Is it racisist

[Hatch]

If they get upset by it, maybe they should think twice about doing it

[INFLUENCED.COM]

A friend of mine caught his Muslim neighbour sh@gging a young sheep, he called the RSPCA but there was nothing they could do............ they said it was Islam

[miserableoldgit]

I would have thought that as a Welshman you might have found the behaviour of some of your fellow countrymen draped with Red Dragon flags more of an embarassment and something to miss.

 

Lets be honest,both Cardiff and Swansea fans resort to a lot of anti English abuse week in-week out.A mate at Swansea Uni c20 years ago told me how every home game at The Vetch would include "we'll never be mastered by you English bastards " sung to the red flag.

 

Do you think an approach to your compatriots not to offend "your English friends and neighbours" would be well received ?

 

Its a great shame you feel uncomfortable at the match,but I think its naive to expect it to cease.

 

 

 

Celts,as opposed to Anglo-Saxons.Not that many engaging in the 'banter' will understand.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.How often when England play football,and moreso rugby where the Welsh are concerned,do we hear them openly supporting or wearing the opponents shirts ?

 

 

 

Noticed your avatar; can I have one saying "I beat or poke miserable old gits with spoons "? Or would that be deemed ageist,or moodist ?

Both of these at least! I`m sure we could find some other "-ists" or "-phobics" somewhere!

[lordswoodsaints]

The Cardiff game is coming up with all the chants of "sheep ****gers" etc. After the last few games against them I'll be giving this one a miss because as a Welsh man I have no wish to be sat amoungst people hurling abuse that is also insulting to me a Saints fan.

 

I see no difference between this and making monkey noises and the like to black people.

 

it has been proven that welsh people do like to dip their wicks into the fluffy white grass munchers,they have been caught doing it on numerous occasions but black people do not swing from the trees,eat bananas like they are going out of fashion or groom each other for lice.

i suggest that if you are easily upset by a bit of chanting then i would steer clear of football grounds and stick to a sport that the welsh are good at........chasing sheep around a field with your mint sauce covered knob hanging out :-)

[Arizona]

I don't know about racist, but they are certainly incredibly dull and unfunny.

 

It's not about being funny. It's about the satisfaction of knowing they've had to suffer the same tiresome jokes at EVERY match since the beginning of time.

[Dimond Geezer]

It’s nothing more than banter.

 

A very good friend of mine is welsh, when he answers the phone to me he doesn’t say hello etc he ‘baaaaaas’ at me. He is the MD of a small company and when I received his xmas card this year it consisted of a flock of sheep running down a hill. His response to having the **** taken out of it was “I’ve not lost it, they’re running towards me, not away” and then proceeded to tell me which one he fancies the most.

 

I seem to recall that the Swansea fans were waving inflatable sheep when we played them.

 

I really don’t think the Taffs are that bothered about it!

[Fuengirola Saint]

The Cardiff game is coming up with all the chants of "sheep ****gers" etc. After the last few games against them I'll be giving this one a miss because as a Welsh man I have no wish to be sat amoungst people hurling abuse that is also insulting to me a Saints fan.

 

I see no difference between this and making monkey noises and the like to black people.

 

Are you for real? Unless you are actually having carnal relations with a sheep and ashamed of the fact that you are, what are you whinging about?

[BadgerBadger]

I'm more concerned about all these poor sheep missing out on a on a dam good seeing to if this motion gets carried

[exeter_saint]

in reference to the recent swansea game, you are kind of asking for it when several of your supporters bring inflatable sheep to the stadium

[Saint Richard of Woolston]

I had a few years of sitting on Football Association Discip Panels not so long ago. Fortunately I have my life back now and have got out of that.

 

The real answer to the question, as judged by the FA, is that to call somebody a 'welsh', 'scottish' or 'irish' so and so is indeed racist. To call somebody a 'skate', 'scouse', 'geordie' etc etc etc so and so is NOT racist.

 

There accompanied a long and boring explanation from the FA LAwyers as to why this was and I will not attempt to recount it here as some of you will die with boredom. But that is how the FA will judge it.

 

Why should we worry about the FA, I hear you say? Well, it was the same guidelines the police had and given the Old Bill's willingness to dive in and prosecute in the wake of Sol Campbell's treatment at Notarfkrap a while back, I would caution you all that anybody indulging in this sort of banter may feel the long arm of OB.

 

I am not saying that it is right that OB could grab you for this. Just warning that it could happen under the terms of reference for Football Policing as agreed with the FA.

[Saint Richard of Woolston]

Further to above, I should point out that I know Campbell was not on the end of just 'racial' abuse. However, singling people out for other things (e.g. sexual orienation, disability etc) is judged under the same criteria.

 

Lord, I wish I hadn't started this.

 

Just beware the 'fun police' may take a dim view of this sort of banter.

[Norm]

Someone please tell me that the OP is joking! As a 10 year old boy, I moved to Southampton from Dublin and I endured years of Irish 'jokes' and people taking the **** out of me being Irish. After a while, I can to realise that I either joined in or let it annony me. Well, I joined in and I laugh the loudest at Irish jokes. Have a look at the Daily Mail today, re Frank Carson.

 

I fail to see the connection with the Monkey chants:rolleyes:

[Leslie Charteris]

"The Cardiff game is coming up with all the chants of "sheep ****gers"

 

Are you sure this is aimed at the Welsh? There are an awful lot of these types living in Gloucestershire, if you know what I mean!

[70's Mike]

Welsh men with Wellies on, reasons to be suspicious.

Except ones with Saints Shirts on

[St_Tel49]

I joined in with the "just a small town in Wales" chant at Ashton Gate the other week.

 

I live in Bristol so was effectively insulting myself.

 

Mind you, I managed to avoid shxgging any livestock...

Didn't they fancy you then? ;-)

[saintjinksie]

The Cardiff game is coming up with all the chants of "sheep ****gers" etc. After the last few games against them I'll be giving this one a miss because as a Welsh man I have no wish to be sat amoungst people hurling abuse that is also insulting to me a Saints fan.

 

I see no difference between this and making monkey noises and the like to black people.

 

well if you werent all so awkward and bitter....

[Polaroid Saint]

The real answer to the question, as judged by the FA, is that to call somebody a 'welsh', 'scottish' or 'irish' so and so is indeed racist. To call somebody a 'skate', 'scouse', 'geordie' etc etc etc so and so is NOT racist.

 

Erm, Are you sure about this? I mean if someone shouts out to a Glaswegian "Oi, Scottish Man" is this racism or merely statement of fact?

 

If they say "Oi, Scottish Tw*T" does this turn it into racism or is this merely 'verbal assualt'.

 

I also would say although it is common to refer to different National Identities as 'races' (The English Race for example - as used by the BNP etc) this is not technically correct.

 

Perhaps "Prejudice Based On Ethniticity" is a better term, with Xenophobia as the root cause.

 

Things get a bit more niggly with national identities and slang - for example - Afgahnistan nationals are Afgahns, Kurdistan nationals are Kurds, which SHOULD make ****stan nationals Paks. Of course we don't hear this at all, instead we hear a bastardised and very insulting version (more often leveled at at Indian nationals - who find it even more offensive, but mainly because of their own prejudices and national obsessions...)

 

I think the main thing boils down to context, both historical and current. Although the Welsh have hardly been treated 'fairly' by the rest of Britian (I mean , they don't even get a look in on the flag); at least they haven't suffered a history of suppression, repression and genocide at the hands of the English (Scotland and Ireland).

 

So, back to the valleys with yer, you leak-munching sheep-****ging odd-shaped ball loving taff git. :-)

[cellone]

TBH I was being half serious as I seem to of taken banter to heart and then let it wind me up. I have often joked with friends on the subject and also know that the welsh nf is prolific

 

Throwing toy's out of cot, hard to take as serious.

 

Is it racist (or racisist)? A serious question as it strikes me as a pretty fine line.

 

Anyway cheers.

[SFC Forever]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFartPants

To be honest it is not a big issue really and certainly not even slightly comparable to making monkey noises at black people. It is also pretty blinkered to call Welsh people sheep ****gers, however, as I for one know many Welsh people and some of them don't do this.

 

 

Only some is more than none JFP

[miserableoldgit]

Erm, Are you sure about this? I mean if someone shouts out to a Glaswegian "Oi, Scottish Man" is this racism or merely statement of fact?

 

If they say "Oi, Scottish Tw*T" does this turn it into racism or is this merely 'verbal assualt'.

 

I also would say although it is common to refer to different National Identities as 'races' (The English Race for example - as used by the BNP etc) this is not technically correct.

 

Perhaps "Prejudice Based On Ethniticity" is a better term, with Xenophobia as the root cause.

 

Things get a bit more niggly with national identities and slang - for example - Afgahnistan nationals are Afgahns, Kurdistan nationals are Kurds, which SHOULD make ****stan nationals Paks. Of course we don't hear this at all, instead we hear a bastardised and very insulting version (more often leveled at at Indian nationals - who find it even more offensive, but mainly because of their own prejudices and national obsessions...)

 

I think the main thing boils down to context, both historical and current. Although the Welsh have hardly been treated 'fairly' by the rest of Britian (I mean , they don't even get a look in on the flag); at least they haven't suffered a history of suppression, repression and genocide at the hands of the English (Scotland and Ireland).

 

So, back to the valleys with yer, you leak-munching sheep-****ging odd-shaped ball loving taff git. :-)

On the other hand, of course, everyone could just bloody well grow up and use some common sense.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I was born in Dorset but having a (very) Welsh surname I too avoid the 'Sheep ****ger' jibe - I'm not really Welsh in any meaningful sense but I still can't watch the movie 'Zulu' without a sense of (entirely undeserved) pride for some spurious reason .

 

As for racism all the British peoples have become so interbred over the last 2000 years it's all just too absurd to take seriously in this day and age .

[Block 5]

Wiktionary says...............

 

 

race (countable and uncountable; plural races)

 

1. A large group of people distinguished from others on the basis of a common heritage.

 

The Anglo-Saxon race

 

2. A large group of people distinguished from others on the basis of common, genetically linked, physical characteristics, such as skin colour or hair type.

 

 

 

 

IMO the first definition would imply that to describe the Welsh as sheep sh*ggers would be considered rascist.

[IFHP]

I don't know about racist, but they are certainly incredibly dull and unfunny.

 

Like a lot of "posters" on here then.

[Weston Super Saint]

Wiktionary says...............

 

 

race (countable and uncountable; plural races)

 

1. A large group of people distinguished from others on the basis of a common heritage.

 

The Anglo-Saxon race

 

2. A large group of people distinguished from others on the basis of common, genetically linked, physical characteristics, such as skin colour or hair type.

 

 

 

 

IMO the first definition would imply that to describe the Welsh as sheep sh*ggers would be considered rascist.

 

Have you reached that conclusion because of their common heritage of sha99ing sheep?

[Window Cleaner]

Wiktionary says...............

 

 

race (countable and uncountable; plural races)

 

1. A large group of people distinguished from others on the basis of a common heritage.

 

The Anglo-Saxon race

 

2. A large group of people distinguished from others on the basis of common, genetically linked, physical characteristics, such as skin colour or hair type.

 

IMO the first definition would imply that to describe the Welsh as sheep sh*ggers would be considered rascist.

 

Most taffs are basically descended from the Brythonic celts rather than Anglo-Saxons.

In fact there are remarkable few anglo saxons nowadays, most English people are of mixed saxon/norman descent.

[SaintRobbie]

The Cardiff game is coming up with all the chants of "sheep ****gers" etc. After the last few games against them I'll be giving this one a miss because as a Welsh man I have no wish to be sat amoungst people hurling abuse that is also insulting to me a Saints fan.

 

 

My wife's Welsh. Baaaaa

 

 

We went to Ninian Park a couple of years ago and I laughed my head off when we sang England and sheep ****ger songs!

 

She laughed... didnt join in, but laughed. Why's it racist to say the Welsh **** sheep? Its true isnt it?

Edited 24 February, 2009 by SaintRobbie

[SaintRobbie]

A friend of mine caught his Muslim neighbour sh@gging a young sheep, he called the RSPCA but there was nothing they could do............ they said it was Islam

 

Oh dear... jihad called on Influenced.com

[Arizona]

I've never heard Three Lions sung in the 2 Cardiff games I've been to. Can we address this on Saturday please.

 

Thanks.

[Alain Perrin]

Most taffs are basically descended from the Brythonic celts rather than Anglo-Saxons.

 

Filthy b@stards those Brythonic Celts, they used to do goats as well....

[Alain Perrin]

What did the Cloned Sheep say to the other sheep?

 

I am ewe.

[jawillwill]

I've been to quite a few Swansea games this season, and I can tell you there's nothing more embarrasing than hearing the away fans singing sheep ****ger. Seriously,its more original so sing about Cardiff than sheep....and they get it just about every match. They don't care, and it's very small time.

 

I am quite fond of "You're welsh and you know you are" though. Brilliant.

[Weston Super Saint]

I've been to quite a few Swansea games this season, and I can tell you there's nothing more embarrasing than hearing the away fans singing sheep ****ger. Seriously,its more original so sing about Cardiff than sheep....and they get it just about every match. They don't care, and it's very small time.

 

I am quite fond of "You're welsh and you know you are" though. Brilliant.

 

Sheep ****ger.

[Ziggy]

I am Welsh. All I'm concerned about is three points on Sat. Having said that when playing Welsh teams I have taken issue when Welsh abuse is thrown as it upsets my young lads who ask why people are being so offensive toward the Welsh.

[Griffo]

Adding on from Jawillwill's post..

 

It is cringe-worthy when we sing "sheep****gers" to Cardiff or Swansea. They must hear it week in week out without it affecting them at all, they even ****ing sing 'Sheep****gers' themselves. Against Swansea in the Itchen, it was sung a few times and got ironic cheers from Swansea fans every time.

 

It is very, very, very smalltime.

[Block 5]

Have you reached that conclusion because of their common heritage of sha99ing sheep?

 

There is some other common Welsh heritage?

[Block 5]

Most taffs are basically descended from the Brythonic celts rather than Anglo-Saxons.

In fact there are remarkable few anglo saxons nowadays, most English people are of mixed saxon/norman descent.

 

Righty ho Mr Laadidaa Gunner Graham!

[Amesbury Saint]

I was born in Dorset but having a (very) Welsh surname I too avoid the 'Sheep ****ger' jibe - I'm not really Welsh in any meaningful sense but I still can't watch the movie 'Zulu' without a sense of (entirely undeserved) pride for some spurious reason .

 

As for racism all the British peoples have become so interbred over the last 2000 years it's all just too absurd to take seriously in this day and age .

 

Not sure how Welsh the troops at Rorkes Drift (1879) were.

 

The original regiment was the 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot (renamed the South Wales Borderers in 1881)

 

Most of the VC's awarded went to English soldiers.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorke's_Drift

[St. Mulv]

I'm not going to watch Saints again after hearing "you fat bastard chanted" at Parkin on Saturday, I can't believe we have such sizeist fans.

 

Hilarious. I just emitted a laugh, sometimes referred to as laughing out loud.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

barrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rammmmmmmmmmm youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Not sure how Welsh the troops at Rorkes Drift (1879) were.

 

The original regiment was the 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot (renamed the South Wales Borderers in 1881)

 

Most of the VC's awarded went to English soldiers.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorke's_Drift

 

 

Yes Amesbury I take the point .

 

I was (mistakenly) thinking more of the movie than the actual historical facts . Delving deeper into the pretty disastrous history of the 24th Foot it's surprising they managed to avoid their customary complete calamity again .

[Wes Tender]

To be honest it is not a big issue really and certainly not even slightly comparable to making monkey noises at black people. It is also pretty blinkered to call Welsh people sheep ****gers, however, as I for one know many Welsh people and some of them don't do this.

 

They're the ones who prefer goats.

[AK]

Hilarious. I just emitted a laugh, sometimes referred to as laughing out loud.

 

Thanks very much, as I post about once every year I try to make it worthwhile.Let's be honest this thread is a relief from " Lowe is The Devil ", "Oh no he is not" which dominate this board .

[Wes Tender]

Thanks very much, as I post about once every year I try to make it worthwhile.Let's be honest this thread is a relief from " Lowe is The Devil ", "Oh no he is not" which dominate this board .

 

Blimey! You've been posting for 52 years? That can't be, surely?

[eurosaint]

When they start singing "always sh1t on the English side of the bridge" on Saturday can I suggest that this is politely ignored because sheepsh@gger chants would no doubt be offensive to them !!!

[Dog]

When they start singing "always sh1t on the English side of the bridge" on Saturday can I suggest that this is politely ignored because sheepsh@gger chants would no doubt be offensive to them !!!

 

 

They only sing that because we have better toilets, and not a f*cking brick sh:t house.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

The Cardiff game is coming up with all the chants of "sheep ****gers" etc. After the last few games against them I'll be giving this one a miss because as a Welsh man I have no wish to be sat amoungst people hurling abuse that is also insulting to me a Saints fan.

 

I see no difference between this and making monkey noises and the like to black people.

 

I don't think it's racist at all - although the majority of sheep are white and curly-haired, there are black curly-haired ones as well. And they aren't all welsh sheep either, some might have come from the Cotswolds.

 

So I think actually you would be praising them about how undiscriminating the Cardiff fans are. After all, they are a Welsh club playing in an English league, they deserve all the credit.

[LGTL]

I cringe when that song comes out, as if they don't hear it anywhere else....

[Cricketphilly]

Get a grip

[SaintJim]

Is it racist? No

 

Is it stupid to think that it was? Yes

 

and i thought the Welsh were tough...

[SaintJim]

it has been proven that welsh people do like to dip their wicks into the fluffy white grass munchers,they have been caught doing it on numerous occasions but black people do not swing from the trees,eat bananas like they are going out of fashion or groom each other for lice.

i suggest that if you are easily upset by a bit of chanting then i would steer clear of football grounds and stick to a sport that the welsh are good at........chasing sheep around a field with your mint sauce covered knob hanging out :-)

 

seriously that is way too funny