The King is dead. Long live the King!

[um pahars]

and Saejis is a signing I doubt the 20 minute Messiah could have plucked out. He would have gone looking for Lucketti and checking what other clubs he didn't want to play against before we signed on loan.

 

That will be the same Lucketti who played a big role in 4 of our last 5 games which helped us stay up.

 

Playing alongside that rubbish loanee Chris Perry (wonder what happened to him after his loan period finished???) and that other waste of space loanee, Richard Wright.

 

When you look at his judicous loans at Leicester and the players he picked up for us, then having a pop at Pearson's ability to spot short term solutions isn't one of the best lines of attack,:rolleyes::---):---) but don't let that get in the way of your rants at Pearson, Crouch et al.

 

How about giving us your post-event analysis of the Poortvliet appointment and his contribution to football at Southampton and to the English game in general.

Edited 9 March, 2009 by um pahars

[Tamesaint]

Paul Jewell could have got Leicester promoted or even Justin Fashanu, Derak Acorah and an ashtray (Just for Tamesaint).

 

Thanks Nineteen. Do I take it that this is your admission that Sundance Beast / Nineteen Canteen are the same???

[Wes Tender]

If you are going to adopt a youth policy because you are hamstrung by 2 years of financial mis-management on a grand scale why shouldn't you adopt the Dutch ethos that is generally regarded as the best way to coach youth football and why our FA and many others no doubt have visited their facilities.

 

The Dutch way, will still work for us and Saejis is a signing I doubt the 20 minute Messiah could have plucked out. He would have gone looking for Lucketti and checking what other clubs he didn't want to play against before we signed on loan.

 

Perhaps you'd prefer we'd signed players like Dean Windass to keep us from the drop?

 

What is the point in having a thread like this if some posters are going to attempt to use it to rewrite history? All very well praising the Dutch ethos of coaching youngsters and mentioning Saijis as an example, while at the same time ignoring the absolute crap signed by the hapless other Dutch maestro Poortvliet, those World beaters Smith, Pulis and Gasmi and the couple of brilliant strikers who we sent back, Peckart and to my eternal shame I forget the other one, such was the impression he made.

 

What this proves, is that the double Dutch have been able from their experience of Dutch football, to sign a half reasonable player from Holland, whilst their ignorance of the British game meant that they signed a succession of duds from the British leagues, players largely rejected by their clubs.

 

As for your earlier contention that Wotte has produced reasonable results against your list containing some of the best teams in this division, you ignore totally the fact that Pearson's team also played some of the top teams in the division in the short time that he was here and he had a demoralised team and loanee players with which to hit the ground running, instead of the amount of time that Wotte had as Poortvliet's subordinate in which to assess the abilities and worth of the squad.

 

Mind you, us signing Dutch players is not a new phenomenon; we have had the likes of Monkou and Van Gobbel playing for us previously and also some good Norwegian and Swedish players, so we did manage to spot a few decent European players without the aid of the double Dutch, whereas the examples I gave of their choice of British players leaves a lot to be desired compared to the signings that Pearson made.

 

And while you talk about the parlous financial state that the club found itself following the two years following Lowe's departure, will you have the decency to admit that during most of that time the club was run by appointees of the Quisling and that you condemn him for the mess he caused and place on record that he should have no part in the running of the club as a result?

[Frank's cousin]

I think its NOT just about finances - although have without doubt played a major part. I think Lowe has always been big on youth and the dutch model at Ajex - a conveyor belt of talent that means you have ready made replacements for players sold without the outlay, and the very best can be sold at a premium providing a decent revenue stream. He wanted to do it when Hoddle was here, but put it on the back burner... probably felt time was right when we survived as the only way was up.

 

I dont think the mistake was in attempting to adopt the 'Ajax' system, but in taking it to the extreme - he probably felt it was better to invest 1mil in a young player who could potential be increasing in value and sold later at a profit, than a mil on an old player on his last outing/season or two with no sell on, OR on the higher wages of our older players. Simple economics dictating policy - His error was this extreme, not blending the two as we probably would have done HAD we not had the financial pressures - these swayed him to go the whole hog, afterall we had not done that before when in the prem.

 

Its the assumption that this was done out of some pure unthought out stupidity that is simply wrong - it WAS thought out on those economic terms. The 'stupidity' was in the assumption that it be possible to get by on the approach without 2 or 4 experienced players to give a backbone to the side. I have to admit, I was hopeful, worried, but hopeful, and certyainly felt no worse than at the start of the last couple of seasons...

[alpine_saint]

To be fair Alpine we could have Alex Ferguson at the helm, with internationals in every position and you'd still find something to be a miserable ****** about.

 

Utter bolllocks that you are completely incapable of proving.

 

Nice that you decided to respond with abuse and treat one of the opinions you sought with such a lack of respect.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Utter bolllocks that you are completely incapable of proving.

 

Nice that you decided to respond with abuse and treat one of the opinions you sought with such a lack of respect.

 

Oh dear. It is just a forum you know.

[Scudamore]

Oh dear. It is just a forum you know.

 

[Secret Site Agent]

Thats what i thought

[Daren W]

What is the point in having a thread like this if some posters are going to attempt to use it to rewrite history? All very well praising the Dutch ethos of coaching youngsters and mentioning Saijis as an example, while at the same time ignoring the absolute crap signed by the hapless other Dutch maestro Poortvliet, those World beaters Smith, Pulis and Gasmi and the couple of brilliant strikers who we sent back, Peckart and to my eternal shame I forget the other one, such was the impression he made.

 

What this proves, is that the double Dutch have been able from their experience of Dutch football, to sign a half reasonable player from Holland, whilst their ignorance of the British game meant that they signed a succession of duds from the British leagues, players largely rejected by their clubs.

 

As for your earlier contention that Wotte has produced reasonable results against your list containing some of the best teams in this division, you ignore totally the fact that Pearson's team also played some of the top teams in the division in the short time that he was here and he had a demoralised team and loanee players with which to hit the ground running, instead of the amount of time that Wotte had as Poortvliet's subordinate in which to assess the abilities and worth of the squad.

 

Mind you, us signing Dutch players is not a new phenomenon; we have had the likes of Monkou and Van Gobbel playing for us previously and also some good Norwegian and Swedish players, so we did manage to spot a few decent European players without the aid of the double Dutch, whereas the examples I gave of their choice of British players leaves a lot to be desired compared to the signings that Pearson made.

 

And while you talk about the parlous financial state that the club found itself following the two years following Lowe's departure, will you have the decency to admit that during most of that time the club was run by appointees of the Quisling and that you condemn him for the mess he caused and place on record that he should have no part in the running of the club as a result?

 

Spot on Wes.

 

Have people completely forgotten Wilde's role in our financial plight?? Or is Crouch the worst businessman in history bringing the club to itskness is just four months???

 

I am, though, heartily sick and tired of the likes of Sundance continually digging and digging at Pearson. It's really quite unpleasant the way a decent man has been maligned and slated just because he's a Crouch signing.

 

I do love the way though, that Sundance perpetuates the "Ducth" myth and that the "Dutch Revolution" is still on track merely because the new manager is Dutch.

 

So did we have a Scottish revolution when we had Strachan and Burley as managers?? A born again christian revolution when we employed Hoddle? To say that Wotte is an exponent of the "Dutch revolution" is laughable as if anything he's more akin to a traditional 442 than anything Poortvielt came up with..

 

At the end of the day, Pearson was, if anything, more a Rupert Lowe managerial appointment than Poortvielt ever was. A young, aspiring English manager with loads of experience with young players, a fact that the likes of Sundance and his team of history re-writers seem to forget. He brought in loan players as we were desperate and boy, did he get them right as the likes of Lucketti, Perry and Wright were just what we needed in terms of old hands who knew the score. Compare that to some of the ridiculous signings that Poortvielt brought in and then tell me who's the better manager?

 

To just write him off as some sort of dinosaur and to ignore his achievements as Leicester is just plain cheap and pathetic. To write of Leicester's surge towards the championship as "Well they've got money. They're a big club in a small league" is remarkably naive and stupid. Ask Leeds fans if it's an easy league.

 

What Leicester have to contend with is what we had to contend with in our first two seasons in the Championship... Everyone wants to beat them. To get back at the first attempt is no mean achivement and it relies solely on

a) A good manager

and

b) A good chairman, especially in League One where cash is tight.

 

Guess what? Leicester have both...

[Sheff Saint]

Spot on Wes.

 

Have people completely forgotten Wilde's role in our financial plight?? Or is Crouch the worst businessman in history bringing the club to itskness is just four months???

 

I am, though, heartily sick and tired of the likes of Sundance continually digging and digging at Pearson. It's really quite unpleasant the way a decent man has been maligned and slated just because he's a Crouch signing.

 

I do love the way though, that Sundance perpetuates the "Ducth" myth and that the "Dutch Revolution" is still on track merely because the new manager is Dutch.

 

So did we have a Scottish revolution when we had Strachan and Burley as managers?? A born again christian revolution when we employed Hoddle? To say that Wotte is an exponent of the "Dutch revolution" is laughable as if anything he's more akin to a traditional 442 than anything Poortvielt came up with..

 

At the end of the day, Pearson was, if anything, more a Rupert Lowe managerial appointment than Poortvielt ever was. A young, aspiring English manager with loads of experience with young players, a fact that the likes of Sundance and his team of history re-writers seem to forget. He brought in loan players as we were desperate and boy, did he get them right as the likes of Lucketti, Perry and Wright were just what we needed in terms of old hands who knew the score. Compare that to some of the ridiculous signings that Poortvielt brought in and then tell me who's the better manager?

 

To just write him off as some sort of dinosaur and to ignore his achievements as Leicester is just plain cheap and pathetic. To write of Leicester's surge towards the championship as "Well they've got money. They're a big club in a small league" is remarkably naive and stupid. Ask Leeds fans if it's an easy league.

 

What Leicester have to contend with is what we had to contend with in our first two seasons in the Championship... Everyone wants to beat them. To get back at the first attempt is no mean achivement and it relies solely on

a) A good manager

and

b) A good chairman, especially in League One where cash is tight.

 

Guess what? Leicester have both...

 

And just to support this, of teams that have been in the Prem and then relegated to League 1 how many have gone straight back up to the CCC?

 

One, Manchester City, scrapping through the play offs.

 

How many failed at the first attempt, if at all? Bradford, Forest, Leeds, Sheff Weds.

 

If Leicester get up and get up automatically it will be some achievement.

[ottery st mary]

I think its NOT just about finances - although have without doubt played a major part. I think Lowe has always been big on youth and the dutch model at Ajex - a conveyor belt of talent that means you have ready made replacements for players sold without the outlay, and the very best can be sold at a premium providing a decent revenue stream. He wanted to do it when Hoddle was here, but put it on the back burner... probably felt time was right when we survived as the only way was up.

 

I dont think the mistake was in attempting to adopt the 'Ajax' system, but in taking it to the extreme - he probably felt it was better to invest 1mil in a young player who could potential be increasing in value and sold later at a profit, than a mil on an old player on his last outing/season or two with no sell on, OR on the higher wages of our older players. Simple economics dictating policy - His error was this extreme, not blending the two as we probably would have done HAD we not had the financial pressures - these swayed him to go the whole hog, afterall we had not done that before when in the prem.

 

Its the assumption that this was done out of some pure unthought out stupidity that is simply wrong - it WAS thought out on those economic terms. The 'stupidity' was in the assumption that it be possible to get by on the approach without 2 or 4 experienced players to give a backbone to the side. I have to admit, I was hopeful, worried, but hopeful, and certyainly felt no worse than at the start of the last couple of seasons...

 

The system you talk of sounds fine and if implemented over a number of years through the youth and reserve set up even with the Dutch group of Wotte Gorreand JP it may/would have worked. Alongside this was the continuity of the first team squad with the youngsters already or about to join the first team with the mixture of experience that you talk of..

The wasted money we have all discussed in the loan/ purchases of much dross would have been better used to support the on going Manager whilst his knew system evolved.

 

The problem was Rupert knew better than anyone as usual and sacked/moved on the Manager Pearson who would have been his master stroke to further this scheme in unison with Wotte/JP/Gorre

 

In my view Rupert rid the club of Pearson not out of financial reasons but due to his connection to Crouchey. We can argue all we like but even if not Pearson a similar type coach to run the first team squad whilst the youth idea was developed.

 

ALL YOU Lowey cheerleaders that I have such good humoured fun with(excusing Ruperts secret agents..idiots) know that most of this statement is true. This tragic mistake by Rupert was a definite result of his ego/pride or just his character and therefore he lost a great chance to take this club forward to greater things by one stupid failed decision..The sacking of Pearson... Alternatively the appointment of a Manager/Coach who knew the football and the CCC whilst the Dutch boys learnt their trade..

I am not even sure that Wotte has really found his feet yet even though he has been hands on with JP all season..regardless of what has been said Mr Wotte has been there with the first team squad for a long time and still not CCC savvy.

[hamster]

If Leicester get up and get up automatically it will be some achievement.

 

'when' imo ss? And in many people's opinions it would be some achievment due to a pretty remarkable manager.

[Frank's cousin]

The system you talk of sounds fine and if implemented over a number of years through the youth and reserve set up even with the Dutch group of Wotte Gorreand JP it may/would have worked. Alongside this was the continuity of the first team squad with the youngsters already or about to join the first team with the mixture of experience that you talk of..

The wasted money we have all discussed in the loan/ purchases of much dross would have been better used to support the on going Manager whilst his knew system evolved.

 

The problem was Rupert knew better than anyone as usual and sacked/moved on the Manager Pearson who would have been his master stroke to further this scheme in unison with Wotte/JP/Gorre

 

In my view Rupert rid the club of Pearson not out of financial reasons but due to his connection to Crouchey. We can argue all we like but even if not Pearson a similar type coach to run the first team squad whilst the youth idea was developed.

 

ALL YOU Lowey cheerleaders that I have such good humoured fun with(excusing Ruperts secret agents..idiots) know that most of this statement is true. This tragic mistake by Rupert was a definite result of his ego/pride or just his character and therefore he lost a great chance to take this club forward to greater things by one stupid failed decision..The sacking of Pearson... Alternatively the appointment of a Manager/Coach who knew the football and the CCC whilst the Dutch boys learnt their trade..

I am not even sure that Wotte has really found his feet yet even though he has been hands on with JP all season..regardless of what has been said Mr Wotte has been there with the first team squad for a long time and still not CCC savvy.

 

The only thing that makes me think its less to do with the 'crouch' appointment (although it probably did not help Pearson) was that Wilde mentioned this type of 'plan' in April of last year at the SOS meeting - it was assumed by those (well me anyway) present that it would however not see the wholesale change to nothing but youth. I agree, that if there could have been a Pearson/JP/Wotte team in place it would have been better, BUt LOwe in his determination with his income generating conveyor belt idea, seemed determined to go the whole hog - I do think that my premise that as a result we saw Schneiderlin at 1 mil come in due to potential resale value versus continuing to spend that money on the last 12 months of more expensive contracts or on purchasing players near the end of carrees with no resale value, holds true. A logical COMMERCIAL decision, but a questionable footballing one.

 

I get the luvvie tag because try and undersatnd these reasons/decisions rather than just saying hes a t*at and stupid... but dont really mind as I know where i stand on all this. ;-)

[ottery st mary]

The only thing that makes me think its less to do with the 'crouch' appointment (although it probably did not help Pearson) was that Wilde mentioned this type of 'plan' in April of last year at the SOS meeting - it was assumed by those (well me anyway) present that it would however not see the wholesale change to nothing but youth. I agree, that if there could have been a Pearson/JP/Wotte team in place it would have been better, BUt LOwe in his determination with his income generating conveyor belt idea, seemed determined to go the whole hog - I do think that my premise that as a result we saw Schneiderlin at 1 mil come in due to potential resale value versus continuing to spend that money on the last 12 months of more expensive contracts or on purchasing players near the end of carrees with no resale value, holds true. A logical COMMERCIAL decision, but a questionable footballing one.

 

I get the luvvie tag because try and undersatnd these reasons/decisions rather than just saying hes a t*at and stupid... but dont really mind as I know where i stand on all this. ;-)

 

To be honest your more of a pixie.

 

But Lowe should have sorted our problem out way back in October at the latest..Again his ego got in the way .

 

Now I am alarmed that he has not had the decency to resign/withdraw totally

from all football matters. It has not helped us that Neither Wilde or Lowe spend much time on Saints matters and the rest of his Directors are very LAME and no decision to move Rupes out to graze in his meadow.

Southampton football club for all its problems in the past is still being killed by very poor leadership from very inept Directors.

 

Hope we stay up but very doubtful..Beat Derby and QPR we are in with a shout.

Gradually working out who our true fans amongst the Luvvies Ra Ra Girls/Cheerleaders and Ruperts idiots.:cool:

 

COYR

Edited 9 March, 2009 by ottery st mary

[Sheff Saint]

'when' imo ss? And in many people's opinions it would be some achievment due to a pretty remarkable manager.

 

True! Think there's as much chance of Charlton getting out of it as there is Leicester screwing it up now. They'd even had a relative blimp before Saturday, drawing a few. Turned that around on Sat though didn't they!

[Frank's cousin]

To be honest your more of a pixie.

 

Gradually working out who our true fans amongst the Luvvies Ra Ra Girls/Cheerleaders and Ruperts idiots.:cool:

 

COYR

 

'Pixie', must be the green leggings and those shoes my Mrs bought me where the toes curl up! ;-)

 

Do you see me as more of a Ra Ra Girl? or Rupert's idiots? ;-)

[Nineteen Canteen]

 

That will be the same Lucketti who played a big role in 4 of our last 5 games which helped us stay up.

 

Playing alongside that rubbish loanee Chris Perry (wonder what happened to him after his loan period finished???) and that other waste of space loanee, Richard Wright.

 

When you look at his judicous loans at Leicester and the players he picked up for us, then having a pop at Pearson's ability to spot short term solutions isn't one of the best lines of attack,:rolleyes::---):---) but don't let that get in the way of your rants at Pearson, Crouch et al.

 

How about giving us your post-event analysis of the Poortvliet appointment and his contribution to football at Southampton and to the English game in general.

 

Did I mention anything about Perry being rubbish or Wright whom we were merely lucky to sign because of injuries to all our keepers. Do you think Pearson nobbled them to get Crouch to bring in Wright and sod the money?

 

Lucketti was a ridiculous signing if we could not make use of his previous contributions in the most important games of last season or for 50 years and you'd have thought Pearson may have picked up on a potential conflict of interest. Can we question decisions of anyone apart from Lowe and his appointments?

 

I find your overuse of smileys a little disconcerting and not sure if its your stab at humour or something altogether more sinister. Hardly fits your profile as a middle aged football fan with an alledged professional background. Each to their own but personally I find it worrying.

[SW11_Saint]

Lucketti was a ridiculous signing if we could not make use of his previous contributions in the most important games of last season or for 50 years and you'd have thought Pearson may have picked up on a potential conflict of interest. Can we question decisions of anyone apart from Lowe and his appointments?

 

I find your overuse of smileys a little disconcerting and not sure if its your stab at humour or something altogether more sinister. Hardly fits your profile as a middle aged football fan with an alledged professional background. Each to their own but personally I find it worrying.

Ridiculous because he was immense in the run in last season? Don't quite follow?

 

Would it also be rude to point out that we won the game he chose not to play in, and we stayed up?

 

You're starting to embarrass yourself now 19 - ranting and raving about anything/everything Pearson ever did, and now resorting to personal attacks on posters. Pearson is a decent hard working manager - and he kept us up - get over it.

 

Other people will have different opinions to you too - and many will be able to put their points more eloquent and logically. You need to get over that too and try to keep to making your points without resorting to personal insults, otherwise you just come across as somewhat immature...

[Frank's cousin]

The problem with these kind of threads is that the different issues become enthreaded (no pun intended), Generally, i believe if we had all been asked to assess Pearson prior to the last game of last season, we would have all been in agreement that he had done OK and at the very least got us to the point where we could survive on the last day. We did and everyone was happy. Would say 99% were also happy to have seen him stay and be given a crack.

 

Now his pros and cons have been placed in the context of 'how much better he would have done at saints instead of JP' - based in part on JPs performance, part on Pearson's subsequent success at Leicester and sadly mostly as a pawn in the Great Lowe Debate. The truth is that we would not be debating Pearson at all IF JP/Wotte had worked, or we had someone here even better - its all relative. Those championing Pearson as a solid no nonsense manager with potential are right to do so given what he has gone on to do, but it is irrelevent to the fortunes of saints, but is simply an excellent tool to highlight Lowe's 'great mistake'.

 

Its one of those arguments which is loaded from the start because Leicester are where they are and we are sadly still in the mire, yet fails to take into account the different circumstances and presumes Pearson would have been successful with Saints with the kids. He may have been, who knows, but to assume he would not have had the same restrictions re experienced players is again jumping to conclusions.

 

Its a bit sad that he has become the latest in a string of pawns in this argument, because those supporting Lowe are now undermining what he achieved with us. He kept us up, which under the circumstances was no mean feat, and its wrong to devalue that simply because the anti Lowes are using him to reinforce another percieved 'blunder'. Pearson does not deserve that.

[SW11_Saint]

If you are going to adopt a youth policy because you are hamstrung by 2 years of financial mis-management on a grand scale why shouldn't you adopt the Dutch ethos that is generally regarded as the best way to coach youth football and why our FA and many others no doubt have visited their facilities.

 

The Dutch way, will still work for us and Saejis is a signing I doubt the 20 minute Messiah could have plucked out. He would have gone looking for Lucketti and checking what other clubs he didn't want to play against before we signed on loan.

 

Perhaps you'd prefer we'd signed players like Dean Windass to keep us from the drop?

Ahem... wakey wakey... the "Dutch way" has already failed, please pay attention! The fact we now have a Dutch manager finally playing a very english formation, using our more experienced players as the spine and blending in the youngsters, shouldn't be confused with us playing "the Dutch way" with kids. Wotte has reverted to a much more sensible approach in this league - FINALLY someone has woken up to this!

 

Please don't use the "financial mismanagement" smokescreen either - incidentally started by our relegation under Lowe - mere, anti-Crouch propoganda that doesn't wash I'm afraid. Crouch is just as culpable as Lowe is, no more, no less.

 

Why are you so obsessed with Saejis? - is it just because it's the one signing that has worked? That's great, but what about all of the others who have come and gone this season? No mention of them?

 

As for signing Dean Windass - if I thought he's score a dozen goals between now and the end of the season, yes I'd sign him in a heartbeat! But then perhaps that's where we differ - I'd be prepared to make some short-term decisons to keep us up, than stick to my (misguided) principals and watch us go down. Thank God JP quit when he did otherwise I have no doubt that Lowe would still be persisting with his ridiculous experiment. Mind, you'd be happy...

[alehouseboys]

I find your overuse of smileys a little disconcerting and not sure if its your stab at humour or something altogether more sinister. Hardly fits your profile as a middle aged football fan with an alledged professional background. Each to their own but personally I find it worrying.

 

Well Mr Canteen, if you find that "worrying" you should've been on here a few months ago, there was then this weirdo called 'sundance-something-or-other' who used to come out with all sorts of bizarre stuff...you should've been there... :) :)

[Greenridge]

 

Lucketti was a ridiculous signing .

 

Really? because he wasn't able to play in one sole game, which we won by the way. His signing and contribution was one of the main reasons we stayed up. Let yourself down there a tad SB.

[Gingeletiss]

Your response is typical of those who berate what the club has tried to achieve in some very difficult circumstances. You respond with ignorance to those cicrumstances and just try to enforce your own opinions without any substance.

 

Like you never have, now and in your past existence.

 

Paul Jewell could have got Leicester promoted or even Justin Fashanu, Derak Acorah and an ashtray (Just for Tamesaint).

 

You consider that I am not of this planet but I am not the one suggesting McGoldrick was ever a good striker but recently under Wotte we have seen a different player entirely playing in a deeper role except he is not fit enough to last the 90 mins. Personally, I wouldn't have given him a 3 week contract but there you go, its probably good business with some of the signings in Lowe's absence. Bad decisions are not exclusive to Lowe as far as this club goes.

 

I am quick to use the Financial situation to justify Lowe's decision making, just as quick as you are to dismiss it because it has determined every move this club has made from the moment Lowe walked back in and he has had to make that his priority otherwise all our players would now be on the transfer list and the for sale boards up at Staplewood and Jackson's Farm. The fact you no longer feel it is relevant is not even narrow minded but bloody minded stupidity, complete ignorance or an overriding stubborn refusal, probably based in prejudice, to accept how far this club has fallen without Lowe at the helm - fact.

 

The trouble with you SB, and those like you, is the lack of history, you forget that the main reason for this dramatic fall from favor, was due entirely to your hero. As CEO, he was judged to have failed on a grand scale, and forced out by those that cared.

 

I support this club unconditionally until someone comes in with £50m and the promise of more I'll back whoever is in charge, even Crouch, who I suggested last week Lowe should invite back on the board.

 

You and several others, but this is not a workable solution, as well you know, due to the way the board is structured.

 

Hardly mirroring board policy there but you seem to only read the stuff where you misguidedly believe you can undermine my passion for this club and desire to see it survive. However, if you read my posts they are my own opinions and they are often aligned within the board ????? but often they are not. True!! True!! Is the latter my way of trying to disguise my PR identity, maybe if you are that gulliable and stupid.

 

If Crouch was chairman (god forbid) I support this club unconditionally until someone comes in with £50m and the promise of more I'll back whoever is in charge, even Crouch........ Your own words, so which is it??

 

I would never protest or boycott as what purpse does it serve without an alternative. I dislike Crouch for treating fans as donkeys, stupid enough to be mesmerised by his carrots of investment and crazy false prophecy. Crouch talked a good game but Lowe has been prepared to take the necessary and unpopular and at times wrong decisions to keep this club just about off its knees. We can only hope and support the club to ensure the efforts of the board payoff.

 

Now this is the 'out of this world' bit...Lol. You have described Lowe, but inserted Crouch's name

 

I don't have much time for Eric Daniels at the moment but having banked with his organisation for many years I am not going to create a huge amount of work and hassle for myself to move my accounts, mortgages and investments in a fit of pique because I am unhappy with some of his decisions. Am I? That would be like boycotting my football team because I don't care that much for the man in charge so choose to stop my hobby I have enjoyed for my years. Life is short and I will not falter from supporting my club. I can't wait for those ST applications to be sent out because if nothing else it will be the first poistive sign we've had in a while the club is on a slightly firmer footing.

 

He asked if you are on a different planet, the above response, just proved his point...

[JohnnyFartPants]

Use red on forums. It means you are always right!!

[ottery st mary]

Use red on forums. It means you are always right!!

 

You're right again Master.

[JohnnyFartPants]

You're right again Master.

 

I see improvements here. Well done

 

6/10

[70's Mike]

the youth route would not have worked 5 years ago when we had our best crop of youngsters, there was no way it was going to work now.

[Gemmel]

Did I mention anything about Perry being rubbish or Wright whom we were merely lucky to sign because of injuries to all our keepers. Do you think Pearson nobbled them to get Crouch to bring in Wright and sod the money?

 

Lucketti was a ridiculous signing if we could not make use of his previous contributions in the most important games of last season or for 50 years and you'd have thought Pearson may have picked up on a potential conflict of interest. Can we question decisions of anyone apart from Lowe and his appointments?

 

I find your overuse of smileys a little disconcerting and not sure if its your stab at humour or something altogether more sinister. Hardly fits your profile as a middle aged football fan with an alledged professional background. Each to their own but personally I find it worrying.

 

How little you appear to know about the footballing side of things at Saints.

 

Lucketti was able to play against Sheffield, but chose not to because we were not in a position to offer him a permenant contract, due to the fact that some muppet had called and EGM bang in the middle of a relegation battle (And would have to have gone back). So whilst your post was an attempt at attacking Crouch, may be you it should of been appaulding him, for securing the services of such a valuble player to us at that point in time and not having a clause in the loan agreement preventing him from playing against his own team.

 

Lowe and Wildes timing for calling the EGM was sickening and a perfect example of putting themselves ahead of the clubs bests interests and you have helped highlight how potentially damaging it was to our club. Thank goodness Pearson managed to get a few extra percent out of each player to cover for it

[PAULACZT]

The problem with these kind of threads is that the different issues become enthreaded (no pun intended), Generally, i believe if we had all been asked to assess Pearson prior to the last game of last season, we would have all been in agreement that he had done OK and at the very least got us to the point where we could survive on the last day. We did and everyone was happy. Would say 99% were also happy to have seen him stay and be given a crack.

 

Now his pros and cons have been placed in the context of 'how much better he would have done at saints instead of JP' - based in part on JPs performance, part on Pearson's subsequent success at Leicester and sadly mostly as a pawn in the Great Lowe Debate. The truth is that we would not be debating Pearson at all IF JP/Wotte had worked, or we had someone here even better - its all relative. Those championing Pearson as a solid no nonsense manager with potential are right to do so given what he has gone on to do, but it is irrelevent to the fortunes of saints, but is simply an excellent tool to highlight Lowe's 'great mistake'.

 

Its one of those arguments which is loaded from the start because Leicester are where they are and we are sadly still in the mire, yet fails to take into account the different circumstances and presumes Pearson would have been successful with Saints with the kids. He may have been, who knows, but to assume he would not have had the same restrictions re experienced players is again jumping to conclusions.

 

Its a bit sad that he has become the latest in a string of pawns in this argument, because those supporting Lowe are now undermining what he achieved with us. He kept us up, which under the circumstances was no mean feat, and its wrong to devalue that simply because the anti Lowes are using him to reinforce another percieved 'blunder'. Pearson does not deserve that.

 

Simple points sometimes put things in perspective...lets forget the rhetoric and taking of sides...can we consider the following...41 years..3 chairmen..6 managers (Reader,Woodford,Askham and Bates,McMenemy,Nicholl,Branfoot,Ball,Merrington....27 years in top division) and Rupert..11 years...1 Chairman/CEO/Director of Football/Farmer...11 managers (Souness,Jones,Hoddle,Gray,Strachan,Sturrock,Wigley,Redknapp,Pearson,Poortvliet,Wotte...oh and relegation from top division!!) Very sad but very true.

You can try and dress it up in any way you wish but lets be fair....unbelievable!!

[Daren W]

Did I mention anything about Perry being rubbish or Wright whom we were merely lucky to sign because of injuries to all our keepers. Do you think Pearson nobbled them to get Crouch to bring in Wright and sod the money?

 

Lucketti was a ridiculous signing if we could not make use of his previous contributions in the most important games of last season or for 50 years and you'd have thought Pearson may have picked up on a potential conflict of interest. Can we question decisions of anyone apart from Lowe and his appointments?

 

I find your overuse of smileys a little disconcerting and not sure if its your stab at humour or something altogether more sinister. Hardly fits your profile as a middle aged football fan with an alledged professional background. Each to their own but personally I find it worrying.

 

Laughable, absolutely laughable. So if Wotte signs a vital player from Forrest, he contributes greatly to the campaign but is inelligible to play at Forrest, that, by your logic, would be a ridiculous signing???

 

Are people so sad, so pathetic, so desperate to pin something against Crouch that they'll continually slate Pearson for no reason whatsoever??? So Chris Lucketti was a ridiculous signing? Just shows how very little you know about football.

 

You want ridiculous? How about any one of the numerous useless players that Poortvielt brought in, played once or twice and then sent back to their home clubs? How about Gasmi? Pulis? Pekhart?? Robertson??? And you slate Pearson for Lucketti??? Pitiful, absolutely pitiful...

 

Not one poster on here thinks Pearson was the next Alex Ferguson but he had potential. A darn sight more than the man who replaced him. He'll cut his teeth in league 1 and the Championship next season and show himself to be quite a good manager indeed and it's definitely our loss that he'll prove his worth at a club other than Saints. Our loss sadly....

 

Now ****ing grow up and leave the man alone...

[Nineteen Canteen]

the youth route would not have worked 5 years ago when we had our best crop of youngsters' date=' there was no way it was going to work now.[/quote']

 

True enough Mike but it was simply a matter of options and we had one option if the bank was going to allow us to continue trading.

[Nineteen Canteen]

How little you appear to know about the footballing side of things at Saints.

 

Lucketti was able to play against Sheffield, but chose not to because we were not in a position to offer him a permenant contract, due to the fact that some muppet had called and EGM bang in the middle of a relegation battle (And would have to have gone back). So whilst your post was an attempt at attacking Crouch, may be you it should of been appaulding him, for securing the services of such a valuble player to us at that point in time and not having a clause in the loan agreement preventing him from playing against his own team.

 

Lowe and Wildes timing for calling the EGM was sickening and a perfect example of putting themselves ahead of the clubs bests interests and you have helped highlight how potentially damaging it was to our club. Thank goodness Pearson managed to get a few extra percent out of each player to cover for it

 

 

Was their timing of calling for an AGM sickening or necessary to quickly retain control of the club in an efforts to save it. Putting Crouch in charge was like giving a very sick patient a placebo IMO. What part of your posts are to do with the footballing side of things as you seem to be talking about contracts and EGM's and other off the field matters. See Me

[View From The Top]

True enough Mike but it was simply a matter of options and we had one option if the bank was going to allow us to continue trading.

 

Strange that our finances are in a similar, if not worse position and yet we've managed to ditch the disastrous Dutch experiment so clearly the bank didn't consider it our one and only option.

[um pahars]

True enough Mike but it was simply a matter of options and we had one option if the bank was going to allow us to continue trading.

 

What about the option to retain Pearson and not employ the farcial Revolutionary Coaching Set Up?

 

What about the option not to buy Schneiderlin and instead use that money to perhaps fund some more experienced players?

 

What about the option not to bring in Robertson, Pekhart, Gasmi, Pulis, Forecast, Smith etc etc etc and instead use that money to fund some players who really would contribute to the team?

 

What about the option of using some of the existing players rather than freezing them out?

 

What about the options of playing more traditional tatcis as opposed to the flop that was Totale Voetball?

 

What about the option of putting out a side under a manager who knew what he was doing, winning some games and getting more bums on seats and therefore getting more revenue???

 

Yeah, you're right, there was only way of going about this and it involved appointing a manager more at home in the Wessex League who knew fck all about the English game and led us to the brink of relegation and subsequent administration:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Forget options, Total Voetball just had to happen:---):smt017

[Nineteen Canteen]

Laughable, absolutely laughable. So if Wotte signs a vital player from Forrest, he contributes greatly to the campaign but is inelligible to play at Forrest, that, by your logic, would be a ridiculous signing???

 

Are people so sad, so pathetic, so desperate to pin something against Crouch that they'll continually slate Pearson for no reason whatsoever??? So Chris Lucketti was a ridiculous signing? Just shows how very little you know about football.

 

You want ridiculous? How about any one of the numerous useless players that Poortvielt brought in, played once or twice and then sent back to their home clubs? How about Gasmi? Pulis? Pekhart?? Robertson??? And you slate Pearson for Lucketti??? Pitiful, absolutely pitiful...

 

Not one poster on here thinks Pearson was the next Alex Ferguson but he had potential. A darn sight more than the man who replaced him. He'll cut his teeth in league 1 and the Championship next season and show himself to be quite a good manager indeed and it's definitely our loss that he'll prove his worth at a club other than Saints. Our loss sadly....

 

Now ****ing grow up and leave the man alone...

 

No need to get boisterous just because you don't agree with my opinion that Wotte is far superior manager to Pearson and that shall be proven next season. Remind me why Pearson signed Wright? Did he identify a goalkeeping weakness in our squad or did he kneejerk to the unprecedented event of all 3 keepers being injured at the same time. IMO that one freak event kept us up more than any influence Pearson had and we continue to overlook the talent of Pericard. Pearson also overlooked all the talent in our youth and play the balance of youth and experience we all seem to agree on. Gillett and Lallana were given bit parts and should have been used more for a manager so keen on Youth.

 

Do you accept Lucketti was our only option to take a CB on loan instead of signing an even better player who could at least be available for all remaining games. Gemmel talks about the fact we couldn't give him a contract because of the fact Lowe requested the EGM but doesn't it cross anyone's mind that we didn't have a pot to **** in by them and the EGM was a convienient smokescreen for Crouch to throw up?

 

Compare Leicester to Leeds I don't think the former started off with -29 points did they? Also a big result on Saturday to stop the decline in results against a team bottom of the league and every player on the transfer list. Blimey Weymouth could give Cheltenham a game at the moment.

 

People need to start looking at stats and facts in context of todays world and the introduction of Sky TV if we are going to compare the past 12 years with the previous 50!

[PAULACZT]

Was their timing of calling for an AGM sickening or necessary to quickly retain control of the club in an efforts to save it. Putting Crouch in charge was like giving a very sick patient a placebo IMO. What part of your posts are to do with the footballing side of things as you seem to be talking about contracts and EGM's and other off the field matters. See Me

 

all of my previous post was football related but you choose to ignore.....forget Crouch....Askham giving Lowe control all those years ago was like giving a very healthy patient a doctor called Crippen, 19 justify what the mans footballing decisions have done to this football club...count the years then count the managers, simple equation which equals failure in anyones language. In 41 years this club had 6 managers and 3 chairmen...on Ruperts watch count them!

Please try and justify his total failure in charge of our club...cue stadium,catering etc., but do a bit of homework and find out his win percentage whilst in charge as opposed to the previous gentlemen in charge...I think it will open your eyes and maybe your mind to what being the chairman/CEO/Director of Football is all about in a professional football club....come on extend my mind a little.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Strange that our finances are in a similar, if not worse position and yet we've managed to ditch the disastrous Dutch experiment so clearly the bank didn't consider it our one and only option.

 

Strange you ignore the fact we had to off load as many off our high earners as posisble before we got to today's point to reduce costs and allow Saga back. Strange you also ignore the fact that we have entered a recession since August, credit is even tighter and bank chairmen are being called to account for their actions in front of the Treasury Select Committee. Perhaps their aversion to risk is even gretaer and perhaps we all need to stop looking at the decisions made at this club solely in isolation to your own unreasonable expectations.

[Whitey Grandad]

Strange you ignore the fact we had to off load as many off our high earners as posisble before we got to today's point to reduce costs and allow Saga back. Strange you also ignore the fact that we have entered a recession since August, credit is even tighter and bank chairmen are being called to account for their actions in front of the Treasury Select Committee. Perhaps their aversion to risk is even gretaer and perhaps we all need to stop looking at the decisions made at this club solely in isolation to your own unreasonable expectations.

Whichever way you look at it, whatever slant you try to put on it, from any point of view, it is quite patently bad management.

[Gemmel]

 

Do you accept Lucketti was our only option to take a CB on loan instead of signing an even better player who could at least be available for all remaining games. Gemmel talks about the fact we couldn't give him a contract because of the fact Lowe requested the EGM but doesn't it cross anyone's mind that we didn't have a pot to **** in by them and the EGM was a convienient smokescreen for Crouch to throw up?

 

 

Remind ,me how many other players we have bought in since ...... ok well make it easy how many centre halfs.

 

I would like to find another Saints fan (Not on crack cocaine) that things Lucketti was a terrible signing. Might be best if you stick to knitting

[Nineteen Canteen]

all of my previous post was football related but you choose to ignore.....forget Crouch....Askham giving Lowe control all those years ago was like giving a very healthy patient a doctor called Crippen, 19 justify what the mans footballing decisions have done to this football club...count the years then count the managers, simple equation which equals failure in anyones language. In 41 years this club had 6 managers and 3 chairmen...on Ruperts watch count them!

Please try and justify his total failure in charge of our club...cue stadium,catering etc., but do a bit of homework and find out his win percentage whilst in charge as opposed to the previous gentlemen in charge...I think it will open your eyes and maybe your mind to what being the chairman/CEO/Director of Football is all about in a professional football club....come on extend my mind a little.

 

Times change as do expectations. We live in the era of the information super highway and demands on us all are many many times greater than 50 years ago. Your question is so completely out of context its about as relevant as asking me why Ford don't make the Zodiac anymore or why we have such high gas bills?

[Whitey Grandad]

Times change as do expectations. We live in the era of the information super highway and demands on us all are many many times greater than 50 years ago. Your question is so completely out of context its about as relevant as asking me why Ford don't make the Zodiac anymore or why we have such high gas bills?

Bad management at the highest level?

[View From The Top]

Strange you ignore the fact we had to off load as many off our high earners as posisble before we got to today's point to reduce costs and allow Saga back. Strange you also ignore the fact that we have entered a recession since August, credit is even tighter and bank chairmen are being called to account for their actions in front of the Treasury Select Committee. Perhaps their aversion to risk is even gretaer and perhaps we all need to stop looking at the decisions made at this club solely in isolation to your own unreasonable expectations.

 

So things are worse but the bank is being more liberal despite their aversion to risk in the current climate by allowing us to ditch the crazy Dutch experiment.

 

Just goes to show that the bank also thought it was the road to ruin.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Remind ,me how many other players we have bought in since ...... ok well make it easy how many centre halfs.

 

I would like to find another Saints fan (Not on crack cocaine) that things Lucketti was a terrible signing. Might be best if you stick to knitting

 

Perry, Saejis, Jack Cork could have stayed but preferred Watford - more fool him. My point may I remind you is why bring in a player for your last few games and not make sure he is ok to play in all of them. It's not as though we had another 46 games to play.

 

Pearson will go the same way as Ince, Cotterill, Holloway, Jewell and so many other promising managers. Even Burley lived off his Ipswich success and has done nothing since. If Pearson adopts the same style at leicester as he did here they will struggle. Div 1 is a poor league. Sorry if that upsets you all but that is my opinion.

[PAULACZT]

Strange you ignore the fact we had to off load as many off our high earners as posisble before we got to today's point to reduce costs and allow Saga back. Strange you also ignore the fact that we have entered a recession since August, credit is even tighter and bank chairmen are being called to account for their actions in front of the Treasury Select Committee. Perhaps their aversion to risk is even gretaer and perhaps we all need to stop looking at the decisions made at this club solely in isolation to your own unreasonable expectations.

 

strange that you just dont understand the basics of operating as a professional football club...the Chairman/CEO/Director of Football/Farmer/Buck stops with me person appoints the manager...the club tries to win football matches...the more the club wins the more success it reaps....the more matches it wins it gains more supporters and fills the stadium...the more supporters that attend gives the club more revenue...the chairman then presides over a successful club and everybody basks in the warm glow of 'total' football......however....if you try 11 managers in as many years....19 canteen you know the rest! The most amazing thing is he and Guy Askham still actually believe they know how to run a 'successful' football club...oops did I mention our Mr Burns in the background? He must be so very proud of the success they have both made of our Saints...or maybe not!

[Give it to Ron]

My point may I remind you is why bring in a player for your last few games and not make sure he is ok to play in all of them. It's not as though we had another 46 games to play.

 

Pearson will go the same way as Ince, Cotterill, Holloway, Jewell and so many other promising managers. Even Burley lived off his Ipswich success and has done nothing since. If Pearson adopts the same style at leicester as he did here they will struggle. Div 1 is a poor league. Sorry if that upsets you all but that is my opinion.

 

Yeah fancy signing a player that is not eligible....actually you just proved you know jack****e...he was available but decided not to play as he had a massive conflict of interests but whats the problem anyway as you said he was rubbish anyway.

 

I mean we would never sign anyone under loveable old rosey cheeks would we that was never available...like Tin Man and remind me again how many games Pulis has actually played in his career?

 

 

Its Ok I hear Pearson is jettisoning his winning approach and going for the very successful Dutch Total Football that has stormed the CCC this season.

Pearson lost only 3 games.....Wotte has lost 2 so far in a shorter span of games....I'll be back to remind you.

[Nineteen Canteen]

So things are worse but the bank is being more liberal despite their aversion to risk in the current climate by allowing us to ditch the crazy Dutch experiment.

 

Just goes to show that the bank also thought it was the road to ruin.

 

??? Did I say the bank are being more liberal? Costs have increased through Saejis and Saga but crowds have increased and we have not added to our cost base by replacing JP externally.

 

IMO the bank have thought we were on the road to ruin this time last year and its only the timely intervention of Lowe and Wilde that has saved us until now but I still believe administration is 50/50 as the bank don't want the unsecured overdraft on their books who will want to ramp up costs significantly that teh club can't support them.

 

That unsecured borrowing is nothing to do with Lowe he is just trying to manage the situation hence his silence IMO and events on the pitch may still be superfluous by decisions at Barclays. You just need to read between the lines and other key signals. Trouble is most can't see them because of their blind hatred of the man trying to save us.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Bad management at the highest level?

 

Whitey the point i was trying to make was gas wasn't such a widely used commodity 50 - 60 years ago. Was it? (I wasn't born)

[Gemmel]

Perry, Saejis, Jack Cork could have stayed but preferred Watford - more fool him. My point may I remind you is why bring in a player for your last few games and not make sure he is ok to play in all of them. It's not as though we had another 46 games to play.

 

Pearson will go the same way as Ince, Cotterill, Holloway, Jewell and so many other promising managers. Even Burley lived off his Ipswich success and has done nothing since. If Pearson adopts the same style at leicester as he did here they will struggle. Div 1 is a poor league. Sorry if that upsets you all but that is my opinion.

 

You forgot the new Micheal Svennson :D:D

[Nineteen Canteen]

Yeah fancy signing a player that is not eligible....actually you just proved you know jack****e...he was available but decided not to play as he had a massive conflict of interests but whats the problem anyway as you said he was rubbish anyway.

 

I mean we would never sign anyone under loveable old rosey cheeks would we that was never available...like Tin Man and remind me again how many games Pulis has actually played in his career?

 

 

Its Ok I hear Pearson is jettisoning his winning approach and going for the very successful Dutch Total Football that has stormed the CCC this season.

Pearson lost only 3 games.....Wotte has lost 2 so far in a shorter span of games....I'll be back to remind you.

 

Who said eligible? I said available and Gemmel suggested it was because of contracts talks stalled because of Lowe's call for the EGM. Please read previous posts.

[Whitey Grandad]

Whitey the point i was trying to make was gas wasn't such a widely used commodity 50 - 60 years ago. Was it? (I wasn't born)

North Sea gas started to be introduced in the early sixties replacing coal gas which was ubiquitous until then. Most houses didn't have central heating relying instead on coal which was delivered by 'coalmen'. The streets in my patch of North London were lit by gas lamps, as indeed were many houses.

 

My point was that the high price that we are now paying for gas - and other energy sources - is due in a large part to poor management at government levels. Bad management is one thing that Britain is still good at, and it is especially evident in the recent history of SFC.