Was Lowe a lot closer to being right than we give him credit for?

[um pahars]

Now you have me thinking... how about our next manager is appointed via an "It's a Knockout" type game! Rupert has to cycle - wearing flippers and a snorkel - with a huge effigy of McMenemy (holding the FA Cup) on his shoulders to a circular swimming pool. He then swims out to a greased platform in the middle and Wilde, Askham, Cowan etc. (all blindfolded) throw beach balls to him with pictures of various managerial candidates on them. Which ever one he is able to catch and hold on to (without slipping off the platform) by the time Stuart Hall blows the whistle is the winner, and is appointed our next coach.

 

They then all troop off to a press conference to talk about our new winning "strategy".

 

Given his recent dabble with the continent, it would of course have to be the Jeux Sans Frontieres version;)

 

And don't forget he would need to catch two beachballs, just in case the the manager on the first one goes tts up a few months down the line.

 

Trois, deux, un!!!!!!!!!

 

Then again not sure Eurosceptic Lowe would partake in such a federal game invented by Charles De Gaulle!!!!!

[sidthesquid]

Boring boring

Read what I say -

1 Relegation was a lot of people's faults. Personally I hold Redflaps mostly accountable, but that doesn't excuse Lowe

2 Of course its down to results etc but the economy hasn't helped either

3 I still bought into the Poortvliet plan & it sounds like you did, too & I fully accept it failed which is why he left

4 Does anybody know exactly why Pearson left? We all have a theory and that was MY point, yet everyone presents it as fact. I NEVER claimed I knew what happened - read first, don't jump to conclusions. I know exactly the same as you do about it

I try to have a discussion on here with people & I read what they say first, not just go off another one on their own agenda

could you read what I wrote earlier - I have copied it for you - & then show me where I excuse Lowe or support him

 

I just get so, so bored of people on here trying to rewrite history all the time & going on and on about bloody relegation just to suit their own agendas

I genuinely do not believe I have an agenda beyond trying to get my point of view across. I think Lowe has blown it and can never re-unite the club, but I also think Crouch blew all his legitamacy, too. I genuinely just don't care that much who is in the boardroom & the less I know about them the happier I am, but I seem to end up on here defending Lowe because so much cr*p gets talked about him to keep other people's endless negative agendas going. As discussed endlessly there are a long list of people at fault for relegation and I am bored of reading about it, likewise the financial problems. They're all a bunch of c*nts in the boardroom & they all need to go.

[Fan The Flames]

You ignore the basic premise with which I begin and which underpins everything I wrote: this season was always going to be about cutting costs and hoping to survive, both fiscally (in the first place) and in the CCC. In insisting on blaming Lowe for our precarious position, you give the man WAY too much credit: we are where we are in great part because we were (and likely still are) on the verge of economic meltdown, and drastic cost-cutting measures had to be taken...

 

Crouch started the cost cutting the season before and would have continued if Wilde hadn't swung, but I bet we didn't need to get rid of all the experienced players to survive.

 

The drastic cost cutting exercise was just a vehicle to play the kids, whilst having a pop at Crouch and coming out as the saviour of the Saints.

 

Therefore we start the analysis from very different places, yours he deserves credit mine he deserves running out of town. This is why there will always be this gulf between views and this discussion will continue ad infinitum.

[saintwarwick]

Crouch started the cost cutting the season before and would have continued if Wilde hadn't swung, but I bet we didn't need to get rid of all the experienced players to survive.

 

The drastic cost cutting exercise was just a vehicle to play the kids, whilst having a pop at Crouch and coming out as the saviour of the Saints.

 

Therefore we start the analysis from very different places, yours he deserves credit mine he deserves running out of town. This is why there will always be this gulf between views and this discussion will continue ad infinitum.

 

Whoever took over this season would of been in the same scenario we are now in and that is cutting costs. We are skint and needed to cut costs, we offloaded out of contract players/players sold/retired players which reduced the wage bill. Getting rid of the high earners on loan who were still on the books was another way to cut costs along with the shutting down of the corners and free bus rides. However I would say that some of the experienced players kept on should of started games from day one, playing kids clearly did not work as expected.

[Mole]

Whoever took over this season would of been in the same scenario we are now in and that is cutting costs. We are skint and needed to cut costs, we offloaded out of contract players/players sold/retired players which reduced the wage bill. Getting rid of the high earners on loan who were still on the books was another way to cut costs along with the shutting down of the corners and free bus rides. However I would say that some of the experienced players kept on should of started games from day one, playing kids clearly did not work as expected.

 

Would you say the signing on fee and wages of Schniederlin was less that the expense of playing Saga all season?

[NickG]

probably got loan fees in for Rasiak/John and Saga

[Fan The Flames]

probably got loan fees in for Rasiak/John and Saga

 

I doubt it.

[saintwarwick]

Would you say the signing on fee and wages of Schniederlin was less that the expense of playing Saga all season?

 

Yes

[saintwarwick]

I doubt it.

 

Maybe/maybe not but we certainly saved a lot in wages we did not have to pay whilst out on loan.

[Whitey Grandad]

Maybe/maybe not but we certainly saved a lot in wages we did not have to pay whilst out on loan.

We also saved a lot of goals. If we don't want him and don't want to play him then why did we buy him?

[redder freak]

We're all very quick to criticise Lowe on here (and justifyably so in many cases) but IF Wotte and the team he is now building proves to be a winning formular then, in reality, Lowe wasn't a million miles away from getting things right, was he?

 

It's a very thin line between success and failure.

[Nineteen Canteen]

NC Wotton is injured and i would to tell you he like KD is magnificent in bringing the team spirit together.SG deserves his place and there is no animosity because of that.

I remember HR complaining that we had a quiet dressing room and under GB that carried on.KD PW BWP have got the dressing room full of laughter and spirit,a togetherness that an the old style English clubs got that little extra. I have not put this before as i thought some may scoff and make fun of before the fans could see how the morale had lifted a lttle ,but the team also do a huddle with the close staff in the dressing room before they go out onto the pitch. ALL the bits iam hearing from the dressing room are of a determination and togetherness. The players may not adore Wotte but they are growing to respect him and his methods.Have you noticed the way the team actually seem top know what they are doing and what they are supposed to be doing? A plan is being played to and so the players gain a belief not a confusion that was there until recently.

We as Churchill said are not at the beginning of the end but perhaps are at the end of the beginning.(ps i do realise i am preaching to the converted)

 

Didn't realise Wotton was injured just thought he was being kept out of the side by a younger player who seems to have found some spirit and belief. You are preaching to the converted but don't worry its good to read something positive that supports my own assessment of the situation.

 

I have had a few bosses in my time and respected many and adored none, apart from the wife. Wotte and probably Svensson have made a big difference but I don't think the contribution of KD should be overlooked nor the impact of Saeijs has had on the team - an inspired signing. I would like to see BWP given a start down the right as despite his efforts its not coming off for Lallana at the moment.

 

I hope your right about the end of the beginning and on the pitch I am quietly confident that the Wotte way will deliver. However, I remain very concerned about the financial situation and that Lowe's silence is deafening coupled with Wilde's comments in the programme, no ST renewals landing yet in NW Hants and stewards alledgedly only being paid on a one week basis. I don't know if the stewards rumour is 100% accurate but although my source was credible and has the right contacts in the game I don't know how stewards are normally paid. i.e monthly, weekly or under what type of contract. Taking that out of the equation we can only hope improved performances lead to increased attendances and revenues because financially I sense we are more precarious than Charlton's league position.

[um pahars]

Taking that out of the equation we can only hope improved performances lead to increased attendances and revenues because financially I sense we are more precarious than Charlton's league position.

 

I quite agree that we can only hope that this mini revival consolidates into something stronger and we start to see benefits on and off the pitch.

 

In last seasons run in, attendances went up under Crouch, so hopefully we can replicate that again this year.

[Legod Third Coming]

Boring boring

Read what I say -

1 Relegation was a lot of people's faults. Personally I hold Redflaps mostly accountable, but that doesn't excuse Lowe

2 Of course its down to results etc but the economy hasn't helped either

3 I still bought into the Poortvliet plan & it sounds like you did, too & I fully accept it failed which is why he left

4 Does anybody know exactly why Pearson left? We all have a theory and that was MY point, yet everyone presents it as fact. I NEVER claimed I knew what happened - read first, don't jump to conclusions. I know exactly the same as you do about it

I try to have a discussion on here with people & I read what they say first, not just go off another one on their own agenda

could you read what I wrote earlier - I have copied it for you - & then show me where I excuse Lowe or support him

 

I just get so, so bored of people on here trying to rewrite history all the time & going on and on about bloody relegation just to suit their own agendas

I genuinely do not believe I have an agenda beyond trying to get my point of view across. I think Lowe has blown it and can never re-unite the club, but I also think Crouch blew all his legitamacy, too. I genuinely just don't care that much who is in the boardroom & the less I know about them the happier I am, but I seem to end up on here defending Lowe because so much cr*p gets talked about him to keep other people's endless negative agendas going. As discussed endlessly there are a long list of people at fault for relegation and I am bored of reading about it, likewise the financial problems. They're all a bunch of c*nts in the boardroom & they all need to go.

 

 

Then we agree at last!

[NickG]

I doubt it.

 

seem to remember it mentioned at least for one of them in reports

[OldNick]

Get a grip mate - diazepam, alcahol, whacky-backy... take your pick.

 

No rants, just plain questions which you don't appear to be able to answer.

 

Your line sounds like the government - it was all someone else's fault.

 

All of the arguments in support of Lowe don't add up. Hell, even I wanted to give the guy a chance when he came back but look at the state we're in.

 

How can you keep extending him rope when he's hanging the lot of us?

 

Ok, for the last time - but this is it:

 

1. Forget relegation - hard to, since IT is the root cause of our financial plight. Yes usually managers get the blame. But when you have been through 10 in 10 seasons and 3 in one season... You don't lay that at Lowe's door?? In which case, whose fault was it, the bogeyman?

 

2. The share price - collapsing because of the 'depression'. Sure. I see Astra Zeneca's market capitalisation has halved too...oh wait... no it hasn't... Just the banks which have been equally appallingly run...

 

3. The JP experiment was a good thing/necessary?? How?

 

4. Pearson wanted to go? Was too expensive? Hmmm. Says whom? Even if he was, why appoint a totally unproven nonentity from Holland with the equivalent of Blue Sq experience? Why not relent and understand that MANAGERS make football clubs not Chairman or boards, good m-a-n-a-g-e-r-s... not rocket science... Why not appoint Nick Holmes? He has the same qualification as JP (a man I actually liked a great deal).

 

Oh I'm bored now, I feel like I'm talking to my nephew with a broken vase in his hand telling me it leapt off the shelf and landed on the floor already broken, and that his drop-kick from the hallway simply hit it on the way down...

Souness walked out, said to be unhappy at transfer budget, (RL denied that he had been told any budget) immediately walks into benfica job.No interview process just straight in..odd that

Dave Jones. Now tell me how RL could have kept him on? We have the Mc Donalds family centre, Ford acadamy (at that time) parents deciding whether to send their young lads to play in our acadamy, the players having their own kids, and then the Police drip drip of new offences being aimed at him. Even the fans who were supportive, in the main started to question as the 2nd raft of 10's of offences were published.No company would have been able to have kept him as manager, and at least we offered to support him during that time.

Hoddle. Do i need to say more?

Gray. He had the opportunity to go with the rest who GH had taken away but turned him down as he was loyal to the club. RL rewarded that loyalty by giving him the job.i wasnt too impressed but there is nothing wrong in rewarding loyalty.RL was decisive in replacing him when things were looking bad.

WGS again he stated when he came that he would only be here for 3 years as he promised his wife so.WGS a man of his word carried that out.The news of him leaving destabilised the club and we couldnt get someone ready and it was all public , the results went on a steep decline, relegation form in fact.RL wished for GH to return, i like many others voiced our disgust.

Sturrock, was a brave/reckless decision similar to keane/Ince appontments.PS has statd recently that the pressure was too much for him and so he resigned.

Left again in the lurch Wigley was installed. He had rave reviews what he had achievedin the reserve set up, and glowing reports from the playing staff. Hit by a terrible run of injuries (a very unlucky period in time, 2-1 away at Arsenal in the injury time and van Persie hit a fantastic equaliser, Niemi injured pre the vital WBA game and his replacement makes 2 howlers and we only draw)he is replaced, perhaps too late but still over 20 games left.

HR an exciting appointment, the fans in the main were overjoyed we were to be saved, and should have been.

Basset/Wise caretaker. Showed nothing that they could improve things and after his outburst shwed why Wise would not be the man for us.

GB again welcomed by the fanbase.Left under LC again walked out on the club, no fault of ours.

NP taken on a short term contract(not immediately negotiated for longer by regime of time). Did adequate job, saved on last day, but united the fanbase.RL decides he wishes to use his own appointment

.

Jan under severe financial restraint, for long periods nearly worked.left too long before being nudges.

Wotte???

All those appointments you have to go back to the time and assess the clubs position. If the fsans had had their way NONE of the appointments would have happened.(perhaps Hoddle and GB)

[Whitey Grandad]

Souness walked out, said to be unhappy at transfer budget, (RL denied that he had been told any budget) immediately walks into benfica job.No interview process just straight in..odd that

Dave Jones. Now tell me how RL could have kept him on? We have the Mc Donalds family centre, Ford acadamy (at that time) parents deciding whether to send their young lads to play in our acadamy, the players having their own kids, and then the Police drip drip of new offences being aimed at him. Even the fans who were supportive, in the main started to question as the 2nd raft of 10's of offences were published.No company would have been able to have kept him as manager, and at least we offered to support him during that time.

Hoddle. Do i need to say more?

Gray. He had the opportunity to go with the rest who GH had taken away but turned him down as he was loyal to the club. RL rewarded that loyalty by giving him the job.i wasnt too impressed but there is nothing wrong in rewarding loyalty.RL was decisive in replacing him when things were looking bad.

WGS again he stated when he came that he would only be here for 3 years as he promised his wife so.WGS a man of his word carried that out.The news of him leaving destabilised the club and we couldnt get someone ready and it was all public , the results went on a steep decline, relegation form in fact.RL wished for GH to return, i like many others voiced our disgust.

Sturrock, was a brave/reckless decision similar to keane/Ince appontments.PS has statd recently that the pressure was too much for him and so he resigned.

Left again in the lurch Wigley was installed. He had rave reviews what he had achievedin the reserve set up, and glowing reports from the playing staff. Hit by a terrible run of injuries (a very unlucky period in time, 2-1 away at Arsenal in the injury time and van Persie hit a fantastic equaliser, Niemi injured pre the vital WBA game and his replacement makes 2 howlers and we only draw)he is replaced, perhaps too late but still over 20 games left.

HR an exciting appointment, the fans in the main were overjoyed we were to be saved, and should have been.

Basset/Wise caretaker. Showed nothing that they could improve things and after his outburst shwed why Wise would not be the man for us.

GB again welcomed by the fanbase.Left under LC again walked out on the club, no fault of ours.

NP taken on a short term contract(not immediately negotiated for longer by regime of time). Did adequate job, saved on last day, but united the fanbase.RL decides he wishes to use his own appointment

.

Jan under severe financial restraint, for long periods nearly worked.left too long before being nudges.

Wotte???

All those appointments you have to go back to the time and assess the clubs position. If the fsans had had their way NONE of the appointments would have happened.(perhaps Hoddle and GB)

Resigned did he??? He had just moved into a new house and as he said to someone who spoke to him at the time he was having carpets fitted: "I think they're trying to get me out" That sounds different to me.

[Legod Third Coming]

Souness walked out, said to be unhappy at transfer budget, (RL denied that he had been told any budget) immediately walks into benfica job.No interview process just straight in..odd that

Dave Jones. Now tell me how RL could have kept him on? We have the Mc Donalds family centre, Ford acadamy (at that time) parents deciding whether to send their young lads to play in our acadamy, the players having their own kids, and then the Police drip drip of new offences being aimed at him. Even the fans who were supportive, in the main started to question as the 2nd raft of 10's of offences were published.No company would have been able to have kept him as manager, and at least we offered to support him during that time.

Hoddle. Do i need to say more?

Gray. He had the opportunity to go with the rest who GH had taken away but turned him down as he was loyal to the club. RL rewarded that loyalty by giving him the job.i wasnt too impressed but there is nothing wrong in rewarding loyalty.RL was decisive in replacing him when things were looking bad.

WGS again he stated when he came that he would only be here for 3 years as he promised his wife so.WGS a man of his word carried that out.The news of him leaving destabilised the club and we couldnt get someone ready and it was all public , the results went on a steep decline, relegation form in fact.RL wished for GH to return, i like many others voiced our disgust.

Sturrock, was a brave/reckless decision similar to keane/Ince appontments.PS has statd recently that the pressure was too much for him and so he resigned.

Left again in the lurch Wigley was installed. He had rave reviews what he had achievedin the reserve set up, and glowing reports from the playing staff. Hit by a terrible run of injuries (a very unlucky period in time, 2-1 away at Arsenal in the injury time and van Persie hit a fantastic equaliser, Niemi injured pre the vital WBA game and his replacement makes 2 howlers and we only draw)he is replaced, perhaps too late but still over 20 games left.

HR an exciting appointment, the fans in the main were overjoyed we were to be saved, and should have been.

Basset/Wise caretaker. Showed nothing that they could improve things and after his outburst shwed why Wise would not be the man for us.

GB again welcomed by the fanbase.Left under LC again walked out on the club, no fault of ours.

NP taken on a short term contract(not immediately negotiated for longer by regime of time). Did adequate job, saved on last day, but united the fanbase.RL decides he wishes to use his own appointment

.

Jan under severe financial restraint, for long periods nearly worked.left too long before being nudges.

Wotte???

All those appointments you have to go back to the time and assess the clubs position. If the fsans had had their way NONE of the appointments would have happened.(perhaps Hoddle and GB)

 

To lose one manager is careless, to lose 13...

[OldNick]

Resigned did he??? He had just moved into a new house and as he said to someone who spoke to him at the time he was having carpets fitted: "I think they're trying to get me out" That sounds different to me.

I am just reporting what he said recently when his health was shown to be not good.I cant recall the illness he is suffereing from that he has had for a long time now. he did say the pressure was too much for him.

[OldNick]

To lose one manager is careless, to lose 13...

LTC it is ok to make cheap pops like that, but they are all pertinent reasons.

LM lost a lot under his football directorship, LC had 3 in less than 6months. How many managers have been replaced in the leagues already this season?

When you have the modern football fan wishing for the manager to be gone before his first game then the revloving door keeps happening.

[Legod Third Coming]

LTC it is ok to make cheap pops like that, but they are all pertinent reasons.

LM lost a lot under his football directorship, LC had 3 in less than 6months. How many managers have been replaced in the leagues already this season?

When you have the modern football fan wishing for the manager to be gone before his first game then the revloving door keeps happening.

 

Happy people tend to quit less than unhappy ones in my experience Nick.

 

Yes, LC was no better and bizarrely made the same mistake as his nemisis.

 

But I'm no fan of either. I am a fan of appointing someone with a good business brain who understands football: how to run a club, whom to staff it with and when and how to support them.

[Whitey Grandad]

I am just reporting what he said recently when his health was shown to be not good.I cant recall the illness he is suffereing from that he has had for a long time now. he did say the pressure was too much for him.

Thanks for that, every snippet of information is useful. I wonder if that was that pressure from the board or pressure from the job?

[JustMike]

Read my previous posts and assess the stats in the light of the massive downturn in the economies. I think it does support though that 1k fans walked away simply because of Lowe but arguably if Crouch had carried on his rate of decline in one season from start to finish then we would have been worse off. Alos Lowe hasn't gone down the £1 a kid route and turn the atmosphere at home games into a kindergarten. I think Window Cleaner mentioned revenues for bums on seats so time will tell.

 

No wonder you love stats if you look at them as simply as you do i.e. in an isolation chamber.

 

oh dear, oh dear..Lord Lowe has gone against your wishes!! :-)

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11438

 

"monday, 13th April...Kids for a quid"

[JustMike]

Didn't realise Wotton was injured just thought he was being kept out of the side by a younger player who seems to have found some spirit and belief. You are preaching to the converted but don't worry its good to read something positive that supports my own assessment of the situation.

 

I have had a few bosses in my time and respected many and adored none, apart from the wife. Wotte and probably Svensson have made a big difference but I don't think the contribution of KD should be overlooked nor the impact of Saeijs has had on the team - an inspired signing. I would like to see BWP given a start down the right as despite his efforts its not coming off for Lallana at the moment.

 

I hope your right about the end of the beginning and on the pitch I am quietly confident that the Wotte way will deliver. However, I remain very concerned about the financial situation and that Lowe's silence is deafening coupled with Wilde's comments in the programme, no ST renewals landing yet in NW Hants and stewards alledgedly only being paid on a one week basis. I don't know if the stewards rumour is 100% accurate but although my source was credible and has the right contacts in the game I don't know how stewards are normally paid. i.e monthly, weekly or under what type of contract. Taking that out of the equation we can only hope improved performances lead to increased attendances and revenues because financially I sense we are more precarious than Charlton's league position.

 

agreed, nor should the fact that Saga and Euell are playing too. Experience and youth, something in which we should have done from the start of the season

[OldNick]

Happy people tend to quit less than unhappy ones in my experience Nick.

 

Yes, LC was no better and bizarrely made the same mistake as his nemisis.

 

But I'm no fan of either. I am a fan of appointing someone with a good business brain who understands football: how to run a club, whom to staff it with and when and how to support them.

Which ones quit because they were unhappy? HR I suspect. GH went for the obvious reason, WGS left on a promise to his wife.

[SW11_Saint]

Given his recent dabble with the continent, it would of course have to be the Jeux Sans Frontieres version;)

 

And don't forget he would need to catch two beachballs, just in case the the manager on the first one goes tts up a few months down the line.

 

Trois, deux, un!!!!!!!!!

 

Then again not sure Eurosceptic Lowe would partake in such a federal game invented by Charles De Gaulle!!!!!

The Eurosceptic bit is interesting... I recall a quote from Lowe at the time he was defending his appointment of Wigley -

 

"I make no excuse for supporting young British managerial talent" (or words to that effect)

 

I wonder why the same didn't apply to Pearson? And why - for Lowe of all people - have this incredible volte-face and decide it is better to support (not so young) foreign talent at the expense of British talent?

 

'Cheaper' European labour taking "British jobs" - whatever must his chums from the Referendum Party think?!

Edited 3 March, 2009 by SW11_Saint

[JohnnyFartPants]

Happy people tend to quit less than unhappy ones in my experience Nick.

 

Yes, LC was no better and bizarrely made the same mistake as his nemisis.

 

But I'm no fan of either. I am a fan of appointing someone with a good business brain who understands football: how to run a club, whom to staff it with and when and how to support them.

 

Pretty simplistic view to be fair.

 

Tend to agree on the last bit though.

[Legod Third Coming]

Which ones quit because they were unhappy? HR I suspect. GH went for the obvious reason, WGS left on a promise to his wife.

 

 

Nick, you'll never know their real motivations. But when a business has staff turnover so high in a key position it ceases to the fault of those in that position. That's true of any business, it must be true of ours.

 

WGS ever have that operation?

[JohnnyFartPants]

Nick, you'll never know their real motivations. But when a business has staff turnover so high in a key position it ceases to the fault of those in that position. That's true of any business, it must be true of ours.

 

WGS ever have that operation?

 

At the end of the day money talks. Good managers want to better themselves, so leave, as money talks. Rubbish managers get sacked, as money talks. Do you really think that had WGS stayed with us because Lowe wasn't in charge and even if he was "happy" he wouldn't now be at Celtic if they came knocking? Hoddle is probably the exception to the money talks stratagy as he would have taken a pay cut to have a bash at Spurs.

[OldNick]

Nick, you'll never know their real motivations. But when a business has staff turnover so high in a key position it ceases to the fault of those in that position. That's true of any business, it must be true of ours.

 

WGS ever have that operation?

No i wont know as will very few. Apart from Arsenal and Manu very few clubs have kept their manager for a long time

[Whitey Grandad]

Nick, you'll never know their real motivations. But when a business has staff turnover so high in a key position it ceases to the fault of those in that position. That's true of any business, it must be true of ours.

 

WGS ever have that operation?[/quote]

I read at the time that his settlement from Coventry had just come through so he could afford to step aside and have his op. It was in The Daily Mail so it must be true. :roll: Don't they still have a place in Warsash?

[Legod Third Coming]

At the end of the day money talks. Good managers want to better themselves, so leave, as money talks. Rubbish managers get sacked, as money talks. Do you really think that had WGS stayed with us because Lowe wasn't in charge and even if he was "happy" he wouldn't now be at Celtic if they came knocking? Hoddle is probably the exception to the money talks stratagy as he would have taken a pay cut to have a bash at Spurs.

 

People leave jobs all the time citing money and personal reasons, but really it's because they are unhappy for one reason or another.

 

Do you think if WGS had been given £10m to spend he'd have hopped off for that operation?

 

Me neither...

 

But no-one knows.

 

My point is you cannot rotate through so many managers and just say that every time if was the manager's doing. That is just being blind to an underlying problem either of selection or management.

[saintwarwick]

No i wont know as will very few. Apart from Arsenal and Manu very few clubs have kept their manager for a long time

 

Newcastle are a prime example.

[saintwarwick]

I quite agree that we can only hope that this mini revival consolidates into something stronger and we start to see benefits on and off the pitch.

 

In last seasons run in, attendances went up under Crouch, so hopefully we can replicate that again this year.

 

Interesting stat from last season under Crouch, we had the highest attendance against Sheffield United (31,957) and we also had the lowest attendance against Leicester City (17,741).

[OldNick]

People leave jobs all the time citing money and personal reasons, but really it's because they are unhappy for one reason or another.

 

Do you think if WGS had been given £10m to spend he'd have hopped off for that operation?

 

Me neither...

 

But no-one knows.

 

My point is you cannot rotate through so many managers and just say that every time if was the manager's doing. That is just being blind to an underlying problem either of selection or management.

He did buy neil mccann and so perhaps it wqas best he didnt have a big pot to spend.

WGS lost his appetite after we lost Bridge.He became disenchanted and stated that , you just about get to the big clubs coattails and then they buy your best playrs and you are back to square 1. That was a major reason as he could see with a club like ours in the middle you are never going to compete against the top 4 and the CL money rolling in.

He did not leave due to RL IMO

[JohnnyFartPants]

People leave jobs all the time citing money and personal reasons, but really it's because they are unhappy for one reason or another.

 

Do you think if WGS had been given £10m to spend he'd have hopped off for that operation?

 

Me neither...

 

But no-one knows.

 

My point is you cannot rotate through so many managers and just say that every time if was the manager's doing. That is just being blind to an underlying problem either of selection or management.

 

Unhappy at the money they earn mainly.

[St Marco]

3rd to bottom in the drop zone, 4 points from safety, 2 very hard away games to come, 13 games left (12 after tonight) etc etc. While i am glad we all have some badly needed renewed faith let's remember one thing. In our team currently playing only 1-2 players were not at this club last year. Meaning all the players we have brought in (15 at last count?) have had no effect on the team. While Lowe has removed a lot of players to save cash on the wage budget he has also added to it himself with useless buy's/loans. We have now fully reverted back to an english system, the only hint of a dutch experiment remaining is the manager and staff. Lowe was nowhere near being right, he bumbled onto 2 wins, 2 wins which reading some peoples words is like we have won the champions league....

I 100% believe that if we had retained our old system and our old staff we would have attracted better players for next to nothing such as what Pearson has done at Leicester. An experienced team will always do better then a team of kids, and we are seeing that now with the results and the performances. So Lowe did what Lowe does, and that is trying to be different, trying his own methods, which never work. This is just another example of it. If we stay up then we will at least have some players with experience of this league for next season. If we go down then i don't even want to think about that.

[Whitey Grandad]

Unhappy at the money they earn mainly.

Or it might be a 'better offer'. What was it 'arry said about Crouch going to Liverpool? "Treble the money and Champions' League football" ? If they offered me that, I might even go myself.

[SW11_Saint]

3rd to bottom in the drop zone, 4 points from safety, 2 very hard away games to come, 13 games left (12 after tonight) etc etc. While i am glad we all have some badly needed renewed faith let's remember one thing. In our team currently playing only 1-2 players were not at this club last year. Meaning all the players we have brought in (15 at last count?) have had no effect on the team. While Lowe has removed a lot of players to save cash on the wage budget he has also added to it himself with useless buy's/loans. We have now fully reverted back to an english system, the only hint of a dutch experiment remaining is the manager and staff. Lowe was nowhere near being right, he bumbled onto 2 wins, 2 wins which reading some peoples words is like we have won the champions league....

I 100% believe that if we had retained our old system and our old staff we would have attracted better players for next to nothing such as what Pearson has done at Leicester. An experienced team will always do better then a team of kids, and we are seeing that now with the results and the performances. So Lowe did what Lowe does, and that is trying to be different, trying his own methods, which never work. This is just another example of it. If we stay up then we will at least have some players with experience of this league for next season. If we go down then i don't even want to think about that.

Well said!!!

[Nineteen Canteen]

I 100% believe that if we had retained our old system and our old staff we would have attracted better players for next to nothing such as what Pearson has done at Leicester.

 

and I believe 100% had we kept the old system we would have been bust before Christmas as the rules of engagement had changed somewhat. You can't compare what Pearson has done at leicester with what he could have done here as the financial constraints are somewhat different not to mention the vastly inferior opposition.

 

The two wins are giving most of us hope because of the quality of the opposition and the marked difference in the players attitude and commitment under Wotte. No doubt if we lose the next two away games you will delight that your unfounded theories can be wheeled out again but the reality is we don't know how good Pearson is until he is given a chance of managing in the higher leagues. It could easily go a bit Paul Ince for him next season.

 

I'll be interested to understand how we could attract better players for next to nothing? Surely, these better players/journeymen players want paying and their pensions topped up and we couldn't sell the 'better players' we already had; John, Rasiak, Saga, Euell, Skacel and I suppose we have to be grateful Idiotkez (much loved by Pearson btw) was at the end of his contract otherwise that would have been another 10,000 nails in our coffin each week.

 

Stick to posting your unhinged views on the Echo and look on the brightside Wotte hasn't identified Vincent Pericard as being key to our survival. Nigel Pearson the messiah of Saints? I know football is a religion but that is a leap of faith to far IMO.

[OldNick]

3rd to bottom in the drop zone, 4 points from safety, 2 very hard away games to come, 13 games left (12 after tonight) etc etc. While i am glad we all have some badly needed renewed faith let's remember one thing. In our team currently playing only 1-2 players were not at this club last year. Meaning all the players we have brought in (15 at last count?) have had no effect on the team. While Lowe has removed a lot of players to save cash on the wage budget he has also added to it himself with useless buy's/loans. We have now fully reverted back to an english system, the only hint of a dutch experiment remaining is the manager and staff. Lowe was nowhere near being right, he bumbled onto 2 wins, 2 wins which reading some peoples words is like we have won the champions league....

I 100% believe that if we had retained our old system and our old staff we would have attracted better players for next to nothing such as what Pearson has done at Leicester. An experienced team will always do better then a team of kids, and we are seeing that now with the results and the performances. So Lowe did what Lowe does, and that is trying to be different, trying his own methods, which never work. This is just another example of it. If we stay up then we will at least have some players with experience of this league for next season. If we go down then i don't even want to think about that.

 

Who is saying we are doing well.Iti s not me. The 15 players you mention I assume includes loans who have gone back and also players who were free agents and on the injury list.

Size Perry Morgan Wotton Pearce (when here) have been very good.Robertson was part of a swap deal that didnt come off (he did score a goal that got us 3 points thankfully). Peckhart soon went from where he came.Forecast is a back up keeper. Holmes(injured) and Ryan Smith were free agents and so cost token amounts. Liptak looks useful to bring on when we are closing a game.Pulis was linked to the davies sale (turned out to be fine business) gasmi i have seen snippets of and doesnt look that good at present.

As for ythe conjecture about keeping the staff from last season yes if we had Strern Rasiak from day 1 we may have more points but that is all perhaps and maybes.

Do not compare Leicester in L1 to CCC or you may as well compare us and WBA or Man U.Different leagues, wait for next season and then lets judge NP how good he is.The fact as I see it is that he so very nearly took us down, and his main attribute was that many of the disbelievers of now were right behind him and so the fanbase were united. That was his main asset to my mind, LC could not have been that convinced or he would have signed him up well before RL came back in.

Perhaps we had better not get points per game debates going either as they prove little

[St Marco]

and I believe 100% had we kept the old system we would have been bust before Christmas as the rules of engagement had changed somewhat. You can't compare what Pearson has done at leicester with what he could have done here as the financial constraints are somewhat different not to mention the vastly inferior opposition.

 

The two wins are giving most of us hope because of the quality of the opposition and the marked difference in the players attitude and commitment under Wotte. No doubt if we lose the next two away games you will delight that your unfounded theories can be wheeled out again but the reality is we don't know how good Pearson is until he is given a chance of managing in the higher leagues. It could easily go a bit Paul Ince for him next season.

 

I'll be interested to understand how we could attract better players for next to nothing? Surely, these better players/journeymen players want paying and their pensions topped up and we couldn't sell the 'better players' we already had; John, Rasiak, Saga, Euell, Skacel and I suppose we have to be grateful Idiotkez (much loved by Pearson btw) was at the end of his contract otherwise that would have been another 10,000 nails in our coffin each week.

 

Stick to posting your unhinged views on the Echo and look on the brightside Wotte hasn't identified Vincent Pericard as being key to our survival. Nigel Pearson the messiah of Saints? I know football is a religion but that is a leap of faith to far IMO.

 

Managers attract players through their contacts. If they are someone who has been about and managed lets say the england u21 squad then they will likely be respected in the business more then the guy who managed your local sunday league team.

 

Pearson has spent as much as we have spent at Leicester. We have spent supposedly £1m on Schniderlin alone. Leicester have spent around £500k. Look at the players they brought in. Hard working pro's who will give you their all. Next season they will be a different team but for the job of going up to the CCC the strategy is right. The same rule apply's to us. Our strategy was to save money but go with the youngsters. A strategy that most people fans and pundits alike knew would not work. But Lowe knew different didn't he? He knew all those people were wrong and he would be right. 30 games later and he changes back to what we were like last season. Great strategy right? Or more likely no strategy?

 

Now you may not have liked Pearson, fair enough people are allowed their own opinion. But using Pericard as an example of Pearson's loans is a bit laughable. Wright,Lucketti,Perry etc all saved this club from the beatings we were getting. We turned into a team shipping goals into a team hard to score against. And that is what kept us up in the end. 3 defeats in 13 games turned it around.

 

Now the journey men that you mention were a bit hit and miss. But John was our top scorer of over 20 goals. You think our current striker DMG will do that? He has played every game this year and is not even close to John's scoring ratio. And that is the difference between then and now. We had lots of players who simply could not be fooked, they needed someone to stand up to them and that is what happened.

[Verbal Kint]

Managers attract players through their contacts. If they are someone who has been about and managed lets say the england u21 squad then they will likely be respected in the business more then the guy who managed your local sunday league team.

 

Pearson has spent as much as we have spent at Leicester. We have spent supposedly £1m on Schniderlin alone. Leicester have spent around £500k. Look at the players they brought in. Hard working pro's who will give you their all. Next season they will be a different team but for the job of going up to the CCC the strategy is right. The same rule apply's to us. Our strategy was to save money but go with the youngsters. A strategy that most people fans and pundits alike knew would not work. But Lowe knew different didn't he? He knew all those people were wrong and he would be right. 30 games later and he changes back to what we were like last season. Great strategy right? Or more likely no strategy?

 

Now you may not have liked Pearson, fair enough people are allowed their own opinion. But using Pericard as an example of Pearson's loans is a bit laughable. Wright,Lucketti,Perry etc all saved this club from the beatings we were getting. We turned into a team shipping goals into a team hard to score against. And that is what kept us up in the end. 3 defeats in 13 games turned it around.

 

Now the journey men that you mention were a bit hit and miss. But John was our top scorer of over 20 goals. You think our current striker DMG will do that? He has played every game this year and is not even close to John's scoring ratio. And that is the difference between then and now. We had lots of players who simply could not be fooked, they needed someone to stand up to them and that is what happened.

 

 

You're wasting your time St Marco. This thread has proved that no matter what mistakes Lowe makes there will be posters who defend him and support him. He could rip this club apart and send us into liquidation, and there are posters who will still think it's in the club's best interests. It really is pointless debating, especially with Nineteen.

 

All good points by the way

[OldNick]

You're wasting your time St Marco. This thread has proved that no matter what mistakes Lowe makes there will be posters who defend him and support him. He could rip this club apart and send us into liquidation, and there are posters who will still think it's in the club's best interests. It really is pointless debating, especially with Nineteen.

 

All good points by the way

All in your opinion of course VK. I myself find it interesting seeing others viewpoints and debating with them if I believe they are being unfair or wrong. it has helped me in the past to see if in fact i have been wrong.Fortunately that has been very rare, Saga is probably the one thing I have been most wrong about. he has helped rejuvenate the team, that with Wotte changing the players mindset and good pros like KD PW JE geting the team fight there.

Football is about opinions, sadly most of the opinions are about politics of a football club not the great game we love.

[NickG]

3rd to bottom in the drop zone, 4 points from safety, 2 very hard away games to come, 13 games left (12 after tonight) etc etc. While i am glad we all have some badly needed renewed faith let's remember one thing. In our team currently playing only 1-2 players were not at this club last year. Meaning all the players we have brought in (15 at last count?) have had no effect on the team. While Lowe has removed a lot of players to save cash on the wage budget he has also added to it himself with useless buy's/loans. We have now fully reverted back to an english system, the only hint of a dutch experiment remaining is the manager and staff. Lowe was nowhere near being right, he bumbled onto 2 wins, 2 wins which reading some peoples words is like we have won the champions league....

I 100% believe that if we had retained our old system and our old staff we would have attracted better players for next to nothing such as what Pearson has done at Leicester. An experienced team will always do better then a team of kids, and we are seeing that now with the results and the performances. So Lowe did what Lowe does, and that is trying to be different, trying his own methods, which never work. This is just another example of it. If we stay up then we will at least have some players with experience of this league for next season. If we go down then i don't even want to think about that.

 

Interesting post and agree with much of it.

 

I agree we are not out of the **** yet.

 

The fact of how many players didn't play last year works both ways - Lallana, Gillett, DMG, James - all came thorugh our through the youth ranks and were not first teamers last year.

And Arguably the one of the most influential new signings in our recent change in form is dutch and was signed due to knowing our dutch manager very well.

 

We still have a dutch manager with no experience of this league of English football!

 

This all suggests that this is not a total abandoning of plans.

 

What was his plan anyway? Think his first signing was Wooton. He was basing defence around Svensson and Perry and Davis.

 

My take on his plans are;

 

Appointing youth type manager to use techincal ability of younger players - Jan - failed.

To change the emphasis on high earners - difficult to say without figures but certainly saved money, would suspect went too far.

Integrate youth players into side - judge at the end of the season but if Gillet/Lallana/DMG/James help us to match the survival of Wright, Ostlund, Iadiakez and Safri -then that is a big success.

 

Can't remember what my point was now:confused::confused:

Edited 3 March, 2009 by NickG

[labibs]

I think Poortvliet's insistence on playing the dutch formation, regardless of form or fitness of our players, was a massive mistake. The refusal to play 2 up front, despite our lack of goals at home, just looks stubborn now. Also the decision to promote youth players was over done. You cannot have the entire team made up of youth players, you need a bit of nous on the pitch.

 

However I do think we have some talented youngsters at the club, over the last 2 games our starting midfield has been made up entirely of home-grown players. Our big mistake was in thinking that you can get away with no experience at all and trying to blood all of the youngster at the same time. As good as they may become in the future, the likes of Lancashire and Paterson are simply not ready to be playing regularly in the CCC yet, neither is Gobern.

 

I just fear that this realisation may have come too late to save us.

[Legod Third Coming]

He did buy neil mccann and so perhaps it wqas best he didnt have a big pot to spend.

WGS lost his appetite after we lost Bridge.He became disenchanted and stated that , you just about get to the big clubs coattails and then they buy your best playrs and you are back to square 1. That was a major reason as he could see with a club like ours in the middle you are never going to compete against the top 4 and the CL money rolling in.

He did not leave due to RL IMO

 

 

The two are not mutually exclusive are they. If RL wouldn't sanction spending needed to move forward... it's an age old story.

[Legod Third Coming]

He did buy neil mccann and so perhaps it wqas best he didnt have a big pot to spend.

WGS lost his appetite after we lost Bridge.He became disenchanted and stated that , you just about get to the big clubs coattails and then they buy your best playrs and you are back to square 1. That was a major reason as he could see with a club like ours in the middle you are never going to compete against the top 4 and the CL money rolling in.

He did not leave due to RL IMO

 

 

The two are not mutually exclusive are they. If RL wouldn't sanction spending needed to move forward... it's an age old story.

[Gingeletiss]

it has helped me in the past to see if in fact i have been wrong. Fortunately that has been very rare

 

Football is about opinions, sadly most of the opinions are about politics of a football club not the great game we love.

 

 

Love it nickh, nothing like beating your own drum loudly;);)

 

No point arguing with you now, as you are not going to be wrong:smt082

[Gingeletiss]

it has helped me in the past to see if in fact i have been wrong. Fortunately that has been very rare

 

Football is about opinions, sadly most of the opinions are about politics of a football club not the great game we love.

 

 

Love it nickh, nothing like beating your own drum loudly;);)

 

No point arguing with you now, as you are not going to be wrong:smt082