The hunt is on a for a huge IRA bomb

[Mole]

Apparently British intelligence have found out that the real/continuity IRA (not sure which one) have a 500lb bomb (the same size as the Omagh bomb) somewhere in Northern Ireland which is destined for England.

 

So much for the peace in Northern Ireland. It's time for us to get tough and re-intern the ****ers we let out.

[Mole]

Link...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/4978297/Northern-Ireland-Hunt-for-300lb-bomb-feared-to-have-been-smuggled-across-Irish-border.html

 

(the Sun reckon it's a 500lb bomb, the Telegraph a 300lb bomb. Personally i think it's a 400lb bomb)

[Scudamore]

Link...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/4978297/Northern-Ireland-Hunt-for-300lb-bomb-feared-to-have-been-smuggled-across-Irish-border.html

 

(the Sun reckon it's a 500lb bomb, the Telegraph a 300lb bomb. Personally i think it's a 400lb bomb)

 

???

[norwaysaint]

As a kid I used to hate the Catholics because of the violence. I still do hate nybody who uses violence to get their way.

 

Then I read the history of Northern Ireland and saw why Catholics there hate the British.

 

As usual it turns out British history has very little to make you proud and plenty to make you embarrassed and ashamed. Anybody using phrases like "catholic scum" really needs to learn about what we did to these people. It's not as if it can be put in the "ancient history folder" either. What we British did there is still affecting the present day.

[Hatch]

I'm fed up with people trying to blow me up.

It gets irritating after a while.

[Badger]

As a kid I used to hate the Catholics because of the violence. I still do hate nybody who uses violence to get their way.

 

Then I read the history of Northern Ireland and saw why Catholics there hate the British.

 

As usual it turns out British history has very little to make you proud and plenty to make you embarrassed and ashamed. Anybody using phrases like "catholic scum" really needs to learn about what we did to these people. It's not as if it can be put in the "ancient history folder" either. What we British did there is still affecting the present day.

 

And when are you harking back to, Cromwell ? He was not particularly pleasant to many in England either.

 

Bringing it forward a few hundred years,were the British ,(or English as most of the Catholic Irish seem prepared to overlook the involvement of Scots,or Welsh in blame) responsible for the Potatoe Famine ?

 

Troops going into Northern Ireland in the late 1960's were to protect the Catholic community.

 

Admittedly this is only a very few extracts from history,but its easy for the extremists in NI to perpetrate the myth that all their ills,social,ecomomic and natural,are the fault of the English.

[thesaint sfc]

As a kid I used to hate the Catholics because of the violence. I still do hate nybody who uses violence to get their way.

 

Then I read the history of Northern Ireland and saw why Catholics there hate the British.

 

As usual it turns out British history has very little to make you proud and plenty to make you embarrassed and ashamed. Anybody using phrases like "catholic scum" really needs to learn about what we did to these people. It's not as if it can be put in the "ancient history folder" either. What we British did there is still affecting the present day.

 

Just been reading into it on Wikipedia but it's not much good. Anywhere you can suggest?

[thesaint sfc]

Scrub that - found a different page now.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

The right-wing press in public panic shocker!

[OldNick]

things that happened 300 years ago is not my responsibility.There are problems in the world that are kept going hundreds of years on , its ridiculous.

There are just people who need strife so they can get their way...does that remind you of anything closer to home?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

things that happened 300 years ago is not my responsibility.There are problems in the world that are kept going hundreds of years on , its ridiculous.

There are just people who need strife so they can get their way...does that remind you of anything closer to home?

 

Potentially a ridiculous comparison, but it still holds the right sentiment: What happened during the strike that led to Saints-Pompey rivalry is not MY responsibility but no doubt you have an issue with them?

[norwaysaint]

things that happened 300 years ago is not my responsibility.There are problems in the world that are kept going hundreds of years on , its ridiculous.

There are just people who need strife so they can get their way...does that remind you of anything closer to home?

 

I have to agree that there's nothing positive in perpetuating a problem, but to understand the present, you need to understand history.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

If the war had gone differently and Nazi Germany had invaded Britain, with the US not getting involved in the war. Imagine we had been oppressed during those years by the Germans, given no rights, had our possessions and land/homes taken away and given to Germans, any disagreement dealt with brutally/lethally by German police, you get the picture.

Eventually we get our independence, but there is still a strong German army presence and the land/homes and possessions are never returned. Also most of the people in positions of power are still the ones put there by the Germans and are generally of German descent.

 

Do you think you'd welcome German soldiers on your streets? Do you think you'd have no hard feelings? Would you try to teach your children and grandchildren that they should happily accept the situation?

 

Violence and terrorism are wrong and despicable, but knowing history will help you build for the future rather than exacerbate problems.

 

 

 

Also, it's important to remember that history isn't written definitively anywhere. The same football match could be described unrecognisably differently from the view of fans from opposing sides and differently again by a neutral. Imagine if there was no official score either.

[OldNick]

I have to agree that there's nothing positive in perpetuating a problem, but to understand the present, you need to understand history.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

If the war had gone differently and Nazi Germany had invaded Britain, with the US not getting involved in the war. Imagine we had been oppressed during those years by the Germans, given no rights, had our possessions and land/homes taken away and given to Germans, any disagreement dealt with brutally/lethally by German police, you get the picture.

Eventually we get our independence, but there is still a strong German army presence and the land/homes and possessions are never returned. Also most of the people in positions of power are still the ones put there by the Germans and are generally of German descent.

 

Do you think you'd welcome German soldiers on your streets? Do you think you'd have no hard feelings? Would you try to teach your children and grandchildren that they should happily accept the situation?

 

Violence and terrorism are wrong and despicable, but knowing history will help you build for the future rather than exacerbate problems.

 

 

 

Also, it's important to remember that history isn't written definitively anywhere. The same football match could be described unrecognisably differently from the view of fans from opposing sides and differently again by a neutral. Imagine if there was no official score either.

i understand all that, but the germans would have 'educated' the children and through the schools would have erased these things. Not correct of course but the Nazi's would have sorted it in time. By now we would have had 3 generations where the young would have been brainwashed and t would all be cleaned, a bit like 1984.

As for things that happened and soldiers on the streets that was a mistake by politicians at the time of the uprising early in the 20th c. At that time the IRA had lttle support as soon as they were arrested then the mood changed. I think the bloke who just has been jailed in Iraq for throwing the shoe at Bushwill be seen as a mistake long term

[badgerx16]

 

If the war had gone differently and Nazi Germany had invaded Britain, with the US not getting involved in the war. Imagine we had been oppressed during those years by the Germans, given no rights, had our possessions and land/homes taken away and given to Germans, any disagreement dealt with brutally/lethally by German police, you get the picture.

 

quote]

 

How far back do you go ? The Norman conquest - painted exactly this scenario for the native population of these islands ( in fact the first 'English' invasion of Ireland was Norman led ); the Romans, ditto.

 

As for the Catholic / Protestant divide, look at Europe during the 16th & 17th centuries; look at the social upheaval in this country during the post Henry 8th period, the various religious inspired purgings and public executions of 'heretics'. Look at the oppression inflicted by the Jesuits and the Inquisition.

 

As for social deprivation in the 19th century, how much different were conditions for the workhouse families in Britain from those in rural Ireland ? At least those in the fields got fresh air !

 

"History is bunk" - at least if you fail to realise that looking backwards only ever leads to trouble. Learn and move on rather that repeat the same old formula.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

 

If the war had gone differently and Nazi Germany had invaded Britain, with the US not getting involved in the war. Imagine we had been oppressed during those years by the Germans, given no rights, had our possessions and land/homes taken away and given to Germans, any disagreement dealt with brutally/lethally by German police, you get the picture.

 

quote]

 

How far back do you go ? The Norman conquest - painted exactly this scenario for the native population of these islands ( in fact the first 'English' invasion of Ireland was Norman led ); the Romans, ditto.

 

As for the Catholic / Protestant divide, look at Europe during the 16th & 17th centuries; look at the social upheaval in this country during the post Henry 8th period, the various religious inspired purgings and public executions of 'heretics'. Look at the oppression inflicted by the Jesuits and the Inquisition.

 

As for social deprivation in the 19th century, how much different were conditions for the workhouse families in Britain from those in rural Ireland ? At least those in the fields got fresh air !

 

"History is bunk" - at least if you fail to realise that looking backwards only ever leads to trouble. Learn and move on rather that repeat the same old formula.

 

History is by no means 'bunk', and it is pathetic ridiculous comments like that which have caused problems around the globe. How can this country ever deal with the threat of the fascist BNP if people cannot (or for a few of you, WILL NOT) make comparisons to Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and what they did? I know for one that my Grandfathers would be turning in their graves if they could see Fascism, a force they fought againt, was making a 'come back'

[Mole]

I have to agree that there's nothing positive in perpetuating a problem, but to understand the present, you need to understand history.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

If the war had gone differently and Nazi Germany had invaded Britain, with the US not getting involved in the war. Imagine we had been oppressed during those years by the Germans, given no rights, had our possessions and land/homes taken away and given to Germans, any disagreement dealt with brutally/lethally by German police, you get the picture.

Eventually we get our independence, but there is still a strong German army presence and the land/homes and possessions are never returned. Also most of the people in positions of power are still the ones put there by the Germans and are generally of German descent.

 

Do you think you'd welcome German soldiers on your streets? Do you think you'd have no hard feelings? Would you try to teach your children and grandchildren that they should happily accept the situation?

 

Violence and terrorism are wrong and despicable, but knowing history will help you build for the future rather than exacerbate problems.

 

 

 

Also, it's important to remember that history isn't written definitively anywhere. The same football match could be described unrecognisably differently from the view of fans from opposing sides and differently again by a neutral. Imagine if there was no official score either.

 

I sometimes think our contry would be a lot better today had Germany won the war.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I sometimes think our contry would be a lot better today had Germany won the war.

 

Without doubt the most ridiculous comment EVER made on this forum

[Mole]

Without doubt the most ridiculous comment EVER made on this forum

 

In your no doubt unconsidered opinion. For one thing had we sided with Germany the empire would still be intact and immigration from the colonies wouldn't have happened. The first few years might not have been particularly pleasant but by now i think us and Germany would be allies and the global superpowers.

 

Also why do schools teach about the greatness of the Roman empire, but don't teach about the greatness of our own empire?

Edited 13 March, 2009 by Mole

[jeff leopard]

In your no doubt unconsidered opinion. For one thing had we sided with Germany the empire would still be intact and immigration from the colonies wouldn't have happened.

 

How so? We would have killed them all?

 

IMO immigration is an inevitable outcome of an empire. We steal their land, impose our own culture, squander their resourses, make them fight in our wars, and then we have the nerve to complain when they 'come over here'.

 

lol

[Mole]

How so? We would have killed them all?

 

IMO immigration is an inevitable outcome of an empire. We steal their land, impose our own culture, squander their resourses, make them fight in our wars, and then we have the nerve to complain when they 'come over here'.

 

lol

 

So it's our punishment, is that what you're saying?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

So it's our punishment, is that what you're saying?

 

Stanley, have you turned mental?! Why is it a good thing that we had an empire? What right did (do) we have to just waltz into another country, turn them into slaves, commit genocide and, as Jeff Leopard stated, moan when they emmigrate over here? The brutality of our 'empire' was increadible. Did you know we traded New Zealand for guns and alcohol because the Moaris (sp?) didn't understand what the **** was going on??!?! Or that in Tasmania, we hunted the natives for sport? Where is the humanity in that?

 

If 'Great' Britain has ever been 'great', then empire is not something we should add under that bracket. It is all a load of jingoistic bull****, and I for one feel that anything to do with our Empire should be scraped: People who sing Rule Brittania need to have their heads examined. Plus, I would only keep it on the National Curriculum to teach children the horrors of colonialism. O, and by the way, pupils are not taught how 'great' the Roman Empire was: I understand why you think this might be the case, but kids are taught about how 'revolutionary' the Romans were in their administration and points like that: Straight roads, public health measures etc etc.

 

As for you claiming that Germany and the UK would now be superpowers...what planet are you on? Hitler would have arrived in Britain and used it as a base from which to launch an eventual attack on America. He would have spared no-one; I hope there is no history of hereidtary (sp?) disease in your family because if there was, and Hitler had invaded, YOU wouldn't be here because he would have murdered your family. He would have used our natural resources and seen Britain for what it really is: A little ****ty insignificant island who has no real say in anything.

Edited 13 March, 2009 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[Scudamore]

[badgerx16]

 

History is by no means 'bunk', and it is pathetic ridiculous comments like that which have caused problems around the globe. How can this country ever deal with the threat of the fascist BNP if people cannot (or for a few of you, WILL NOT) make comparisons to Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany and what they did? I know for one that my Grandfathers would be turning in their graves if they could see Fascism, a force they fought againt, was making a 'come back'

So you read the last paragraph of my post and deliberately reversed the logic of what I was saying to try and score a petty point ? The relevant part, which you seem to have blithely overlooked is "at least if you fail to realise that looking backwards only ever leads to trouble. Learn and move on rather that repeat the same old formula."

 

My Grandfathers were also involved in the war, one fighting the Japs in Burma, ( did not get back home until 1947 ), and the other in Vosper's shipyard, where he contracted the respiratory disease that killed him on the day I was due to be born.

[OldNick]

Stanley, have you turned mental?! Why is it a good thing that we had an empire? What right did (do) we have to just waltz into another country, turn them into slaves, commit genocide and, as Jeff Leopard stated, moan when they emmigrate over here? The brutality of our 'empire' was increadible. Did you know we traded New Zealand for guns and alcohol because the Moaris (sp?) didn't understand what the **** was going on??!?! Or that in Tasmania, we hunted the natives for sport? Where is the humanity in that?

 

If 'Great' Britain has ever been 'great', then empire is not something we should add under that bracket. It is all a load of jingoistic bull****, and I for one feel that anything to do with our Empire should be scraped: People who sing Rule Brittania need to have their heads examined. Plus, I would only keep it on the National Curriculum to teach children the horrors of colonialism. O, and by the way, pupils are not taught how 'great' the Roman Empire was: I understand why you think this might be the case, but kids are taught about how 'revolutionary' the Romans were in their administration and points like that: Straight roads, public health measures etc etc.

 

As for you claiming that Germany and the UK would now be superpowers...what planet are you on? Hitler would have arrived in Britain and used it as a base from which to launch an eventual attack on America. He would have spared no-one; I hope there is no history of hereidtary (sp?) disease in your family because if there was, and Hitler had invaded, YOU wouldn't be here because he would have murdered your family. He would have used our natural resources and seen Britain for what it really is: A little ****ty insignificant island who has no real say in anything.

Your last sentence is as regrettable as any of Stanleys. I love reading all the Liberal stuff about how they are ashamed of our Empire. If it wasnt for the wealth of our Empire, you wouldnt have the lifestyle you enjoy now. It was due to people who rightly or wrongly went about the world developing commerce and yes there were some majpor downsides but dont sit in your ivory tower thinking you are not enjoying some of the fruits of it.

The British Empire gave lots of good to the world as well as bad. Forget not that some countries even now shouldn't be able to rule themselves. Would it be better that the rule of law to our standards still be used in Zimbabwe or in other states?

If it wasnt for the Empire Germany would have invaded us with ease and that the war would not have been won. It was due to us to be able to get people who saw us as the motherland to fight alongside us. They were not press ganged, but were proud to be part of the Empire. it is easy to pick all the faults and use that to beat us. No Empire and we would be in the same category as Greece without the tourism and weather.Iceland would be probably on par.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I sometimes think our contry would be a lot better today had Germany won the war.

 

Lucky for us then that our ancestors didn't let your nazi/fascist friends win then.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I sometimes think our contry would be a lot better today had Germany won the war.

 

Without doubt the most ridiculous comment EVER made on this forum

 

Would tend to agree with Thorpe, however would struggle to say 'the most' simply one of the most

[Saint in Paradise]

Thorpe I think that you should look much deeper into NZ History

[St Landrew]

Thorpe I think that you should look much deeper into NZ History

 

Are you referring to the Maoriori, Seatbelt..?

[Saint in Paradise]

No StL not just them the Maori were a lot more intelligent than Thorpe implies, also IF the Brits had not

arrived the French would have and their colonial past is much worse than the Brits.

[St Landrew]

No StL not just them the Maori were a lot more intelligent than Thorpe implies, also IF the Brits had not

arrived the French would have and their colonial past is much worse than the Brits.

 

Yep, this is true. And of course, the modern Maori are reclaiming many lands back that they consider were unjustifibly taken away from them under the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840.

 

In the face of modern attitudes and how people view colonialism, nobody gets away scott free. The Spanish for example, had killed several million Indians only a few years after the American continent had been discovered by Columbus. They had no objective to civilise [i.e. bring order to the native people in their own image and rules], but sought to plunder as much wealth as they could, in the most efficient manner. And if that meant several million died, then so be it. Against this comparison, Britain seems to come out fairly well, but our history in no way should make us think we were angels bringing milk and honey to desparate people. In most cases they were better off if the old world powers had left them alone. We often transported disease and rats, and nothing else. In a sense the only reason GB went to far off places was so that we could plunder as much as we could, but before anyone else did. For example, a lot of Indian princes personal wealths fell dramatically as several stately homes rose in good ol' GB. And let's not get started on the slave trade and sugar plantations.

 

Out of this kind of superior colonialism came such well known ditties as Rule Brittannia and Jerusalem. I wipe a glazed eye, with the rest of them, when I hear... And did those feet in ancient times, walk upon England's mountains green... but that's because I'm an incurable romantic, and it's a beautiful sounding hymn, but I know the difference. I know how it got to be. On the backs of people who didn't want us to be there. And yes, it was perhaps this country's fate to be the guardian that held back Nazi ambitions while the U.S. decided whether they were going to make some dosh out of the affair [sorry, I really don't mean to be cynical, certainly not to the people who fought or suffered] In that case, this country's wealth went down to sod all while US wealth went up very-nicely-thank-you. And nowadays the biggest, bestest country doesn't need to be a colonial power to have influence. It just has to lean. Even at a whisper it speaks the loudest.

 

So what's my point..? In a history of opportunity and repercussions, it's the time, place and readiness that dictates what happens. And it's what a country does with that opportunity that defines it. You have relatively youthful westernised countries like NZ who try to act nobly, IMO. But they have the luxury of doing so, as they are not a really big player [sorry Seatbelt]. And then you have mega powers like the USA who could abuse their power far more than they do and get away with it. Perhaps they already do to their satisfaction anyway..? Nobody is completely right, and history, as they say, is written by the victor.

 

Sorry, I've waffled so I'll stop there. Oh btw, the Moriori were driven out by the Maori. The last full-blooded Moriori woman died on Chatham Island while I was living in NZ, I believe. And before you say it, it wasn't my fault.

Edited 14 March, 2009 by St Landrew

[OldNick]

Yep, this is true. And of course, the modern Maori are reclaiming many lands back that they consider were unjustifibly taken away from them under the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840.

 

In the face of modern attitudes and how people view colonialism, nobody gets away scott free. The Spanish for example, had killed several million Indians only a few years after the American continent had been discovered by Columbus. They had no objective to civilise [i.e. bring order to the native people in their own image and rules], but sought to plunder as much wealth as they could, in the most efficient manner. And if that meant several million died, then so be it. Against this comparison, Britain seems to come out fairly well, but our history in no way should make us think we were angels bringing milk and honey to desparate people. In most cases they were better off if the old world powers had left them alone. We often transported disease and rats, and nothing else. In a sense the only reason GB went to far off places was so that we could plunder as much as we could, but before anyone else did. For example, a lot of Indian princes personal wealths fell dramatically as several stately homes rose in good ol' GB. And let's not get started on the slave trade and sugar plantations.

 

Out of this kind of superior colonialism came such well known ditties as Rule Brittannia and Jerusalem. I wipe a glazed eye, with the rest of them, when I hear... And did those feet in ancient times, walk upon England's mountains green... but that's because I'm an incurable romantic, and it's a beautiful sounding hymn, but I know the difference. I know how it got to be. On the backs of people who didn't want us to be there. And yes, it was perhaps this country's fate to be the guardian that held back Nazi ambitions while the U.S. decided whether they were going to make some dosh out of the affair [sorry, I really don't mean to be cynical, certainly not to the people who fought or suffered] In that case, this country's wealth went down to sod all while US wealth went up very-nicely-thank-you. And nowadays the biggest, bestest country doesn't need to be a colonial power to have influence. It just has to lean. Even at a whisper it speaks the loudest.

 

So what's my point..? In a history of opportunity and repercussions, it's the time, place and readiness that dictates what happens. And it's what a country does with that opportunity that defines it. You have relatively youthful westernised countries like NZ who try to act nobly, IMO. But they have the luxury of doing so, as they are not a really big player [sorry Seatbelt]. And then you have mega powers like the USA who could abuse their power far more than they do and get away with it. Perhaps they already do to their satisfaction anyway..? Nobody is completely right, and history, as they say, is written by the victor.

 

Sorry, I've waffled so I'll stop there. Oh btw, the Moriori were driven out by the Maori. The last full-blooded Moriori woman died on Chatham Island while I was living in NZ, I believe. And before you say it, it wasn't my fault.

i know this thread is about something different but your avatar sent a warm shiver down my spine, an iconic picture of big Ron. Is there a bigger image i can see somewhere?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

nickh - you're quite correct, without an empire we would have lost the second world war. However you could argue that if we didn't have an empire the second world war wouldn't have started at all:

 

Empire was one of the main catalysts for the start of WW1. If there was no WW1 there would have been no Treaty of Versailles and with no Treaty of Versailles there wouldn't have been a jumped up little Austrian who wanted to take over the world.

[St Landrew]

i know this thread is about something different but your avatar sent a warm shiver down my spine, an iconic picture of big Ron. Is there a bigger image i can see somewhere?

 

Sure. It's a b/w photo of Ron at the Dell during a match against Man City. Tony Towers is, I believe the opposition player. I've edited the photo into a colour image. My avatar is a reduced and cropped version. Here are both - Just click on the thumbs:

[St Landrew]

And I think this thread has had its day.