How did we get here

[N/West Saint]

Since Rupert first took over we have been in freefall.

Can anyone think of any **** ups that Lowe has done to get us in this position?

 

To start you off

 

Bringing in Bagpuss

[John B]

Since Rupert first took over we have been in freefall.

Can anyone think of any **** ups that Lowe has done to get us in this position?

 

To start you off

 

Bringing in Bagpuss

 

In the years before Lowe arrived I assummed every season we would be relegated but after his arrival I did not.

 

However our present problems have been caused completely by Wilde Hone and Crouch together with the masses who wanted Lowe out.

 

I doubt if Lowe had been not been chucked out whether we would be in this position today.

 

Lowe might not be well liked or in some cases hated but who could do a better job?

 

It would of course be better if Lowe was not here because he divides the fan base .

[SaintDonkey]

I love the way some 'fans' forget an FA cup final, a top ten finish inn the Premiership and a shiny new stadium all came under Lowe's reign. And the little matter that before he came we had been hanging on to our Premiership status by the skin of Matt LeTissier's teeth for years.

 

The relegation came under Lowe but had been coming for years before he came on teh scene, the financial nightmare we're in now came from those who followed him.

[John B]

I love the way some 'fans' forget an FA cup final, a top ten finish inn the Premiership and a shiny new stadium all came under Lowe's reign. And the little matter that before he came we had been hanging on to our Premiership status by the skin of Matt LeTissier's teeth for years.

 

The relegation came under Lowe but had been coming for years before he came on teh scene, the financial nightmare we're in now came from those who followed him.

 

I think I said something similar

[CB Fry]

We haven't been in "freefall" since 1997.

 

Have a look at the four relegation battles in five years before the evillest man in the world took over. Have a look at the Branfoot era. Even the arse end of the Nicholl era was pretty pants, and shock horror, guess what, we flogged all our best players for to bigger clubs sometimes for peanuts (Horne, Ruddock, Flowers, Kenna, Shearer, Wallace, Townsend, Magilton, Richard Hall). And we wasted money on rubbish replacements (come in Alan Mcloughlin)

 

Establishing ourselves in the solid middle of the Prem, getting to a cup final and Europe and moving to a good ground to serve us for the next fifty plus years is not "freefall since 1997".

 

We got relegated. Every other club our size in the last decade or so has spent time at this level. Get over it you infant.

[saintkiptanui]

I love the way some 'fans' forget an FA cup final, a top ten finish inn the Premiership and a shiny new stadium all came under Lowe's reign. And the little matter that before he came we had been hanging on to our Premiership status by the skin of Matt LeTissier's teeth for years.

 

The relegation came under Lowe but had been coming for years before he came on teh scene, the financial nightmare we're in now came from those who followed him.

yee yes yes yes yes we should never have been relegated, we were 10th favourites for the premiership, twas a season of f*ck ups, mostly caused by woopes but this has been done 4 million times before.

[Whitey Grandad]

Do we have to go through all this again? We've had too many managers, it's as simple as that.

[John B]

yee yes yes yes yes we should never have been relegated, we were 10th favourites for the premiership, twas a season of f*ck ups, mostly caused by woopes but this has been done 4 million times before.

 

I take issue with that comment.

 

Firstly injuries played a huge part in our downfall at the begginning of the season at one time we had Beattie Crouch Phillips Ormerod Svennson and others injured.

 

That started us on our downfall followed by the inept decisions of Redknapp.

[saintkiptanui]

I take issue with that comment.

 

Firstly injuries played a huge part in our downfall at the begginning of the season at one time we had Beattie Crouch Phillips Ormerod Svennson and others injured.

 

That started us on our downfall followed by the inept decisions of Redknapp.

Nothing to do with appointing wigley?? and sacking sturrock after 2 games??

[TheSaint75]

Tooooo many poor managers and not learning from his own mistakes, the lack of investment in quality players to push us on, other than that great stuff.

[John B]

Do we have to go through all this again? We've had too many managers, it's as simple as that.

 

We may have had three managers but we also had injuries and pretty appalling performances by managers and players.

 

 

In effect we really had two managers as Sturrock was only involved for two games.

[once_bitterne]

We haven't been in "freefall" since 1997.

 

Have a look at the four relegation battles in five years before the evillest man in the world took over. Have a look at the Branfoot era. Even the arse end of the Nicholl era was pretty pants, and shock horror, guess what, we flogged all our best players for to bigger clubs sometimes for peanuts (Horne, Ruddock, Flowers, Kenna, Shearer, Wallace, Townsend, Magilton, Richard Hall). And we wasted money on rubbish replacements (come in Alan Mcloughlin)

 

Establishing ourselves in the solid middle of the Prem, getting to a cup final and Europe and moving to a good ground to serve us for the next fifty plus years is not "freefall since 1997".

 

We got relegated. Every other club our size in the last decade or so has spent time at this level. Get over it you infant.

 

Other than the big 4, only Spurs and Newcastle are ever present teams since the Prem began.....

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Since Rupert first took over we have been in freefall.

 

What a nonsense opening statement to make, even those who have a 'hatred' for Lowe would struggle with that one but hey ho hope you get satisfaction from creating yet another thread to get fans at each other.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

we were 10th favourites for the premiership.

 

Were we really ? not having a pop but by who

[saintkiptanui]

Other than the big 4, only Spurs and Newcastle are ever present teams since the Prem began.....

errr everton, dumb arse.

[saintkiptanui]

Were we really ? not having a pop but by who

By all bookies, we were a solid mid-table team.

[Matthew Le God]

Other than the big 4, only Spurs and Newcastle are ever present teams since the Prem began.....

 

Newcastle weren't in the Premiership when it started and Everton and Aston Villa have been in the Premiership every season.

[VectisSaint]

Other than the big 4, only Spurs and Newcastle are ever present teams since the Prem began.....

Aston Villa and Everton are ever present in the Prem as well as Spurs. Newcastle are not, they missed the first season.

[Matthew Le God]

Aston Villa and Everton are ever present in the Prem as well as Spurs. Newcastle are not, they missed the first season.

 

Beat you!

[saintkiptanui]

This will help won't it, looking back.

 

Not to mention, looking back and changing all the fact.

 

So yes, about 1995 rupert turns up, we're relegation fighters at the dell relying solely on one man to keep us up and we have little to know money. when would we have gone down if rupert hadn't come along? what state would we be in now? what's that? oh right, you have absolutely no idea.

 

but yes, it was all downhill from there wasn't it. no good moments whatsoever.

 

The only things I really held against lowe were allowing wigley, rofe and dodd to force out sturrock, appointing wigley, and choosing burley just because he'd done ok in a handful of games for hearts. that last one was the worst for me. i'd never rated or liked burley, and didn't enjoy being proved right one bit. good points - stadium, youth academy, strachan, hoddle, JP, cup run, mid table finishes in prem, financially running the club very well, getting very good prices for players that wanted to leave.

In 1996 I cuddled super saint, this was the highlight.

[Fowllyd]

In 1996 I cuddled super saint, this was the highlight.

 

But was that before or after Lowe came along?

[Whitey Grandad]

We may have had three managers but we also had injuries and pretty appalling performances by managers and players.

 

 

In effect we really had two managers as Sturrock was only involved for two games.

 

Sorry, I meant that we have had too many managerial changes since Rupert took over. What is it now? 14 in as many years?

[saintkiptanui]

But was that before or after Lowe came along?

After.

[Fowllyd]

After.

 

Thanks. It seemed important to establish that.

[SaintDonkey]

Sorry, I meant that we have had too many managerial changes since Rupert took over. What is it now? 14 in as many years?

 

Shall we look at the managers for the 5 years before he took over? That's 5 years and including caretakers 5 managers I believe (I'm not sure exactly when Lowe joined). Lowe continued the trend but he hardly originated it.

 

Graeme Souness 03-07-1996 01-06-1997

Dave Merrington 14-07-1995 14-06-1996

Lawrie McMenemy 02-07-1995 14-07-1995

Alan Ball 20-01-1994 02-07-1995

Ian Branfoot 11-06-1991 10-01-1994

Chris Nicholl 12-07-1985 22-05-1991

[alpine_saint]

Shall we look at the managers for the 5 years before he took over? That's 5 years and including caretakers 5 managers I believe (I'm not sure exactly when Lowe joined). Lowe continued the trend but he hardly originated it.

 

Graeme Souness 03-07-1996 01-06-1997

Dave Merrington 14-07-1995 14-06-1996

Lawrie McMenemy 02-07-1995 14-07-1995

Alan Ball 20-01-1994 02-07-1995

Ian Branfoot 11-06-1991 10-01-1994

Chris Nicholl 12-07-1985 22-05-1991

 

You can blame his partner in crime, Guy Askham, for starting this mess.

[St Marco]

I love the way some 'fans' forget an FA cup final, a top ten finish inn the Premiership and a shiny new stadium all came under Lowe's reign.

 

The stadium would of come no matter who was in charge and we did get to those places with Lowe here. However an FA cup final does not make up or make the failures any easier to accept. Nor do they mean that it is acceptable to think it is ok we got relegated because we had a good season a year before! It is easy for everyone to blame it all on Lowe but truth is he isn't to blame for everything as he did do some good. But the problem is he set up a club that was reliant of the Premiership pay packet with the attendences that come with that. He concentrated on expanding that empire in various places such as radio,food,sports science centre etc.. etc.. when really he should of been concentrating on the team. The club lost a few good players and a decent manager and from then he just made error after error. He was the one alone who made those decisions and is why he must accept some of the blame for it. Of course he would never do that. The ironic thing is i can see a bit of history repeating already. The comments on the OS talking up promotion, players being sold, fans getting ****ed off, team doing bad results wise and so on. But we can spend forever looking back, better to spend the time looking forward.

[ulstersaint]

Surely we have had more than enough autopsies! The reality is that we are where we are - admittedly in dire straits - and the best course is to look forward and try to find positives to focus on.

[Saint Billy]

Ok, Lowe for sure does not deserve all the blame, but lets face it, he is pretty damn unpopular now and not just with the fans. Surely, that cannot be constructive for the club can it?

[buctootim]

Ok, Lowe for sure does not deserve all the blame, but lets face it, he is pretty damn unpopular now and not just with the fans. Surely, that cannot be constructive for the club can it?

 

No its not constructive. It would be helpful if some accepted the reality forced on the club rather than trying to pin it all on one man and thinking that if he went away everything would be rosy.

Edited 19 August, 2008 by buctootim

[buctootim]

Surely we have had more than enough autopsies! The reality is that we are where we are - admittedly in dire straits - and the best course is to look forward and try to find positives to focus on.

 

Amen to that.

[Gorgiesaint]

The stadium would of come no matter who was in charge and we did get to those places with Lowe here. However an FA cup final does not make up or make the failures any easier to accept. Nor do they mean that it is acceptable to think it is ok we got relegated because we had a good season a year before! It is easy for everyone to blame it all on Lowe but truth is he isn't to blame for everything as he did do some good. But the problem is he set up a club that was reliant of the Premiership pay packet with the attendences that come with that. He concentrated on expanding that empire in various places such as radio,food,sports science centre etc.. etc.. when really he should of been concentrating on the team. The club lost a few good players and a decent manager and from then he just made error after error. He was the one alone who made those decisions and is why he must accept some of the blame for it. Of course he would never do that. The ironic thing is i can see a bit of history repeating already. The comments on the OS talking up promotion, players being sold, fans getting ****ed off, team doing bad results wise and so on. But we can spend forever looking back, better to spend the time looking forward.

 

The club had been looking for a new stadium for at least 25 years before we finally moved - Southampton longest running soap opera

 

Lowe had a club in the premiership - imagine the uproar if we'd only paid championship wages whilst still in the premiership. Don't think that we would have lasted long. After we got relegated, then we should have cut back. That certainly was the major reason behind our current financial problems, but again who was to blame for that - Wilde & Crouch in the main IMO.

 

I do agree with your comments about diversification, although it did make me chuckle when other income streams were debated on TSF about 2-3 months ago given our previous attempts!

[Thedelldays]

we got where we are because of two years of stupidness in the prem and two years of stupidness in the CCC...and lets be honest..90% of fans were pretty much behind all of the decisions..

 

who admits to cheering on arry and jim etc..i know i did and it makes me sick to think about it...who thinks the sturrock was a good manager LMAO...who actually thought that burley being allowed to waste so much money was a good idea in (and I quote) the fun, fair and exciting CCC...who else went 'Wilde' for saints??

 

we are all to blame and the sooner some of you remember this the better....

 

to say we have been going down hill since 1997 is one of the funniest things I have ever read...it is right up there with "we will walk this league"..

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

I am sure some think we are/were some sort of footballing mega giant who were far bigger than the CCC and on par with the arsenals and man u's of this world with the way some of you are acting..

 

we went down for the first time in almost 30 years...some far bigger clubs have gone down further and will do in the future..

 

reality check time me thinks..

[Professor]

Since Rupert first took over we have been in freefall.

Can anyone think of any **** ups that Lowe has done to get us in this position?

To start you off - Bringing in Bagpuss

Been reading too many posts by the anti-Lowe obsessive's maybe? By Bagpuss, I take it you mean Redknapp? True HR lost interest in Saints, but surely no intelligent football fan can claim that he is not a respected Premiership manager, so how on earth could his appointment be a 'Lowe error'? As Lowe was then ousted by the Wilde coup, just over a year later, the spending of the club's money, that has brought it down to the brink of bankruptcy, took place while Lowe was not on the board. The lowest point reached was the near miss with relegation last year, also while Lowe was not on the board.

Others have already pointed out that a top 10 Premiership finish and a cup final, as well as the SMS is not a club in 'freefall' so the whole premise of this thread is just another pointless anti-Lowe gripe, devoid of truth or facts.

[ooohTerryHurlock]

I take issue with that comment.

 

Firstly injuries played a huge part in our downfall at the begginning of the season at one time we had Beattie Crouch Phillips Ormerod Svennson and others injured.

 

That started us on our downfall followed by the inept decisions of Redknapp.

 

The major mistake was to sack sturrock after two games - one of which the team one - weeks and months of preperation out the window. That was the decision of one man and one man only - I don't recall a ground swell of anger towards sturrock - it was the chairmans decision and everything that followed was down to him. You can't blame Harry either - came into late and could n't undo the mess created by lowe and wigley - FACT. Take as much issues as you want but get your blinkers off

[buctootim]

You can't blame Harry either - came into late and could n't undo the mess created by lowe and wigley - FACT.

 

Yep. Everyone knows the season is over by Christmas.

[BadgerBadger]

Since Rupert first took over we have been in freefall.

Can anyone think of any **** ups that Lowe has done to get us in this position?

 

To start you off

 

Bringing in Bagpuss

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Southampton_F.C.

[Legod Second Coming]

The major mistake was to sack sturrock after two games - one of which the team one - weeks and months of preperation out the window. That was the decision of one man and one man only - I don't recall a ground swell of anger towards sturrock - it was the chairmans decision and everything that followed was down to him. You can't blame Harry either - came into late and could n't undo the mess created by lowe and wigley - FACT. Take as much issues as you want but get your blinkers off

 

 

Or to appoint him.

 

But to appoint him and not back him against the players.

 

That's criminal.

 

How would Rupert have reacted in business if an underling came to complain about the company director??

 

Would he have fired the director??

 

So what the hell was he thinking?

 

Where was his bloody up-bringing??

 

The one decision you would have staked your life on a toff calling correctly...

[Mole]

Others have already pointed out that a top 10 Premiership finish and a cup final, as well as the SMS is not a club in 'freefall' so the whole premise of this thread is just another pointless anti-Lowe gripe, devoid of truth or facts.

 

Like we never had top ten finnishes before Lowe arrived. Your argument is about as pathetic as the argument that Lowe invented youth development and bringing the likes of Le tissier, Shearer, ruddock, the Wallace brothers etc up through the ranks was just a dream.

 

As for the cup final - we got **** easy draws and then lost in the final. We then played 1 team in europe and got knocked out. Big deal.

[Thedelldays]

Like we never had top ten finnishes before Lowe arrived. Your argument is about as pathetic as the argument that Lowe invented youth development and bringing the likes of Le tissier, Shearer, ruddock, the Wallace brothers etc up through the ranks was just a dream.

 

As for the cup final - we got **** easy draws and then lost in the final. We then played 1 team in europe and got knocked out. Big deal.

comparing football in the 80s to the prem is like comparing gary glitter to a nun

[CB Fry]

Like we never had top ten finnishes before Lowe arrived. Your argument is about as pathetic as the argument that Lowe invented youth development and bringing the likes of Le tissier, Shearer, ruddock, the Wallace brothers etc up through the ranks was just a dream.

 

As for the cup final - we got **** easy draws and then lost in the final. We then played 1 team in europe and got knocked out. Big deal.

 

 

So what exactly is your point? So when we finished 12th, 10th, 11th, 11th and 8th in the late nineties and early 2000s what were you saying at the time? That we were rubbish? That it was all a waste of time? Were we underperforming then?

 

If you don't care about getting to cup finals then why the **** do you follow a football team?

 

Cardiff was one of the best days out of my sporting life - the atmosphere from when I arrived in the city at 10am until I left that night was fantastic. A great great day?

 

Where were you? Sat in a dark room with the TV and radio off because you were so disgusted by how easily we got to the final?

 

Did you complain to UEFA that we should never have been allowed to compete in the following seasons UEFA cup? Did our participation disgust you so much at the time?

 

Stop being so bitter you silly little man.

[saintcrris]

we got where we are because of two years of stupidness in the prem and two years of stupidness in the CCC...and lets be honest..90% of fans were pretty much behind all of the decisions..

 

who admits to cheering on arry and jim etc..i know i did and it makes me sick to think about it...who thinks the sturrock was a good manager LMAO...who actually thought that burley being allowed to waste so much money was a good idea in (and I quote) the fun, fair and exciting CCC...who else went 'Wilde' for saints??

 

we are all to blame and the sooner some of you remember this the better....

 

to say we have been going down hill since 1997 is one of the funniest things I have ever read...it is right up there with "we will walk this league"..

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

I am sure some think we are/were some sort of footballing mega giant who were far bigger than the CCC and on par with the arsenals and man u's of this world with the way some of you are acting..

 

we went down for the first time in almost 30 years...some far bigger clubs have gone down further and will do in the future..

 

reality check time me thinks..

 

I fail to see how some fans singing the managers name are to blame for the downfull of this club. Or the Northam as some friggin idiots would have us believe.

 

Sturrock given time might of turned out to be a good manager who knows?

[Thedelldays]

I fail to see how some fans singing the managers name are to blame for the downfull of this club. Or the Northam as some friggin idiots would have us believe.

 

Sturrock given time might of turned out to be a good manager who knows?

my point is...so many are going mental at the club for the state we are in but at the time...those "so many" were think it was all a great idea..

 

you see, we are all to blame...me, you, rupert, wilde, crouch, arry, burley, wigley, woggy, SCW, every one of us..

 

maybe look within and see what you can do to help make it better instead of damanding to know what sandwich the directors had this morning or whether rupert took a few days off..

 

never in my life have i seen a group of people think a football club is so much bigger than it actually is...I very much doubt we would see as much griping should even arsenal get relegated this summer

[Legod Second Coming]

my point is...so many are going mental at the club for the state we are in but at the time...those "so many" were think it was all a great idea..

 

you see, we are all to blame...me, you, rupert, wilde, crouch, arry, burley, wigley, woggy, SCW, every one of us..

 

maybe look within and see what you can do to help make it better instead of damanding to know what sandwich the directors had this morning or whether rupert took a few days off..

 

never in my life have i seen a group of people think a football club is so much bigger than it actually is...I very much doubt we would see as much griping should even arsenal get relegated this summer

 

 

DD what is wrong with you man? Have you been to Amsterdam???

[Professor]

Like we never had top ten finnishes before Lowe arrived. Your argument is about as pathetic as the argument that Lowe invented youth development and bringing the likes of Le tissier, Shearer, ruddock, the Wallace brothers etc up through the ranks was just a dream.

 

As for the cup final - we got **** easy draws and then lost in the final. We then played 1 team in europe and got knocked out. Big deal.

 

We actually had a top two finish before Lowe arrived, but we also got relegated. We also had easy draws on the way to the FA Cup final in 1976 as well, playing only a third division side in the semi and the win was against a side that had only gone up from Div 2 that season but it was still seen as a great achievement. Problem is Stanley, if you want to blame Lowe for a bad season, you have to credit him with a good one, when in truth, the chairman's impact on either is only one of many factors that affect the outcome of a season. I'm sorry if that's too complicated, when just blaming the chairman is so much easier.

[saintcrris]

my point is...so many are going mental at the club for the state we are in but at the time...those "so many" were think it was all a great idea..

 

you see, we are all to blame...me, you, rupert, wilde, crouch, arry, burley, wigley, woggy, SCW, every one of us..

 

maybe look within and see what you can do to help make it better instead of damanding to know what sandwich the directors had this morning or whether rupert took a few days off..

 

never in my life have i seen a group of people think a football club is so much bigger than it actually is...I very much doubt we would see as much griping should even arsenal get relegated this summer

 

I go to matches thats it, I may have a moan on here (just like you did all last season)

 

I care not one iota what Lowe or anyone else eats. You do not get out much if you really do think that SFC fans are any different then any other fans on the whole.

 

You class a few posters on the whole fan base thats just poppy****.

 

Fans can have their say thats what this place is for, but don't get too carried away because 10 or so posters on here don't happen to like the chairman on a single thread.

[Saint Billy]

DD what is wrong with you man? Have you been to Amsterdam???

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

How about an apple for the teacher delldays.

[dubai_phil]

How did we get here.................

 

Well first there was like this garden with this bloke and a chick with nothing on and then this snake arrives and like says yo have a bite of this apple

 

Up until then we were pretty well dead set to be a regular top four club, but after that it all sort of started going downhill.

 

Enough of this blame rubbish it was the bl**dy council who stopped us building the new ground after the '76 cup final down at Marlands or West Quay or wherever.

 

We'd have been up and running at the time we had Keegan et al and none of this crud of reverse takeovers would have even got started.

 

Or how about blaming Liverpool fans for Heysel which got English teams banned from Europe and stopped us playing and earning huge bucks after being runners up which would have allowed us to "kick on"

 

Blame games don't work, living in the past makes you miss the day you are in and you end up missing the whole of life

 

reality sucks, but it is all there is.

 

And no I ain't been to Amsterdam

 

in ages

[Fowllyd]

How did we get here.................

 

Well first there was like this garden with this bloke and a chick with nothing on and then this snake arrives and like says yo have a bite of this apple

 

Up until then we were pretty well dead set to be a regular top four club, but after that it all sort of started going downhill.

 

Enough of this blame rubbish it was the bl**dy council who stopped us building the new ground after the '76 cup final down at Marlands or West Quay or wherever.

 

We'd have been up and running at the time we had Keegan et al and none of this crud of reverse takeovers would have even got started.

 

Or how about blaming Liverpool fans for Heysel which got English teams banned from Europe and stopped us playing and earning huge bucks after being runners up which would have allowed us to "kick on"

Blame games don't work, living in the past makes you miss the day you are in and you end up missing the whole of life

 

reality sucks, but it is all there is.

 

And no I ain't been to Amsterdam

 

in ages

 

Hate to tell you this Phil, but we finished second in 1984 and the Heysel disaster happened in 1985. So we were in the UEFA Cup in 1984-5 - mind you, there were no megabucks in it back then.

 

I agree completely about the blame games.

[dubai_phil]

Hate to tell you this Phil, but we finished second in 1984 and the Heysel disaster happened in 1985. So we were in the UEFA Cup in 1984-5 - mind you, there were no megabucks in it back then.

 

I agree completely about the blame games.

 

So which year was it? I'm sure we missed out during that time, can't be Alzheimers yet:-)