Is there any hope? Our country is ruined. It is a smeg hole. I am fed up. **** Brown

[1976_Child]

I can see a revolution coming. The country is ****ed. Bankrupt. Adrift. Gordon Brown is a t0sser, DEBT DEBT DEBT DEBT DEBT DEBT DEBT... why not stop and ask the question:

 

If DEBT got us into this mess, how exactly is more DEBT going to get us out of it?

 

Doctor: I am very sorry to say but you have lung cancer.

Patient: Sh!t it is the end of the world!

Doctor: Don't worry, smoke even more and you will be fine!

 

Duhhhhh! How ****ing dumb is this idiot running our country?

 

There is no hope. The world as I have known it all 33 years of my life is about to get very different. And to cap it all, I can't even have a bit of light relief with my football club, cause that is also a train wreck.

 

So, here am I at 33 years old. Well educated, articulate, bright and yet I am having to work harder and harder just to stand still. I live in a ****ing tiny box of a rented flat, crammed into a block with 12 other families, in a ****ing dirty **** hole called Brighton, in one of the most densely populated parts of the country which doesn't even have a functioning parliament anymore - only a puppet parliament bowing down to their European Masters. Where exactly is this Golden Age the new millennium was supposed to bring? ****ed if I know.

 

I have no savings worth speaking of (although I will save £450 next season by refusing to buy a ST), I don't even know what a pension looks like, but the Brighton council has just put up my council tax bill so that they can fund their employees pensions.

 

Politicians are totally corrupt, not asking am I genuinely entitled to this expense claim, but instead asking "is it legal, can i get away with it". ****ing disgust me all of them. Vermin. Parasites. Arrogant swine.

 

In all honesty I would rather I didn't do well in school. If I was a dumb illiterate dole-monkey I would not care. The problem is I have always been led to believe that if you try and better yourself then you can achieve. Not in this ****ing country you can't. **** it. I am going down the pub to watch the egg-chasers. Hope we beat those taffy bastards. Need something to smile about.

 

**** this country. I will always be an Englishman but at the moment I am NOT proud to be one.

Edited 14 February, 2009 by 1976_Child

[Weston Super Saint]

He's gonna be even more ****ed off when he comes home, with the egg chasing score.

[1976_Child]

He's gonna be even more ****ed off when he comes home, with the egg chasing score.

 

even the egg-chasers are crap.

 

I came back from the pub at half time because there was a loud mouthed jerk-off being a knob-head. Nearly ****ing punched his lights out. The state of mind I am in at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if I get nicked before the end of the year.

 

Came home to the **** hole I am forced to call home and watched the Victorian Farm on tele. Now there was a better age. Back-breaking work and lower life expectancy but a frick lot simpler. Not a credit derivative in sight. I reckon on balance they were a happier lot. Not like today's consumerist society. **** Brown.

[Thedelldays]

the country is not dead....in a year maybe two at a push 3 it will be much better than what it is today economically..

 

capitalism will prevail....it always does - gladly

[TopGun]

the country is not dead....in a year maybe two at a push 3 it will be much better than what it is today economically..

 

capitalism will prevail....it always does - gladly

 

I agree it's better than communism. And we do live in a capitalist system no matter how people try and call Labour socialist.

[1976_Child]

the country is not dead....in a year maybe two at a push 3 it will be much better than what it is today economically..

 

capitalism will prevail....it always does - gladly

 

yeah, but real capitalism is when some one first saves up through hard work and thrift (the hard work being making something) and then invests that capital in another project and assuming the risk if it all goes pear shaped.

 

What we have all across the world over the last two decades is DEBT fueled consumerist nonsense. That is no more 'capitalist' than my left nostril. The Victorians knew about capitalism, but they made things. We just consume crap we don't need on credit cards we can't afford to pay off. That is not capitalism. That is pure crazy dumb-rsed nonsense and we are all now monumentally stuffed as a result. Well, not all of us. The t0ssers who got us in this situation in the first place walk away with all their bonuses safely squirreled away.

[Thedelldays]

I agree it's better than communism. And we do live in a capitalist system no matter how people try and call Labour socialist.

yep

 

the system does work..sure it is not perfect and has its problems every now and then (like now) but we all have a god quality of life, pretty much a high level of free speech, have a system where we can make money to pass on to loved ones...

 

the country will be fine in 2 years....things will change and new practices will come in..

 

 

ffs, house prices went up (albeit a very small amount) in january....

[Thedelldays]

yeah, but real capitalism is when some one first saves up through hard work and thrift (the hard work being making something) and then invests that capital in another project and assuming the risk if it all goes pear shaped.

 

What we have all across the world over the last two decades is DEBT fueled consumerist nonsense. That is no more 'capitalist' than my left nostril. The Victorians knew about capitalism, but they made things. We just consume crap we don't need on credit cards we can't afford to pay off. That is not capitalism. That is pure crazy dumb-rsed nonsense and we are all now monumentally stuffed as a result. Well, not all of us. The t0ssers who got us in this situation in the first place walk away with all their bonuses safely squirreled away.

 

 

why dont we need credit cards...?

 

I like to have the choice and use mine if I want...it gives me security to have that in emergencies...and If I want to spend a wad on a holiday I will..

[1976_Child]

yep

 

the system does work..sure it is not perfect and has its problems every now and then (like now) but we all have a god quality of life, pretty much a high level of free speech, have a system where we can make money to pass on to loved ones...

 

the country will be fine in 2 years....things will change and new practices will come in..

 

 

ffs, house prices went up (albeit a very small amount) in january....

 

Daft. This is just like saying "things always stay the same". Do you even have the faintest idea how much DEBT gordon brown is putting on the shoulders of the nation? The system is simply not designed for this event. Some thing will give and almost certainly it will be a run on the pound... meaning everything we import will be a lot more expensive - and we import pretty much everything these days including the bulk of our food and energy.

 

don't make the mistake of thinking Britain is a big player and can ride this storm out. Our economy and public finances are completely wrecked. Totally wrecked. Taxes WILL go up, which will be a break on getting us out of the depression, or public services will be cut. And it will only take our government bonds to be downgraded by Moody's for things to really get nasty. What brown should have done is his ****ing job in the first place and regulated the idiotic greedy ******s in the city. He did not. Now the country is ****ed and somehow he expects me to believe him that it is not of his doing? Bull ****. He is completely responsible.

[Thedelldays]

Daft. This is just like saying "things always stay the same". Do you even have the faintest idea how much DEBT gordon brown is putting on the shoulders of the nation? The system is simply not designed for this event. Some thing will give and almost certainly it will be a run on the pound... meaning everything we import will be a lot more expensive - and we import pretty much everything these days including the bulk of our food and energy.

 

don't make the mistake of thinking Britain is a big player and can ride this storm out. Our economy and public finances are completely wrecked. Totally wrecked. Taxes WILL go up, which will be a break on getting us out of the depression, or public services will be cut. And it will only take our government bonds to be downgraded by Moody's for things to really get nasty. What brown should have done is his ****ing job in the first place and regulated the idiotic greedy ******s in the city. He did not. Now the country is ****ed and somehow he expects me to believe him that it is not of his doing? Bull ****. He is completely responsible.

 

 

ok

 

:roll:

 

sorry to tell you this but we ARE a big player

 

London is the financial hub of the world..we have the 4th/5th largest economy in the world..

 

to have that, something has to have worked...I dunno though

Edited 14 February, 2009 by Thedelldays

[Sheaf Saint]

I was in despair when I watched Golden Brown on the news yesterday trying to distance himself from the whole Lloyds/HBOS affair. It was his govt initiative that recommended the takeover last year and he and Alistair "eyebrowman" Darling were happy to take the credit for a successful deal at the time.

 

I also thought he had the look of a cornered animal when he was being questioned by MPs about the banking crisis, and he just used the age-old politician's trick of not actually answering questions directly and instead started bleating on about how his initiatives to revive the economy are being copied by numerous other countries so they must therefore be correct and fantastic.

 

I have absolutely no faith in the ability of existing shower of ***ts inhabiting whitehall to get us out of this mess. What is even more scary though is that come election time, the good people of this country are probably going to vote in David Cameron on the grounds that he can't possibly be worse then Golden Brown.

 

In the mean time, the industry that I worked in for 8 years and have loads of certificates for is on its knees and it has taken me the best part of 6 months to finally fix myself up with a crap 3-month contract agency job that I don't want to do and pays sh1t money, but it is actually all that is available and it means that, for a while at least, I don't have to visit that skanky sh1thole they call the job centre to sign on.

[1976_Child]

ok

 

:roll:

 

sorry to tell you this but we ARE a big player

 

London is the financial hub of the world..we have the 4th/5th largest economy in the world..

 

to have that, something has to have worked...I dunno though

 

get with the program! The city accounts (or should that be accounted) for fully one fifth - YES, 20% - of national GDP. Sod manufacturing, Sod agriculture. What has been the engine of 'growth' in our economy has been roulette in the city and the derivative of consumer debt based on wacky house prices and the retail spend. Guess what? The city is bankrupt, and will be much more heavily regulated now which ever party is in power and the consumer can no longer use the house as an ATM machine - which is bared out on the highstreet.

 

It doesn't matter a t0ss if we are nominally the 4th/5th largest economy. So what? Have you been to Cleveland in the US recently? Take my word for it, it IS a third world city in the largest economy in the world. The last decade will be known as the age of debt. The next decade will be very different.

[Thedelldays]

either way...

 

in 3 years we will still have..

 

a national health system

benefits for 13 year olds to raise kids

handouts for anyone who wants to come here

able to buy a property and not exclusive the to upper classes

have our own cars

have the choice of a credit card

most of the country will be employed

 

 

the system is not perfect but it is a darn sight better than most in the world

[EastleighSoulBoy]

the country is not dead....in a year maybe two at a push 3 it will be much better than what it is today economically..

 

capitalism will prevail....it always does - gladly

 

Oh! And all this financial meltdown, across the world, isn't actually from capitalist practices then?:roll:

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Oh! And despite all this crap we're going through, I still reckon that this is the best country in the world!

[Gingeletiss]

I agree with 1976............this country has had it. I'd emigrate to Australia, but alas, I'm over 40.......................I've been a blue voter all my life, and when the socialists came into power, I predicted this, as history never lies. The Torys spent most of thei tenure, paying back the debts of the labour goverment...........I'm afraid folks, that very much like our own football club,we are on a runaway train, and the bridge is down.

[Thedelldays]

Oh! And all this financial meltdown, across the world, isn't actually from capitalist practices then?:roll:

it is...the system is far from perfect..but the system we have is far better than most alternatives.

[Draino76]

1976 Child I agree with what you say. I too am absolutely ****ing disgusted with what Labour have done to this country and could also see this mess coming as early as 1997.

 

I too am renting and have been ready to buy a house since 2006. One up month for house prices does not mean 'the bottom' has been called! I'm looking to buy at the end of this year at the earliest.

 

Your £450. Open an account at options direct LTD. No minimum opening amount. Its a UK company and I have been using them for share dealing over a decade.

 

Now go to http://www.proshares.com and learn about exchange traded funds. There are lots of ways you can bet on the market going down, sector by sector. For example, I am holding Ultra short S&P500. When the S&P goes down 3%, this goes up by 9% etc. Sign up to http://www.stocktock.com, its free too. Whoever is interested in making some money should look at this website.

 

HTH

[TheCholulaKid]

1976 Child I agree with what you say. I too am absolutely ****ing disgusted with what Labour have done to this country and could also see this mess coming as early as 1997.

 

I too am renting and have been ready to buy a house since 2006. One up month for house prices does not mean 'the bottom' has been called! I'm looking to buy at the end of this year at the earliest.

 

Your £450. Open an account at options direct LTD. No minimum opening amount. Its a UK company and I have been using them for share dealing over a decade.

 

Now go to http://www.proshares.com and learn about exchange traded funds. There are lots of ways you can bet on the market going down, sector by sector. For example, I am holding Ultra short S&P500. When the S&P goes down 3%, this goes up by 9% etc. Sign up to http://www.stocktock.com, its free too. Whoever is interested in making some money should look at this website.

 

HTH

 

Oh, the irony. It's not Labour's fault, in the same way they shouldn't have been taking the credit (no pun intended) when the economy was looking all rosy. It's called boom and bust - it would have happened anyway regardless of the government.

 

Blame the greedy ****ers all over the country who want everything now, now, now. The same greedy ****ers who want the big TV, the decent motor and the nice (sometimes second) home. In fact, the same greedy ****ers who speculate on the market to make an easy buck.

[revolution saint]

Daft. This is just like saying "things always stay the same". Do you even have the faintest idea how much DEBT gordon brown is putting on the shoulders of the nation? The system is simply not designed for this event. Some thing will give and almost certainly it will be a run on the pound... meaning everything we import will be a lot more expensive - and we import pretty much everything these days including the bulk of our food and energy.

 

don't make the mistake of thinking Britain is a big player and can ride this storm out. Our economy and public finances are completely wrecked. Totally wrecked. Taxes WILL go up, which will be a break on getting us out of the depression, or public services will be cut. And it will only take our government bonds to be downgraded by Moody's for things to really get nasty. What brown should have done is his ****ing job in the first place and regulated the idiotic greedy ******s in the city. He did not. Now the country is ****ed and somehow he expects me to believe him that it is not of his doing? Bull ****. He is completely responsible.

 

This may seem strange but I agree with a lot of this. The banks should have been regulated a lot better than they were. However, that tighter regulation would have had to occur when banks were posting record profits. Can you imagine the outcry if government intervention happened at a time of rising (apparent) prosperity? It's the fault of the banks (and us) that have believed an economy based on debt could carry on forever.

 

I don't think there was much of an alternative when the banks started to fail though. Let one bank fail and the rest would topple like dominos. Millions would have lost their homes and their savings. I don't think there was much choice in the matter - the government had to bail out the banks to prevent meltdown.

 

There's a delicious irony here that when unfettered capitalism produces results then it's because of entrepreneurs and the private sector, when it fails then it's the fault of the state.

[Baj]

Capitalism does not work. Where there is rich, there must be poor. Where there are affluent countries, there will always be bankrupt, where there are the greedy, there will also be the malnourished.

 

Capitalism is the uneven distribution of wealth without thought or conscience for those suffering. Humanity will only produce a fair society for all of the planets inhabitants once capitalism is abolished.

[doublesaint]

1976 Child I agree with what you say. I too am absolutely ****ing disgusted with what Labour have done to this country and could also see this mess coming as early as 1997.

 

 

HTH

 

With such clairvoyant skills you should surely have been able to play the stock market to your advantage and make a fair amount of money? It is practices such as short selling which have contributed to this situation, also do you ever consider the impact to the country as a whole rather than your own pocket when making such deals? But hey lets make some money while we can, and never mind the bigger picture.

[revolution saint]

Capitalism does not work. Where there is rich, there must be poor. Where there are affluent countries, there will always be bankrupt, where there are the greedy, there will also be the malnourished.

 

Capitalism is the uneven distribution of wealth without thought or conscience for those suffering. Humanity will only produce a fair society for all of the planets inhabitants once capitalism is abolished.

 

With such clairvoyant skills you should surely have been able to play the stock market to your advantage and make a fair amount of money? It is practices such as short selling which have contributed to this situation, also do you ever consider the impact to the country as a whole rather than your own pocket when making such deals? But hey lets make some money while we can, and never mind the bigger picture.

 

You're both missing the point - it's the fault of the state when this kind of bet goes wrong. Clearly it has to be. If it's labour in power then all the better - we can blame the damn socialists for our stupidity. We hate the nanny state....we blame the nanny state when we screw up......that's the rules isn't it?

[Baj]

You're both missing the point - it's the fault of the state when this kind of bet goes wrong. Clearly it has to be. If it's labour in power then all the better - we can blame the damn socialists for our stupidity. We hate the nanny state....we blame the nanny state when we screw up......that's the rules isn't it?

 

I'm not missing any point, RS, I'm making a general comment without taking part in the debate.

[Thedelldays]

Capitalism does not work. Where there is rich, there must be poor. Where there are affluent countries, there will always be bankrupt, where there are the greedy, there will also be the malnourished.

 

Capitalism is the uneven distribution of wealth without thought or conscience for those suffering. Humanity will only produce a fair society for all of the planets inhabitants once capitalism is abolished.

of course it works baj..

 

try going to down town cuba or N. Korea and be able to put up all your satelite dishes or buy all your gadgets or talk freely on the internet..

 

do you own your own property, car, go on holiday..?

 

sure the system is far from perfect and every now and then it goes wrong, re-adjusts and moves on...

 

give me that than the alternative - communism

 

or, how about a dictatorship Iranian styleeeeee..?

[revolution saint]

I'm not missing any point, RS, I'm making a general comment without taking part in the debate.

 

It was a throwaway "ironic" comment not aimed at anyone. Anyway unsuprisingly, I agree with you.

 

As an aside though is it possible to make a comment and then not be part of the debate?

[doublesaint]

A solution to the banking crisis could be to adopt Islamic Sharia banking laws, there has been an increase in recent applications to banks who operate this sysytem from people who are not Muslims.

[St Landrew]

Capitalism does not work. Where there is rich, there must be poor. Where there are affluent countries, there will always be bankrupt, where there are the greedy, there will also be the malnourished.

 

Capitalism is the uneven distribution of wealth without thought or conscience for those suffering. Humanity will only produce a fair society for all of the planets inhabitants once capitalism is abolished.

 

Here here.!

[Johnny Bognor]

Capitalism does not work. Where there is rich, there must be poor. Where there are affluent countries, there will always be bankrupt, where there are the greedy, there will also be the malnourished.

 

Capitalism is the uneven distribution of wealth without thought or conscience for those suffering. Humanity will only produce a fair society for all of the planets inhabitants once capitalism is abolished.

 

 

Communism or socialism does not work (as human nature prevents it from doing so). Everyone gets an "equal" slice of the pie (and some more equal than others in any example of socilaist regimes of the current times and past - which is not that different to capitalism) and those with an entrepreneurial spirit or those who are harder working reduce their output - why should they work harder than someone else for the same - is that fair? - the net result is the pie gets smaller and smaller and smaller until there is no pie left.

 

Therefore if you want to have wealth that can be distributed, then you need capitalism to create it.

 

The standard of living of those in capitalist countries tends to fair better than those within communist and socialist regimes - despite 'unfair' distribution.

 

People moan about the rich having money, but they don't just lock it up in a safe somewhere. That money is spent or invested, thus creating jobs and wealth elsewhere - it's a kind of natural distribution. Every other species on earth evolves on the basis of the survival of the fittest - you don't see Lions sharing their kill with another unfortunate lion who couldn't be arsed to hunt for himself.

Edited 15 February, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[doublesaint]

And to all the people who claim the country is ruined etc, where would you like to go and why would life be any better there exactly?

[Jillyanne]

And to all the people who claim the country is ruined etc, where would you like to go and why would life be any better there exactly?

 

Spain, its sunnier and the beaches are better.

[revolution saint]

Communism or socialism does not work. Everyone gets an "equal" slice of the pie (and some more equal than others in any example of socilaist regimes of the current times and past - which is not that different to capitalism) and those with an entrepreneurial spirit or those who are harder working reduce their output - why should they work harder than someone else for the same - the net result is the cake gets smaller and smaller and smaller until there is no cake left.

 

Therefore if you want to have wealth that can be distributed, then you need capitalism to create it.

 

The standard of living of those in capitalist countries tends to fair better than those within communist and socialist regimes.

 

I don't see your point that capitalism is essential to distribution of wealth. In fact capitalism is all about consolidating wealth in the hands of the priviledged minority.

 

Capitalism is about exploitation. Exploitation of the workers, exploitation of the consumer.

 

Goods should be priced by what they cost to produce and and not what people are prepared to pay.

[doublesaint]

Communism or socialism does not work (as human nature prevents it from doing so). Everyone gets an "equal" slice of the pie (and some more equal than others in any example of socilaist regimes of the current times and past - which is not that different to capitalism) and those with an entrepreneurial spirit or those who are harder working reduce their output - why should they work harder than someone else for the same - is that fair? - the net result is the pie gets smaller and smaller and smaller until there is no pie left.

 

Therefore if you want to have wealth that can be distributed, then you need capitalism to create it.

 

The standard of living of those in capitalist countries tends to fair better than those within communist and socialist regimes - despite 'unfair' distribution.

 

People moan about the rich having money, but they don't just lock it up in a safe somewhere. That money is spent or invested, thus creating jobs and wealth elsewhere - it's a kind of natural distribution.

 

The problem with rich people is that some do actually 'lock it up in a safe' in many respects, either by tax avoidance which is just as criminal if not more so than benefit scams, or merely by hoarding wealth. While agreeing that communism is not a practical political theory to adopt, it may well serve the country for the 'rich people' to put into practice what the Cadbury family did with what their fortune created....

 

Despite the demands of running a large company, George Cadbury was committed to spending time helping those less privileged than himself. Cadbury often said: "We can do nothing of any value to God, except in acts of genuine helpfulness done to our fellow men.". At first Cadbury built 24 houses for their key workers at Bournville. Later Cadbury built another 300 houses to form Bournville Village. These houses were superior to working class homes of that time, with larger rooms and generous sized gardens. Another innovation was to group the houses around cul-de-sacs or gardens. A school, hospital, reading rooms and wash-houses were also built for the people in the village.

Cadbury Brothers already had a reputation as a good employer, having introduced Saturday half days and Bank Holiday closing. At Bournville Cadbury introduced a wide variety of sporting and recreational facilities. There was a kitchen for heating up food and later a works canteen was added. The company also provided medical and dental treatment.

 

 

[doublesaint]

Spain, its sunnier and the beaches are better.

 

Then can you explain why you would not even contemplate going to Spain on holiday????

[Baj]

People moan about the rich having money, but they don't just lock it up in a safe somewhere. That money is spent or invested, thus creating jobs and wealth elsewhere - it's a kind of natural distribution. Every other species on earth evolves on the basis of the survival of the fittest - you don't see Lions sharing their kill with another unfortunate lion who couldn't be arsed to hunt for himself.

 

Utter hogwash. You are seriously trying to tell me that multimillionaires redistribute all of their wealth? And on your second point, I would like to think we are intelligent enough not to compare our social system to that of lions.

 

And the problem with even suggesting a system where money is abolished is that people already have a stigma with the alternative methods, socialism/communism. Neither of these systems are truly free of monetary influence, since every country who runs an economic system opposed to capitalism must deal with other capitalist states. One country cannot change alone, the system must change globally, in one move.

 

And I'm not talking about each man working to contribute to the state in the commonly thought sense of socialism, we have the technology within us now to eliminate the need for vast swathes of the work we do, leaving us to concentrate on advancing our civilization as a whole, rather than working for 'the man'. When salary and commitment to meeting bills is removed, our concentration will soon move to expanding our understanding of the planet, ourselves, and the universe we live in. As a planet we have the capacity to solve all of todays wars, poverty and food shortages by re-applying our efforts. We simply cannot advance as a species, with the promise that we have, whilst we are in the grip of capitalism.

 

Pie in the sky dream, maybe, but it starts with a few realising that what we have doesn't work.

[revolution saint]

Utter hogwash. You are seriously trying to tell me that multimillionaires redistribute all of their wealth? And on your second point, I would like to think we are intelligent enough not to compare our social system to that of lions.

 

And the problem with even suggesting a system where money is abolished is that people already have a stigma with the alternative methods, socialism/communism. Neither of these systems are truly free of monetary influence, since every country who runs an economic system opposed to capitalism must deal with other capitalist states. One country cannot change alone, the system must change globally, in one move.

 

And I'm not talking about each man working to contribute to the state in the commonly thought sense of socialism, we have the technology within us now to eliminate the need for vast swathes of the work we do, leaving us to concentrate on advancing our civilization as a whole, rather than working for 'the man'. When salary and commitment to meeting bills is removed, our concentration will soon move to expanding our understanding of the planet, ourselves, and the universe we live in. As a planet we have the capacity to solve all of todays wars, poverty and food shortages by re-applying our efforts. We simply cannot advance as a species, with the promise that we have, whilst we are in the grip of capitalism.

 

Pie in the sky dream, maybe, but it starts with a few realising that what we have doesn't work.

 

"Imagine all the people, livin' life in peace you whooooo, you may say I'm a dreamer...."

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. For what it's worth, I agree.

[Draino76]

Oh, the irony. It's not Labour's fault, in the same way they shouldn't have been taking the credit (no pun intended) when the economy was looking all rosy. It's called boom and bust - it would have happened anyway regardless of the government.

 

Blame the greedy ****ers all over the country who want everything now, now, now. The same greedy ****ers who want the big TV, the decent motor and the nice (sometimes second) home. In fact, the same greedy ****ers who speculate on the market to make an easy buck.

 

It is Labours fault because they are making the situation worse. They are trying to reinflate the credit/spending bubble by borrowing and spending. Our children and grand children are going to pay for this ridiculous spending in the form of higher taxes.

 

You're right on the now, now now culture, this was encouraged by our favourite one eyed Scottish idiot.

 

I also don't have a credit card so I'm not part of the problem. I trade the markets its not an easy buck, but the profits are my cash and I don't have to borrow from anyone.

[Draino76]

With such clairvoyant skills you should surely have been able to play the stock market to your advantage and make a fair amount of money? It is practices such as short selling which have contributed to this situation, also do you ever consider the impact to the country as a whole rather than your own pocket when making such deals? But hey lets make some money while we can, and never mind the bigger picture.

 

Yes I have. Short selling just adds liquidity to the market. A recent ban on short selling actully made the US markets drop to 7 year lows.

[doublesaint]

I also don't have a credit card so I'm not part of the problem. I trade the markets its not an easy buck, but the profits are my cash and I don't have to borrow from anyone.

 

You trade the markets and are contributing in however small a way to the problem.

[Thedelldays]

draino

 

is the stockmarket thing easy to do...can any old mug get involved in the sites you mention or do you have to be clued up..?

[1976_Child]

draino

 

is the stockmarket thing easy to do...can any old mug get involved in the sites you mention or do you have to be clued up..?

 

No one should 'trade' the markets. That is the problem. When I used to work in the City I remember there were offices setup down the street enticing anyone to rent a desk and start speculating as if they were professionals. This more than anything optimized the casino culture. People with no training, maxing out the credit card to sit in front of a screen with a chart going up and down and taking short-term positions which could be as short as ten minutes or less. This is not investing. This is not capitalism. This is gambling, pure and simple. Go to the casino and have more fun.

[Thedelldays]

No one should 'trade' the markets. That is the problem. When I used to work in the City I remember there were offices setup down the street enticing anyone to rent a desk and start speculating as if they were professionals. This more than anything optimized the casino culture. People with no training, maxing out the credit card to sit in front of a screen with a chart going up and down and taking short-term positions which could be as short as ten minutes or less. This is not investing. This is not capitalism. This is gambling, pure and simple. Go to the casino and have more fun.

why...I would like the choice...

 

if I want to gamble then I will...this country offers more than most..by all means it is not perfect but it offer a better quality of life than most..even today in the middle of a credit cruch/depression...it STILL offers money to anyone who wants to come...will pay for 13 year old dads to raise his kids..will give us all basic health care and will gove most more than basic health care..

 

we are able to buy our own property as an ordinary man, own our own cars, go on holiday to where ever the **** we want, raise as many kids as we want (as the tax credits allow us to)..

 

give me a ****ed up capiltalist UK over a prosperous socialist/communist/distorship state any day of the week

 

i am in the navy and work on submarines, hold the rank of leading hand (same as a corporal) I earn good money, own my own flat and have my own car, go on holiday every year (leave dates depending) and have a good standard of living..

 

lets compare that to an opposite number in say the Iranian submarine service...???

Edited 15 February, 2009 by Thedelldays

[OldNick]

The authorities never stopped the obvious disaster of overborrowing and the masses also borrowed more than they could afford.I suggest 70-80% of the population joined into the party and now have a hangover we all can share in.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

With such clairvoyant skills you should surely have been able to play the stock market to your advantage and make a fair amount of money? It is practices such as short selling which have contributed to this situation, also do you ever consider the impact to the country as a whole rather than your own pocket when making such deals? But hey lets make some money while we can, and never mind the bigger picture.

 

I agree, but you wasted a lot of words in summimg up. The whole ethos is better described as 'Feck you Jack, I'm alright'

[doublesaint]

why...I would like the choice...

 

if I want to gamble then I will...this country offers more than most..by all means it is not perfect but it offer a better quality of life than most..even today in the middle of a credit cruch/depression...it STILL offers money to anyone who wants to come...will pay for 13 year old dads to raise his kids..will give us all basic health care and will gove most more than basic health care..

 

we are able to buy our own property as an ordinary man, own our own cars, go on holiday to where ever the **** we want, raise as many kids as we want (as the tax credits allow us to)..

 

give me a ****ed up capiltalist UK over a prosperous socialist/communist/distorship state any day of the week

 

i am in the navy and work on submarines, hold the rank of leading hand (same as a corporal) I earn good money, own my own flat and have my own car, go on holiday every year (leave dates depending) and have a good standard of living..

 

lets compare that to an opposite number in say the Iranian submarine service...???

 

Why go to the extreme of comparing your life to someone from an Islamic fundamentalist country, it is like a comparison between Southampton and Barcelona in football terms? Maybe a comparison to someone who lives in Norway for example and enjoys the benefits of a well funded welfare state? Oh but then again Norway is such a stupid idea, after all they don't have those lovely expensive nuclear submarines to maintain.......

[Thedelldays]

Why go to the extreme of comparing your life to someone from an Islamic fundamentalist country, it is like a comparison between Southampton and Barcelona in football terms? Maybe a comparison to someone who lives in Norway for example and enjoys the benefits of a well funded welfare state? Oh but then again Norway is such a stupid idea, after all they don't have those lovely expensive nuclear submarines to maintain.......

 

 

ok...

 

lets compare our relative lives to that of those who DONT live in a capitalist country...that was the point I was trying to make...

 

I bet, in general the lives of ordinary everyday people are better here than not..

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It is Labours fault because they are making the situation worse. They are trying to reinflate the credit/spending bubble by borrowing and spending. Our children and grand children are going to pay for this ridiculous spending in the form of higher taxes.

 

You're right on the now, now now culture, this was encouraged by our favourite one eyed Scottish idiot.

 

I also don't have a credit card so I'm not part of the problem. I trade the markets its not an easy buck, but the profits are my cash and I don't have to borrow from anyone.

 

And there is the irony, a culture spawned by Baroness Barmy (The Finchley B.itch) is now being encouraged by the leader of the political party which was once totally opposite to hers. That same party wildly realigned it's policies to become electable. Which party did they come closer to? The Tories! So really it's just another type of Tory party which has caused all this grief.

 

Of course it's not really down to any political party is it? It's a worldwide condition and the only common denominator to it all is the money market. The money market and the people within it who made money by over estimating things in an effort to secure even larger bonuses. Well, all good things come to an end, some more spectacularly than others.

 

This is one of them.

[OldNick]

 

Of course it's not really down to any political party is it? It's a worldwide condition and the only common denominator to it all is the money market. The money market and the people within it who made money by over estimating things in an effort to secure even larger bonuses. Well, all good things come to an end, some more spectacularly than others.

 

.

That is just how the government wish you to believe.

When they came to power they took away the powers of the Bank of England to regulate and left the power to the bankers boys club FSA. they of course couldnt give a toss, and the bankers at the top took a once in a lifetime opportunity to make more money than you can dream of and so their famillies are financially secure for ever. During this time the government went on a spending spree on health and education and wars.the money the city was 'earning' was bringing in taxation that the chancellor loved spending.it then got to a stage where he couldnt reign it in as he was embroiled in the spend spend phiosophy.Blair saw the writing on the wall and has walked away smelling of roses when he was overseeing it as well.

I and others were questioning how houses could go u 15-20% a year when wages were only going up 2-3%. So much so I sold my house 4 years ago and downsized and put the difference away to protect the gain.

Any school kid would think it odd that people could lend 125% to somebody.i f they cant pay a deposit of 1% how will they ever pay 125%. It was madness and the government should have done something eve n as late as the day Northern Rock fell.

[Ponty]

Hang on, back up a bit... I want to hear about Iranian submarines. That sounds far more interesting.

[Thedelldays]

Hang on, back up a bit... I want to hear about Iranian submarines. That sounds far more interesting.

they have 3...ex kilo class russian subs..diesel electric SSK types...are small but quick and agile, and quiet when running on the batteries

 

one named Tareq one named Yunes and cant remeber the third name

 

they run out of bander abbas or char bahar (sp) ports and operate in the NAG/Babel mendeb staits