Lowe's biggest mistake?

[Scudamore]

But you just said he only employed 'yes men' who didn't have the balls to stand their ground? So was WGS hired by RL as a 'yes man' or not?

 

Yes....no wait...i best ask Rupert...

 

No apparently...

[Frank's cousin]

Yet more Lowe apologia and excuse-making from you.........

 

Did you not read the post above Alpine? Kepp the insults coming though as with everyone you simply continue to highlight your ignorance erode any credibilty who once may have had....

 

Its so funny Alpine, that you never respond when youve been caught out - as for thsoe you maybe intentially missed it the above post said quite simply:

 

Lowe's biggest mistake - not learning from any of them...

 

This is now considered in Alpines distorted view of teh world as luvvish???? as the Yanks say Go figure?

Edited 16 February, 2009 by Frank's cousin

[once_bitterne]

But he didn't. He quite categorically stated he would appoint who he wanted as the fans didn't run the club.

 

Hoddle decided not to come back because he knew that he did not have the full support of the board.

 

That decision was taken from Lowe by Hoddle himself

 

I don't believe that is true for a second. Hoddle wanted to come back here and understood from Lowe that he would be offered the job. Unf the view of some of the fans got to Lowe/the board and changed the situation.

 

When Hoddle realised he was not going to be offered the job he quickly arranged the 20 minute interview with SSN held at some golf club to give the impression that it was HIS decision not to come back. This was a total PR effort by Hoddle and the interview was held a matter of hours before Sturrock was unveiled.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Ahh I see, anyone who agrees with the chairman doesn't have balls. PResumably NP didn't have balls because he agreed with Crouch?

 

 

 

But you just said he only employed 'yes men' who didn't have the balls to stand their ground? So was WGS hired by RL as a 'yes man' or not?

 

Oh dear...you missed the point again Jonah.

 

WGS was the exception to the rule.

 

WGS aside, all of his other managers have had their fingers burnt under him - in fact include WGS in that (Malbranque and Saha??!)

 

Souness - walked;

Dave Jones - we don't need to go into that one;

Hoddle - walked;

Gray - 'a mutual' - who signed Delgado again??

Wigley - 'a mutual' - tell me he ever said 'no' to Rupert;

Sturrock - 'a mutual' - hmmmm...with the truth ever come out?

Redknapp - a very one-sided story - would love to know Harry's view;

Wise and Bassett - I don't think that they left with positive thoughts;

Burley - hmmmm

Pearson - probably glad he didn't have to work with him.

 

How many public statements of support has Lowe received from those in that list after they left????

 

One. WGS' autobigraphy.

 

Would be interested if you could find another. I won't hold my breath, it will be like waiting for a home win.

[gordonToo]

There are some people in life whose judgement fails them with almost every major decision. Lowe is one such person and sadly it is only the major shareholders that are able to call him to account. Unfortunatley most of them seem to suffer from the same affliction.

 

The worst mistake? I'd have to say involving himself with SCW which served only to heighten his own sense of self importance and steepen the decline on the playing side.

[Cabrone]

Coming back a 2nd time to finish off his demolition of SFC.

 

After that his refusal to provide Redknapp with sufficient funds in the first relegation season. I saw us batter teams in the 1st half of that season (Reading (h), Ipswich (a) to name but 2) without ever scoring the crucial goals. Not surprising when all Lowe was willing to spend was 90k on Fuller.

 

If Lowe had sanctioned funds for a decent striker having lost BT, Crouch and Phillips (and trousered a heap of cash) then I believe we would have been promoted at the first attempt and things would have been very different.

 

Once again the useless fool thought we could function on the cheap and in the process made a disastrous strategic decision.

[SW11_Saint]

I really don't understand the obsession with looking in the rear-view mirror unless it's to learn lessons - in this case I see nothing wrong with the original idea, the lesson that should have been learnt was that promoting coaches - who are naturally on friendly terms with the players - is not a good idea.

Hit the nail on the head. So you'd agree with me then, that Lowe's most abominable mistake was to appoint Wigley, having failed to learn his lesson with Gray.

 

You could also extend that point to Wotte, but at least we can console ourselves with the fact that this will be his 'third strike', as he finally finishes the club off...

[SaintRobbie]

Biggest mistake?

 

Tricky one. There are genuinely so many critical errors and bad decisions it is hard to narrow it down. Honestly. But I think not listening to his wife is his biggest mistake.

 

I think if I had to pick one it is because ultimately it is the one that leads us into the lowest place we've been in 49 years...Lowe's biggest mistake was coming back and introducing Dutch Total Football. A gamble to far, never likely to work, has destroyed morale internally and amongst the fans and will result in relegation.

 

Lowe should have listened to his wife.

[jonah]

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing but just because it exists shouldn't preclude us asking or wondering what life would have been like had Lowe accepted Moyes's demands to bring his backroom staff. Would we be where we are, lower even? I would hope and wager not.

 

The problem is Duncan, you're not "just wondering", you're starting off on Monday morning citing it as "Lowe's Biggest Mistake" in order to start yet another anti-Lowe thread on here. Why not wonder what would have happened if LM hadn't got us relegated in 1974? Or if the board had got us into a new stadium after 1976 and placed us in a *real* sustainable financial position to compete at the top level in the early 80s?

 

Moyes was keen to come but all the time we both had a nagging dread that Lowe would take the option that would be the financially friendly route and employ Gray on a lower salary.

 

So if Gray was on a lower salary surely that meant we had more money to spend on players, no? Why is that "financially friendly"? If we had paid more to get Moyes (relatively unproven Preston manager remember), and paid Gray's contract up when Moyes replaced him, we'd have had less cash for players - you'd have preferred that?

 

Plus of course by then Lowe was already eyeing becoming more involved in the football side of things (he liked the continuity idea of a DoF role) and Gray would have been far more malleable than a grumpy, ambitious jock.

 

Errrr, like WGS you mean? So, he didn't want grumpy old ambitious Moyes, but 3 months later he employed grumpy old ambitious WGS instead? Because after all, the problem you always cite with WGS was that RL didn't match his ambition... which obviously contradicts all the above.

 

Personally I think the problem with Gray (and the lesson to be learned) was that the players wanted him - he was too familiar and friendly with them. That's a recipe for disaster - removing Gray quickly was correct and the right thing to do, not learning from that mistake with Wigley was something worth criticising.

[aintforever]

1 Wigley - worst Premiership appointment by anyone ever.

2 Poortvleit/Wotte - Footballing suicide

3 Renewing Redknapp's contract when he clearly wasn't motivated, giving him naff all to spend then forcing Woodward and Clifford on him just to really screw up our "re-promotion" season.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Biggest mistake?

 

Tricky one. There are genuinely so many critical errors and bad decisions it is hard to narrow it down. Honestly. But I think not listening to his wife is his biggest mistake.

 

I think if I had to pick one it is because ultimately it is the one that leads us into the lowest place we've been in 49 years...Lowe's biggest mistake was coming back and introducing Dutch Total Football. A gamble to far, never likely to work, has destroyed morale internally and amongst the fans and will result in relegation.

 

Lowe should have listened to his wife.

 

Did his wife want Pearson in then?

[um pahars]

I remember an Echo sports journo at the time told me Gray was always going to get the nod and so it proved.

 

IMHO, Gray was always going to get the job, once Moyes was out of the running (something that a number of my contacts assured me would be the case).

 

Even publicly, throughout that time Lowe spoke about the need for continuity, he also let Gray sign Anders Svensson for just under £1m.

 

I was led to believe that once Moyes ruled himself out by not being able to bring in his own men, Gray was effectively given the job.

[jonah]

Hit the nail on the head. So you'd agree with me then, that Lowe's most abominable mistake was to appoint Wigley, having failed to learn his lesson with Gray.

 

Yes I would agree that was probably his worst mistake - but keeping our minds parked firmly in the Reality Parking Space with the handbrake on, that was corrected at minimal cost with plenty of time to correct the short period he was in charge (14 matches was it, with no changes to playing squad?). Hardly a disaster even if it was stupid - what idiot couldn't get our team to perform 1 point better in the second half of the season compared to someone as disastruous as Wigley eh? I mean *Wigley*, how could you do worse than him? Especially after over-spending in the January transfer window and having players like Crouch, Beattie and Phillips to call on?

[Channon's Sideburns]

Yes I would agree that was probably his worst mistake - but keeping our minds parked firmly in the Reality Parking Space with the handbrake on, that was corrected at minimal cost with plenty of time to correct the short period he was in charge (14 matches was it, with no changes to playing squad?). Hardly a disaster even if it was stupid - what idiot couldn't get our team to perform 1 point better in the second half of the season compared to someone as disastruous as Wigley eh? I mean *Wigley*, how could you do worse than him? Especially after over-spending in the January transfer window and having players like Crouch, Beattie and Phillips to call on?

 

What Redknapp did whilst in charge doesn't allieviate Lowe of responsibility...so what was Redknapp then, another poor Lowe appointment??????

[um pahars]

Yes I would agree that was probably his worst mistake - but keeping our minds parked firmly in the Reality Parking Space with the handbrake on, that was corrected at minimal cost with plenty of time to correct the short period he was in charge (14 matches was it, with no changes to playing squad?). Hardly a disaster even if it was stupid - what idiot couldn't get our team to perform 1 point better in the second half of the season compared to someone as disastruous as Wigley eh? I mean *Wigley*, how could you do worse than him? Especially after over-spending in the January transfer window and having players like Crouch, Beattie and Phillips to call on?

 

Two points on this one:

 

Firstly, if a rot has set in (and it had set in deep with us, even getting spanked by Watford), then it will take some undoing. Wigley left us in the bottom three after a disastrous run of games against our relegation rivals.

 

We had wasted the important pre season build up and a fairly sizeable sum with regards transfers (with most of it being spent by someone else!!). A period when players are bought, sides are shaped and the season planned out.

 

Wigley left us two games from halfway through the season and whilst nothing is decided at that point (unless you're Derby), we were left in a mess.

 

Secondly, albeit with hindsight, you do have to question Lowe's appointment of Redknapp, a man whose was apparently not in it from day one. You would have thought that might have been teased out in the selection process;)

[Window Cleaner]

Two points on this one:

 

Firstly, if a rot has set in (and it had set in deep with us, even getting spanked by Watford), then it will take some undoing. Wigley left us in the bottom three after a disastrous run of games against our relegation rivals.

 

We had wasted the important pre season build up and a fairly sizeable sum with regards transfers (with most of it being spent by someone else!!). A period when players are bought, sides are shaped and the season planned out.

 

Wigley left us two games from halfway through the season and whilst nothing is decided at that point (unless you're Derby), we were left in a mess.

 

Secondly, albeit with hindsight, you do have to question Lowe's appointment of Redknapp, a man whose was apparently not in it from day one. You would have thought that might have been teased out in the selection process;)

 

Agreed on Redknapp.In my own opinion he is a good manager but if you cramp his style, as Rupert probably did, then you are going to get nothing out of him.

If you want to get the best out of Harry you have to trust him, turn a blind eye to his methods and pay the bill.Otherwise whatever you pay him is likely to be pure waste.There are people like him in most walks of life,if you want results don't look too closely at how they're achieved.

[Cabrone]

Yes I would agree that was probably his worst mistake - but keeping our minds parked firmly in the Reality Parking Space with the handbrake on, that was corrected at minimal cost with plenty of time to correct the short period he was in charge (14 matches was it, with no changes to playing squad?). Hardly a disaster even if it was stupid - what idiot couldn't get our team to perform 1 point better in the second half of the season compared to someone as disastruous as Wigley eh? I mean *Wigley*, how could you do worse than him? Especially after over-spending in the January transfer window and having players like Crouch, Beattie and Phillips to call on?

 

Talking of reality checks you seem to think it's a piece of cake to take over a nosediving club and get it to instantly turn around. Well in the real world I'm afraid it's not.

 

By the time Redknapp arrived the damage had been done, we were spiralling downwards and better managers than Redknapp would have struggled to pull us out of the Lowe orchestated mess we found ourselves in. Morale was really low, confidence was low, results were poor (anyone remember seeing us get stuffed at Watford in the Carling cup? I do and it was humiliating) and there (to me at least) appeared to be an air of resigned apathy about the whole place.

 

I remember seeing his 1st game in charge at White Hart Lane and we were hammered, it was embarrasing to watch. Even at that stage of the season I can remember thinking to myself that our prem status was touch and go and as it turned out it was 'go'.

 

When he actually had a close season to get his team together I thought he did a really good job considering Lowe had completely tied his hands behind his back. IMO all we needed was the striker to bag us 15-20 goals, someone like Rasiak or Nugent would have cost 2-3M and would have made the difference. But you-know-who couldn't see this and refused to sanction funds.

 

We then collapsed half way through the season, never to recover.

 

It was at this point that my patience with Lowe snapped.

[um pahars]

Agreed on Redknapp.In my own opinion he is a good manager but if you cramp his style, as Rupert probably did, then you are going to get nothing out of him.

If you want to get the best out of Harry you have to trust him, turn a blind eye to his methods and pay the bill.Otherwise whatever you pay him is likely to be pure waste.There are people like him in most walks of life,if you want results don't look too closely at how they're achieved.

 

Lowe has his way of working (and I have some issues with his over involvement) and Reknapp has his way of working (and I have some issues with his old school methodology), but what became clear was that there was no way these two were going to be able to pull it off.

 

As you say, you have to just either let Redknapp get on with it, or not appoint him in the first place. I know it was after we were relegated, but that press conference with SCW, Arry and Lowe just summed it al up for me. All smiles in front of the cameras, stabbing each other in the back off of it!!!

[jonah]

Morale was really low, confidence was low, results were poor

 

Fer sure, but that's why the team was down the bottom! You're either down the bottom because you're simply not good enough (us this season), or because you have under-performing players (us when Redknapp arrived). All the other teams down there had similar problems otherwise they wouldn't have been there - all our players needed was some confidence and a couple of steady team-players to bond them... what did we get? Davenport, the worst defender I swear I have ever seen, Bernard who never spoke a word to anyone else in the team, crocked Redknapp Jr who kept falling on the ball when he did play, and Camara, hardly a team-player by anyone's stretch of the imagination. All we needed on top of that was for Redknapp to slate the players and someone like Quashie to really help split the camp.

 

I don't like Redknapp but thought he'd get us out of it given he had the Jan transfer window. But there were some dreadful decisions, tactics and performances along the way (Boro, Villa, Everton) which stuffed us. And even the very last match we still had a chance but he changed the team on the morning of the game after training a different formation all week. I don't think bringing him in was bad at the time, but having seen him in action I didn't like keeping him on and I don't understand why we did that unless it was to avoid being seen to sack a manager.

 

As for the £90k on Fuller - (a) what a bargain, shame the fans were too blinkered to see it and obsessed with the figure instead, and (b) it's been done to death but there was more to spend only Redknapp never got beyond Clinton Morrison who then turned us down.

[Give it to Ron]

Lowes biggest mistake....believing that spending money on quality players in the same division made them stronger not us!

So buying cheap foreign imports like Jacobsen and Nilsson and bloating the squad to over 41 players was a good policy.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Lowes biggest mistake....believing that spending money on quality players in the same division made them stronger not us!

So buying cheap foreign imports like Jacobsen and Nilsson and bloating the squad to over 41 players was a good policy.

 

Hmmm..history repeating??

 

Liptak/Gasmi???

[SW11_Saint]

Fer sure, but that's why the team was down the bottom! You're either down the bottom because you're simply not good enough (us this season), or because you have under-performing players (us when Redknapp arrived). All the other teams down there had similar problems otherwise they wouldn't have been there - all our players needed was some confidence and a couple of steady team-players to bond them... what did we get? Davenport, the worst defender I swear I have ever seen, Bernard who never spoke a word to anyone else in the team, crocked Redknapp Jr who kept falling on the ball when he did play, and Camara, hardly a team-player by anyone's stretch of the imagination. All we needed on top of that was for Redknapp to slate the players and someone like Quashie to really help split the camp.

 

I don't like Redknapp but thought he'd get us out of it given he had the Jan transfer window. But there were some dreadful decisions, tactics and performances along the way (Boro, Villa, Everton) which stuffed us. And even the very last match we still had a chance but he changed the team on the morning of the game after training a different formation all week. I don't think bringing him in was bad at the time, but having seen him in action I didn't like keeping him on and I don't understand why we did that unless it was to avoid being seen to sack a manager.

 

As for the £90k on Fuller - (a) what a bargain, shame the fans were too blinkered to see it and obsessed with the figure instead, and (b) it's been done to death but there was more to spend only Redknapp never got beyond Clinton Morrison who then turned us down.

Another convenient re-writing of history to protect Lowe from any criticism. Are you his Chief of Staff or something?

 

You're right, Redknapp did have (some) of the transfer window, but wasn't given any money to spend in it - so we had to rely on the one small purchase (Fuller) and some loan signings. I actually thought that Redknapp Jnr did a reasonable job when he was fit (not often, admittedly) and don't forget Camara scored some crucial goals. We also of course had Crouch sitting in the reserves until HR came along. It was Harry's pivotal use of him that at least started us playing to whatever limited strenghts we had.

 

I always find the scapegoating of Redknapp interesting - it's very convenient for Lowe (and his diehard followers like your good self), and his departure back 'down the road' blinds people to a objective analysis of his tenure. Yes, he failed, yes he had bad luck, but he also had his hands tied financially (when he's allowed to "wheel and deal" the results are there for all to see), and had a Chairman who didn't believe in him.

 

Redknapp will carry the can for many, especially those desperately trying to absolve Lowe of all accountability, but the uphill task he inherited from Wigley, and the confines within which he was required to work (financially and structurally), never really gave him or us the chance needed...

[jonah]

We also of course had Crouch sitting in the reserves until HR came along. It was Harry's pivotal use of him that at least started us playing to whatever limited strenghts we had.]

 

I thought Crouch started playing because Redknapp sold Beattie to help fund his loans?

 

I always find the scapegoating of Redknapp interesting Yes, he failed

 

Damn that unfair scapegoating! :-)

 

he also had his hands tied financially (when he's allowed to "wheel and deal" the results are there for all to see), and had a Chairman who didn't believe in him.

 

What nonsense, he brought in 5 players in the Jan window - that's half the team. We also overspent in that window, by £1.5m I believe. If it's so cut-and-dried that it was a no-hope situation then (a) why did Redknapp take the job in the first place, and (b) why the clamour to replace JP if there's no hope of anyone rescuing a club near the bottom? Twaddle and poppycok old boy.

 

Redknapp will carry the can for many, especially those desperately trying to absolve Lowe of all accountability, but the uphill task he inherited from Wigley, and the confines within which he was required to work (financially and structurally), never really gave him or us the chance needed...

 

On the contrary, outside of this place most people are not obsessive about RL and just hold opinions based upon their view of facts rather than villifying someone they've never even met. That's why normal people see RL's faults like they can see Redknapp or Crouch's faults. But that's why you view Redknapp failing as being RL's fault, the appointment by the board also solely RL's fault... it's not very healthy really. If you take out the names it sounds ridiculous - "throwing away a 2 goal lead at home, twice, was the fault of the chairman of the PLC holding company of the football club". It just doesn't make sense.

[SW11_Saint]

Yes I would agree that was probably his worst mistake - but keeping our minds parked firmly in the Reality Parking Space with the handbrake on, that was corrected at minimal cost with plenty of time to correct the short period he was in charge (14 matches was it, with no changes to playing squad?). Hardly a disaster even if it was stupid - what idiot couldn't get our team to perform 1 point better in the second half of the season compared to someone as disastruous as Wigley eh? I mean *Wigley*, how could you do worse than him? Especially after over-spending in the January transfer window and having players like Crouch, Beattie and Phillips to call on?

 

Perhaps some analysis of those 14 "Wigley games" is in order, many at home, and most against teams we'd normally expect to beat. Or would that reality slip the handbrake off your (rose tinted windowed?) Rupertmobile...?

Edited 16 February, 2009 by SW11_Saint

[um pahars]

Perhaps some analysis of those 14 "Wigley games" is in order, many at home, and most against teams we'd normally expect to beat. Or would that reality, slip the handbrake off your (rose tinted windowed?) Rupertmobile...?

 

Firstly, it wasn't 14 games it was 16. We were in the bottom 3 when Wigley left and going downhill fast. That defeat against Watford was particularly demoralising as we were stuffed in every sense of the word.

 

Getting on to our third manager in a season, having wasted the pre season and the transfer kitty was always asking for trouble. The very fact that we then appointed someone whose heart wasn't in it just adds fuel to the fire. One can only assume our recruitment process is not very robust.

 

Secondly, I enjoyed Jonah asking the Board to accept responsibility about Redknapp's appointment (as i think they probably should). Not sure they could accept responsibility about the appointment of Wigley mind, as some of them weren't even consulted!!!!!!

 

That last season in the top flight was not unlucky, unfortunate or just one of those things, it was gross mismanagement almost from the off.

 

Going down fighting is one thing, giving yourself a mountain to climb due to some disastrous management/board decisions is another thing entirely.

[OldNick]

Perhaps some analysis of those 14 "Wigley games" is in order, many at home, and most against teams we'd normally expect to beat. Or would that reality, slip the handbrake off your (rose tinted windowed?) Rupertmobile...?

i believe that Wigley was a mistake BUT to be fair, he was told by medical people that Killer would be back.We suffered from players like BT and Phillips having long injury lay offs, I recall at Everton we had to play 2 17year olds up front. We were seconds away from winning at Highbury and it was only a wonderful goal from Van Persie that stopped us (although my experience of saints at Arsenal is that the ref will play until they get a result) and in the crucial home game with WBA Niemi was injured and we played a keeper who made 2 terrible mistakes to allow us only a draw.A win at Arsenal would have kept us up and so would have a win at home to WBA.

I dont think there is an innocent in all parties involved in the relegation season, it is just convienient to blame RL

[OldNick]

Firstly, it wasn't 14 games it was 16. We were in the bottom 3 when Wigley left and going downhill fast. That defeat against Watford was particularly demoralising as we were stuffed in every sense of the word.

 

Getting on to our third manager in a season, having wasted the pre season and the transfer kitty was always asking for trouble. The very fact that we then appointed someone whose heart wasn't in it just adds fuel to the fire. One can only assume our recruitment process is not very robust.

 

Secondly, I enjoyed Jonah asking the Board to accept responsibility about Redknapp's appointment (as i think they probably should). Not sure they could accept responsibility about the appointment of Wigley mind, as some of them weren't even consulted!!!!!!

 

That last season in the top flight was not unlucky, unfortunate or just one of those things, it was gross mismanagement almost from the off.

 

Going down fighting is one thing, giving yourself a mountain to climb due to some disastrous management/board decisions is another thing entirely.

You are normally right about facts etc but are you 100% sure we were in the bottom 3 when HR arrived as i thought we were just above, as i say you are probably right on that though

[Channon's Sideburns]

i believe that Wigley was a mistake BUT to be fair, he was told by medical people that Killer would be back.We suffered from players like BT and Phillips having long injury lay offs, I recall at Everton we had to play 2 17year olds up front. We were seconds away from winning at Highbury and it was only a wonderful goal from Van Persie that stopped us (although my experience of saints at Arsenal is that the ref will play until they get a result) and in the crucial home game with WBA Niemi was injured and we played a keeper who made 2 terrible mistakes to allow us only a draw.A win at Arsenal would have kept us up and so would have a win at home to WBA.

I dont think there is an innocent in all parties involved in the relegation season, it is just convienient to blame RL

 

Maybe Nick, but who is going to take the blame for relegation this season then???

 

Poortvliet?

Wotte?

The Fans?

Woggy Taylor?

 

One thing is for sure - Rupey Baby will come out of this blameless as usual..along with Teflon David Jones and 'Lord Lucan' Wilde...

 

Step forwards Messrs Askham, Richards, Withers, Winsor-Clive...you stand before us charged with dereliction of duty towards SFC....

[jonah]

Perhaps some analysis of those 14 "Wigley games" is in order, many at home, and most against teams we'd normally expect to beat. Or would that reality slip the handbrake off your (rose tinted windowed?) Rupertmobile...?

 

No, apparently analysing NP's 14 games in charge was not fair game as he inherited someone else's squad, then he hadn't had enough time to impose his own style, and then it wasn't representative enough to look at individual games even if half of them were "easy games".

 

So I wouldn't want to rock the HMS Lunatic Fringe lifeboat by applying such analysis to Wigley's run, especially as he didn't have the benefit of bringing in 5 loan players like NP, however I can't believe you're trying to prove Redknapp didn't stand a chance of doing better than Wigley because "we'd already had all the easy games by November and there were only really hard ones left against teams we'd expect to beat at home but expect to lose to away" - classic, thanks ;-)

[Lets B Avenue]

i believe that Wigley was a mistake BUT to be fair, he was told by medical people that Killer would be back.We suffered from players like BT and Phillips having long injury lay offs, I recall at Everton we had to play 2 17year olds up front. We were seconds away from winning at Highbury and it was only a wonderful goal from Van Persie that stopped us (although my experience of saints at Arsenal is that the ref will play until they get a result) and in the crucial home game with WBA Niemi was injured and we played a keeper who made 2 terrible mistakes to allow us only a draw.A win at Arsenal would have kept us up and so would have a win at home to WBA.

I dont think there is an innocent in all parties involved in the relegation season, it is just convienient to blame RL

 

Arenal away, Sept 1988. ****erell versus Davis. Mr David Axcell played nearly 15 mins injury time before Arsenal equalised and ended our 100% start to the season. Never saw him ref us again, but as you can see he still haunts me to this day.

[70's Mike]

all to serious, going back to the original title

 

his dad made it

[SW11_Saint]

I thought Crouch started playing because Redknapp sold Beattie to help fund his loans?

Very possibly, well done him in that case - spotting that we had a useful resource hanging arond doing nothing vs. one that would enable him to freshen up the team (note Beattie vs. Crouch careers success since). A good piece of business, I'm sure you'll agree?

 

Damn that unfair scapegoating! :-)

It's brutally unfair isn't it! Mind you don't confuse it with "accountability" mind Jonah, they are very different. An easy (convenient?) mistake to make, but note quite the same thing old chap. Would you "scapegoat" the bloke brought into manage the sweet-counter at Woollies for their ultimate demise? Nah, neither would I... that would be missing the issue totally.

 

What nonsense, he brought in 5 players in the Jan window - that's half the team. We also overspent in that window, by £1.5m I believe. If it's so cut-and-dried that it was a no-hope situation then (a) why did Redknapp take the job in the first place, and (b) why the clamour to replace JP if there's no hope of anyone rescuing a club near the bottom? Twaddle and poppycok old boy.

Again, well done him - he inherited an underperforming, leaderless team with their morale on the floor. Freshening up with new blood is the obvious thing to do, and what any manager worth their salt would at least attempt.

 

I am not saying that Redknapp is completely absolved of all blame in our relegation, of course he had a part to play - but to my mind a minor role compared to those who had made blunder after blunder in managerial appointments (you clearly include HR himself among those poor managerial appointments), and left him with a mountain to climb (with his arms tied behind his back!).

 

RE. your point b) it ALWAYS has to be worth a gamble if someone is failing dismally (ref. Wigley, JP). It was absolutely right to replace Wigley, and "gamble" with someone else, but if you're gong to select someone like Redknapp - and surely anyone in football knows how he operates?? - then you need to give him adequate backing to succeed. Otherwise, go appoint someone else.

 

All irreleveant now anyway - here we are in a very similar position, one league rung lower, and Lowe has AGAIN made the same mistake, appointing from within. Someone with at very best a mixed track record and no experience of managing in the English league. We know the outcome, just a case of waiting for it to happen. Still, you and Rupes will be happy as it's been done "at little cost" (ignoring relegation, a 3/4 empty stadium next year, and possible administration, natch!).

 

 

 

On the contrary, outside of this place most people are not obsessive about RL and just hold opinions based upon their view of facts rather than villifying someone they've never even met. That's why normal people see RL's faults like they can see Redknapp or Crouch's faults. But that's why you view Redknapp failing as being RL's fault, the appointment by the board also solely RL's fault... it's not very healthy really. If you take out the names it sounds ridiculous - "throwing away a 2 goal lead at home, twice, was the fault of the chairman of the PLC holding company of the football club". It just doesn't make sense.

"outside of this place" - this message board you mean? Not sure, I have lots of mates who don't post here, but are more than interested in Ruperts continuing dismantling of SFC... outside of Saints, fans I agree - no one really cares, although you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who knows football, and I mean ANYONE, who has a good word to say about your beloved Rupert Lowe.

 

I hope I am objective enough to see the faults of all of those who have failed SFC - and I include Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc. in that number, along with a host of less than average managers and players. Rupert's track record for sustained mismanagement, and moreover making the same mistakes time and time again, stands head and shoulders above anyone elses though - hence why you (and he) feel he's "victimised". Again... one word - ACCOUNTABILITY. Comes with the territory I'm afraid.

 

Toodle pip!

[OldNick]

Maybe Nick, but who is going to take the blame for relegation this season then???

 

Poortvliet?

Wotte?

The Fans?

Woggy Taylor?

 

One thing is for sure - Rupey Baby will come out of this blameless as usual..along with Teflon David Jones and 'Lord Lucan' Wilde...

 

Step forwards Messrs Askham, Richards, Withers, Winsor-Clive...you stand before us charged with dereliction of duty towards SFC....

I myself will blame RL for keeping Jan too long.There again if the fans turn on the club when we still have ample time to stay up they will not be above some blame.

[OldNick]

Arenal away, Sept 1988. ****erell versus Davis. Mr David Axcell played nearly 15 mins injury time before Arsenal equalised and ended our 100% start to the season. Never saw him ref us again, but as you can see he still haunts me to this day.

That was 1 I was alluding to.

[alpine_saint]

I myself will blame RL for keeping Jan too long.There again if the fans turn on the club when we still have ample time to stay up they will not be above some blame.

 

You're barking, mate...

[TheMidfieldGeneral]

I blame Lowe for listening to the Anti Hoddle Brigade

[SW11_Saint]

No, apparently analysing NP's 14 games in charge was not fair game as he inherited someone else's squad, then he hadn't had enough time to impose his own style, and then it wasn't representative enough to look at individual games even if half of them were "easy games".

 

So I wouldn't want to rock the HMS Lunatic Fringe lifeboat by applying such analysis to Wigley's run, especially as he didn't have the benefit of bringing in 5 loan players like NP, however I can't believe you're trying to prove Redknapp didn't stand a chance of doing better than Wigley because "we'd already had all the easy games by November and there were only really hard ones left against teams we'd expect to beat at home but expect to lose to away" - classic, thanks ;-)

Assuming you really do mean NP, and not SW... NP kept us up... or is that a minor issue that we should ignore?!?

 

I'm not suggesting Redknapp "didn't stand a chance" at all - merely that he wasn't given ENOUGH of a chance by the board (financially or organisationally), given the way he operates. Mind, it really doesn't help coming aboard when a club has been through a sequence of 1 win in 14 - you can't seriously be suggesting that had no bearing on the job that Redknapp was charged with? Can you?

 

Aaahhhh... the old "lunatic fringe" - wondered how long it'd be!! (Pssst... supporter for 35+ years, professional person, shareholder, season ticket holder for more than 20 years - of sound mind and body, as far as I'm aware - and my last medical checkup). Still, always helps to lob that group noun in to try and underimine reasonably sane argument doesn't it?

[OldNick]

You're barking, mate...

Alps we have 42 points to play for and 5 adrift.If we were 5 points clear and knew that the team below us had 14 games to play would you realistically believe we were safe.

Defeatism on here is all around, its like France 1940.

[um pahars]

You are normally right about facts etc but are you 100% sure we were in the bottom 3 when HR arrived as i thought we were just above, as i say you are probably right on that though

 

Last paragraph.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=3904

[alpine_saint]

Alps we have 42 points to play for and 5 adrift.If we were 5 points clear and knew that the team below us had 14 games to play would you realistically believe we were safe.

Defeatism on here is all around, its like France 1940.

 

Try referring to our form this season. You really want to wake up a bit.

[OldNick]

Last paragraph.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=3904

Thanks for that, Id have hated to have to come on and apologise for getting it wrong

[um pahars]

Defeatism on here is all around, its like France 1940.

 

nickh, you really should go easy on such lines.

 

Many were derided on here as being pessimists, doom mongers etc etc etc at the start of the season, whilst many (yourself included) were quick to harangue them for actually just being realistic (and as it turned out quite prophetic).

 

Given our current position and given our current form, it's not unrealistic to think we will probably be relegated.

 

Of course none of us want that to happen and we hope there is still plenty of time to turn things around, but claims of defeatism etc are a tad harsh.

[OldNick]

Try referring to our form this season. You really want to wake up a bit.

i dont know how long you have followed saints but in my time i have seen us in many worse states than now.I agree we haven't got a MLT but a flukey win will change things for us.The pressure by us winning a couple would put pressure on thise above.In fact our worse time would be if we get 4 points above as we would crumble if the pressure from below us.Charlton have won and are catching us, and so we are not the only ones looking rt o drag our way out of this mess.

[um pahars]

i dont know how long you have followed saints but in my time i have seen us in many worse states than now.

 

I presume you were watching us in 1960 then, because we have never been so low!!!!

[OldNick]

nickh, you really should go easy on such lines.

 

Many were derided on here as being pessimists, doom mongers etc etc etc at the start of the season, whilst many (yourself included) were quick to harangue them for actually just being realistic (and as it turned out quite prophetic).

 

Given our current position and given our current form, it's not unrealistic to think we will probably be relegated.

 

Of course none of us want that to happen and we hope there is still plenty of time to turn things around, but claims of defeatism etc are a tad harsh.

But they are only prohetic if it comes to pass.Do you not agree with the folly of sayong we are relegated already with 14 games to go? To me that is defeatis to the highest degree.

as for the doom mongers, some I have the greatest respect for as they were at least seeing it from an even prospective while some are doom mongers for doom monger sake.

it was fairly evident that if yuo took the risk the club did things may turn out bad, it was a case of giving it a chnace to fail before being completely down on it

[um pahars]

But they are only prohetic if it comes to pass.Do you not agree with the folly of sayong we are relegated already with 14 games to go? To me that is defeatis to the highest degree.

as for the doom mongers, some I have the greatest respect for as they were at least seeing it from an even prospective while some are doom mongers for doom monger sake.

it was fairly evident that if yuo took the risk the club did things may turn out bad, it was a case of giving it a chnace to fail before being completely down on it

 

We're not down yet, by any stretch of the imagination and as long as we have a chance then the team will get my support. I'm sure that's true of most supporters, who although they think we probably will go down, they will nto give up supporting the team until we have no chance.

 

But that's not the same as branding everyone as defeatists and as bad as the French in the 1940's.

 

Realistic, yes, defeatists no way.

[Channon's Sideburns]

But they are only prohetic if it comes to pass.Do you not agree with the folly of sayong we are relegated already with 14 games to go? To me that is defeatis to the highest degree.

as for the doom mongers, some I have the greatest respect for as they were at least seeing it from an even prospective while some are doom mongers for doom monger sake.

it was fairly evident that if yuo took the risk the club did things may turn out bad, it was a case of giving it a chnace to fail before being completely down on it

 

Trouble is though Nick, we ALL see what mistakes are being made, even now.

 

If say, Rupey Baby had removed Poortvliet and replaced him with a manager of some experience in THIS league, he would have at least received some support for having the balls to make the change.

 

By promoting Wotte he has taken his eyes off the ball...AGAIN. He obviously can't have that many advisers, as someone, somewhere has to tell him he is acting like a right ****.

 

HE IS NEVER GOING TO LEARN...'THERE IS NONE SO BLIND...AS THOSE WHO WON'T SEE'

[Frank's cousin]

 

By promoting Wotte he has taken his eyes off the ball...AGAIN. He obviously can't have that many advisers, as someone, somewhere has to tell him he is acting like a right ****.

 

 

Agreed and probably his biggest feckin issue - lack of learning from teh previous mistakes and lack of advice - not sure he has folk around him who have the experience either let alone whether he would listen to them... Its my biggest gripe with the man.

[OldNick]

I presume you were watching us in 1960 then, because we have never been so low!!!!

Lol, no I dont think MLT was playing for us then. I do realise you were being just a ad pedantic you old tease you.I of course meant we have been in holes before and got out of worse ones than now.

[OldNick]

We're not down yet, by any stretch of the imagination and as long as we have a chance then the team will get my support. I'm sure that's true of most supporters, who although they think we probably will go down, they will nto give up supporting the team until we have no chance.

 

But that's not the same as branding everyone as defeatists and as bad as the French in the 1940's.

 

Realistic, yes, defeatists no way.

i was careful not to put you in that bracket Ump because that is not what I put you down as.