Is there any hope? Our country is ruined. It is a smeg hole. I am fed up. **** Brown

[Weston Super Saint]

 

As for the VAT rate cut. It has been a pain in the r-s for me. I spent half a day changing all my invoice templates and accounts system and will have to do like wise when it reverts back. So I lose one whole day of my year for bugger all gain.

 

LOL.

 

If you'd have saved the invoice templates and account system FIRST, you wouldn't have to change it back and would have saved yourself half a day!!

 

You only have yourself to blame

[1976_Child]

Of you go then, to a 'far away place'. Don't forget to take a flag to wave, for us to aim at. Live the dream knowing that your contribution to Trident has been well spent.

 

please see post above... I am not against Trident, never have been and never will be. It was a tongue in cheek post.

[1976_Child]

LOL.

 

If you'd have saved the invoice templates and account system FIRST, you wouldn't have to change it back and would have saved yourself half a day!!

 

You only have yourself to blame

 

I have saved them. Still takes time. And who's really convinced that the VAT rate will be reset to 17.5%? It might have to go up even further..

[View From The Top]

The idea of the VAT cut isn't to make things cheaper, but to encourage people to go out and spend money. Therefore, while the proposal you have suggest might make people better off, I think it is more likely they would save that money, not spend it.

 

But people won't spend at the moment due to the fear of soon losing their jobs.

 

The "New Deal" approach, a classic Keynesian solution, would be well suited to the current recession but it would need to be tied in with a radical overhaul of the banking sector.

 

Part of me is very happy that we will have to move away from the cheap credit, must have it even though I can't afford it, pull up the ladder, I'm all right Jack, consumerism and greed of the last 20 years.

 

Politically speaking, the only MP worth listening to on the recession is Vince Cable. He should be Chancellor IMHO.

[bungle]

But people won't spend at the moment due to the fear of soon losing their jobs.

 

The "New Deal" approach, a classic Keynesian solution, would be well suited to the current recession but it would need to be tied in with a radical overhaul of the banking sector.

 

Part of me is very happy that we will have to move away from the cheap credit, must have it even though I can't afford it, pull up the ladder, I'm all right Jack, consumerism and greed of the last 20 years.

 

Politically speaking, the only MP worth listening to on the recession is Vince Cable. He should be Chancellor IMHO.

 

People might not want to spend, but we must come up with measures that encourage people to keep spending what they can afford. It is vital that the economy continues to tick over, or the situation will get worse. I appreciate people now want to save and avoid spending, but ultimately government (nationally and locally) does have to try and find away to keep people spending some money.

[JohnnyFartPants]

But people won't spend at the moment due to the fear of soon losing their jobs.

 

The "New Deal" approach, a classic Keynesian solution, would be well suited to the current recession but it would need to be tied in with a radical overhaul of the banking sector.

 

Part of me is very happy that we will have to move away from the cheap credit, must have it even though I can't afford it, pull up the ladder, I'm all right Jack, consumerism and greed of the last 20 years.

 

Politically speaking, the only MP worth listening to on the recession is Vince Cable. He should be Chancellor IMHO.

 

Some truth to a point but a lot of stuff for the home has come down in price due to peoples desire to have things. A big f**k off TV is now affordable to most whereas before it was a luxury item. You can still buy the best f**k off tv and pay a fortune or get one for a couple of hundred quid.

[Wade Garrett]

But people won't spend at the moment due to the fear of soon losing their jobs.

 

The "New Deal" approach, a classic Keynesian solution, would be well suited to the current recession but it would need to be tied in with a radical overhaul of the banking sector.

 

Part of me is very happy that we will have to move away from the cheap credit, must have it even though I can't afford it, pull up the ladder, I'm all right Jack, consumerism and greed of the last 20 years.

 

Politically speaking, the only MP worth listening to on the recession is Vince Cable. He should be Chancellor IMHO.

 

Brown made the lamentable decision to take regulation of the City away from the Bank of England shortly after the election win of 1997. At the same time he also gave them control of interest rates.

 

Eddie George warned Brown of the consequences of taking away their regulation of the City. Unfortunately he was proved right.

 

It wasn't his finest moment. However, I remain totally unconvinced that Cameron and the hapless Osbourne are the people to guide us through the choppy waters.

 

Personally, I would like James Purnell as Prime Minister, Vincent Cable as Chancellor and David Davies as Home Secretary. Unfortunately, we have as much chance as Rupert Lowe leaving Saints.

 

Great minds Mr View....

[View From The Top]

People might not want to spend, but we must come up with measures that encourage people to keep spending what they can afford.

 

There is no way on Gods green planet that politicans, of any ilk, will get people to spend at the moment.

 

People have reigned in their spending or and they will not be convinced by some career politican in Westminster that they should be spending.

 

In fact, saving has become the new spending!

 

I've had a wager, a small one, with a poster on here, who works for Bank Of New York, that we see deflation within 18 months.

[1976_Child]

There is no way on Gods green planet that politicans, of any ilk, will get people to spend at the moment.

 

People have reigned in their spending or and they will not be convinced by some career politican in Westminster that they should be spending.

 

In fact, saving has become the new spending!

 

I've had a wager, a small one, with a poster on here, who works for Bank Of New York, that we see deflation within 18 months.

 

So long as we get deflation in our football tickets as well!

[Saint George]

Your criticism of Clinton is strange. His administration saw the longest period of U.S. economic expansion in history. He inherited a $237 billion deficit from Bush Sr. and by the end of his eight-year term had run three budget surpluses in a row. His administration also reduced the national debt by $363 billion. He took the deficit seriously and worked hard to eliminate it (through the use of some unpopular measures).

 

By contrast, take a look at the economic records of Reagan, George H. Bush and George W. Bush. All three were disasters for the U.S. econmy. Deficits and debt ballooned under those three Republican regimes - especially Reagan's and George W's. Their belief that showering tax cuts on the wealthiest of the wealthy would lead to a trickle down benefit to the entire population was shown to be a complete sham. Their approach was ignorant, reckless and foolhardy. They have saddled future generations with an incredible financial burden. And it is the attitudes of the financial elite that their policies fostered which led to the current financial collapse.

 

Why?.....Just because he did some good and i agree he did, doesn't exclude him from being responsible for screwing up in other areas.....Expanding Carters policy to force banks into making Sub prime loans and risking toxic debt was a huge mistake and started us on the road to where we are now

 

I'm a great admirer of Margarate Thatcher but i have to say she made a similar mistake...For different reasons, but the end result was still the same...Giving access to huge amounts of debt to people who had no ability, will or idea of how to manage it....Some peeps grabbed the opportunity with both hands, but many got them selves into a dier financial mess

 

Talking about the future financial burden from the Bush years.....What's your take on Chairman 'O's mega socialist spending package....Now thats a double burden and a half........The 1100 page piggy pork bill that got pushed through in 48 hours, giving no one a chance to read it ...and completely dwarfing anything Bush or Reagan ever did ...and he's only just started....With insufficient Republicans to keep the socialists in check, he and Polosi will be back for more in 6 months....Wait and see

 

"I will not sign any legislation until it has been up for public comment for a week".......Chairman O during his election campaign lol

[Saint Keith]

 

I've had a wager, a small one, with a poster on here, who works for Bank Of New York, that we see deflation within 18 months.

 

well official RPI is now down to 0.1%, so almost a certainty in the next couple of months. although this is a largely technical measure these days. CPI which is now more commonly used, is forecast to go negative in Q3 or 4 this year, so i think your wager is safe

[Draino76]

well official RPI is now down to 0.1%, so almost a certainty in the next couple of months. although this is a largely technical measure these days. CPI which is now more commonly used, is forecast to go negative in Q3 or 4 this year, so i think your wager is safe

 

We'll certainly see deflaton by definition for a couple of months,followed by hyperinflation for a couple of years.

[Weston Super Saint]

well official RPI is now down to 0.1%, so almost a certainty in the next couple of months. although this is a largely technical measure these days. CPI which is now more commonly used, is forecast to go negative in Q3 or 4 this year, so i think your wager is safe

 

But it was also forecast to drop a lot more than 0.1% this month and didn't :smt102

[Hamilton Saint]

Why?.....Just because he did some good and i agree he did, doesn't exclude him from being responsible for screwing up in other areas.....Expanding Carters policy to force banks into making Sub prime loans and risking toxic debt was a huge mistake and started us on the road to where we are now

 

I'm a great admirer of Margarate Thatcher but i have to say she made a similar mistake...For different reasons, but the end result was still the same...Giving access to huge amounts of debt to people who had no ability, will or idea of how to manage it....Some peeps grabbed the opportunity with both hands, but many got them selves into a dier financial mess

 

Talking about the future financial burden from the Bush years.....What's your take on Chairman 'O's mega socialist spending package....Now thats a double burden and a half........The 1100 page piggy pork bill that got pushed through in 48 hours, giving no one a chance to read it ...and completely dwarfing anything Bush or Reagan ever did ...and he's only just started....With insufficient Republicans to keep the socialists in check, he and Polosi will be back for more in 6 months....Wait and see

 

"I will not sign any legislation until it has been up for public comment for a week".......Chairman O during his election campaign lol

 

 

"Chairman O"?

 

"mega socialist spending package"?

 

It is possible, you know, to make your points without the simplistic labels and sloganeering. They would be more effective, too, in my opinion.

 

Right-wing American opinion does make me laugh. Anything slightly left of the very-right wing has to be either "communistic" or, for those who are not quite that rabid, "socialistic". I don't think they know what socialism is, or how it differs from "democratic socialism".

 

I note that your location is New Orleans. Mostly democrats down there, surely?

[Clapham Saint]

You're both missing the point - it's the fault of the state when this kind of bet goes wrong. Clearly it has to be. If it's labour in power then all the better - we can blame the damn socialists for our stupidity. We hate the nanny state....we blame the nanny state when we screw up......that's the rules isn't it?

 

In simple terms.....

 

Capitalism is currently the best of the poor range of options which we have.

 

Capitalism and human short term nature together will always result in boom and bust cycle.

 

Government involvement is therefore essential. During boom years governments should be looking to make sure things don't get out of hand. Use high tax revenue to reduce national debt etc.

 

When everything then goes to the s**t they are then in a position to be able to step in and offer support where it is needed.

 

The problem that we currently have is that Gordon Brown is a complete f**king moron and during the boom years anounced that he was a financial genius and that growth would never end ("No more boom and bust" etc).

 

Instead of putting money asside he did exactly the opposite of what he should have done. Instead of the government paying off debt and saving money for the inevitable down turn he mortgaged the country up to the hilt and then when his own "golden rules" limited him from borrowing any more he started PFI in order to hide future debt off balance sheet.

 

Now the down turn has come the cupboard is comepletely bare and he is digging the hole deeper and deeper.

 

I doubt that even he is stupid enough to beleive that the measures he has brought in are going to work but he is ploughing on regardless. As with another delusional "leader "closer to home his "vision" has failed (as it was always going to) but he is refusing to change course regardless of the impact upon the country.

 

I'm lucky in that I work in the insolvency industry but the vast vast majority are going to be very badly hurt by this for a LOT longer than another year (that some people have suggested).

Edited 18 February, 2009 by Clapham Saint

[Saint George]

"Chairman O"?

 

"mega socialist spending package"?

 

It is possible, you know, to make your points without the simplistic labels and sloganeering. They would be more effective, too, in my opinion.

 

Right-wing American opinion does make me laugh. Anything slightly left of the very-right wing has to be either "communistic" or, for those who are not quite that rabid, "socialistic". I don't think they know what socialism is, or how it differs from "democratic socialism".

 

I note that your location is New Orleans. Mostly democrats down there, surely?

 

"Chairman O"?......Because thats exactly how a lot of Americans perceive him.....To a point that an Obama/Pelosi dictatorship has prompted a growing number of States to reafirm the 10th amendment...and their independent sovereignty...just in case http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2187725/posts (scroll down about 15 posts to see the States that have, or are signing up).....Hell, they're already about to make a grab for the media

 

"Mega socialist spending package"?...If the Socialists can try and hide it under the phrase "Stimulus" Then I can call it for exactly what it is, a socialist spending package...And the best part of a trillion$$$ makes it mega in anyones book....Even some in the media are starting to realize http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853....They better watch their selves tho...Chairman O is talking about reducing the broadcast licenses renewal procedure from the current 7 years down to 2...... and his new FCC apointee wants to deny licenses to some broadcasting corporations and issue them to the likes of ACORN instead.....All before the next election....Who said "control the media and you control the people"?........scary stuff

 

Its pretty much Republican down here, on average 70% R - 30% D..... Except for Orleans Parish part of the City, where it's the opposite ...80% D - 20% R....Some wards in Orleans parish turn in around 95% D ......You can tell the Democrat governed area of the city at a glance....highest crime rate, most litter, highest unemployment, largest welfare bills, worse roads (before katrina) and highest property taxes...You'll also see the most amount of overweight and unemployed Democrats sat during the day on their run down porches watching illegal Hispanics fixing up houses across the street.

 

Can you give me one good reason why 'my' tax money should go to paying their rent or mortgages when they won't do a damned thing to help their selves ?

[Jillyanne]

Can people not just be pleased to be alive and walking this planet?

[revolution saint]

In simple terms.....

 

Capitalism is currently the best of the poor range of options which we have.

 

Capitalism and human short term nature together will always result in boom and bust cycle.

 

Government involvement is therefore essential. During boom years governments should be looking to make sure things don't get out of hand. Use high tax revenue to reduce national debt etc.

 

When everything then goes to the s**t they are then in a position to be able to step in and offer support where it is needed.

 

The problem that we currently have is that Gordon Brown is a complete f**king moron and during the boom years anounced that he was a financial genius and that growth would never end ("No more boom and bust" etc).

 

Instead of putting money asside he did exactly the opposite of what he should have done. Instead of the government paying off debt and saving money for the inevitable down turn he mortgaged the country up to the hilt and then when his own "golden rules" limited him from borrowing any more he started PFI in order to hide future debt off balance sheet.

 

Now the down turn has come the cupboard is comepletely bare and he is digging the hole deeper and deeper.

 

I doubt that even he is stupid enough to beleive that the measures he has brought in are going to work but he is ploughing on regardless. As with another delusional "leader "closer to home his "vision" has failed (as it was always going to) but he is refusing to change course regardless of the impact upon the country.

 

I'm lucky in that I work in the insolvency industry but the vast vast majority are going to be very badly hurt by this for a LOT longer than another year (that some people have suggested).

 

Perhaps you're right, maybe Brown should have saved for a rainy day. maybe Blair and brown spent too much on services and infrastructure. The tories would have just given it away to the rich though, they would have privatised industries on massive subsidies. PFI is a Tory idea anyway, and ****e into the bargain. Bottom line, regardless of who got us here is that government spending is the only way out.

 

My own personal view is that it isn't government that got us here - it's the banks and their mindless pursuit of profit. You say capitalism is "the best range of options" and you're probably right. However it's capitalism that leads us to boom and bust not government. Adam Smith's invisible elbow and all that. When we're in recession I'd rather blame the people who drove us to this, not the ones trying to get us out.

[Handyman]

And to all the people who claim the country is ruined etc, where would you like to go and why would life be any better there exactly?

 

Try Zimbabwe! (Tongue firmly in cheek)

[St Landrew]

Can people not just be pleased to be alive and walking this planet?

 

Totaly agree Jillyanne.

 

It seems to be human nature to want something you don't have, and then when you have it, just want the next thing. Result..? Dissatisfaction for 99% of the time.

[Hamilton Saint]

"Chairman O"?......Because thats exactly how a lot of Americans perceive him.....To a point that an Obama/Pelosi dictatorship has prompted a growing number of States to reafirm the 10th amendment...and their independent sovereignty...just in case http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2187725/posts (scroll down about 15 posts to see the States that have, or are signing up).....Hell, they're already about to make a grab for the media

 

"Mega socialist spending package"?...If the Socialists can try and hide it under the phrase "Stimulus" Then I can call it for exactly what it is, a socialist spending package...And the best part of a trillion$$$ makes it mega in anyones book....Even some in the media are starting to realize http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853....They better watch their selves tho...Chairman O is talking about reducing the broadcast licenses renewal procedure from the current 7 years down to 2...... and his new FCC apointee wants to deny licenses to some broadcasting corporations and issue them to the likes of ACORN instead.....All before the next election....Who said "control the media and you control the people"?........scary stuff

 

...

 

?

 

My general point: the right-wing Republican faction (under Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.) that has run the country for the last 8 years has been a disaster. They have left the economy in ruins. And now the Republicans have the gall to try to block the new administration from attempting to fix the problem. If banks and other financial institutions have to be nationalised ("socialism"), it's the fault of the Bush administration. They served the interests primarily of the very rich and powerful. What the Republicans of that stripe really ought to do is slink off in silence for a long while and hide their heads in shame. They had their go and they f*cked up big time.

 

A couple of specific points: Your comments about the media make me smile. The U.S. has a very right-wing biased media. It is nearly all corporately-owned media. We can get all that media up here in Canada - and we can see how outrageous it is. Bill O'Reilly on Fox epitomises the arrogant, bullying, ignorant, self-centred attitude prevalent in that right-wing media. We're lucky enough to have a strong publicly-owned broadcaster here in Canada - it is much more even-handed.

 

And we're used to having Canadian policies, institutions, and media being labelled "communist" and "socialist" by right-wing Americans who know nothing about Canada and don't seem willing to listen to other ways of doing things.

 

And as to your reference to an "Obama/Pelosi dictatorship" - get a grip, man! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Obama was elected to serve four years as President and that voters also gave the Democrats a majority in Congress. That's not dictatorship - that's called the "will of the people".

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

the country is not dead....in a year maybe two at a push 3 it will be much better than what it is today economically..

 

capitalism will prevail....it always does - gladly

 

Yep, I love living in a world where the 'system' only allows for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

[Thedelldays]

Yep, I love living in a world where the 'system' only allows for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

i know

 

when i lived in cuba i had it so much better

[costasaint]

i know

 

when i lived in cuba i had it so much better

 

Have you actually been to Cuba?

I spent 4 weeks travelling all over Cuba and also have been to Tobago and Grenada.What i find strange is apart from maybe 5% of the population, Grenada and Tobago are just as poor as Cuba but you don't hear anyone going on about how crap capitalism is because of it.At least in Cuba they have free health care and education whereas in Tobago and Grenada if you are poor you are ****ed! And no I don't think state capitalism (cuba's system) is very good but capitalsim fails most of the world as well!

[Saint George]

My general point: the right-wing Republican faction (under Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.) that has run the country for the last 8 years has been a disaster. They have left the economy in ruins. And now the Republicans have the gall to try to block the new administration from attempting to fix the problem. If banks and other financial institutions have to be nationalised ("socialism"), it's the fault of the Bush administration. They served the interests primarily of the very rich and powerful. What the Republicans of that stripe really ought to do is slink off in silence for a long while and hide their heads in shame. They had their go and they f*cked up big time.

 

A couple of specific points: Your comments about the media make me smile. The U.S. has a very right-wing biased media. It is nearly all corporately-owned media. We can get all that media up here in Canada - and we can see how outrageous it is. Bill O'Reilly on Fox epitomises the arrogant, bullying, ignorant, self-centred attitude prevalent in that right-wing media. We're lucky enough to have a strong publicly-owned broadcaster here in Canada - it is much more even-handed.

 

And we're used to having Canadian policies, institutions, and media being labelled "communist" and "socialist" by right-wing Americans who know nothing about Canada and don't seem willing to listen to other ways of doing things.

 

And as to your reference to an "Obama/Pelosi dictatorship" - get a grip, man! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Obama was elected to serve four years as President and that voters also gave the Democrats a majority in Congress. That's not dictatorship - that's called the "will of the people".

 

The point is, there is next to 'nothing' in that near trillion $$$ package that will help the economy in any way, If there was it would have received at least 'some' Republican support. In fact many Republicans were trying to get a lot of the Pork removed, like Pelosi’s own $30 Million for the Salt Marsh Harvest Mouse ……How the **** can that be considered a “stimulus”? ......The whole thing is nothing more than the socialist's seizing their opportunity for a power grab and to get high on a spending orgy

 

As for the media, you're just being comical now..Fox may well lean to the right, but The New York Times, ABC, CBS,CNN, MSNBC are now just about as left as you can get ....They were so far up Chairman O’s backside during the election campaign it was laughable....'Two' anchor men on MSNBC had to be removed because they had lost 'ALL' objectivity with Chris Matthews getting a "tingle down his leg" whenever he heard Chairman O speak.....No need to take my word for it ...check out the election coverage stats. Chairman O received a way higher percentage of 'favorable' coverage than McCain...And their attempted character assassination of Palin and her family was nothing short of disgraceful, but sadly something that's come to be expected from the hypocrites on the left

 

As for dictators...History shows that many tyrants were swept to power by the "will of the people", most didn't know what they were letting themselves in for.....Chairman O and Pelosi's ambitions are shaping up to be no different......For their breed of socialism to work, they're either going to have to use strict old Soviet Union style control. Or the UK method of a more gradual building of an ever greater dependency on the Government to look after its citizens, until peeps know no different and are to **** scared to leave Nanny's comfort zone .....I do however, have some faith in the American people to eventually come to their senses and to see just where this current path is going to lead.....Hell, I don’t think any other President has lost so much popularity in his first 4 weeks as this one.......Mind you, Chairman O's eligibility issues have far from gone away...More and more Law suits are hitting the High Court as plaintiffs finally earn the "standing", previously denied.....As we say down here....Laissez les bons temps rouler

 

As for Canada....Well at least it’s a step up From the UK where freedom and liberty is concerned, that’s for sure....I gave some serious thought to moving there myself, but Louisiana is far more my natural habitat.......

[revolution saint]

The point is, there is next to 'nothing' in that near trillion $$$ package that will help the economy in any way, If there was it would have received at least 'some' Republican support. In fact many Republicans were trying to get a lot of the Pork removed, like Pelosi’s own $30 Million for the Salt Marsh Harvest Mouse ……How the **** can that be considered a “stimulus”? ......The whole thing is nothing more than the socialist's seizing their opportunity for a power grab and to get high on a spending orgy

 

As for the media, you're just being comical now..Fox may well lean to the right, but The New York Times, ABC, CBS,CNN, MSNBC are now just about as left as you can get ....They were so far up Chairman O’s backside during the election campaign it was laughable....'Two' anchor men on MSNBC had to be removed because they had lost 'ALL' objectivity with Chris Matthews getting a "tingle down his leg" whenever he heard Chairman O speak.....No need to take my word for it ...check out the election coverage stats. Chairman O received a way higher percentage of 'favorable' coverage than McCain...And their attempted character assassination of Palin and her family was nothing short of disgraceful, but sadly something that's come to be expected from the hypocrites on the left

 

As for dictators...History shows that many tyrants were swept to power by the "will of the people", most didn't know what they were letting themselves in for.....Chairman O and Pelosi's ambitions are shaping up to be no different......For their breed of socialism to work, they're either going to have to use strict old Soviet Union style control. Or the UK method of a more gradual building of an ever greater dependency on the Government to look after its citizens, until peeps know no different and are to **** scared to leave Nanny's comfort zone .....I do however, have some faith in the American people to eventually come to their senses and to see just where this current path is going to lead.....Hell, I don’t think any other President has lost so much popularity in his first 4 weeks as this one.......Mind you, Chairman O's eligibility issues have far from gone away...More and more Law suits are hitting the High Court as plaintiffs finally earn the "standing", previously denied.....As we say down here....Laissez les bons temps rouler

 

As for Canada....Well at least it’s a step up From the UK where freedom and liberty is concerned, that’s for sure....I gave some serious thought to moving there myself, but Louisiana is far more my natural habitat.......

 

Will you please stop referring to Democrats as socialists - they're not. They don't believe in nationalisation, they believe in the market. Maybe they believe in government intervention slightly more than republicans but that does not make them socialists. Frankly it's a bit annoying to proper socialists. We don't even have a socialist labour party over here!

 

As for the dictator thing and , "History shows that many tyrants were swept to power by the "will of the people", most didn't know what they were letting themselves in for.....Chairman O and Pelosi's ambitions are shaping up to be no different" are you really suggesting Obama is a tyrant? Really? Disagree all you like but he was elected democratically, or are you suggesting maybe there's a lot of Americans who don't deserve a vote? I guess given the republican history in subverting democracy this isn't an unfamiliar stance for you.

 

The other thing I'd like to add given your ultra right views is just how ironic it is that the good old US is in hock to what country primarily? What really rich country pretty much owns the US? What country could break the US in a day if it called in it's debts? Must be some bastion of the free market eh? Nope, it's China. Good old commie China! Must make your blood boil! Oh and I'm by no means condoning China, it's human rights or anything to do with them but I do find it ironic.