Lowe's biggest mistake?

[OldNick]

Trouble is though Nick, we ALL see what mistakes are being made, even now.

 

If say, Rupey Baby had removed Poortvliet and replaced him with a manager of some experience in THIS league, he would have at least received some support for having the balls to make the change.

 

By promoting Wotte he has taken his eyes off the ball...AGAIN. He obviously can't have that many advisers, as someone, somewhere has to tell him he is acting like a right ****.

 

HE IS NEVER GOING TO LEARN...'THERE IS NONE SO BLIND...AS THOSE WHO WON'T SEE'

Iam with you and very critical of RL due to the fact.I keep getting positives from people(at the club who are close to what is happening) about Wotte since he has taken over and whilst my positves have yet to be rewarded i can sense that there are some good things happening behind the scenes.I know the results havent shown that yet.

[Mole]

Defeatism on here is all around, its like France 1940.

 

If we're going to use 1940's France in the context of SFC i guess this makes you Marshal Philippe Pétain.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Agreed on Redknapp.In my own opinion he is a good manager but if you cramp his style, as Rupert probably did, then you are going to get nothing out of him.

If you want to get the best out of Harry you have to trust him, turn a blind eye to his methods and pay the bill.Otherwise whatever you pay him is likely to be pure waste.There are people like him in most walks of life,if you want results don't look too closely at how they're achieved.

 

Absolutely spot on with this - Redknapp will get results but has to be allowed to do it his way (for good and bad) - he was hardly likely to have been able to do this while sharing an office with SCW.

[Papa Shango]

M3h. I wouldn't worry, if he had appointed him and then found in his 2nd full season that we were down fighting relegation then our wonderful fans would have been calling for his head and forced him out the club anyway.

 

Alright Mr Superfan, why do you even bother going to games if you hate our fans so much? Nearly every post you make on here you slag off our supporters, blaming them for all that is wrong at the club.

[ottery st mary]

Iam with you and very critical of RL due to the fact.I keep getting positives from people(at the club who are close to what is happening) about Wotte since he has taken over and whilst my positves have yet to be rewarded i can sense that there are some good things happening behind the scenes.I know the results havent shown that yet.

 

nick, you have stuck with Rupert through thick and thin. You stuck with JP through to almost the death and now you stick like glue with Wottey.

 

Soon to be Gorrey for the last few games before the final death throes.

 

What has Rupert done for you in the past...Must have been a big breath before your eyes popped at the Public school behind the cycle shed..Most of us smoked or had a grope with a bird..Suppose you always wanted to be different..bit like your buddie, Rupert..God Bless you and your stickability.

By the way, Sidmouth is still looking good. Bring Rupert with you.

[Mole]

Alright Mr Superfan, why do you even bother going to games if you hate our fans so much? Nearly every post you make on here you slag off our supporters, blaming them for all that is wrong at the club.

 

Maybe he's Rupert.

[Arizona]

Lowe's biggest mistakes, in order:

 

1. Sacking Pearson. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have had the chance to make mistakes 2 and 3 and we'd probably be midtable.

 

2. Appointing Wotte. Poortvliet was a poor decision, but at least we had the chance to appoint someone better when it didn't work out. With Wotte we don't. He was our final throw of the dice and I have zero confidence it will work.

 

3. Appointing Poortvliet. Crazy experiment. Why the f**k would he get us playing exciting passing football just because he's f**king dutch. Maybe we should get a Thai manager and an entirely female squad, then we can teach them to fire the ball's from their... you get the idea.

 

4. Signing Morgan Schneiderlin. Even aside from his Pahars-esq injury problems that the medical didn't pick up on, spending £1.2m on some French teenager, then claiming we can't afford Rasiak, John, Saga or Pearson's wages really p*sses me off.

[um pahars]

.I keep getting positives from people(at the club who are close to what is happening) about Wotte since he has taken over and whilst my positves have yet to be rewarded i can sense that there are some good things happening behind the scenes.

 

FFS the league don't award points for what you sense or for what you're little inside track is telling you.

 

Pray tell, what was your little inside track telling you through the first 28 games of the season when we were going to fck?

[jonah]

Would you "scapegoat" the bloke brought into manage the sweet-counter at Woollies for their ultimate demise? Nah, neither would I... that would be missing the issue totally.

 

It would, I agree, which is why when we lose a goal in the 4th minute of injury time I don't feel the need to sack the chairman of the PLC. Likewise, if I got a bad strawberry bonbon from Woolies pick'n'mix I wouldn't stomp about in the AGM demanding the chairman resigned and asking why he hadn't apologised for my bad bonbon.

 

if you're gong to select someone like Redknapp - and surely anyone in football knows how he operates?? - then you need to give him adequate backing to succeed. Otherwise, go appoint someone else.

 

I agree - but wasn't letting him sell Beattie, bring in Crouch, and bring in 5 expensive loan players letting him do what he does best? There were very few people who thought he wasn't supported in that window at the time.

 

Still, you and Rupes will be happy as it's been done "at little cost" (ignoring relegation, a 3/4 empty stadium next year, and possible administration, natch!).

 

The cost constraints, the team fighting for survival with 20 minutes of the season remaining, and the prospect of administration were all due to the Wilde/Crouch time don't you agree? I just don't get what you or others expected to be different this time around? We only just survived last season by the skin of our teeth due to other team's failure - with worse finances and further cuts, what did you expect?

 

you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who knows football, and I mean ANYONE, who has a good word to say about your beloved Rupert Lowe.

 

Yes, he is my beloved. Most people outside of Southampton only hear the gossip and lies about Rupert Lowe - "he lined his pockets", "he was gifted his shares", "he's never put a penny into the club", whilst embelished with lies about Wilde and Crouch like "theypaid players wages". Of course people end up without a good word to say - but that's not based on the truth is it?

 

I hope I am objective enough to see the faults of all of those who have failed SFC - and I include Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc. in that number, along with a host of less than average managers and players. Rupert's track record for sustained mismanagement, and moreover making the same mistakes time and time again, stands head and shoulders above anyone elses though - hence why you (and he) feel he's "victimised". Again... one word - ACCOUNTABILITY. Comes with the territory I'm afraid.

 

No problem with accountability, the problem is it's all selective around here - people are trying to blame him for the reverse-takeover whilst absolving McMenemy and Co. He's criticised for dividends whilst Corbett & Co pocketed theirs without question. He's singled out for all appointments despite them being board decisions (usually!) or even Wilde's responsibility. And this thread is a classic - started by claiming appointing Gray was his biggest mistake.

 

Aaahhhh... the old "lunatic fringe" - wondered how long it'd be!!

 

Lighten up, it was just a joke!

 

I can't imagine how you all watch the football, you must sit there with tight balls of hatred welling up inside your stomach at every match just thinking about Rupert. If half the energy had gone into checking out Wilde & Co or supporting the team during games, we wouldn't be in the positions we're in now (in terms of cash or league position).

[Andy_Porter]

4. Signing Morgan Schneiderlin. Even aside from his Pahars-esq injury problems that the medical didn't pick up on, spending £1.2m on some French teenager, then claiming we can't afford Rasiak, John, Saga or Pearson's wages really p*sses me off.

 

Really strange transfer that, just didn't/doesn't make any sense at all.

[Fowllyd]

Iam with you and very critical of RL due to the fact.I keep getting positives from people(at the club who are close to what is happening) about Wotte since he has taken over and whilst my positves have yet to be rewarded i can sense that there are some good things happening behind the scenes.I know the results havent shown that yet.

 

But didn't we hear the same, or similar, sounds last season when Dodd and Gorman were first in charge? Back then articles on the OS (and posters on TSF to some extent) were proclaiming better performances, the team playing more expansively and positively - but we still had naff all to show for it. Seems an awful lot like the same song now.

 

Time will tell, of course, but right now I'm far from hopeful (and given that I am by nature an optimist then I'm not surprised that others take a considerably dimmer view).

 

Going back to the original post, I'd agree with those who say that Lowe's biggest mistake is his failure to learn from his past errors. Except that I'd say the word 'refusal' is more appropriate than 'failure' here.

[Window Cleaner]

Really strange transfer that, just didn't/doesn't make any sense at all.

 

I think I have to re-iterate again here that it is highly unlikely that we've paid anywhere near 1 million £ to RCS as of this time.

Morgan's agent said at the time of the transfer,again I don't know why, he just did ,that Arsenal are in some way involved in the affair. How and why I don't know. He said it that's all.

Perhaps they loaned us the money,or that they have first refusal, I just don't know.

[Andy_Porter]

I think we had one good game under Dodd and Gorman, lost 1-0 at home to Norwich and then it all went to pot after that.

[Andy_Porter]

I think I have to re-iterate again here that it is highly unlikely that we've paid anywhere near 1 million £ to RCS as of this time.

Morgan's agent said at the time of the transfer,again I don't know why, he just did ,that Arsenal are in some way involved in the affair. How and why I don't know. He said it that's all.

Perhaps they loaned us the money,or that they have first refusal, I just don't know.

 

Definatly something fishy about the deal.

[SW11_Saint]

It would, I agree, which is why when we lose a goal in the 4th minute of injury time I don't feel the need to sack the chairman of the PLC. Likewise, if I got a bad strawberry bonbon from Woolies pick'n'mix I wouldn't stomp about in the AGM demanding the chairman resigned and asking why he hadn't apologised for my bad bonbon.

Missing the point... agaaaaiinn.... the point is the accountability of those in charge over a sustantial period of time. Lowe has overseen the majority of our plummet through the leagues, and free-fall into financial armageddon - much of which has arisen by his poor decision making and the bizarre experiments he insists on subjecting the club to. So, YES, I DO think the chair of the Plc. needs to be accountable for the performance of the company/club. Think of it as half a decade of selling sweets made out of ****. Worth a complaint or two I'd say...

 

I agree - but wasn't letting him sell Beattie, bring in Crouch, and bring in 5 expensive loan players letting him do what he does best?.

NO! if HR had been able to "do what he'd do best" he'd have been signing players left right and centre - whether it would have worked it or not is another matter, but please don't kid yourself (or us) that Lowe "backed him with an open cheque-book".

 

(PS Crouch was already here, just in the reserves under Wigley, so Lowe didn't "let him" do anything on that front, he just picked a reserve player and set him on the road to becoming an England squad regular).

 

There were very few people who thought he wasn't supported in that window at the time.

Oh purleeese...!!! there's that selective memory again...

 

The cost constraints, the team fighting for survival with 20 minutes of the season remaining, and the prospect of administration were all due to the Wilde/Crouch time don't you agree? I just don't get what you or others expected to be different this time around? We only just survived last season by the skin of our teeth due to other team's failure - with worse finances and further cuts, what did you expect?

Well, the proof of the pudding... "they" kept us up. Will Rupert's masterplan??

 

We survived due to a number of factors - luck had a part, no question - but so did hard work, committment, the club and fans pulling together, and having a ballsy young tracksuit manager experienced in the trials and tribulations of English league football. Most of these other factors are not, and will never be present while Lowe is at the helm. We could have built on last year, but oh no, we had to throw all of that out and go for another Rupert brainwave...

 

Yes, he is my beloved.

Erm, yes, we know that!

 

Most people outside of Southampton only hear the gossip and lies about Rupert Lowe - "he lined his pockets", "he was gifted his shares", "he's never put a penny into the club", whilst embelished with lies about Wilde and Crouch like "theypaid players wages". Of course people end up without a good word to say - but that's not based on the truth is it?

I think you overestimate just how interested the rest of the country are in what goes on in the SO postcode area. Most couldn't give a toss. They only know RL based on what the see and hear, from him directly, and indirectly, via the media and can make their own minds up. Most of this is due to him pushing himself into the public forum - when we were riding high, let's not forget how much self publicity went on (but now things are going wrong of course it's all Leon Crouch's fault!).

 

No problem with accountability, the problem is it's all selective around here - people are trying to blame him for the reverse-takeover whilst absolving McMenemy and Co. He's criticised for dividends whilst Corbett & Co pocketed theirs without question. He's singled out for all appointments despite them being board decisions (usually!) or even Wilde's responsibility. And this thread is a classic - started by claiming appointing Gray was his biggest mistake.

Not at all. Wilde and Crouch are accountable for their year in charge. They clearly mismanaged the financials somewhat, but kept us up. Everyone responsible for allowing Rupert and his Granny Gulag-ers through the door should hold their heads in shame. I've said for many months/years now - we need a clean broom; get rid of the lot of them, and let someone else have a go. Problem is the mismanagement has been so acute that we're a total basket case now, so that's highly unlikely to happen.

 

Lighten up, it was just a joke!

Of course! But never hurts to throw it out tere does it - in the same way "Commie" was bandied about during the McCarthy witchhunts. Never know... that there mud just might stick to one or two...

 

I can't imagine how you all watch the football, you must sit there with tight balls of hatred welling up inside your stomach at every match just thinking about Rupert. If half the energy had gone into checking out Wilde & Co or supporting the team during games, we wouldn't be in the positions we're in now (in terms of cash or league position).

Same way most Saints fans do these days - hope for the best, fear the worst, sing/scream your hearts out for 90 minuges... then invariable go home depressed and wonder how on earth we ever got into this position...

 

... which bring us full circle!

[krissyboy31]

Lowe's biggest mistake is his last one. He keeps trumping himself!

[Arizona]

I think I have to re-iterate again here that it is highly unlikely that we've paid anywhere near 1 million £ to RCS as of this time.

Morgan's agent said at the time of the transfer,again I don't know why, he just did ,that Arsenal are in some way involved in the affair. How and why I don't know. He said it that's all.

Perhaps they loaned us the money,or that they have first refusal, I just don't know.

 

Whereas we wouldn't have paid that much up front for the wages of anyone at this club. Assuming one of those players was on £10k a week, that's £0.5m a year.

 

Given the choice of keeping Rasiak or Saga for the final 2 years of their contract OR Morgan Schneiderlin, I know who I'd go for.

 

As for the Arsenal thing, surely bullsh*t. Just an agent trying to big up his player. I have my doubts as to whether he is even CCC material. He wouldn't get into any promotion chasing CCC teams, never in a million years into a Prem side. Arsenal? No fookin' way.

[um pahars]

Whereas we wouldn't have paid that much up front for the wages of anyone at this club. Assuming one of those players was on £10k a week, that's £0.5m a year.

 

Given the choice of keeping Rasiak or Saga for the final 2 years of their contract OR Morgan Schneiderlin, I know who I'd go for.

 

As for the Arsenal thing, surely bullsh*t. Just an agent trying to big up his player. I have my doubts as to whether he is even CCC material. He wouldn't get into any promotion chasing CCC teams, never in a million years into a Prem side. Arsenal? No fookin' way.

 

IMHO Schneiderlin was bought solely as a potential asset to groom and quickly sell on. If he goes for a couple of million then it will looked at as a good deal and if he doesn't, then questions will/should be asked.

 

IMHO, when money is tight and we have a mountain to climb, I would have thought the first priority would be to have the strongest possible team in the short term and to stay up.

 

Therefore, I'm with you 100%, and rather than indulge in the player speculation game, all our monies (and efforts) should have been channelled into giving ourselves the strongest possible chance of staying up.

 

Like you, I would have spent the money (even if was not the full £1.2m) on keeping one of our goalscorers at the Club.

 

When people say we had no choices this season, then the appointment of Poortvliet and the signing of Schneiderlin are too easy ripostes (although there are many others as well!!!).

[Dalek2003]

This view from David Clausentum from rivals.net sums it up for me:

 

In part we went down some years ago as fan power blocked the return of Glen Hoddle. A few weeks ago, i heard rumours Billy Davies could end up at SMS, and all the know it all's on the other boards knocked him and said if he comes they will not go etc etc blah blah blah. Look at Forest go. Will these know it all bigots accept any responsibility again for our demise, or is it all Lowe's fault?

 

and as somebody siad ealier it was the 'first domino to fall', ie the failure to re-appoint GH.

[Channon's Sideburns]

This view from David Clausentum from rivals.net sums it up for me:

 

In part we went down some years ago as fan power blocked the return of Glen Hoddle. A few weeks ago, i heard rumours Billy Davies could end up at SMS, and all the know it all's on the other boards knocked him and said if he comes they will not go etc etc blah blah blah. Look at Forest go. Will these know it all bigots accept any responsibility again for our demise, or is it all Lowe's fault?

 

and as somebody siad ealier it was the 'first domino to fall', ie the failure to re-appoint GH.

 

And just how many promotions has Lord Hoddle achieved without money to waste???

 

THAT'S why you'll never see Hoddle back...we have no money (allegedly).

[aintforever]

I think I have to re-iterate again here that it is highly unlikely that we've paid anywhere near 1 million £ to RCS as of this time.

Morgan's agent said at the time of the transfer,again I don't know why, he just did ,that Arsenal are in some way involved in the affair. How and why I don't know. He said it that's all.

Perhaps they loaned us the money,or that they have first refusal, I just don't know.

 

Most deals are not paid up front, it makes no difference when we pay the money we are still making a commitment of the amount which is reported as upto £1.2mill euros.

 

As for the Arsenal thing - that's a laugh for that shower of ****e.

[saintjinksie]

Well, there has been quite a few but as I watched the Everton v Villa highlights and saw David Moyes on the touchline I remember how he nearly joined us in the summer of 2001.

He had agreed to be our new manager, but Lowe did not want him to bring his back room staff and so the arrangement fell through and Lowe returned to the cheaper Stuart Gray option.

 

For the sake of a few quid this decision was one of Lowe's worst if not the worst - although the Wigley and JP choices are pushing to be included.

 

Selling wayne bridge after the cup final, was the beginning of the decline IMO.

[View From The Top]

What a surprise, Jonah and the other Lowe luvvie c o c ks rewriting history to protect their lord and master.

 

I'm hopeful that they tell someone not so sing anti-Lowe songs on Saturday and get a good kicking for it.

[sidthesquid]

Well, there has been quite a few but as I watched the Everton v Villa highlights and saw David Moyes on the touchline I remember how he nearly joined us in the summer of 2001.

He had agreed to be our new manager, but Lowe did not want him to bring his back room staff and so the arrangement fell through and Lowe returned to the cheaper Stuart Gray option.

 

For the sake of a few quid this decision was one of Lowe's worst if not the worst - although the Wigley and JP choices are pushing to be included.

 

May I just say you need to get out more. That is eight years, about ten managers, a cup final, a Europe, a relegation and a play-off ago

[docker-p]

Lowes current 'biggest mistake' is loaning out 3 strikers to save money, without doing the sums. Relegation, caused in part by not having a decent striker, will cost us far more than he has saved.

[Thedelldays]

appointing wigley has to be it for me...after gray he went and done this..

 

I was looking forward to who would be coming in..we were very well placed as a squad to do pretty well and was only 2-3 decent players away from "pushing on"...the rumours were rife that houllier was at SMS for an interview which I would have been very happy about..

 

then when wigley was appointed as HEAD COACH I refused to believe it was full time and was appointed like he was immediately after WGS left...

 

when it dawn that wigley had the job I hated SFC for embarassing themselves and me..

 

what a farking joke

[Thedelldays]

And just how many promotions has Lord Hoddle achieved without money to waste???

 

THAT'S why you'll never see Hoddle back...we have no money (allegedly).

at the one club he had no money - Swindon

Edited 16 February, 2009 by Thedelldays

[SW11_Saint]

This view from David Clausentum from rivals.net sums it up for me:

 

In part we went down some years ago as fan power blocked the return of Glen Hoddle. A few weeks ago, i heard rumours Billy Davies could end up at SMS, and all the know it all's on the other boards knocked him and said if he comes they will not go etc etc blah blah blah. Look at Forest go. Will these know it all bigots accept any responsibility again for our demise, or is it all Lowe's fault?

 

and as somebody siad ealier it was the 'first domino to fall', ie the failure to re-appoint GH.

Unbelieveable how naive some people can be. Putting aside the issue that I hardly heard a murmur about Davies coming here, let alone any fans being up in arms about it, do you really really think Lowe would "splash out" on Davies and admit his Dutch Masterplan is f*cked?

 

Oh, and to answer his question. No, it's not all Lowe's fault. But it mainly is.

[WestSaint]

To my mind the appointment of Wigley was his worst mistake both in the manner of the appointment and for not getting rid of him sooner when it was obvious it was not working.

 

Returning was a mistake which was compounded by getting rid of Pearson whom had fan support and appointing Portaloo and Wotte.

 

Their appointment made no sense. We were going to struggle as last season had proved and it was not certainly not time to experiment

[teamsaint]

easy one.

 

Wigley.

 

Fit of pique at the rejection of Hoddle.

 

beginning of the end.

 

stupid sod.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Mmm, I am torn between...

 

(a) Allowing Strachan to leave the club...or...

 

(b) Forming SLH PLC to govern the life of Southampton Football Club.

[Thedelldays]

(b) Forming SLH PLC to govern the life of Southampton Football Club.

 

 

this annoys me...as NO ONE had a problem or even mentioned anything about the PLC side of things circa 2003

[Fitzhugh Fella]

this annoys me...as NO ONE had a problem or even mentioned anything about the PLC side of things circa 2003

 

 

I think quite a few did - SISA, Chorley et al. No doubt some were preferring to deride them for so doing so.

Just because we got to a Cup Final (with a bit of luck and home draws only to then flunk it) does not absolve all the rest of the crap, we have had to suffer under the deranged Lowe.

 

Our European run wasn't exactly glorious or long-lived either, but Jonah still likes to hang his hat on it.

[Thedelldays]

I think quite a few did - SISA, Chorley et al. No doubt some were preferring to deride them for so doing so.

Just because we got to a Cup Final (with a bit of luck and home draws only to then flunk it) does not absolve all the rest of the crap, we have had to suffer under the deranged Lowe.

 

Our European run wasn't exactly glorious or long-lived either, but Jonah still likes to hang his hat on it.

 

did I say it was right to absolve the crap...but I cant remember many complaints about the PLC in 2003...

 

I will never forget around 1000 saints fans singing rupert lowes red and white army at the pre-season friendly at plymouth in the summer of 2004...

 

oh, name one side that gets to the cup final WITHOUT a hint of luck..?

A team like saints (and pompey) will need their fair share...I was not complaining or writing it off in 2003..not does that mean it was lowes great work either

 

I feel sad for you, being the clubs historian (or used to be) that you are happy to knock the fact we got to a cup final and europe for the first time in a generation...has anyone told you were are not barcelona and to do what we did was pretty darn brilliant..but what do I know

[Saint Fan CaM]

this annoys me...as NO ONE had a problem or even mentioned anything about the PLC side of things circa 2003

 

Don't be annoyed - while some fans were clearly opposed at the time, that's not the issue here. The key is what PLC status has STOPPED this club achieving since 2003 and in particular right now in our hour of need that really matters. Surely you can see this?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

As stated earlier. It may not be all Lowe's fault, but he is certainly the root cause in my opinion. I rue the day he became involved in this club and therefore must lay some of the blame with those who brought him on board.

[Kenilworthy]

[

(PS Crouch was already here, just in the reserves under Wigley, so Lowe didn't "let him" do anything on that front, he just picked a reserve player and set him on the road to becoming an England squad regular).

 

The idea that Crouch was somehow left languishing in the reserves by Wigley and then rescued by Arry is part of a mythology carefully fostered by Crouch and Arry.

 

Crouch was always part of Wigley's first team squad and used regularly as a sub until he was injured -it was our striker injury crisis that ended up with Blackstock and Best leading the attack at Everton. As soon as Crouch returned from injury he was back in the squad.

 

I agree there is a difference between getting a start and being on the bench, but the alternative would have been Crouch replacing Beattie. That wouldn't have gone done well at the time, given that he started his career at St Mary's being booed by his own fans. Arry or not, Crouch would have played a major part that season since Beattie was on his way.

[CB Fry]

Well, there has been quite a few but as I watched the Everton v Villa highlights and saw David Moyes on the touchline I remember how he nearly joined us in the summer of 2001.

He had agreed to be our new manager, but Lowe did not want him to bring his back room staff and so the arrangement fell through and Lowe returned to the cheaper Stuart Gray option.

 

For the sake of a few quid this decision was one of Lowe's worst if not the worst - although the Wigley and JP choices are pushing to be included.

 

 

But this is a nonsense - in the three seasons following Moyes non appointment we finished solid mid table twice, and eighth and a cup final in the middle season, and we had a foray into Europe.

 

If we had appointed Moyes then either

 

a) he would have done much worse and been sacked (three seasons of, say, Dave Jones standard relegation scraps would have seen him out).

 

b) he would have done the same or slightly better and would have left to go to Everton, or Villa or Celtic or Man City or Scotland. He would not have stayed with us like he has with Everton - Everton are the biggest club that can employ him, we wouldn't have been. And he's nearly walked from Everton because of lack of transfer cash....what on earth do you think he would have done under Lowe?!!!

 

So your premise that we would have done better under Moyes is garbage.

 

Within three years from the Moyes appointment the likelihood we would have ended up no better than where we were at the end of Sturrock's close season. You can't throw forward any further with any credibility.

 

Everything beyond that is just really lame guesswork.

[L1Minus10]

The biggest is the most recent - coming back thinking he could sort things out with the Dutch ego trip. Pure madness. All he's achieved is ensuring that no other club will ever think that the Dutch revolutionary set up is the way to go.

[corsacar saint]

Lowes biggest mistake was getting involved in the football industry, something he will never

know the first thing about.

[Greedyfly]

I think the whole Wigley thing was a massive mistake. Had we got a proven manager in at that time, I have no doubt we would have got more than 3 points more than we did meaning we would have stayed up while having so many young players coming through.

 

 

Yep, have to agree with you on that one. Wigley was by far and large Lowe's biggest **** up. Not only was it a repitition of the one he made with Gray, (hence it being a bigger **** up) but I never ever felt like Wigley was going to get it right. I'm not even sure he would have turned out to be a bad coach/manager at that point he just smacked of a 'Deer caught in headlights' and just never had the luck or, more importantly, the technical nouse to get the one win that may have made the future so much brighter for both himself and Southampton FC. Admirable for giving it a genuine try. A tossser for doing it badly (some awful team selections). And a clueless gimp for not giving it up sooner.

[Daren W]

But this is a nonsense - in the three seasons following Moyes non appointment we finished solid mid table twice, and eighth and a cup final in the middle season, and we had a foray into Europe.

 

If we had appointed Moyes then either

 

a) he would have done much worse and been sacked (three seasons of, say, Dave Jones standard relegation scraps would have seen him out).

 

b) he would have done the same or slightly better and would have left to go to Everton, or Villa or Celtic or Man City or Scotland. He would not have stayed with us like he has with Everton - Everton are the biggest club that can employ him, we wouldn't have been. And he's nearly walked from Everton because of lack of transfer cash....what on earth do you think he would have done under Lowe?!!!

 

So your premise that we would have done better under Moyes is garbage.

 

Within three years from the Moyes appointment the likelihood we would have ended up no better than where we were at the end of Sturrock's close season. You can't throw forward any further with any credibility.

 

Everything beyond that is just really lame guesswork.

 

As opposed to your options a and b, neither of which offers the option that Moyes might have suceeded and stayed. According to you he'd either be crap or slightly better than crap...

They're not lame or guesses are they?

[Mole]

Lowes biggest flaw is the fact he's not a leader of men. He might be good at making money but his man management skills are shockingly poor. As a chairman of a football club you need to be proficient in both of these areas.

[Daren W]

In response to Duncan's opening post, surely Lowe's biggest mistake, aside from:

Not backing Strachan after the cup final,

Gray

Wigley

Wigley

Redknapp

Not keeping Pearson

Appointing Portvielt

Wotte

 

is his obsession with not using the tradition managerial role. When Hoddle left, Lowe became obsessed with the impact that managers leaving has on a club. When the various managers Lowe employed left, for one reason or another, they took their backroom staff with them.

 

The Moyes incident was directly down to that.

 

Shame that if Lowe didn't meddle and tinker then perhaps we might have had a manager who stayed longer than two years.

 

Actually that's Lowe's biggest mistake, over an a manager a year in his time in charge... A shocking statistic...

[Teddy Nutkins]

I believe he is a megalomaniac. Rupert knows best, will not listen to advice and if he does he dismisses it.You expect young children to repeat mistakes, not grown adults. Do one please.........

[70's Mike]

I believe he is a megalomaniac. Rupert knows best, will not listen to advice and if he does he dismisses it.You expect young children to repeat mistakes, not grown adults. Do one please.........

 

 

my kids are 21 and 14 now and they learn from their mistakes after a couple of repeats

[Fitzhugh Fella]

did I say it was right to absolve the crap...but I cant remember many complaints about the PLC in 2003...

 

I will never forget around 1000 saints fans singing rupert lowes red and white army at the pre-season friendly at plymouth in the summer of 2004...

 

oh, name one side that gets to the cup final WITHOUT a hint of luck..?

A team like saints (and pompey) will need their fair share...I was not complaining or writing it off in 2003..not does that mean it was lowes great work either

 

I feel sad for you, being the clubs historian (or used to be) that you are happy to knock the fact we got to a cup final and europe for the first time in a generation...has anyone told you were are not barcelona and to do what we did was pretty darn brilliant..but what do I know

 

 

Dell Days, I am not knocking the trip to the final or the short jaunt into Europe. I enjoyed the Millennium (sp) experience as much as anyone but some on here use the fact that we beat a few also ran clubs inc Millwall, Wolves, Norwich and Watford to justify Lowe's ten years at the club. And Strachan screwed up the Final with his poor tactics, so he didn't come out of the whole run smelling of roses either.

(I will admit the Spurs home tie was an exception to the above but it was a one off)

Being the historian doesn't stop me expressing a view btw. I am also very careful with any criticisms in the books - you will not find anything anti Lowe in anything so far published or in the future - I have to concentrate on facts. For instance there is no mention of the pre-match march in my write up of the Swansea game or fans fighting fans v Doncaster.

 

Perhaps one day a book about the decline of Saints could be written but I doubt it would get past the lawyers. Crouch and Lowe's legal eagles would be all over it not to mention the execs.

[Wes Tender]

Everyone accuses this club of appointing "the cheap option" and Crouch's tenure was no different.

 

Gray and Wigley might have been the "cheap option"....or more like "the wrong option" but what's done is done.

 

If Moyes had been appointed he would have been greeted by Saints fans as and equally cheap option and not good enough, exactly like Sturrock was by many, and more recently Nigel Pearson.

 

There would have been no guarantee that Moyes could have done a job at Saints under the same constraints as the rest either, he has had far more resources at Eventon than he ever would have done here, but the one plus point would have been that he is nobody's yes man

 

Of course, the point is that we were in the Premiership at that time, so useless making comparisons with Sturrock and Pearson and the far more limited funds available to them.

 

But your last line is the key. Lowe only likes yes men, so Moyes wouldn't have lasted long here before he fell out with Lowe. Look back at Lowe's record with managers and anybody half decent can't work with him and all the yes men are useless. That is Lowe's big failing; he lacks humility, as somebody else pointed out.

[Wes Tender]

Being the historian doesn't stop me expressing a view btw. I am also very careful with any criticisms in the books - you will not find anything anti Lowe in anything so far published or in the future - I have to concentrate on facts. For instance there is no mention of the pre-match march in my write up of the Swansea game or fans fighting fans v Doncaster.

 

Perhaps one day a book about the decline of Saints could be written but I doubt it would get past the lawyers. Crouch and Lowe's legal eagles would be all over it not to mention the execs.

 

If you write up the Swansea game from an historical perspective, why would you leave out the fact that there was an anti board march beforehand? Would you also leave out mentioning that crowd numbers have been dwindling beyond the level of almost every other club in the land % wise and not make a reasoned judgement as to why that was? Both things are plainly because of the unpopularity of Lowe and Wilde. This is not conjecture or opinion; it is fact. Anybody out there care to dispute it? Anything in that statement that wouldn't get past Lowe's lawyers? As the club's historian, I hope that you won't be depriving the club's future fans of the truth because of worries that the book won't be published on legal grounds.

[jonah]

I think quite a few did [object to PLC status] - SISA, Chorley et al. No doubt some were preferring to deride them for so doing so.

 

Yes, and the majority still do, including:

 

* Lowe

* Wilde

* Crouch

 

I think they tried to gloss over the last one at the SISA meeting last year when Crouch burst their balloon by saying the PLC status has absolutely nothing to do with our current issues. If you are implying thatyou also think the PLC status is a mistake, then there's another very good reason why you shouldn't be trying to get Crouch back in charge.

 

Just because we got to a Cup Final (with a bit of luck and home draws only to then flunk it) does not absolve all the rest of the crap, we have had to suffer under the deranged Lowe.

 

Our European run wasn't exactly glorious or long-lived either, but Jonah still likes to hang his hat on it.

 

It doesn't surprise me that you even manage to see the negatives in our best season for a couple of decades Duncan. What exactly will make you happy? You got Lowe out for 2 whole seasons and look where we ended up. Did you enjoy the Branfoot days or craning your neck at the Dell to watch Widdrington/Hurlock/C ockerill hoof the ball upfield? I've never heard you even mention those fun seasons of dross and depression (MLT excepted).