Wotte is the new version of Pearson...

[um pahars]

I just feel for Um Pahars, his nephew and They had all written off Wotte before he had warmed the head coaches chair. They must be gutted.

 

Of course I'm gutted, so gutted that despite us wanting to lose every match I still go to St Mary's and cheer us on at every opportunity. :rolleyes:

 

You must live some strange life if you imagine I'd be gutted at seeing Saints win. Next time you go to a match Bern, pop in the Pensioners after we've won and see just how gutted I am;)

 

Here's some things my nephew and I typed out together just after Wotte was appointed:

Just as I genuinely hoped Jan could pull it off, I hope Wotte will do the same. He and his team will get my support at matches, so I'm happy to live up to my side of the bargain (that's not unconditional support BTW).

 

 

I think Wotte has already proved that he is much more flexible than Poortvliet and he has also recognised the folly of the strategy that we went with for the first 28 games.

 

 

Whether he is able to just throw away all the baggage from the first 28 games and move us forward is something we will have to judge him on in the run in.

 

 

 

Just look at the way I had written Wotte off:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048

[trousers]

Wotte got three wins in a row already, with a much weaker squad but he is a tatics expert, playing a 442 diamond with all the players even the subsitutes reach their full strength.

 

Anyone know if Wotte employed these winning 4-4-2 diamond tactics we are seeing today whilst he was manager of the reserves and/or academy team(s)?

 

However, given part of his remit was to seamlessly integrate the reserves & academy players with the 1st team one assumes he was actually embracing and copying what Poortvliet was doing with the 1st team, otherwise how would this seamless integration have worked?

 

Good to see that he's done a u-turn now though.

[Frank's cousin]

Think its a little unfair to compare the two - Pearson did the job with his set of circumstances.... Wotte is doing surprizingly well with his, but with the others around us also doing well, there is still a long way to go.

 

I was stunned that we went for Wotte after JP, because like many i a) did not really have a clue why he was here given JP, and b) felt it would be more of the same. BUt was always at least willing to give him a chance even as against the grain of logic it was.

 

I am just GLAD there is at this moment a small slice of humble pie to be eaten by some...and yes UP included... but not because i enjoy that thought (OK well maybe just a tad), but simply because we have won 3 on the bounce and now stand a realistic chance of avoiding the drop. I would suggest that those eating humble pie right now, probably dont mind the taste too much as naturally Saints success comes before our egos... ;-)

[sadoldgit]

Steady SOG... ;-)

 

You know where I am coming from FC. Just because it was a Lowe decision it had to be ripped to shreds by some.

 

Still a lot to do but surely we must all feel now that we have turned a corner?

 

Time to put petty differences aside and get behind Wotte.

[um pahars]

LOL, good on ya for pwning UP.

 

Are you 12:D

 

Good to see you've emerged from the low profile you kept when Poortvliet was doing the business (of sending us down). I can clearly remember all the noddy stick you were handing out when I suggested he may not be all he's cracked up to be;)

 

I don't have to readjust my stance with regards Wotte, because I was more than happy to judge him on results, in exactly the same way I judged Pearson (see my little trawl for SOG:D)

 

I admit I was quicker on the offensive with Poortvliet, but then again it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that he was going to be out of his depth (although you thought he was the bestest).

 

Am I allowed to say you've been ownde LOL;)

[trousers]

Irrespective of what happened before, it is what happens now and until the end of the season that matters.

 

Indeed it is.

 

Am happy to wait until we're safe before we get the answers to why Wotte wasn't made No.1 from the off.

[um pahars]

I am just GLAD there is at this moment a small slice of humble pie to be eaten by some...and yes UP included...

 

Why should I be eating humble pie???

 

You must be getting me confused with someone else, or trying to deflect attention away from all those who thought Poortvliet would do the business.

 

Wotte has had nothing but my support (apart from one little dig aimed at Sundance Beast). I was more than happy to judge him by his results and never claimed he would be a success or a failure.

 

Why should I be eating humble pie, the bloke's doing well, he's recognised the mistakes made in the first 28 games (and as he was a part of those mistakes, then maybe it was easier for him to see) and Ill give him my support, just as I said I would when he was appointed.

 

Some strange posts on here tonight:D:D

[Frank's cousin]

You know where I am coming from FC. Just because it was a Lowe decision it had to be ripped to shreds by some.

 

Still a lot to do but surely we must all feel now that we have turned a corner?

 

Time to put petty differences aside and get behind Wotte.

 

Given the amount of mileage UP and others gained from even remotely suggesting there might have been some logc in the JP/Wotte thing, its understandable that there might be a little enjoyment in seeng the guy succeed over and above the usual saints wins... ;-) but TBF, you are right, its a perfect opportunity to encourage the naysayers back to the ground, to get behind teh lads, swell the gate and the coffers and cheer us on to survial - I think with the exception of Stanley, everyone else wants that at the very least - the fall out ca come close season, but IF we survive, i suggest we might actually have something to build on... oh and offer Euell a new contract now!

[sadoldgit]

Apart from being pleased that Wotte seems to have a bit more going for him than some other managers we have had, I am really chuffed for Euell and Davis. Both have come in for heavy stick but both have turned things round and who would be without them now?

Just shows how wrong it is to write people off so soon eh?

It has been a bumpy rid but at least we finally have something to cheer about this season.

[Frank's cousin]

Why should I be eating humble pie???

 

You must be getting me confused with someone else, or trying to deflect attention away from all those who thought Poortvliet would do the business.

 

Wotte has had nothing but my support (apart from one little dig aimed at Sundance Beast). I was more than happy to judge him by his results and never claimed he would be a success or a failure.

 

Why should I be eating humble pie, the bloke's doing well, he's recognised the mistakes made in the first 28 games (and as he was a part of those mistakes, then maybe it was easier for him to see) and Ill give him my support, just as I said I would when he was appointed.

 

Some strange posts on here tonight:D:D

 

If you say so UP ;-) just glad that with such results we have the opportunity to clash over something so trivial and as a result of success rather than failure and I would suggest you would drink to that! As many have said, there is still alot of work to be done, given the results around us, but if we win 4 or 5 more and still go down, then it cant be down to Wotte.

[trousers]

Some strange posts on here tonight:D:D

 

I believe it's something to do with B&Q selling off airbrushes at half price today

 

I do find it strange that some believe one can't be chuffed and frustrated at the same time. But hey ho.....in a roundabout way I think we're all in agreement that the last 3 results are a pleasant surprise given where we were a few weeks ago.

 

cheers and good night

[um pahars]

Given the amount of mileage UP and others gained from even remotely suggesting there might have been some logc in the JP/Wotte thing' date='[/quote']

 

There was minimal logic in the Poortvliet/Wotte/Henderson/Hockaday Revolutionary Coaching Set Up, with Poortvliet in charge and the youngsters making up the majority of the team, with the coach suggesting they only knew how to play one way, the oldies didn't understand the youngsters and players like Skacel & Euell not getting a game etc etc etc.

 

And thankfully we've now undertaken a U turn and gone for a much more logical, organised, balanced and professional set up.

 

There's certainly logic there, the same logic that many were screaming out for from day one, whilst you and others were wkning their legs off over the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up;)

[sadoldgit]

Of course Steve is 100% behind Wotte, there are dozens of posts to prove it! LOL

 

Anyway he doesn't have much choice now does he. He has been banging on about Pearson all season and now that magic total of 3 wins has been achieved by another manager in only 3 games.

 

We can expect Steve and his nephew to spend the rest of the season telling us how Lowe should have put Wotte in charge all along.

 

Feel free to add as many rolley eyed things as you like here UP.

[um pahars]

We can expect Steve and his nephew to spend the rest of the season telling us how Lowe should have put Wotte in charge all along.

 

Given his record, you could have put my nephew in charge from last August and he would probably have done better than Poortvliet.:smt048:rolleyes:

 

Feb 2009 = Year Zero LOL

[saintstr1]

I dont understand why so much negativity on here tonight , Regardless of any like or dislike of Wotte you cant argue with the results ........ For the first time in a couple of months our future is in our own hands. We have a game in hand over Blackpool directly above us , win that and we are out of the bottom three ....... Hopefully push on from there. 2 months ago I thought we were well and truely down, Now there is hope.

[um pahars]

I dont understand why so much negativity on here tonight , Regardless of any like or dislike of Wotte you cant argue with the results ........ For the first time in a couple of months our future is in our own hands. We have a game in hand over Blackpool directly above us , win that and we are out of the bottom three ....... Hopefully push on from there. 2 months ago I thought we were well and truely down, Now there is hope.

 

It gets even better when you consider we have to travel to Blackpool, so three points there will be massive for us.

[NickG]

It gets even better when you consider we have to travel to Blackpool, so three points there will be massive for us.

 

It gets even better when you consider we have to travel to Blackpool, so three points there will be massive for us.

 

Norwich, Charlton, Blackpool and Barnsley would be looking at this current form and getting worried

 

 

current form

http://www.4thegame.com/statistics/championship/tables/currentform.html

 

 

league table

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/table/default.stm

[um pahars]

Still giggling at Frank and SOG's ideas that those who opposed Poortvliet and the Total Revolutionary Coaching Set Up should be eating humble pie and are now gutted because Saints are winning LOL.

 

Only a slight rewrite of history boys, and only slightly ignoring the sea change that the Club has undertaken in recent games.

 

Why eat humble pie, when almost everything that you have prophecised has come to fruition?

 

Surely those who blindly believed Lowe had got it right with Poortvliet and the folly of that strategy should be the ones scoffing it, as with each win under Wotte, using a balanced side and getting the basics right, it just hammers home the crass stupidity of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up (and before you, or Lowe, claims this was a part of the master plan :-$, it wasn't and what we are seeing now is a million miles away from the original premise).

 

How could anyone be gutted when almost everything they have been asking for has been delivered and the U turn necessary to turn this season around looks as though it may achieve it's desired affect.

 

How can I be gutted?, when:

 

We have finally given the boot to the manager who I believed was taking us down.

 

We have finally ditched the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up in favour of a more traditional set up, which was something I wanted.

 

We have ditched the Total Football in favour of much more traditional line up and formation, as I believed was necessary.

 

We have ditched the folly of going with youth in favour of a more balanced side, which was something I wanted from day one.

 

We are now making the best use of our resources and not freezing out those players who could make a difference, something else that has been mentioned numerous times.

 

And of course, finally, how could any real Saints fan be gutted when their team starts winning?

 

I'm not claiming to be some football visionary, because I was not the only one to realise that football isn't rocket science, you don't have to be revolutionary and that this season was not the time for experiments and ego driven strategies.

 

And the only reason I could even be deemed to be remotely gutted would be that I'm frustrated and concerned that we had to waste 28 games of the season pursuing one man's ridiculous vision, driven mainly by his ego, a vision that was gambling with the very future of our Club.

 

And if there's any humble pie to be eaten, it is by those who instigated and then supported the folly of Total Football by the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up.

 

Good work fellas:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048

[paris]

Nicely put ,at the end of the day as long as we keep winning i'm happy whoever is in charge..

COYR.

 

Still giggling at Frank and SOG's ideas that those who opposed Poortvliet and the Total Revolutionary Coaching Set Up should be eating humble pie and are now gutted because Saints are winning LOL.

 

Only a slight rewrite of history boys, and only slightly ignoring the sea change that the Club has undertaken in recent games.

 

Why eat humble pie, when almost everything that you have prophecised has come to fruition?

 

Surely those who blindly believed Lowe had got it right with Poortvliet and the folly of that strategy should be the ones scoffing it, as with each win under Wotte, using a balanced side and getting the basics right, it just hammers home the crass stupidity of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up (and before you, or Lowe, claims this was a part of the master plan :-$, it wasn't and what we are seeing now is a million miles away from the original premise).

 

How could anyone be gutted when almost everything they have been asking for has been delivered and the U turn necessary to turn this season around looks as though it may achieve it's desired affect.

 

How can I be gutted?, when:

 

We have finally given the boot to the manager who I believed was taking us down.

 

We have finally ditched the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up in favour of a more traditional set up, which was something I wanted.

 

We have ditched the Total Football in favour of much more traditional line up and formation, as I believed was necessary.

 

We have ditched the folly of going with youth in favour of a more balanced side, which was something I wanted from day one.

 

We are now making the best use of our resources and not freezing out those players who could make a difference, something else that has been mentioned numerous times.

 

And of course, finally, how could any real Saints fan be gutted when their team starts winning?

 

I'm not claiming to be some football visionary, because I was not the only one to realise that football isn't rocket science, you don't have to be revolutionary and that this season was not the time for experiments and ego driven strategies.

 

And the only reason I could even be deemed to be remotely gutted would be that I'm frustrated and concerned that we had to waste 28 games of the season pursuing one man's ridiculous vision, driven mainly by his ego, a vision that was gambling with the very future of our Club.

 

And if there's any humble pie to be eaten, it is by those who instigated and then supported the folly of Total Football by the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up.

 

Good work fellas:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048

[Mole]

Using 23 smilies in one thread is a bit retarded imo.

[alpine_saint]

Seeing as we are not allowed to post anything else today :

 

Mark Wotte is the next Alex Ferguson, not the next Nigel Pearson

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Given that Wotte has managed in 3 games what Pearson took 13 to do, I think my spelling is not such a great deal do you Wes?

 

I just feel for Um Pahars, his nephew and Alpine tonight, oh, and the club historian. They had all written off Wotte before he had warmed the head coaches chair. They must be gutted.

 

Still a long way to go but despite his apparent dodgy hair, being Dutch and being despised by the players, he hasn't done too badly has he???

 

 

Bern, its posts like this that make people think you really are a "sad old git".

If you had been in my front room last night at 9.40 you would have seen how "gutted" I was at our victory.

If you had been at SMS sitting next to me for the Preston and Cardiff games you would have seen how "gutted" I was at our victories. Instead of sniping on here why don't you actually get off your arse just once and actually come and physically "support" the team with your presence and stop deriding fans that still make the effort.

 

I don't like Lowe and I am unconvinced over Wotte but from now on in, until the end of the season when I believe there should be a wash-up, I will support the team 100% both vocally and financially by attending matches and cheering them on. I do this because I still love my club. Do you?

[alpine_saint]

Given that Wotte has managed in 3 games what Pearson took 13 to do, I think my spelling is not such a great deal do you Wes?

 

I just feel for Um Pahars, his nephew and Alpine tonight, oh, and the club historian. They had all written off Wotte before he had warmed the head coaches chair. They must be gutted.

 

Still a long way to go but despite his apparent dodgy hair, being Dutch and being despised by the players, he hasn't done too badly has he???

 

I'd love to know how this doesnt constitute trolling.

 

Grow up. We are all delighted that we hammered Ipswich last night.

[Scudamore]

I'd love to know how this doesnt constitute trolling.

 

Grow up. We are all delighted that we hammered Ipswich last night.

 

For someone so "delighted" you seem a little cranky this morning alpine?

[INFLUENCED.COM]

If you had been in my front room last night at 9.40 you would have seen how "gutted" I was at our victory.

If you had been at SMS sitting next to me for the Preston and Cardiff games you would have seen how "gutted" I was at our victories.

 

As were, I imagine all Saints supporters, I do not believe for a moment that, even Stanley, was not watching the scoreline and pleased with the win, as said many times before you can dislike Lowe all you like and still support the team it does not constitute a conflict of interest(even if you believe admin will rid the club of Lowe)

[OldNick]

Bern, its posts like this that make people think you really are a "sad old git".

If you had been in my front room last night at 9.40 you would have seen how "gutted" I was at our victory.

If you had been at SMS sitting next to me for the Preston and Cardiff games you would have seen how "gutted" I was at our victories. Instead of sniping on here why don't you actually get off your arse just once and actually come and physically "support" the team with your presence and stop deriding fans that still make the effort.

 

I don't like Lowe and I am unconvinced over Wotte but from now on in, until the end of the season when I believe there should be a wash-up, I will support the team 100% both vocally and financially by attending matches and cheering them on. I do this because I still love my club. Do you?

I myself have to hold my hand up.I recall when Wotte was announced manager I put up a post saying it'was like swopping the village idiot for Baldrick'

I was then told by some friends at the club how things had changed under him and how the morale had lifted. i then got behing Wotte and asked for fans to give him 5 games before judging. So far so good.It is not over but we have a start and a few smiles again.

Edited 4 March, 2009 by OldNick

[trousers]

I myself have to hold my hand up.I recall when Wotte was announced manager I put up a post saying it'was like swopping the village idiot for Baldrick'

 

Indeed. Many of us let out a collective groan when Poortvliet was replaced with Wotte because there was a valid belief that we were replacing like-for-like.

 

How were we to know that Wotte was going to do a u-turn on the 'total football' strategy that he was part of bringing to the club? How were we to know he had a remit to play a better blend of seniors and youngsters than Poortvliet was seemingly 'allowed' to?

 

There was no statement from the club at the time saying "We've given the job to Wotte and, oh, by the way he's going to ditch the dogmatic 4-3-3 tactics and start playing some of the more senior players on a regular basis".

 

If there had been an announcment to that effect when he took over then many of us would have been more receptive to the idea.

 

So, just to clear this up once and for all, those that were sceptical about Wotte taking over from Poortvliet were NOT sceptical about the man himself per se, rather they were concerned that he would continue with the flawed strategy that he had been an integral devotee to for the previous 9 months.

 

I know it's not in some posters' interests to acknowledge this difference but hey ho.

Edited 4 March, 2009 by trousers

[Scudamore]

Indeed. Many of us let out a collective groan when Poortvliet was replaced with Wotte because there was a valid belief that we were replacing like-for-like.

 

How were we to know that Wotte was going to do a u-turn on the 'total football' strategy that he was part of bringing to the club? How were we to know he had a remit to play a better blend of seniors and youngsters than Poortvliet was seemingly 'allowed' to?

 

There was no statement from the club at the time saying "We've given the job to Wotte and, oh, by the way he's going to ditch the dogmatic 4-3-3 tactics and start playing some of the more senior players on a regular basis".

 

If there had been an announcment to that effect when he took over then many of us would have been more receptive to the idea.

 

So, just to clear this up once and for all, those that were sceptical about Wotte taking over from Poortvliet were NOT sceptical about the man himself per se, rather they were concerned that he would continue with the flawed strategy that he had been an integral devotee to for the previous 9 months.

 

I know it's not in some posters' interests to acknowledge this difference but hey ho.

 

And many would have accepted that as admission of making a mistake...

 

You were never gonna get that rightly or wrongly...

[trousers]

and many would have accepted that as admission of making a mistake...

 

 

q.e.d.

 

edit: damn website won't let me type capitals on their own. FFS.

[Scudamore]

q.e.d.

 

edit: damn website won't let me type capitals on their own. FFS.

 

MI5 not...

 

 

Edit. Let me do capitals.

[alpine_saint]

Still giggling at Frank and SOG's ideas that those who opposed Poortvliet and the Total Revolutionary Coaching Set Up should be eating humble pie and are now gutted because Saints are winning LOL.

 

Only a slight rewrite of history boys, and only slightly ignoring the sea change that the Club has undertaken in recent games.

 

Why eat humble pie, when almost everything that you have prophecised has come to fruition?

 

Surely those who blindly believed Lowe had got it right with Poortvliet and the folly of that strategy should be the ones scoffing it, as with each win under Wotte, using a balanced side and getting the basics right, it just hammers home the crass stupidity of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up (and before you, or Lowe, claims this was a part of the master plan :-$, it wasn't and what we are seeing now is a million miles away from the original premise).

 

How could anyone be gutted when almost everything they have been asking for has been delivered and the U turn necessary to turn this season around looks as though it may achieve it's desired affect.

 

How can I be gutted?, when:

 

We have finally given the boot to the manager who I believed was taking us down.

 

We have finally ditched the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up in favour of a more traditional set up, which was something I wanted.

 

We have ditched the Total Football in favour of much more traditional line up and formation, as I believed was necessary.

 

We have ditched the folly of going with youth in favour of a more balanced side, which was something I wanted from day one.

 

We are now making the best use of our resources and not freezing out those players who could make a difference, something else that has been mentioned numerous times.

 

And of course, finally, how could any real Saints fan be gutted when their team starts winning?

 

I'm not claiming to be some football visionary, because I was not the only one to realise that football isn't rocket science, you don't have to be revolutionary and that this season was not the time for experiments and ego driven strategies.

 

And the only reason I could even be deemed to be remotely gutted would be that I'm frustrated and concerned that we had to waste 28 games of the season pursuing one man's ridiculous vision, driven mainly by his ego, a vision that was gambling with the very future of our Club.

 

And if there's any humble pie to be eaten, it is by those who instigated and then supported the folly of Total Football by the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up.

 

Good work fellas:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048

 

Completely agree. The slant those two are talking when they were wrong and we were right is bizarre. But then, hillariously, it really is about Lowe for them, something they keep accusing us of...

[alpine_saint]

For someone so "delighted" you seem a little cranky this morning alpine?

 

Probably at the way many of you have responded to victory by trying to bait everyone on here you have disagreed with.

 

nickh apparently thinks I am "panicking" because we have started winning...:rolleyes:

[trousers]

 

Edit. Let me do capitals.

 

Seems to work if followed by another word....curious. This is going to keep me awake at night.

[trousers]

Two test posts to follow....

[trousers]

Qed

[Saint Martini]

The first two pages of this thread are very very funny. Golden posts material IMHO.

 

I do find it funny that some people (just look at the first to pages for specific names) wrote of Wotte as more of the same. If those people had only looked at the previous teams he managed and the way he played there they would have known that he was always going to be very very different from JP.

 

Being Dutch doesn't make someone a poor manager.

Being Dutch doesn't make someone a manager that wants to play 4-3-3.

Being Dutch doesn't mean you can't manage in the CCC.

And just because Wotte is quick to speak about the boardroom situation when he probably should have kept his mouth shut doesn't make him a bad manager either (although, when the protesters are carrying banners asking for your removal maybe that influences your judgement a bit?).

 

Lets just enjoy this run we're on and hope it continues and perhaps maybe we should wait a bit longer then 3/4 matches before judging a manager next time.

[trousers]

QED followed by other words

[trousers]

There you go.

 

Weird (ish)

[trousers]

I do find it funny that some people (just look at the first to pages for specific names) wrote of Wotte as more of the same. If those people had only looked at the previous teams he managed and the way he played there they would have known that he was always going to be very very different from JP.

 

I respectfully disagree with that analysis (i.e. I don't find the opposite view to mine "funny")

 

He signed up to the 'experiment' with Lowe and Poortvliet so why would it be more valid to assume that he would revert to a previous incarnation of himself when swapping jobs with Poortvliet rather than continuing with what he helped instigate here?

 

Either would be a perfectly valid assumption IMHO.

[alpine_saint]

I respectfully disagree with that analysis (i.e. I don't find the opposite view to mine "funny")

 

He signed up to the 'experiment' with Lowe and Poortvliet so why would it be more valid to assume that he would revert to a previous incarnation of himself when swapping jobs with Poortvliet rather than continuing with what he helped instigate here?

 

Either would be a perfectly valid assumption IMHO.

 

Exactly.

[Saint Martini]

I respectfully disagree with that analysis (i.e. I don't find the opposite view to mine "funny")

He signed up to the 'experiment' with Lowe and Poortvliet so why would it be more valid to assume that he would revert to a previous incarnation of himself when swapping jobs with Poortvliet rather than continuing with what he helped instigate here?

 

Either would be a perfectly valid assumption IMHO.

 

First of all, its not the opposite view I find funny, if anything I had doubts about Wotte but I wasn't going to judge after 4 matches. This kneejerk reaction being proven wrong is funny.

 

Secondly why, would either assumption be valid? One is based on him apparently completely agreeing with JP (which I doubt he did) and the other on previous actions by Wotte himself. Now which one would you say has more validity?

[Window Cleaner]

No he isn't ,Wotte knows that winning matches is what's required not getting draws. If we'd gone for the draw against Sheffield Utd we'd have probably have got it.

Wotte 11 points from 7 games

Pearson (not counting Plymouth) 16 points from 14 games.

 

Mind you we weren't as low down when Pearson started, a few draws saw us slide away.

Pearson did OK, but with his record against Wotte's we'd be virtually relegated by now.

[trousers]

First of all, its not the opposite view I find funny, if anything I had doubts about Wotte but I wasn't going to judge after 4 matches. This kneejerk reaction being proven wrong is funny.

 

Secondly why, would either assumption be valid? One is based on him apparently completely agreeing with JP (which I doubt he did) and the other on previous actions by Wotte himself. Now which one would you say has more validity?

 

IMHO?

 

I truly believed him continuing with the 'experiment' he helped implement was the most likely scenario. Ok, it turned out to be the wrong assumption but I disagree that it was less valid than the opposite assumption.

 

So, neither 'side' on this debate is right or wrong.

 

Again, just my opinion.

[up and away]

Still giggling at Frank and SOG's ideas that those who opposed Poortvliet and the Total Revolutionary Coaching Set Up should be eating humble pie and are now gutted because Saints are winning LOL.

 

Only a slight rewrite of history boys, and only slightly ignoring the sea change that the Club has undertaken in recent games.

 

Why eat humble pie, when almost everything that you have prophecised has come to fruition?

 

Surely those who blindly believed Lowe had got it right with Poortvliet and the folly of that strategy should be the ones scoffing it, as with each win under Wotte, using a balanced side and getting the basics right, it just hammers home the crass stupidity of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up (and before you, or Lowe, claims this was a part of the master plan :-$, it wasn't and what we are seeing now is a million miles away from the original premise).

 

How could anyone be gutted when almost everything they have been asking for has been delivered and the U turn necessary to turn this season around looks as though it may achieve it's desired affect.

 

How can I be gutted?, when:

 

We have finally given the boot to the manager who I believed was taking us down.

 

We have finally ditched the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up in favour of a more traditional set up, which was something I wanted.

 

We have ditched the Total Football in favour of much more traditional line up and formation, as I believed was necessary.

 

We have ditched the folly of going with youth in favour of a more balanced side, which was something I wanted from day one.

 

We are now making the best use of our resources and not freezing out those players who could make a difference, something else that has been mentioned numerous times.

 

And of course, finally, how could any real Saints fan be gutted when their team starts winning?

 

I'm not claiming to be some football visionary, because I was not the only one to realise that football isn't rocket science, you don't have to be revolutionary and that this season was not the time for experiments and ego driven strategies.

 

And the only reason I could even be deemed to be remotely gutted would be that I'm frustrated and concerned that we had to waste 28 games of the season pursuing one man's ridiculous vision, driven mainly by his ego, a vision that was gambling with the very future of our Club.

 

And if there's any humble pie to be eaten, it is by those who instigated and then supported the folly of Total Football by the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up.

 

Good work fellas:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048

 

 

 

 

You do talk some ******.

• The prime reason we are STILL using so many youth players is because of our financial situation.
  
• The reason why we were trying to force players out was because of our financial position.
  
• The reason we were not using all the senior players when available was because of the bonuses, which again is because of our financial position.
  

Just in case you believe we have abandoned our youth, just look through the comments from the Ipswich fans from last nights game.

Words of praise from the Tractorboys...

Poortvliet would have used Size, happy enough to try Svennson when available. happy enough to use Stern John when available and if he had the nous to try Euell at centre forward would more than likely have ben happy to use him there. The passing and interchange between the young players is still very similar to Poortvliet, but with a noticeable difference from Size and Euell at centre forward, such that the whole balance is that much better. The other reason we have not been investing in experienced pro's is what we can actually get for our money. We are in competition with League 1 clubs for players and sometimes not even up to that standard. You will have seen references in the past, to not bringing in players that are not already better, than the youngsters we all ready have (or soon to be). In reality we have got lucky with Size and that's about it, the rest are just the expensive pro's no one else wanted from our squad which we now have the luxury of using (thank goodness).

 

You are so desperate to avoid any possible credit being linked back to Lowe that you come up with these charades. There has been one prime aim this season, to overcome our financial issues and try and stay in this division. For obvious reasons Lowe has sold this as a positive step, but in reality there was no other practical choice. Lowe stated clearly at the beginning of the season that we had lost too much from our youth squad and we must use them or continue to lose them. Happily we seem to have found the right balance for the moment, whilst satisfying that criteria.

 

Some like yourself believe we have the financial flexibility to decide our own fate with how many senior pro's we retain and others we bring in. I don't see that from all the comments and financial mess we are in. We have a very tenuous link of faith with the bank at present, try and force that direction and they can easily say "off you go and do what you want, but not with our money".

[um pahars]

First of all, its not the opposite view I find funny, if anything I had doubts about Wotte but I wasn't going to judge after 4 matches. This kneejerk reaction being proven wrong is funny.

 

Secondly why, would either assumption be valid? One is based on him apparently completely agreeing with JP (which I doubt he did) and the other on previous actions by Wotte himself. Now which one would you say has more validity?

 

But I can see both sides though fella.

 

When Wotte was first appointed, you, I and I think SaintJay had a good exchange of views over his record, reputation, background etc, and although we had differing views on some things, the general consensus was that we had to judge over the results during the run in and that as he was the man in situ it was only right that we backed him. Of course, that won't stop me from giving him a rollicking if he takes Saga off when we're behind and then says he's not productive;)!!!!!!

 

But I can also understand some people's concerns given he was, to whatever degree, involved with the 28 game farce under Poortvliet. Indeed, I found it somewhat distatsteful how Poortvliet was hung out to dry, when for the previous 28 games + pre season we were always told it was a Revolutionary Coaching set Up with interchangeable whatevers!!! Given we had been throught the mill for 28 games and staring relegation and administration squarely in the face, then I think it's understandable how some may have got tetchy.

 

Sadly, some struggle to reconcile either position.

Edited 4 March, 2009 by um pahars

[sotonist]

Looks more like an equivalent to Pearson than an equivalent to Wigley now, and i couldn't be happier with that. Here's hoping it continues.

[Frank's cousin]

Still giggling at Frank and SOG's ideas that those who opposed Poortvliet and the Total Revolutionary Coaching Set Up should be eating humble pie and are now gutted because Saints are winning LOL.

 

Only a slight rewrite of history boys, and only slightly ignoring the sea change that the Club has undertaken in recent games.

 

Why eat humble pie, when almost everything that you have prophecised has come to fruition?

 

Surely those who blindly believed Lowe had got it right with Poortvliet and the folly of that strategy should be the ones scoffing it, as with each win under Wotte, using a balanced side and getting the basics right, it just hammers home the crass stupidity of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up (and before you, or Lowe, claims this was a part of the master plan :-$, it wasn't and what we are seeing now is a million miles away from the original premise).

 

How could anyone be gutted when almost everything they have been asking for has been delivered and the U turn necessary to turn this season around looks as though it may achieve it's desired affect.

 

How can I be gutted?, when:

 

We have finally given the boot to the manager who I believed was taking us down.

 

We have finally ditched the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up in favour of a more traditional set up, which was something I wanted.

 

We have ditched the Total Football in favour of much more traditional line up and formation, as I believed was necessary.

 

We have ditched the folly of going with youth in favour of a more balanced side, which was something I wanted from day one.

 

We are now making the best use of our resources and not freezing out those players who could make a difference, something else that has been mentioned numerous times.

 

And of course, finally, how could any real Saints fan be gutted when their team starts winning?

 

I'm not claiming to be some football visionary, because I was not the only one to realise that football isn't rocket science, you don't have to be revolutionary and that this season was not the time for experiments and ego driven strategies.

 

And the only reason I could even be deemed to be remotely gutted would be that I'm frustrated and concerned that we had to waste 28 games of the season pursuing one man's ridiculous vision, driven mainly by his ego, a vision that was gambling with the very future of our Club.

 

And if there's any humble pie to be eaten, it is by those who instigated and then supported the folly of Total Football by the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up.

 

Good work fellas:rolleyes::smt048:rolleyes::smt048

 

Rather a lot of twaddle and a tad defensive if you ask me ;-) (although arrogance also springs to mind)

 

You seem to once again be not so much as rewriting history but making it up - either that or you completely for whatever reason have the totally wrong impression from previous posts... Where has anyone historically said they blindly believed in JP? All I have ever said is I believed that there was LOGIC in the initial decison, something born out by the initially promising results -and felt it right to support the team and manager - it failed, we all agreed on that - but there have been plenty ,you included and me included who thought that Wotte would deliver more of the same - I am happy that he has changed direction - and he has proved me wrong on that account, but what I find incredulous is that this is another classic case of inconsistency in forming opinions. When JP was here the crap play and performances was because Lowe was picking the team and it was all Lowe's fault, fair enough if true, but now Wotte is doing OK so far, where are the accusations of Lowe picking the team ? Or interfering or whatever else ****** some have written? And you certainly contributed to that with 'insider' knowledge.

 

You claim we wasted 28 games - but as I said previously (and to which you decided not to respond to) untiol we know the TRUTH about the finacial situations its impossible to make such a statement - its just speculation to assume we could have had the same players here now for the past 28 games.... Sure as I stated Lowe would have taken the extreme view which was a mistake, the clear out too far, but neither do I believe we could have used everyone for teh whole season on the particular contracts without sending some out on loan etc.. I suspect the actual truth is somewhere in between, although I am sure you have 'evidence' from your contacts, who naturally dont ahve any axe to grind and are therefore completely impartial' that thats not the case.......

 

Oh and you are too harsh on yourself, from your post its a FACT, you are inded a true visonary as everything you say comes true. I vote UP for Chairman! ;-)

[Torres]

Quite, FC.

 

Um Pahars is still banging the drum about the false economy of loaning Saga to Aalborg when he hasn't produced a shred of evidence to suggest that the decision wasn't taken under serious pressure from Barclays.

 

UP, given that you're so convinced by this "false economy" line, perhaps you could asnwer some questions I put to you before:

 

What is Saga's basic wage?

What are his bonuses?

How much of his wage was paid by Aalborg?

What loan fee did we get from them?

Who made the decision to send him on loan?

What were the reasons for the loan?

 

Until you have the factual answers to these basic questions then there is no knowing whether or not his loan was a "false economy" - and the same goes for successful and unsuccesful attempts to loan or sell all of our top earners. Until we know the details behind these decisions it's plainly daft to write the whole thing off as some crazy and unnecessary experiment.

 

Unless you're actually believing the OS "revolutionary coaching setup" spin, in which case I think you might be just a tad naive...

[St Marco]

I will hold my hands up and say i was not happy about the appointment of Wotte. Replacing the old guy who failed with the coach below him rarely ever works. I think what is important is that most people thought he would continue on in the dutch system Lowe had installed. If he had i don't think we would be seeing threads like these. He changed the system and changed back to an English system, one which works.

 

I don't like the way the guy talks, don't like his chummyness with the board etc but what matters most to me is the results on the pitch. And he is getting the results. We have just won 3 games against 3 very good teams. Granted they all played **** but we didn't let them have the chance to play, that is important.

 

Wotte deserves a huge amount of credit. When he was appointed i never had a go at him, never said anything bad. I said he is our manager and we should now support him. I think a lot of people felt the same. He wasen't our choice but at least give him the same chance we gave people before him. He is doing all the right things on the pitch even if he isn't off it, but thats ok, i would rather it is the way it is then the other way round.

 

But as much as he deserves praise i think we have to think on the side of caution. We are still 3 points in the drop zone (due to GD) and we have a very hard run in of games with Birmingham,Derby and QPR. Three wins can easily turn into three defeats such is the nature of this league. If that happens no doubt people will swing back the other way but they shouldn't. Truth is we are in trouble, we are the ones having to win games to get out of the position we are in, we have a long way to go. If we can get a few more results under our belt we will be in with a huge chance to stay up. The faith has returned to the club, the results and performances are the reason for it. As long as the results continue we will continue to be happy.

 

So i will wait until the end of the season before i judge Wotte, he has my full support until then win or lose. If he keeps us up he deserves the job and all the praise in the world. If he doesn't and we go on a bad run then a lot of people proclaiming the second coming will look very silly. And if there is one thing i have learnt through the many years of being a Saints fan is that to assume anything will always cost you in the end.

[Frank's cousin]

Ironically, as we know there was NOTHING revolutinary about the coaching set up we tried anyway - its been done sucessfully at Ajax and various other clubs - and there was logic in a seemless link between youth and the first team - THAT is the premise we were told about and who cannot see logic in that? Our problem was that due to WHATEVER circumstances and I will happily admit Lowe would have driven this TOO far being convinced the youth could do it (mistakenly), we had no link betwen youth and 1st team because they were all playing in it!

 

There is a strong argument for questioning the decision by the club and Lowe as to why we could afford transfers in such as Schneiderlien, but no afford to keep saga - But without knowing contractual FACTS and DETAILS its pure speculation to try and do the sums to work out which is cheaper.... And again I am sure given that Lowe believed in the approach albeit it necessary he went for it 100% rather than perhaps trying desperately to keep the experience necessary - but again I dont have any factual eveidence on the nature of teh contracts or discussions with the bank.

 

In the audited accounts, it was stated that the overdraft had been reduced from 6mil to 4.5 - now this demonstrated impact of cost cutting may now have been offset by the reduced gate, but its POSSIBLE (Speculation) that the banks have granted us a bit of grace in an attempt to stay up, given the increased CCC TV revenue up to about 3 mil next season..?? So I suspect that yes ideally we would still; have loaned out these players or sold them in Jan, but as thats no longer and option, Wotte has them as an option and thus we are reaping the rewards - I would also hazzard a guess that IF finances had not been restrictive, we may well have seen JP and Wotte here sttill, but working with al the curent squad from day one, not just now...