not, DO have two places of work. Their first obligation is to their constituencies. Their second is attendance in the House of Commons.

 

How come Tony McNulty needs a second home?

 

His constituency is Harrow East. :smt017

[bridge too far]

Not far wrong...........one MP has claimed £500 for a kitchen sink, real stone apparently!!

 

John Lewis is 'never knowingly undersold' so they probably got the best price there

[bungle]

How come Tony McNulty needs a second home?

 

His constituency is Harrow East. :smt017

 

The issue of London MPs is one that needs sorting out. None of them should need a second home, even if they don't live in their constituency.

[badgerx16]

How come Tony McNulty needs a second home?

 

His constituency is Harrow East. :smt017

But the rules say his constituency is NOT an 'inner London' one; they are the only seats to which this allowance does not apply.

[Johnny Bognor]

Because the Labour Party isn't socialist, maybe :smt102

 

Faced with the choice available at the last elections, the pragmatic move is to vote Labour because the alternatives are even less appealing.

 

If I didn't vote at all I would be a) denying myself my democratic right and b) risking letting the other lot in.

 

That doesn't mean that people like me SUPPORT this government. .

 

I believe until relatively recently that you were a fully paid up member....is that not support? ...and even if you do not support them, you are very quick to defend them.... a bit too quick for someone who has been so betrayed.

 

It means we carry on, in a democratic manner, seeking to change the direction in which the Labour Party is travelling i.e. centre where it's soon going to bump into DC's Conservatives.

 

So if you want to move them back to the left, they will once again be unelectable - you may as well just vote lib dem if you want to vote for an unelectable party.

 

The great sadness for me, after 12 years of Labour, was that it hasn't proved that socialism doesn't work - they abandoned socialism and moved to the centre. Had they stayed at the left, then once and for all, the argument would have been settled - i.e. Socialism does not and will never work

 

(P.S., but it still pays relatively well, though)