Quiet this site, nowadays....

[alpine_saint]

Why just mention the Happy clappies? some of the Anti's are just as loud mouthed are they not?

 

 

There is one significant difference between the Anti-Lowes and the Happy-Clappies.

 

In my my opinion, very few of the Anti-Lowes call into question how strongly the Happy-Clappies support Saints (espeically via the attendance issue) just because they disagree with their opinion, unlike the opposite direction where it has become the tedious automated response.

 

I dont beleive that ending your posts "COYR" or "get behind the team, FFS" makes you any more of a fan than starting a post "we were absolutely shiit today"

 

Btw, as I tried to explain (albeit poorly), I used the term "happy-clappy" on this thread as a reference everyone would understand whom I refer to. If someone wants to refer to me and those of similar though as "Crouch Pillow Biters" for convenience, please feel free, but what an irony that this term was first used for Mike Wilde who has basically changed sides like an Italian tank crew...

[saintjay77]

Trust me they are one and the same person. A few weeks ago nineteencanteen used an unusual turn of phrase that was identical to a term used by the Beast.

 

Stanley if we trusted you we would be relegated already and in administration 3 times with no team at all. I havnt seen anything you say to be good enough info to be trusted.

[saintjay77]

There is one significant difference between the Anti-Lowes and the Happy-Clappies.

 

In my my opinion, very few of the Anti-Lowes call into question how strongly the Happy-Clappies support Saints (espeically via the attendance issue) just because they disagree with their opinion, unlike the opposite direction where it has become the tedious automated response.

 

I dont beleive that ending your posts "COYR" or "get behind the team, FFS" makes you any more of a fan than starting a post "we were absolutely shiit today"

 

Btw, as I tried to explain (albeit poorly), I used the term "happy-clappy" on this thread as a reference everyone would understand whom I refer to. If someone wants to refer to me and those of similar though as "Crouch Pillow Biters" for convenience, please feel free, but what an irony that this term was first used for Mike Wilde who has basically changed sides like an Italian tank crew...

 

I wasnt having a dig at you alps and tbf your posts dont often wind me up. Would be nice if you were a little more optomistic at times but I read your posts for what they are rather than jumping up and down like some others because of what they think you might be trying to say.

 

I was simply making a point. Both sides have there tedious automated responce imo. I dont know how mnay times I have read that we have gone into admin or have been relegated already but im guessing its the same ammount of times as the so called happy clappies blame our problems on the anti's or attendances. So your point can stand on both sides.

 

In reality though there are very few people that are on the extreme sides and warrent the Happy clappy or luvvie or pillow biters or any of the other labels. Most people in SMS and here just want things to get better no matter who is calling the shots. If a better solution than the current one turns up then that will get more support than the 2 sides have at the mo. until then most are just gritting there teeth hoping for something better.

[LGTL]

The problem is, this forum just isn't 'fun' anymore. I used to come on for some light relief back in the day, but it's full of arguments over the same things, day in, day out. All getting rather boring now, lets be honest.

[Mole]

Stanley if we trusted you we would be relegated already and in administration 3 times with no team at all. I havnt seen anything you say to be good enough info to be trusted.

 

I said we'd be relegated before this season started as soon as Lowe arrived and inititated his "play the kids" Dutch masterplan. I stand by that prediction as even though we've picked up since Lowes plan was scrapped it's a case of "shuting the stable door after the horse has bolted" imo.

 

As for us going into administration i think it will happen. The club is losing more money than it's making and has been doing for a long time. A business cannot keep running like this. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

[SW11_Saint]

Not biased just stating it as it is.LC and LM have correctly decidied to stay out of the politics for the time being.I wonder why that is?

Probably putting the good of the club before their own ego's for a while. A good example for our current Plc. Chairman!

[saintjay77]

I said we'd be relegated before this season started as soon as Lowe arrived and inititated his "play the kids" Dutch masterplan. I stand by that prediction as even though we've picked up since Lowes plan was scrapped it's a case of "shuting the stable door after the horse has bolted" imo.

 

As for us going into administration i think it will happen. The club is losing more money than it's making and has been doing for a long time. A business cannot keep running like this. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

 

Prediction and fact are 2 different things. I doubt there were many that thought this season wouldnt be a struggle no matter who was in charge.

 

My prediction was it would be a close shave but I was hoping that this crazy plan of skilful un-known kids might surprise a few teams and we would at best reach mid table. My prediction is still achievable as we could still just about avoid relegation.

 

The whole point about playing the kids and not the high earners was to combat the club losing more money than its making in a bid to avoid administration. If we dont go into admin then it would apear that plan worked but its not rocket science to realise that you would not accept that and just slate it as one of Lowes crazy ideas.

[saintjay77]

Probably putting the good of the club before their own ego's for a while. A good example for our current Plc. Chairman!

 

I think they have all been guilty of putting there egos 1st but fair play to Crouch for his latest angle and Rupes would do well to learn from it. We might actualy get a united board who are short term trying to make sur the club survives and long term looking to sell it tto someone who can really take us forward.

 

Ive seen that film with Father Christmas and I know that Miricles can happen!!!

[NickG]

the constant labelling of posters got boring;

 

if you agree with slightest thing Lowe did - Lowe luvvie

 

if you want Crouch back you have to disagree with everything Lowe does

 

if you wanted NP to stay you must slag off everything since

 

if you think Wotte started as well as NP/better means you hated NP and didn't want him to stay etc etc

[OldNick]

Probably putting the good of the club before their own ego's for a while. A good example for our current Plc. Chairman!

I would aim that at LC not so sure about LM though.I wonder who bought his shares and if they have been used to keep RL in power.

[N/West Saint]

The problem is, this forum just isn't 'fun' anymore. I used to come on for some light relief back in the day, but it's full of arguments over the same things, day in, day out. All getting rather boring now, lets be honest.

 

 

I think you are right. No humour anymore.

 

Allways look on the bright side of life.

[trousers]

I'm sure I remember Nineteen acknowledging his previous incarnation(s) on at least one occasion. Whilst he was generally a good deal less antagonistic than Sundance, I thought they were one and the same after very few posts. Has he gone then?

 

Every now and then Mr Beast would write in the same style that Mr Canteen writes (wrote?) in. I suspected that Sundance Beast was being used by more than one person, one of which may well have been Nineteen Canteen. Maybe. IMHO of course

 

Weston - when you say Nineteen Canteen is no longer posting do you mean it simply as an observation that he hasn't posted for a while or do you know that he's packed his bags from here, and if the latter, how come...?

[sadoldgit]

Quite simple really. Some, including me are fed up with the bickering on this site and see no useful purpose in posting much anymore.

 

Spot on Weston. Every day it is the same old same old.

 

Same threads from the same people barking on with their same agendas.

 

I don't bother to come on much now because I know exactly what is going to be said and by whom.

 

The negativity just wears you down.

 

Whether we will stay up or not I don't know. What I do know is that I will hope for the best until the outcome is decided. If that makes me "Happy Clappy" then yay for me.

 

I also know that if we do go down this place with be full of even more negativity and recriminations. When things are at their lowest ebb you need support and positivity even more than ever but you just know that will not happen.

[Weston Saint]

Weston - when you say Nineteen Canteen is no longer posting do you mean it simply as an observation that he hasn't posted for a while or do you know that he's packed his bags from here, and if the latter, how come...?

It was not an observation

[alpine_saint]

Spot on Weston. Every day it is the same old same old.

 

Same threads from the same people barking on with their same agendas.

 

I don't bother to come on much now because I know exactly what is going to be said and by whom.

 

The negativity just wears you down.

 

Whether we will stay up or not I don't know. What I do know is that I will hope for the best until the outcome is decided. If that makes me "Happy Clappy" then yay for me.

 

I also know that if we do go down this place with be full of even more negativity and recriminations. When things are at their lowest ebb you need support and positivity even more than ever but you just know that will not happen.

 

Wow, SOGGY lecturing about the same old stuff from the same old people. How ironic...

 

No comment about the negativity from the club wearing the fans down, I take it ???

Edited 19 March, 2009 by alpine_saint

[aintforever]

This site will always be a reflection of the club - people just don't give a toss any more.

 

There is no future with the current people in charge, stay up or go down it makes little difference IMO. If we manage to pull of an escape we will just be putting off the inevitable relegation until next year or the year after.

 

The only chance of a future is new ownership, unfortunately it appears the only chance of that is admin which will only be brought about by relegation which is crap.

[alpine_saint]

This site will always be a reflection of the club - people just don't give a toss any more.

 

There is no future with the current people in charge, stay up or go down it makes little difference IMO. If we manage to pull of an escape we will just be putting off the inevitable relegation until next year or the year after.

 

The only chance of a future is new ownership, unfortunately it appears the only chance of that is admin which will only be brought about by relegation which is crap.

 

Spot on.

[NickG]

This site will always be a reflection of the club - people just don't give a toss any more.

 

There is no future with the current people in charge, stay up or go down it makes little difference IMO. If we manage to pull of an escape we will just be putting off the inevitable relegation until next year or the year after.

The only chance of a future is new ownership, unfortunately it appears the only chance of that is admin which will only be brought about by relegation which is crap.

 

there's pessimism and then there's totally depression!

[alpine_saint]

there's pessimism and then there's totally depression!

 

Its neither. Its reality.

 

The Premiership Grim Reaper pounced on piiss-poor management decisions eventually, and the CCC Grim Reaper is going to do exactly the same.

[NickG]

what else can you tell us from 14 or 26 months in future which is a reality?

[saintwarwick]

Its neither. Its reality.

 

The Premiership Grim Reaper pounced on piiss-poor management decisions eventually, and the CCC Grim Reaper is going to do exactly the same.

 

Ah well never mind, I'll still be a happy clappy in league one because it's not the end of the ****ing world.

[NickG]

Ah well never mind, I'll still be a happy clappy in league one because it's not the end of the ****ing world.

 

relative success is good, but its still worth going if you enjoy it however we do- if you don't and want to move on fair enough - at least its easier to park!

[aintforever]

there's pessimism and then there's totally depression!

 

Do you really have confidence in Lowe not messing things up again?

[NickG]

no, but nor am I giving up on us ever getting better - we did ok at times with him before so it is possible even if not probable

[Saintandy666]

Active members have gone up several hundred in last week or two.

[SaintRobbie]

Probably putting the good of the club before their own ego's for a while. A good example for our current Plc. Chairman!

 

Brilliant Avatar! I want one SW11

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Wow, SOGGY lecturing about the same old stuff from the same old people. How ironic...

 

No comment about the negativity from the club wearing the fans down, I take it ???

 

The negativity of the club has been bringing me down, but I take it as it comes, sh!t happens. Not happy at Lowe STILL being here, and that also gets me down. However, the thing that hits me hardest, and the reason I for one have been quiet, is this board is just so depressing. I think I come on here more now as a kind of morbid curiosity when I feel I'm getting too happy, as I have no depressants at home...

[um pahars]

I remain to be convinced that Sundance Beast and Nineteen Canteen are the same person.

 

Definitely the same person.

 

Upon his return under his new guise, it didn't take him too long to slip back into the old ways and start rounding and abusing certain individuals.

 

To ensure he didn't get the elbow again, he obviously tried to mix these tirades with more reasoned posts, but ultimately he couldn't keep up the facade for too long before it cracked again.

 

The new improved version was too often interspersed with the old Flashman/Sundance etc.

 

And I don't think he is anyone of importance and certainly not the names banded about on here (along with Marland as some believe). I may not agree with the strategy and execution of Lowe and co., but they are not that bad!!!

[Chewy]

Speaking purely for myself, it's a combination at depression at the club's plight and boredom at the tedious bickering on here.

 

The majority of posters on here just throw insults and statistics at each other, and quite frankly neither 'camp' have a tenable argument.

 

Over the last five years this club, with the exception of Leeds, has seen the biggest fall from grace of any club in England. Widen the period to 10 or 15 years you might include Forest, Leicester, Sheff Wed & Man City who all had a stint in Div 3 (or whatever it's now called) but however long you measure it from we're a disaster story in recent times.

 

(Note - please read the entire post before reacting to this next bit) For all but 6 months of that time the club has been run by either Rupert or Wilde, so whatever way you wrap it up, blaming Crouch for this club's plight over the longer term is simply not a valid or justifiable argument.

 

As for Crouch, while I have a little bit more time for him, he is clearly an idiot when it comes to business and the politics that come with it. He was caught up in the anti-Lowe tide and completely and irresponsibly failed to complete any due diligence to make sure he and Wilde could afford to dump Lowe so humiliatingly, and then dumped Wilde without either the funds himself or investors lined up to do this. Add in his childish behaviour at the last AGM and you can tell he still hasn't learned to stop playing the popularity contest and start thinking like a businessman.

 

This has led to a completely divided shareholding, led by three entirely devisive figures, and a disasterous financial position. In turn, we are getting worse on the pitch (over the longer term) so are now staring both administration and relegation in the face.

 

While we've been in a similar position for a couple of years there was previously hope that something might happen. I think this hope is now gone. Our performances on the pitch and financially are feeding each other in a downward spiral, and the only thing that will break this cycle is a takeover; at one point this looked viable, but our finacial position is worse, we'll probably be a further division down come May, and as evidenced before, the factions in the shareholding make a takeover difficult. Who in their right mind would take us over now?

 

So on a wider level there is despair, and many fans wrestle with deciding whether they can bare to watch. Those that do have seen poor result after poor result at home, those that don't have seen few signs to encourage them back. They hate the board, are frustrated at the club's plight, and would have to be massochistic beyond belief to add to this by reading a load of sniping on an internet forum (especially as they have to pay to engage properly).

 

So most normal people with a balanced view, with no particular axe to grind, and no massochistic tendancies are understandably giving this place a wdie berth ... unless they are particularly bored one Thursday evening and decidied to have a look for the first time in a while.

 

That's my answer, anyway.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Definitely the same person.

 

Upon his return under his new guise, it didn't take him too long to slip back into the old ways and start rounding and abusing certain individuals.

 

To ensure he didn't get the elbow again, he obviously tried to mix these tirades with more reasoned posts, but ultimately he couldn't keep up the facade for too long before it cracked again.

 

The new improved version was too often interspersed with the old Flashman/Sundance etc.

 

And I don't think he is anyone of importance and certainly not the names banded about on here (along with Marland as some believe). I may not agree with the strategy and execution of Lowe and co., but they are not that bad!!!

 

What I don't understand is that if he isn't one of them, and if he isn't a wind up merchant, then who the hell is he? There is no-one who is quite that fanatical about ssomething that is inherently wrong. Apart from Scooby. Whatever happened to Scooby?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Speaking purely for myself, it's a combination at depression at the club's plight and boredom at the tedious bickering on here.

 

The majority of posters on here just throw insults and statistics at each other, and quite frankly neither 'camp' have a tenable argument.

 

Over the last five years this club, with the exception of Leeds, has seen the biggest fall from grace of any club in England. Widen the period to 10 or 15 years you might include Forest, Leicester, Sheff Wed & Man City who all had a stint in Div 3 (or whatever it's now called) but however long you measure it from we're a disaster story in recent times.

 

(Note - please read the entire post before reacting to this next bit) For all but 6 months of that time the club has been run by either Rupert or Wilde, so whatever way you wrap it up, blaming Crouch for this club's plight over the longer term is simply not a valid or justifiable argument.

 

As for Crouch, while I have a little bit more time for him, he is clearly an idiot when it comes to business and the politics that come with it. He was caught up in the anti-Lowe tide and completely and irresponsibly failed to complete any due diligence to make sure he and Wilde could afford to dump Lowe so humiliatingly, and then dumped Wilde without either the funds himself or investors lined up to do this. Add in his childish behaviour at the last AGM and you can tell he still hasn't learned to stop playing the popularity contest and start thinking like a businessman.

 

This has led to a completely divided shareholding, led by three entirely devisive figures, and a disasterous financial position. In turn, we are getting worse on the pitch (over the longer term) so are now staring both administration and relegation in the face.

 

While we've been in a similar position for a couple of years there was previously hope that something might happen. I think this hope is now gone. Our performances on the pitch and financially are feeding each other in a downward spiral, and the only thing that will break this cycle is a takeover; at one point this looked viable, but our finacial position is worse, we'll probably be a further division down come May, and as evidenced before, the factions in the shareholding make a takeover difficult. Who in their right mind would take us over now?

 

So on a wider level there is despair, and many fans wrestle with deciding whether they can bare to watch. Those that do have seen poor result after poor result at home, those that don't have seen few signs to encourage them back. They hate the board, are frustrated at the club's plight, and would have to be massochistic beyond belief to add to this by reading a load of sniping on an internet forum (especially as they have to pay to engage properly).

 

So most normal people with a balanced view, with no particular axe to grind, and no massochistic tendancies are understandably giving this place a wdie berth ... unless they are particularly bored one Thursday evening and decidied to have a look for the first time in a while.

 

That's my answer, anyway.

 

Thank god someone could be bothered to articulate what I'm feeling. Bravo sir, top post.

[aintforever]

Speaking purely for myself, it's a combination at depression at the club's plight and boredom at the tedious bickering on here.

 

The majority of posters on here just throw insults and statistics at each other, and quite frankly neither 'camp' have a tenable argument.

 

Over the last five years this club, with the exception of Leeds, has seen the biggest fall from grace of any club in England. Widen the period to 10 or 15 years you might include Forest, Leicester, Sheff Wed & Man City who all had a stint in Div 3 (or whatever it's now called) but however long you measure it from we're a disaster story in recent times.

 

(Note - please read the entire post before reacting to this next bit) For all but 6 months of that time the club has been run by either Rupert or Wilde, so whatever way you wrap it up, blaming Crouch for this club's plight over the longer term is simply not a valid or justifiable argument.

 

As for Crouch, while I have a little bit more time for him, he is clearly an idiot when it comes to business and the politics that come with it. He was caught up in the anti-Lowe tide and completely and irresponsibly failed to complete any due diligence to make sure he and Wilde could afford to dump Lowe so humiliatingly, and then dumped Wilde without either the funds himself or investors lined up to do this. Add in his childish behaviour at the last AGM and you can tell he still hasn't learned to stop playing the popularity contest and start thinking like a businessman.

 

This has led to a completely divided shareholding, led by three entirely devisive figures, and a disasterous financial position. In turn, we are getting worse on the pitch (over the longer term) so are now staring both administration and relegation in the face.

 

While we've been in a similar position for a couple of years there was previously hope that something might happen. I think this hope is now gone. Our performances on the pitch and financially are feeding each other in a downward spiral, and the only thing that will break this cycle is a takeover; at one point this looked viable, but our finacial position is worse, we'll probably be a further division down come May, and as evidenced before, the factions in the shareholding make a takeover difficult. Who in their right mind would take us over now?

 

So on a wider level there is despair, and many fans wrestle with deciding whether they can bare to watch. Those that do have seen poor result after poor result at home, those that don't have seen few signs to encourage them back. They hate the board, are frustrated at the club's plight, and would have to be massochistic beyond belief to add to this by reading a load of sniping on an internet forum (especially as they have to pay to engage properly).

 

So most normal people with a balanced view, with no particular axe to grind, and no massochistic tendancies are understandably giving this place a wdie berth ... unless they are particularly bored one Thursday evening and decidied to have a look for the first time in a while.

 

That's my answer, anyway.

 

Can't argue with any of that.

[um pahars]

What I don't understand is that if he isn't one of them, and if he isn't a wind up merchant, then who the hell is he? There is no-one who is quite that fanatical about ssomething that is inherently wrong. Apart from Scooby. Whatever happened to Scooby?

 

I didn't rule that out;)

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I didn't rule that out;)

 

For some reason I am. to be as prolific as he was, I can't believe that he'd do that to entertain himself. I just can't!

[Dalek2003]

I agree with the setniments of many. There is almost a sense of quiet foreboding amongst the fans as we anticipate and appreciate the enourmity of the next few games that will either be the start of a great and dramatic escape or see us slide into the dark unforgiving depths of league One.

[Windmill Arm 2]

Is it because we all deep-down (including the loud-mouthed happy-clappies) are resigned to relegation, and are just worn out by the whole thing ?

 

 

Its because everything associated with Southampton FC is W A N K

[Windmill Arm 2]

I said we'd be relegated before this season started as soon as Lowe arrived and inititated his "play the kids" Dutch masterplan. I stand by that prediction as even though we've picked up since Lowes plan was scrapped it's a case of "shuting the stable door after the horse has bolted" imo.

 

As for us going into administration i think it will happen. The club is losing more money than it's making and has been doing for a long time. A business cannot keep running like this. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

 

You can almost FEEL the pleasure oozing from your text, you'd fookin love it if we fell even further into the abyss wouldn't you ? Fookin love it !

(In a Keegan stylee)

Oh and before your next 'little tank' retort, 70 Tonnes is NOT little.

[trousers]

It was not an observation

 

Thanks (in an 'out of the loop' kinda way....)

[Dalek2003]

Can I just say, 'it is spookily quiet'. Anyone out there ? Hello ?

Feel like the last Dalek in the universe.

[trousers]

What I don't understand is that if he isn't one of them, and if he isn't a wind up merchant, then who the hell is he? There is no-one who is quite that fanatical about ssomething that is inherently wrong. Apart from Scooby. Whatever happened to Scooby?

 

Still chasing that illusive Oscar last time I heard....

[trousers]

Can I just say, 'it is spookily quiet'. Anyone out there ? Hello ?

Feel like the last Dalek in the universe.

 

[Dalek2003]

Scooby was a wind up merchant.

[Dalek2003]

 

 

Where is the dalek ? Is that Glenn Hoddle in the bar ?

[alpine_saint]

Speaking purely for myself, it's a combination at depression at the club's plight and boredom at the tedious bickering on here.

 

The majority of posters on here just throw insults and statistics at each other, and quite frankly neither 'camp' have a tenable argument.

 

Over the last five years this club, with the exception of Leeds, has seen the biggest fall from grace of any club in England. Widen the period to 10 or 15 years you might include Forest, Leicester, Sheff Wed & Man City who all had a stint in Div 3 (or whatever it's now called) but however long you measure it from we're a disaster story in recent times.

 

(Note - please read the entire post before reacting to this next bit) For all but 6 months of that time the club has been run by either Rupert or Wilde, so whatever way you wrap it up, blaming Crouch for this club's plight over the longer term is simply not a valid or justifiable argument.

 

As for Crouch, while I have a little bit more time for him, he is clearly an idiot when it comes to business and the politics that come with it. He was caught up in the anti-Lowe tide and completely and irresponsibly failed to complete any due diligence to make sure he and Wilde could afford to dump Lowe so humiliatingly, and then dumped Wilde without either the funds himself or investors lined up to do this. Add in his childish behaviour at the last AGM and you can tell he still hasn't learned to stop playing the popularity contest and start thinking like a businessman.

 

This has led to a completely divided shareholding, led by three entirely devisive figures, and a disasterous financial position. In turn, we are getting worse on the pitch (over the longer term) so are now staring both administration and relegation in the face.

 

While we've been in a similar position for a couple of years there was previously hope that something might happen. I think this hope is now gone. Our performances on the pitch and financially are feeding each other in a downward spiral, and the only thing that will break this cycle is a takeover; at one point this looked viable, but our finacial position is worse, we'll probably be a further division down come May, and as evidenced before, the factions in the shareholding make a takeover difficult. Who in their right mind would take us over now?

 

So on a wider level there is despair, and many fans wrestle with deciding whether they can bare to watch. Those that do have seen poor result after poor result at home, those that don't have seen few signs to encourage them back. They hate the board, are frustrated at the club's plight, and would have to be massochistic beyond belief to add to this by reading a load of sniping on an internet forum (especially as they have to pay to engage properly).

 

So most normal people with a balanced view, with no particular axe to grind, and no massochistic tendancies are understandably giving this place a wdie berth ... unless they are particularly bored one Thursday evening and decidied to have a look for the first time in a while.

 

That's my answer, anyway.

 

And its a good answer. But when the football is so piiss-poor, and the future of the club is so in the balance, it is hardly surprising that so much time is spent discussing non-football issues.

[EFM]

Speaking purely for myself, it's a combination at depression at the club's plight and boredom at the tedious bickering on here.

 

The majority of posters on here just throw insults and statistics at each other, and quite frankly neither 'camp' have a tenable argument.

 

Over the last five years this club, with the exception of Leeds, has seen the biggest fall from grace of any club in England. Widen the period to 10 or 15 years you might include Forest, Leicester, Sheff Wed & Man City who all had a stint in Div 3 (or whatever it's now called) but however long you measure it from we're a disaster story in recent times.

 

(Note - please read the entire post before reacting to this next bit) For all but 6 months of that time the club has been run by either Rupert or Wilde, so whatever way you wrap it up, blaming Crouch for this club's plight over the longer term is simply not a valid or justifiable argument.

 

As for Crouch, while I have a little bit more time for him, he is clearly an idiot when it comes to business and the politics that come with it. He was caught up in the anti-Lowe tide and completely and irresponsibly failed to complete any due diligence to make sure he and Wilde could afford to dump Lowe so humiliatingly, and then dumped Wilde without either the funds himself or investors lined up to do this. Add in his childish behaviour at the last AGM and you can tell he still hasn't learned to stop playing the popularity contest and start thinking like a businessman.

 

This has led to a completely divided shareholding, led by three entirely devisive figures, and a disasterous financial position. In turn, we are getting worse on the pitch (over the longer term) so are now staring both administration and relegation in the face.

 

While we've been in a similar position for a couple of years there was previously hope that something might happen. I think this hope is now gone. Our performances on the pitch and financially are feeding each other in a downward spiral, and the only thing that will break this cycle is a takeover; at one point this looked viable, but our finacial position is worse, we'll probably be a further division down come May, and as evidenced before, the factions in the shareholding make a takeover difficult. Who in their right mind would take us over now?

 

So on a wider level there is despair, and many fans wrestle with deciding whether they can bare to watch. Those that do have seen poor result after poor result at home, those that don't have seen few signs to encourage them back. They hate the board, are frustrated at the club's plight, and would have to be massochistic beyond belief to add to this by reading a load of sniping on an internet forum (especially as they have to pay to engage properly).

 

So most normal people with a balanced view, with no particular axe to grind, and no massochistic tendancies are understandably giving this place a wdie berth ... unless they are particularly bored one Thursday evening and decidied to have a look for the first time in a while.

 

That's my answer, anyway.

 

What a very very good summation. And in a way the whole point of this thread and the predictable way it developed partly sums up why myself (a mere skin-flint "reigsiterd user") and many other Saints friends can rarely bring ourselves to look at the forum these days, let alone post a reply. The downfall of the club is enough misery without reading the repetible arguments that every thread descends into.

[St Landrew]

Speaking purely for myself, it's a combination at depression at the club's plight and boredom at the tedious bickering on here.

 

The majority of posters on here just throw insults and statistics at each other, and quite frankly neither 'camp' have a tenable argument.

 

Over the last five years this club, with the exception of Leeds, has seen the biggest fall from grace of any club in England. Widen the period to 10 or 15 years you might include Forest, Leicester, Sheff Wed & Man City who all had a stint in Div 3 (or whatever it's now called) but however long you measure it from we're a disaster story in recent times.

 

(Note - please read the entire post before reacting to this next bit) For all but 6 months of that time the club has been run by either Rupert or Wilde, so whatever way you wrap it up, blaming Crouch for this club's plight over the longer term is simply not a valid or justifiable argument.

 

As for Crouch, while I have a little bit more time for him, he is clearly an idiot when it comes to business and the politics that come with it. He was caught up in the anti-Lowe tide and completely and irresponsibly failed to complete any due diligence to make sure he and Wilde could afford to dump Lowe so humiliatingly, and then dumped Wilde without either the funds himself or investors lined up to do this. Add in his childish behaviour at the last AGM and you can tell he still hasn't learned to stop playing the popularity contest and start thinking like a businessman.

 

This has led to a completely divided shareholding, led by three entirely devisive figures, and a disasterous financial position. In turn, we are getting worse on the pitch (over the longer term) so are now staring both administration and relegation in the face.

 

While we've been in a similar position for a couple of years there was previously hope that something might happen. I think this hope is now gone. Our performances on the pitch and financially are feeding each other in a downward spiral, and the only thing that will break this cycle is a takeover; at one point this looked viable, but our finacial position is worse, we'll probably be a further division down come May, and as evidenced before, the factions in the shareholding make a takeover difficult. Who in their right mind would take us over now?

 

So on a wider level there is despair, and many fans wrestle with deciding whether they can bare to watch. Those that do have seen poor result after poor result at home, those that don't have seen few signs to encourage them back. They hate the board, are frustrated at the club's plight, and would have to be massochistic beyond belief to add to this by reading a load of sniping on an internet forum (especially as they have to pay to engage properly).

 

So most normal people with a balanced view, with no particular axe to grind, and no massochistic tendancies are understandably giving this place a wide berth ... unless they are particularly bored one Thursday evening and [have] decided to have a look for the first time in a while.

 

That's my answer, anyway.

 

I could quibble with a few detail points here and there, but you've got your fundamental points correct as far as I'm concerned.

 

I suppose I should outline my quibbles:

 

1] There are tenable arguments to be made. But opinions are often mistaken for fact.

2] I believe Leon Crouch to be a reasonable businessman, and I certainly wouldn't call him an idiot. One only has to realise that his business ventures have grown in the past [whatever they are doing now in the economic climate]. But one can certainly sense, the frustrated fan in him rules his heart, when it comes to Saints. But who could genuinely criticise him for that..?

 

There. Not much of a quibble was it..?

[Mole]

the constant labelling of posters got boring;

 

if you agree with slightest thing Lowe did - Lowe luvvie

 

if you want Crouch back you have to disagree with everything Lowe does

 

if you wanted NP to stay you must slag off everything since

 

if you think Wotte started as well as NP/better means you hated NP and didn't want him to stay etc etc

 

And what about your chortling smirky post having a dig about those oposed to Portvliet after he'd won 2 games on the trot. This thread has been jumped on by the Lowe supporters who are trying to claim the moral highground, when in reality you are no better. It's like when sadoldgit has a pop about what people post and in the same post gets his usual obsessed dig in about Alpine. Hypocrites is the word i'd use.

[NickG]

I have insulted and baited - equally it doesn't help forum.

 

I would hope not often and am ignoring posts I find annoying rather than responding as have done before.

 

I do think there are a certain few posters who are more guilty of both labelling and actively trying to find ways to criticise the club that I do find annoying (and the following defence of the club gets labelled as being lowe luvvies).

[sambosa75]

To be fair Alps, the forum has been quiet recently due to you not being on here quite as much, stirring the pot. I think most fans are concentrating their efforts on seeing this club stay up this season, which is something the players have given themselves a fighting chance of doing recently. Most fans are happy about that and realise now is not the time for *****ing or trying to find out who is more to blame but to get behind the side and hope we can retain our Championship status. Obviously for someone like yourself who doesnt attend matches no matter what your circumstances may be, its not really a concern for you who we play against.

[alpine_saint]

To be fair Alps, the forum has been quiet recently due to you not being on here quite as much, stirring the pot. I think most fans are concentrating their efforts on seeing this club stay up this season, which is something the players have given themselves a fighting chance of doing recently. Most fans are happy about that and realise now is not the time for *****ing or trying to find out who is more to blame but to get behind the side and hope we can retain our Championship status. Obviously for someone like yourself who doesnt attend matches no matter what your circumstances may be, its not really a concern for you who we play against.

 

Thanks for proving my point succinctly..