£325,000,000,000 toxic assets and £650,000 pension for the man who did it.

[1976_Child]

We, the British tax payer have just 'insured' toxic assets from the Royal Bank of Scotland in the amount of £325,000,000,000 - yes, that is right. £325 BILLION.

 

We have also just given the train-wreck of a 'bank' an additional £13,000,000,000 (BILLION) to support its balance sheet. This is on top of the £20,000,000,000 (BILLION) we have already handed over. The governemnt has also said that there is an additional £6,000,000,000 if they need it.

 

Population of the UK: 60,000,000 (MILLION)

 

Just the amount of cash we have given to the 'bank' is £650 for ever man, woman and child. If only one tenth of the toxic assets goes bad then that is another £650 each.

 

And 'Sir' Fred Goodwin is, right now, drawing £650,000 PER YEAR FOR LIFE from a £16,000,000 pension pot. It was on his watch that the 'bank' ****ed up.

 

When and where is the riot? I will TAKE TO THE STREETS AND RIOT. The pathetic government says that this pension is ok because it is 'bound by contract' to pay it. Bull ****. If they think that is a contract wait until my fist comes into contact with their face.

 

I am serious. Getting Lowe out of our club is chicken feed compared to this. We THE PEOPLE MUST RIOT NOW.

 

There is nothing else left to do.

Edited 26 February, 2009 by 1976_Child

[nathan]

So presumably if you worked, had a contract and then your employers decided not to pay you, that would be ok.

 

Typical lefty rubbish. The contract is there for areason. I don't agree with him getting the money but it was the bank who agreed his contract.

[Post-it note]

(ock

[Hatch]

But the tax payer will have to pay for everything that gets burnt and smashed during the rioting.

 

Although more workers will need to be taken on to repair buildings, produce more windows, re-fit McDonalds and Starbucks, more lawyers to defend those arrested and charged. Maybe it could kick start the economy.

 

Pass me a brick.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Something does need to be done about bonuses and pensions that these lot are getting. It will take time but I think we are heading towards the end of the glory days for bankers, even when full recovery happens.

[1976_Child]

So presumably if you worked, had a contract and then your employers decided not to pay you, that would be ok.

 

Typical lefty rubbish. The contract is there for areason. I don't agree with him getting the money but it was the bank who agreed his contract.

 

Don't be an ass. There would be no pension pot, no business and no bank if WE hadn't bailed it out. You call it 'lefty rubbish'. I call in justice and common sense. Why should one man roll around in clover for the rest of his life while I have to work harder and harder to pay for his mistakes.

 

And rioting is the ONLY way we can protest. This is so obscene that normal rules must be suspended.

 

This country is finished.

[1976_Child]

So presumably if you worked, had a contract and then your employers decided not to pay you, that would be ok.

 

Typical lefty rubbish. The contract is there for areason. I don't agree with him getting the money but it was the bank who agreed his contract.

 

And do you not even have any idea of the scale of liability the tax payer has just taken on in this insurance scheme? The government spend about £650 Billion each year in total. On everything from the NHS, defence, police, education. Everything. We are now commited to insuring HALF that amount on just one bank, and the fraudster who crashed the bank is getting £650,000 PER YEAR. Do you not get it??? This is the worst most crass piece of capitalist crap.

[JohnnyFartPants]

And do you not even have any idea of the scale of liability the tax payer has just taken on in this insurance scheme? The government spend about £650 Billion each year in total. On everything from the NHS, defence, police, education. Everything. We are now commited to insuring HALF that amount on just one bank, and the fraudster who crashed the bank is getting £650,000 PER YEAR. Do you not get it??? This is the worst most crass piece of capitalist crap.

 

It might just possibly be the best bit of news this country has ever had to be honest. Not the bloke getting that pension, which would be totally illegal to now stop him having, but the whole economy imploding. Five years from now I bet we are in a much stronger position, as a nation, than we ever were until this huge collapse.

[Pancake]

and the fraudster who crashed the bank is getting £650,000 PER YEAR. Do you not get it??? This is the worst most crass piece of capitalist crap.

 

I must have missed the news report where he was found guilty of fraud.

[1976_Child]

I must have missed the news report where he was found guilty of fraud.

 

What is the difference? He was in charge. The bank is bankrupt. The shares are worthless. He is STILL stinking rich and getting richer.

 

It is all 'Reward' for these people. But for ordinary mortals like you and me we are left with the 'Risk'.

 

He is a FRAUDSTER and if he want's to sue me fine. I am broke.

[JohnnyFartPants]

What is the difference? He was in charge. The bank is bankrupt. The shares are worthless. He is STILL stinking rich and getting richer.

 

It is all 'Reward' for these people. But for ordinary mortals like you and me we are left with the 'Risk'.

 

He is a FRAUDSTER and if he want's to sue me fine. I am broke.

 

You are getting a bit too emotional about all this.

 

This is how I see things.

 

You have £10, I have £10. We can both spend our £10 on stuff.

 

You give Gordon £5, I give Gordon £5. We both have £5 to spend on stuff.

 

Things that cost £10 will now have to cost £5 or they won't be bought.

 

Okay, that is a very basic analogy of it all but the big picture is that if we are all screwed, then we are all still the same. Yes, jobs will go while the steadying of the ship happens and that will be very bad news for many, but at the same time I really think we are going to see a very leniet time from the powers that be throughout this horrid time due to the fact that they all know it was caused from their end.

[Weston Super Saint]

You are getting a bit too emotional about all this.

 

This is how I see things.

 

You have £10, I have £10. We can both spend our £10 on stuff.

 

You give Gordon £5, I give Gordon £5. We both have £5 to spend on stuff.

 

Things that cost £10 will now have to cost £5 or they won't be bought.

 

A little bit too basic, and not thought out at all!

 

Now that things only cost £5 - because that is all people have to buy them with - the people who sold those things can now only pay their employees half as much [minimum wage laws say this isn't going to happen], so they must pay only half as many employees. Ergo, one of you isn't going to have a job so only one of you will have that £5....

[JohnnyFartPants]

A little bit too basic, and not thought out at all!

 

Now that things only cost £5 - because that is all people have to buy them with - the people who sold those things can now only pay their employees half as much [minimum wage laws say this isn't going to happen], so they must pay only half as many employees. Ergo, one of you isn't going to have a job so only one of you will have that £5....

 

Yes but my point is that many companies will go to the wall, mainly the under performing ones as it will literally be survival of the fittest. What will be left behind will be able to grow again in the next boom after this bust. It happens in circles all the time. There is nothing too different in all this that has not happened before, other than the fall was greater as the credit leading up to it was greater than ever before.

 

It will all come out in the wash.

[Johnny Bognor]

We, the British tax payer have just 'insured' toxic assets from the Royal Bank of Scotland in the amount of £325,000,000,000 - yes, that is right. £325 BILLION.

 

We have also just given the train-wreck of a 'bank' an additional £13,000,000,000 (BILLION) to support its balance sheet. This is on top of the £20,000,000,000 (BILLION) we have already handed over. The governemnt has also said that there is an additional £6,000,000,000 if they need it.

 

Population of the UK: 60,000,000 (MILLION)

 

Just the amount of cash we have given to the 'bank' is £650 for ever man, woman and child. If only one tenth of the toxic assets goes bad then that is another £650 each.

 

And 'Sir' Fred Goodwin is, right now, drawing £650,000 PER YEAR FOR LIFE from a £16,000,000 pension pot. It was on his watch that the 'bank' ****ed up.

 

When and where is the riot? I will TAKE TO THE STREETS AND RIOT. The pathetic government says that this pension is ok because it is 'bound by contract' to pay it. Bull ****. If they think that is a contract wait until my fist comes into contact with their face.

 

I am serious. Getting Lowe out of our club is chicken feed compared to this. We THE PEOPLE MUST RIOT NOW.

 

There is nothing else left to do.

 

I'm with you on this and I'm a Capitalist, but my capitalism is based on creating real wealth rather than gambling. To start with, he should be stripped of his honours - they were given on the basis of the success of his organisation, and now it wasn't as succeessful as we were led to believe, they should be taken back.

 

Rob Peston leaked the pension info in addition to the one about the RBS private jet (which they tried to keep hush). Private jet? These guys had their noses in the trough.

 

As the RBS is now 70% owned by the taxpayer, the RBS is in all but name a public sector organisation and so I am looking forward to their inflation / deflation linked pay rises or pay cuts (with no bonuses).

 

These collective bunch of arseholes have screwed things for everybody else (which is bad enough) but they have been highly rewarded for it? That's not capitalism, that's plain stupidity.

[hypochondriac]

FFS I hate blame culture. What would you do if you were the labour government faced by this global crisis?

[Weston Super Saint]

Yes but my point is that many companies will go to the wall, mainly the under performing ones as it will literally be survival of the fittest. What will be left behind will be able to grow again in the next boom after this bust. It happens in circles all the time. There is nothing too different in all this that has not happened before, other than the fall was greater as the credit leading up to it was greater than ever before.

 

It will all come out in the wash.

 

It won't be a good thing

 

People losing their jobs will never be a good thing, especially since all the money needed to pay their UB40 has been spunked on RBS

 

Boom - Bust does happen all the time - despite what Gordon Brown insisted - but look what the last boom brought us, a house of cards

[nathan]

And do you not even have any idea of the scale of liability the tax payer has just taken on in this insurance scheme? The government spend about £650 Billion each year in total. On everything from the NHS, defence, police, education. Everything. We are now commited to insuring HALF that amount on just one bank, and the fraudster who crashed the bank is getting £650,000 PER YEAR. Do you not get it??? This is the worst most crass piece of capitalist crap.

 

So, it is the government's fault. The way they have gone about this situtaion smacks of desperation. They should have renogotiated contracts when they invested the large amount of money, but unfortunately, they seem to have bailed out with a huge amount of money but have no say in how the bank is run.

 

The Law is there to protect everyone, it is not this guy's fault that the contract he has allows this. If you were employed and someone offered you more than you thought you deserved would you tell them no thank you? Of course you wouldn't.

 

Bloody commies!

[nathan]

As the RBS is now 70% owned by the taxpayer, the RBS is in all but name a public sector organisation and so I am looking forward to their inflation / deflation linked pay rises or pay cuts (with no bonuses).

QUOTE]

 

Public sector workers have some of the best pension schemes around, and a lot of the best paid jobs I was looking at when I left uni were public sector.

[JohnnyFartPants]

It won't be a good thing

 

People losing their jobs will never be a good thing, especially since all the money needed to pay their UB40 has been spunked on RBS

 

Boom - Bust does happen all the time - despite what Gordon Brown insisted - but look what the last boom brought us, a house of cards

 

I think we need to make it attractive for young people to buy houses and get the market moving again. Once the bottom of the market starts moving the rest will follow suit. It does seem as if Gordon Brown is insisting that the bail out is on condition that they start lending again so who knows, things may well start to slowly get better once we lead up to Christmas.

[Johnny Bognor]

As the RBS is now 70% owned by the taxpayer, the RBS is in all but name a public sector organisation and so I am looking forward to their inflation / deflation linked pay rises or pay cuts (with no bonuses).

QUOTE]

 

Public sector workers have some of the best pension schemes around, and a lot of the best paid jobs I was looking at when I left uni were public sector.

 

 

Indeed they do, but we've done that one to death and I don't want to get BTF started. However, although Public Sector pay, conditions and pay reviews are very good, they are nowhere near what the bankers have been used to.

[Window Cleaner]

You are getting a bit too emotional about all this.

 

 

 

I think he has his reasons. From what I remember 1976C is an entrepreneur who'd built up a viable little business and has had it destroyed because of lack of bank support.

I imagine that must be very hard to take, especially if it the case of the bank

having made huge losses through bad management and your own business although well enough run goes under because of it.

 

Everybody knows my opinions on the subject, the UK is disastrously badly run and a lot of people in positions to influence other peoples lives are complete morons. This is why the elitist french system of "grandes ecoles"

works in a much better way. Although the politicians might be complete dorks the lads and lasses who come out of the ENA, Science-Politiques and the Polytechnique aren't. You have to be f*cking bright to get into the schools to prepare the entrance exams for those places(on your terms straight As

in Maths,Physics,History,Geography,French and 2 foreign languages) so however crazy the politicos may be the system is always guarded against excesses. Wouldn't get a job as a trader in a bank in France with 2 GCSEs,

nor a degree from a tinpot Tech College.

[Calvin]

How can the government afford to burn off so much money into RBS. But it will save jobs.

But Gordon Browniecake said that we are in 'recession' What a silly way to spend the tax payers money. To think, that could have been invested in so much better things, such as working on improving the communities!

Suppose a lot of the money supplies the shareholders pockets.

Edited 26 February, 2009 by Calvin

[JustMike]

its all boolix imo, at the end of the day it is always us, the tax payer, that pays for mistakes, be that government mistakes or bigwigs from banks etc.

 

On a side note, you notice how most things are coming down in price at the moment due to the recession, why is it then that Council Tax will rise, albeit by only 3% by a rise none the less. Why is it that it never goes down?

[Johnny Bognor]

I've had my spat at the bankers, now it's the governments turn.

 

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/02/the_goodwin_pension_questions.html

 

Either the government didn't know and were therefore incompetent or they did know and failed to act and were impotent. Either way, this shambles of a government should do the decent thing and go NOW!

[Mao Cap]

Don't hate the player, hate the game...

[Saint George]

its all boolix imo, at the end of the day it is always us, the tax payer, that pays for mistakes, be that government mistakes or bigwigs from banks etc.

 

On a side note, you notice how most things are coming down in price at the moment due to the recession, why is it then that Council Tax will rise, albeit by only 3% by a rise none the less. Why is it that it never goes down?

 

Because Nanny's grown to be enormous, having been on NuLabor's steroids for over a decade and she's getting bigger and bigger every day,....Someone has to feed her.

[TopGun]

Because Nanny's grown to be enormous, having been on NuLabor's steroids for over a decade and she's getting bigger and bigger every day,....Someone has to feed her.

 

[saint1977]

I think he has his reasons. From what I remember 1976C is an entrepreneur who'd built up a viable little business and has had it destroyed because of lack of bank support.

I imagine that must be very hard to take, especially if it the case of the bank

having made huge losses through bad management and your own business although well enough run goes under because of it.

 

Everybody knows my opinions on the subject, the UK is disastrously badly run and a lot of people in positions to influence other peoples lives are complete morons. This is why the elitist french system of "grandes ecoles"

works in a much better way. Although the politicians might be complete dorks the lads and lasses who come out of the ENA, Science-Politiques and the Polytechnique aren't. You have to be f*cking bright to get into the schools to prepare the entrance exams for those places(on your terms straight As

in Maths,Physics,History,Geography,French and 2 foreign languages) so however crazy the politicos may be the system is always guarded against excesses. Wouldn't get a job as a trader in a bank in France with 2 GCSEs,

nor a degree from a tinpot Tech College.

 

I agree with this, the problems started when half of the Chav population of Essex headed for the City in the 1980s. People don't neccessarily need to academically bright to start their own businesses and succeed - that requires a range of wider skills - but for an industry like investment banking I don't really want pizza-faced, Hackett wearing "Orwight Geezer" Tony from Romford being responsible for the health of our pension schemes. The fact such people have been "winging" it for years explains the mess we are in now and the FSA should be shot for complying with it.

[revolution saint]

Because Nanny's grown to be enormous, having been on NuLabor's steroids for over a decade and she's getting bigger and bigger every day,....Someone has to feed her.

 

Or Nanny had to pay for her kids (banks) recklessness? Moan all you like about how the govt has bailed out the banks but it is and was necessary. Prior Govt. spending may be considered excessive depending on your point of view but it didn't cause this recession - the banks did. In fact it was the banks a little closer to your home that started the rot.

 

If we're playing the blame game then let's go for the real culprits.

[Weston Super Saint]

Or Nanny had to pay for her kids (banks) recklessness? Moan all you like about how the govt has bailed out the banks but it is and was necessary. Prior Govt. spending may be considered excessive depending on your point of view but it didn't cause this recession - the banks did. In fact it was the banks a little closer to your home that started the rot.

 

If we're playing the blame game then let's go for the real culprits.

 

So, if the banks were the real culprits, then why was it necessary to bail them out? Why not let them get what was coming to them, and let them learn the lessons? Surely this way means they can carry on as before safe in the knowledge that the tax payer will continue to pick up the tab for their mistakes???

[Hatch]

So, if the banks were the real culprits, then why was it necessary to bail them out? Why not let them get what was coming to them, and let them learn the lessons? Surely this way means they can carry on as before safe in the knowledge that the tax payer will continue to pick up the tab for their mistakes???

 

 

Maybe because the great british public are their customers , so letting the banks get hit would effect all of us.

APart from my nan who keeps her cash in her commode.

[Weston Super Saint]

Maybe because the great british public are their customers , so letting the banks get hit would effect all of us.

APart from my nan who keeps her cash in her commode.

 

Not me

 

My bank didn't take any money off the Gov't because they didn't need to

[revolution saint]

So, if the banks were the real culprits, then why was it necessary to bail them out? Why not let them get what was coming to them, and let them learn the lessons? Surely this way means they can carry on as before safe in the knowledge that the tax payer will continue to pick up the tab for their mistakes???

 

Maybe because the great british public are their customers , so letting the banks get hit would effect all of us.

APart from my nan who keeps her cash in her commode.

 

There's your answer. If we failed to bail out the banks then people would lose their jobs and their homes and it wouldn't finish at just one bank - they'd all fall like dominoes. Maybe your bank was sensible but if RBS collapsed then investors of every bank would withdraw cash and everyone would suffer.

[Saint George]

Or Nanny had to pay for her kids (banks) recklessness? Moan all you like about how the govt has bailed out the banks but it is and was necessary. Prior Govt. spending may be considered excessive depending on your point of view but it didn't cause this recession - the banks did. In fact it was the banks a little closer to your home that started the rot.

 

If we're playing the blame game then let's go for the real culprits.

 

Yup and your right, it did all start in the US....Back when the limp wristed liberal Bill 'Cigar' Clinton passed the 'socialist' law that 'forced' banks to take on Sub prime loans. After all its only fair that 'everyone' should be able to take out a loan, regardless of their ability to pay it back!...And if the Banks refused, they were pursued through the Courts by the likes of Obama's ACORN....All this is just one of the many ugly consequences of the socialism you and others seem to love so much

 

No one sums up the whole sorry mess better than Richard Littlejohn IMO http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1156686/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-If-clawing-pensions-lets-start-Gordons.html

 

"Adair Turner told a Commons select committee that Gordon put pressure on regulators not to intervene in the reckless lending spree which caused the banking crisis.

 

The FSA was under strict instructions to operate a 'light touch' regime and not ask too many questions as the get-rich-quick culture spiralled out of control.

 

Turner also admitted that the three-ring regulatory circus designed by Gordon Brown, when he stripped the Bank of England of responsibility for overseeing banking practice, was simply 'not fit for purpose'."

 

 

"It wouldn't even be fair to say that Brown was asleep at the wheel while it was all going pear-shaped. He was on the bridge and screaming: 'Full Steam Ahead.'

 

Those who warned that we were headed for the rocks were thrown overboard, like whistle-blower Paul Moore, who was sacked from HBOS for warning repeatedly that the bank was taking excessive risks with dodgy derivatives and loans.

 

Brown simply didn't want to know. His only interest was in the billions of pounds in taxes being generated by the bonus culture.

 

The Big Bangers could trade in all the sub-prime nasties they liked just so long as they kept shovelling money into the Treasury, for him to fritter away on his client state.

 

The biggest beneficiary of the boom in the financial markets was Brown himself.

Without the tsunami of easy money generated in the City he couldn't have embarked on his decade-long drunken-sailor public spending spree.

 

Along the way, he raided private pension funds like a balaclava-ed blagger with a sawn-off Purdey and sold off Britain's precious gold reserves at the bottom of the market. Even before the banking collapse, millions of pensioners faced penury because of Gordon's greed.

 

The losses at RBS pale into insignificance alongside the £2trillion debt which Brown has saddled us with - £33,000 for every man, woman and child in the country

[Johnny Shearer]

Its funny how Goodwin's pension details came out a day before RBS announced their massive losses and the government implements their APS with all the debt.

 

Typical of this regime.

[Gingeletiss]

Worst 2...........RBS and HBOS

 

 

Bailed out by...........a scottish Prime Minister from an English Parliment. What happend to their own parliment, went very quiet all of a sudden, they can afford free precripsions/parking/drugs trials......let them sort their own bl**dy banks out, FFS, their money is not even accepted down here.

[bridge too far]

Not me

 

My bank didn't take any money off the Gov't because they didn't need to

 

Nor mine. But that's probably because it is an ethical bank and has quasi-socialist principles.

 

The Co-operative Bank of course

[Mao Cap]

Harriet Harman must have gone f*cking barmy, threatening to change the law so Fredders will have to hand his pension back

 

Quite good actually, as it should mean that the horrible cow gets sent into the wilderness and someone better takes her place