everyone has accepted we are in league one next season

[OldNick]

Be prepared to change your mind then.

Have all your other 5 posts been as positve?

[saintstr1]

some other clubs in this division are actually in much worse debt than Saints!

 

But will still be in the CCC next season!

[lordswoodsaints]

you have only just accepted it?

 

as a club we dont deserve to be in this league and we wont be come the end of the season.......i hope that i choke to death on my words but i cant see it.

i accepted that we were down after the doncaster game and i havnt seen anything so far to change my mind,imo we need 20 points from 15 games and for the life of me i cant see where those points are going to come from.

 

i hope to god that i am wrong but im not a religous man so i doubt he gives a fvck what i hope for.

[Dalek2003]

Sorry Micky but the fans are the life blood of the club they are not responsible for the actions of the board's (note I say boards). I have in the past pay'ed my money through several season tickets & pay on the day before I moved up north for family reasons, I continue to suport the club from a distance Buying shirts/merchandise. Now maybe you can blame me for moving away from the area (18 years ago) But the ultimate responsability for the state we find ourselves in, Is NOT down to the fans, its wholey down to the Board/boards decisions in the recent past.

I still feel total disheartened by what I see happening at what was once a great example of a family club disintegrating before our eyes, and its easy to blame individuals, but these individuals have been let run riot by other board members. I just don't see other than the Glen Hoddle Incident (which I happend to agree with at the time WRONGLY so as time has proved IMHO) where the fans can be made culpable. Again that is a board decision & if the Board believed Hoddle was right and they bowed to popularism then they made the wrong decision again. That is what you get at the top as a chairman you get to make the desision's if they prove right then your a hero get them wrong you get a second chance Maybe, Don't learn from the mistake's & make bigger one's then expext a bit of flak.

 

 

I appreciate your honesty ie over the Glenn Hoddle incident. Ironically, one of the reasons given for not appointing GH was that it would split the fan base. IMO it would NOT have split the fanbase but it would have upset a vocal minority. In a reaasonably short time this would have faded away.

[egreog]

As a realist......relegation is a highly likely outcome for a rudderless, passionless bunch of non performers.........the mention of Saints going on any sort of "run" is laughable........unless of course you mean a run of totally inept defeats!!

 

Winning "runs" and Saints are never whispered in the same breath! It just NEVER happens!!

[Lets B Avenue]

Have all your other 5 posts been as positve?

 

My positive outlook evaporated the minute Lowe rode back in. I have marvelled at your constant "1/2 glass full" attitude since. I salute you but cannot agree with it.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

I find that giving up helps psychologically come 5:00pm on a Saturday.

[Topcat]

The price will rise with inflation.

 

 

If we have to discuss a lower league quality of football it follows we should pay less for it.

 

How about half?

[um pahars]

I find that giving up helps psychologically come 5:00pm on a Saturday.

 

There is an element of truth in that one, but I also honestly think we should be able to get points out of most games in this division as the quality of opposition isn't that good (but that does say something about us as well!!!), so I'm normally optimistic.

[St Paul]

Did Woolworths or MFI bosses blame the customers?

 

The buck stops with the man at the top, not the supporters. We don't pick the Manager or the players. We didn't loan out or sell our best players.

 

This time next year when we're stuck in mid table of league 1, will it still be our fault?

[Wade Garrett]

Wade if we go down and the chairman is gone would you contemplate coming back? Or is it down to the division we are playing as well.It is not a trick question

 

If Lowe and Wilde went I would come back regardless of what division we were in.

 

I feel disenfranchised nick. I don't recognise the club anymore.

[um pahars]

This time next year when we're stuck in mid table of league 1, will it still be our fault?

 

Sadly, according to some it will indeed still be our fault!!!

 

The mind boggles with regards their logic.:rolleyes:

[Viking Warrior]

I believe we can stay up. I don't give in that easily

[OldNick]

If Lowe and Wilde went I would come back regardless of what division we were in.

 

I feel disenfranchised nick. I don't recognise the club anymore.

Good I will welcome your return.Although I still hope it will be a year or so as i want us to stay up and ominously if we stay up RL will still be here

[BadgerBadger]

In-fighting amongst the fans is one of many causes of it. IMHO a large number of our fans have forgotten we support the same team.

 

This is always the main reason team get relegated

[Professor]

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Surely bad management must come at the top of the list?

Some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-Lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-Redknapp chants and anti-SCW moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame Lowe, or Wilde, or the Managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is LUCK. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is Luck.

[aintforever]

some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-redknapp chants and anti-scw moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame lowe, or wilde, or the managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is luck. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is luck.

 

lol

[SaintRobbie]

Some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-Lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-Redknapp chants and anti-SCW moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame Lowe, or Wilde, or the Managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is LUCK. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is Luck.

 

Again Prof, I think you're talking outside of reality. You make your own luck in life and especially in competitive sport. This has nothing to do with the fans and even if it did, the reality is that the fans have had enough.

 

Luck has nothing to do with our league position. Our position has everything to do with inept policy-making at Chairman level, poor players and bad leadership.

[um pahars]

Some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-Lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-Redknapp chants and anti-SCW moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame Lowe, or Wilde, or the Managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is LUCK. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is Luck.

 

As the Beetles once sang:

 

"All you need is luck":rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

I've got one word for you Professor:

 

You're talking out of your sr5e again, now run along.

[Ponty]

That's 11 words (10 if you accept "you're" as 1 word and only 9 if you accept that "sr5e" is not a word at all).

[VectisSaint]

In-fighting amongst the fans is one of many causes of it. IMHO a large number of our fans have forgotten we support the same team.

Amongst the other reasons would be the moon being made of blue cheese I suppose.

 

How on earth (or on the moon) can anyone rationally come to such a conclusion?

[um pahars]

That's 11 words (10 if you accept "you're" as 1 word and only 9 if you accept that "sr5e" is not a word at all).

 

Irony is obviously lost on you:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

I've got but one word for you:

 

Go and have a look at TT's posts before you gob off and make yourself look even more of a fool than most of us already take you for.

 

HTH

[Arizona]

All the pundits on Soccer Saturday just said we're going down. Can't really argue with anything they said.

[St Paul]

All the pundits on Soccer Saturday just said we're going down. Can't really argue with anything they said.

Did they blame the supporters?

[Ponty]

Irony is obviously lost on you:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

I've got but one word for you:

 

Go and have a look at TT's posts before you gob off and make yourself look even more of a fool than most of us already take you for.

 

HTH

Be my Valentine.

[Arizona]

Did they blame the supporters?

 

Surprisingly not. MLT and Thomson both mentioned mismanagement at the top levels as the main reason for our plight.

 

I think Thomson is a moaning git most of the time, but he is generally spot on when talking about Saints.

[um pahars]

Be my Valentine.

 

A Valentine's Day massacre would be more appropriate.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Sadly, according to some it will indeed still be our fault!!!

 

The mind boggles with regards their logic.:rolleyes:

 

When we are struggling with mid-table in league 1, we will get blamed as attendances plummet further.

 

We are easy targets..

[Channon's Sideburns]

Some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-Lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-Redknapp chants and anti-SCW moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame Lowe, or Wilde, or the Managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is LUCK. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is Luck.

 

Christ..do you still get paid to write this sh1te???

[1976_Child]

The price will rise with inflation.

 

Great. So when Gordon "I've saved the world" Brown tells the Bank of England to turn on the printing presses as a last resort to the depression we can look forward to Argentinian levels of inflation and a forum fee of £12,495,882.38p per day.

 

Can't wait.

[St. Jason]

In-fighting amongst the fans is one of many causes of it. IMHO a large number of our fans have forgotten we support the same team.

 

Are you seriously saying its us, the fans fault we are going down??

 

It hasn't got anything to do with Lowe, Wilde, Jan, Wotte or the players? So what your saying is that as paying customers who are paying full price to watch a team we could seen for nothing last year its our fault, unreal!

 

Note- I've only seen in fighting at 1 game which was after we'd just been beat by Doncaster, thats right ******* DONCASTER! the other 16 games the fans have been right behind the team, still only 1 win though!

[St Paul]

I must hold my hands up and say sorry if we're relegated. I did moan and complain following our loss against Doncaster. Mistakes like getting rid of Pearson, employing Jan and Wotte, loaning/selling older players, buying rubbish like Pulis are nothing compared to the fatal error I made.

[um pahars]

I must hold my hands up and say sorry if we're relegated. I did moan and complain following our loss against Doncaster. Mistakes like getting rid of Pearson, employing Jan and Wotte, loaning/selling older players, buying rubbish like Pulis are nothing compared to the fatal error I made.

 

And I'm as guilty as you are my friend.

 

Like you, I gave the team all my support at every match I have been to this season, cheering them on and singing at every opportunity.

 

However, for about 15 mins towards the end of that Doncaster game, my support was diverted away from supporting to the team, and towards having a pop at those in charge.

 

If we go down, it is obviously down to people like you and I.:rolleyes:

[Snowballs2]

Some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-Lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-Redknapp chants and anti-SCW moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame Lowe, or Wilde, or the Managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is LUCK. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is Luck.

 

 

I think you should be publically flogged on the steps of the Civic Centre

[Alain Perrin]

Are you seriously saying its us, the fans fault we are going down??

 

It hasn't got anything to do with Lowe, Wilde, Jan, Wotte or the players? So what your saying is that as paying customers who are paying full price to watch a team we could seen for nothing last year its our fault, unreal!

 

Note- I've only seen in fighting at 1 game which was after we'd just been beat by Doncaster, thats right ******* DONCASTER! the other 16 games the fans have been right behind the team, still only 1 win though!

 

Are you seriously saying that you haven't read my post, or subsequent posts?

 

Of course it has got something (a lot to do with Lowe, Wilde, Jan, Wotte, the players and [insert many other names here]). I said ONE of MANY.

 

Compare our club with say Man City when they went down, superficially at least they maintained an appearance of unity. We've spent the entire time bickering, from the terrace to the boardroom.

 

Agree the support at home and away this year has been great, but there is, and has been, an undercurrent of discontent ever present since the back-end of our relegation season. For many fans it probably makes no difference, they just want the team to win - but some were waiting for it to fail to say "I told you so" or the old favourite "Lowe out".

 

My point is that the blame culture doesn't help anyone. Are you seriously saying that support matters for nothing? If so, why bother going?

[Alain Perrin]

And I'm as guilty as you are my friend.

 

Like you, I gave the team all my support at every match I have been to this season, cheering them on and singing at every opportunity.

 

However, for about 15 mins towards the end of that Doncaster game, my support was diverted away from supporting to the team, and towards having a pop at those in charge.

 

If we go down, it is obviously down to people like you and I.:rolleyes:

 

I've no doubt you did Um, but you've also been front and centre of the off pitch agitation through this board. You're like a mullah inciting suicide bombers.

 

And part of it is fanaticism. Seeing only one side of the story, picking the pieces out of a post and using it to support your jihad.

 

For example above, someone made a comment about luck having a part to play. Ok they may have over egged the role, but clearly luck has had a part to play. But to accept that luck has had a part to play doesn't fit into the mantra that Lowe is all evil.

 

I'm not asking for people not to blame Lowe, clearly he is culpable, very culpable. I just think we ought to accept there are other factors at play too, fan negativity and luck are both in that long list.

[um pahars]

I've no doubt you did Um, but you've also been front and centre of the off pitch agitation through this board. You're like a mullah inciting suicide bombers.

 

And part of it is fanaticism. Seeing only one side of the story, picking the pieces out of a post and using it to support your jihad.

 

For example above, someone made a comment about luck having a part to play. Ok they may have over egged the role, but clearly luck has had a part to play. But to accept that luck has had a part to play doesn't fit into the mantra that Lowe is all evil.

 

I'm not asking for people not to blame Lowe, clearly he is culpable, very culpable. I just think we ought to accept there are other factors at play too, fan negativity and luck are both in that long list.

 

Seriously Alain, you've lost it with this post:smt048:smt048:smt048

 

Go and have a lie down;)

[glkdcdes]

There is no debate as to whether we are going down this season as Lowe not doing the decent thing and getting lost about 4 games ago along with appointing his Dutch masters at the start of the season has stopped any chance of recovering.

The debate now in my mind is more about next season and let me state that with Lowe we will end up in the lower half of the table and possibly relegated again.

If Lowe can be binned one way or another then we will end up in the top half of the table, with the same chance of promotion as of being relegated with Lowe.

 

At least we can get used to the devestation of relegation allready as its the hope that kills you. So i can think of something to thank Lowe for, killing hope. There you go Lowe. My legacy.... i killed all hope.

[Alain Perrin]

Seriously Alain, you've lost it with this post:smt048:smt048:smt048

 

Go and have a lie down;)

 

I'm glad you recognise an over reaction, perhaps I was wrong, maybe you are more of a Richard Reid than a Osama Bin Laden

 

You can't seriously say that you believe:

- Luck has had NOTHING to do with our situation?

- Fan support has nothing to do with results?

 

... or do you bomber boy?

[Whitey Grandad]

Some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-Lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-Redknapp chants and anti-SCW moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame Lowe, or Wilde, or the Managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is LUCK. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is Luck.

I've heard some feeble excuses in my time but now I've heard it all. If you think that we have been unlucky this season then you must have been watching a different team. The only bad luck that we supporters have had is to be the poor recipients of the crass and bizarre decisions of a deluded chairman.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm glad you recognise an over reaction, perhaps I was wrong, maybe you are more of a Richard Reid than a Osama Bin Laden

 

You can't seriously say that you believe:

- Luck has had NOTHING to do with our situation?

- Fan support has nothing to do with results?

 

... or do you bomber boy?

The answers are 'yes' and 'bugger all' in that order.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Bloody supporters have cost us another 3 points again...........

[70's Mike]

Some fans have been part of the trouble for along time, by creating a negative atmosphere in which the team have to play. In the relegation season, the team did not play better with anti-Lowe demonstrations, and in the following year they were not motivated by anti-Redknapp chants and anti-SCW moans, but neither were they to blame. In fact, blame is pointless, despite people here who want to blame Lowe, or Wilde, or the Managers. The fact is that if all 24 clubs in this league had brilliant managers, 3 of them would still be relegated,k because the greatest factor of all is LUCK. Not just luck in matches, but luck in whether signings turn out to be good, luck if young players improve, luck if key players avoid injury. So top of my list is Luck.

 

factually wrong again

[Whitey Grandad]

Bloody supporters have cost us another 3 points again...........

Good point! Perhaps we should all stop supporting.

[Legod Third Coming]

Guys,

 

You have to accept we are down, grieve accordingly and then just look forward.

It is too panful otherwise.

 

Just accept we have a local derby against Brighton to look forward to.

[um pahars]

I'm glad you recognise an over reaction, perhaps I was wrong, maybe you are more of a Richard Reid than a Osama Bin Laden

 

You can't seriously say that you believe:

- Luck has had NOTHING to do with our situation?

- Fan support has nothing to do with results?

 

... or do you bomber boy?

 

You've really lost it here Alain:smt048:smt048:smt048:rolleyes:

 

You're in the same boat as Professor on this one (and trust me, that's not good company) LMFAO.

 

Mullah's, shoe bombers, inciting others, fcking hell fella you're coming across as right prck on this one. Go and have a lie down and reflect on your posts, as you're not doing yourself any favours on this one.

 

 

 

As for my view on luck, I'm afraid I'm a rationalist:

 

Another view holds that "luck is probability taken personally". A rationalist approach to luck includes the application of the rules of probability, and an avoidance of unscientific beliefs.

 

The rationalist feels the belief in luck is a result of poor reasoning or wishful thinking.

 

To a rationalist, a believer in luck commits the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy, which argues that because two events are connected sequentially, they are connected causally as well:

A happens (luck-attracting event or action) and then B happens;

Therefore, A

caused

B.

In this particular perspective, probability is only affected by confirmed causal connections. A brick falling on a person walking below, therefore, is not a function of that person's luck, but is instead the result of a collection of understood (or explainable) occurrences. Statistically, every person walking near the building was just as likely to have the brick fall on them.

 

The gambler's fallacy and inverse gambler's fallacy both explain some reasoning problems in common beliefs in luck. They involve denying the unpredictability of random events: "I haven't rolled a seven all week, so I'll definitely roll one tonight".

 

Luck is merely an expression noting an extended period of noted outcomes, completely consistent with random walk probability theory. Wishing one "good luck" will not cause such an extended period, but it expresses positive feelings toward the one -- not necessarily wholly undesirable.

[Whitey Grandad]

Guys,

 

You have to accept we are down, grieve accordingly and then just look forward.

It is too panful otherwise.

 

Just accept we have a local derby against Brighton to look forward to.

... and Yeovil & Swindon! And I have never been to Carlisle. Thanks, I feel a bit better now.

[Stu Man Do]

One thing though; this is a damn fine forum for a league 1 club.

 

Our catering and youth team arent bad either apparently!

[Legod Third Coming]

... and Yeovil & Swindon! And I have never been to Carlisle. Thanks, I feel a bit better now.

 

Leeds to see the outlaws too. Carlisle - that's one schlep tho...

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Our catering and youth team arent bad either apparently!

 

Stu, I think you will find we've fallen away significantly in those areas too.