SaintRichmond Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 Just for the record, it's not my "argument" it was a semi-hypothetical question. I actually agree with the supplementary "why Poortvliet?" question and indeed have asked it many times without any ITK replies... You could ask Johnny FartPants ..... he has all the meaningful answers .... " p off " was the one he advised me of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 Thank you for your usual articulate, fact full, and well reasoned response .. Does that mean you think Lowe planned it all to come out like it has ?? No, it means you left the "p" out of a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARCELONASAINT Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 I have a question that's bugging me.... Who introduced Poortvliet to Lowe in the first place? (a) Wotte ? (b) van der Waals ? © "someone else" ? We know that Lowe wanted to give Wotte a crack of the whip 3 years ago before turning to Burley, and that Wotte fancied the job at he time. We also know that Wotte didn't want the 'head coach' job this time around (for some unknown reason) but I assume Lowe offered him the job again this time last year whilst hatching his comeback plan. So who suggested Poortvliet to Lowe as an alternative head coach to Wotte? (I doubt Lowe knew of Poortvliet directly) From having spoken to Van der Waals it was my impression that Poortvliet was introduced to Lowe by Van der Walls. When we spoke he talked about Lowe's failure to get his man in before (WOTTE) Reading between the lines Poortvliet was a compromise for whoever Lowe was trying to placate....Michael Wilde???? I very much think LOWE now has who he wanted all along!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 I've just spent over half hour reading back again through the OS articles published at the time that the "Dutch Duo" were installed and it's quite clear that Lowe and Wilde were promoting and endorsing the on pitch tactics as well as the overall infrastructure changes. IMHO of course You could be right but the tactics were ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 6 March, 2009 From having spoken to Van der Waals it was my impression that Poortvliet was introduced to Lowe by Van der Walls. When we spoke he talked about Lowe's failure to get his man in before (WOTTE) Reading between the lines Poortvliet was a compromise for whoever Lowe was trying to placate....Michael Wilde???? I very much think LOWE now has who he wanted all along!!! Which begs the follow up question...."Who introduce van der Waals to Lowe?" Pullis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 No matter how you spin it, Lowe identifed Wotte as a very useful employee and has simply instigated a bit of succession planning. Ability to turn around a false move is the art of good management as oppose to simply talking up false hope and then start praying knowing you've risked it all. No, the art of good management is to get the right people in the right positions - improve their skills so that they move on to bigger & better things. Succession planning is about having someone with the skills and some experience ready to replace that key top performer when they do leave. It is not putting the 'right' person into a job that he should have had whilst you've had someone incompetant in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 No, the art of good management is to get the right people in the right positions - improve their skills so that they move on to bigger & better things. Succession planning is about having someone with the skills and some experience ready to replace that key top performer when they do leave. It is not putting the 'right' person into a job that he should have had whilst you've had someone incompetant in their place. Thank God someone has finally explained to 19C what proper "succession planning" is!!! Loved his use of the phrase "you've risked it all" - I can think of no better description of Lowe's M.O. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Saint Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 And no truer word will be said on this forum, whilst both sides of the fence engage in a ****ing competition, the club is slowly begining to turn a corner and get itself out of the godalmighty pile of ****e that it's been in for the last four years. I'm not sure that I like Mark Wotte. I find him cold, arrogant and immensely fan-unfriendly. I think his comments about the protesters was ill-timed rubbish and I wish to god he'd just stick to management as it obviously appears that that is his main strength. But whilst I don't particularly like him, he's the right man at the right place at the right time... right now. Was Lowe closer than to being right than we give him credit for? Absolutely not. There is a fine line between balancing the books and keeping the football ticking along. By getting rid of Pearson and relying on kids, Lowe made a most calamitous mistake. People may mock Alan Hansen for saying you'll win nothing with kids but he unfortunately refered to a once in a generation selection of young footballers. You certainly won't get out of this league by playing just kids, you need a blend, half and half. A strong spine of established pros who know the score and can help make the youngsters better players with that experience. By throwing the youngsters to the wolves I think Lowe has put back the development of some players who have suffered the burdon of expectation. The likes of Drew Surman and Adam Lallana have had huge pressure put on them and god only knows what the long term effects of the boos and jeers will have on the other young lads. Too much, way too soon. Lowe was wrong, end of. He dumped a talented coach and quite unbeliveably put his trust in a nice guy but a nice guy with nowhere near enough experience of English football. People can harp on all they want but the fact that Pearson has gone on to be very successful at Leicester shows that he is a good coach and yes we did miss out. Six months wasted. In the meantime, why can't we just revel in the glory of three hugely impressive wins on the bounce, not be smug, not be bitter and just be Saints fans? Please? Apologies for not seeing this earlier but it's post of the week imo. Thanks Daren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 6 March, 2009 Share Posted 6 March, 2009 Leave it out. We are 2 points adrift in the drop zone and have Birmingham away. In the unlikely event that we stay up this season I won't be thanking Lowe. There is no way forward for the club with him in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Leave it out. We are 2 points adrift in the drop zone and have Birmingham away. In the unlikely event that we stay up this season I won't be thanking Lowe. There is no way forward for the club with him in charge. Surely the only way forward for this club is success on the pitch. if we get that, does it really matter how or who is in the boardroom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Surely the only way forward for this club is success on the pitch. if we get that' date=' does it really matter how or who is in the boardroom?[/quote'] In th short term yes, but in the long term I think we all know that Lowe will screw things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Surely the only way forward for this club is success on the pitch. if we get that' date=' does it really matter how or who is in the boardroom?[/quote'] So are you saying the two aren't linked Frank????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Surely the only way forward for this club is success on the pitch. if we get that' date=' does it really matter how or who is in the boardroom?[/quote'] Whilst I agree with the analogy. This season has proved beyond all doubt in my mind that the board should stay in the boardroom & out of team affairs. I'm well aware we had to make savings getting rid on loan of a number of our higher pay'ed players but to not allow a manager to play from the squad left is just hamstringing him. There is no problem with the idea of seamless team play throughout the club & bringing youth through etc. But the way we did it this season was to much too soon for a lot of our promising youngsters, also the number of poor low quality loan players which we've now got rid of, which seems (cost wise) to have enabled us to play a couple more of our more experienced players has made all the difference. So the answer to the original question is NO Lowe has abandoned his master plan & was nowhere near being right with it in the first place. As we've gone back to a tried & tested system which appears to suit our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Surely the only way forward for this club is success on the pitch. if we get that' date=' does it really matter how or who is in the boardroom?[/quote'] And you don't get success on the pitch without sound management and stability off of it - neither of which we get with Lowe. Let's also ensure we understand what "success" means. This year it will again mean '4th bottom' sadly, but that should not and will not be the measure going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Surely the only way forward for this club is success on the pitch. if we get that' date=' does it really matter how or who is in the boardroom?[/quote'] Doh!!!!! As long as the men in the Boardroom are appointing duffers who are out of their depth, as long as they implement a failed strategy and as long as they are involved in decision making, then it will impact directly on what happens on the pitch. As we have seen this season, what happens in the Boardroom is intrinsically linked to what happens on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Wotte has said it before and he says it again in todays Echo "This board has been excellent for me and the way I work.......not interfering with my tactics or decisions whatsovever" "From the day I that I started the board have been very very suportive and has never interfered in any decision. I don't think they did ith Jan" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Surely the only way forward for this club is success on the pitch. if we get that' date=' does it really matter how or who is in the boardroom?[/quote'] totally true. The only thing is can we get success on the pitch with this, or next board? There would be no protests against Lowe if we were in the promotion race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 7 March, 2009 Share Posted 7 March, 2009 Wotte has said it before and he says it again in todays Echo "This board has been excellent for me and the way I work.......not interfering with my tactics or decisions whatsovever" "From the day I that I started the board have been very very suportive and has never interfered in any decision. I don't think they did ith Jan" As if each decision about playing senior pros or loaning in second rate loans was the choice of coach JP..Not in my opinion or that of some close to JP. We will not hear the full story of who was running the show whilst JP was allegedly in charge of first team affairs. Anyway others close to Rupert will say it was for financial decisions and JP knew the score and had to deal with his hand..In my opinion he would love to have the free range that Wotte is now given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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